Ask HN: When will the AI bubble burst?
14 points
14 days ago
| 10 comments
| HN
When will the AI bubble burst? What will trigger it? What do we really need LLMs for that humans can't?
_akhe
11 days ago
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I'm convinced those who think LLMs are just hype haven't used them, or don't know how outdated most back office processes are, and don't realize how limited we are in terms of content. I would say the bubble is just barely forming, not about to burst for several more years.

Reasons:

- OpenAI lobbying trying to get open source competition banned

- Apple releasing the M4 with those hardware specs

- Big brands like Adobe finding early success

- Industries are ripe for disruption: Medical, legal, procurement, communications of various kinds especially around documentation, support, summarizing, education, media, art, music, film and other entertainment, I can imagine a lot of disruption.

What would this do to Netflix:

  render a 100-hour Harry Potter film that follows every detail of the books exactly 
Or:

  render a Tom Cruise sci-fi movie starring Sigourney Weaver in her prime and Bruce Willis as the villain 
How could Netflix or even YouTube keep up with scripts that render any video you can imagine? They'll have to offer it too, or go the way of Blockbuster. I imagine record labels and film studios will sue and try to get certain models banned that imitate celebrities or film styles, but people will just illicitly share models with torrents. There's going to be a whole era, I think, because the tech will need to be captured by the big boys but it's not there yet - so part of that is letting the market come up with ideas before they absorb it all then burst the economy.

Our search engines and websites will have LLMs imbued into their functionality, smartphones will have them, kiosks IRL will have them, SaaS will use them to replace representatives and online order forms.

IMO AI models are potentially more disruptive than social media and crypto because it's not just the sharing of content unrestricted, it's the unrestricted creation of content and information itself - giving basically anyone the ability to do it.

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devops000
14 days ago
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After Apple will relase a new iphone with ChatGPT-style integrated. Outside our bubble chat gpt is not much used, but everybody talks about it is the future. So when they are tired repeating "AI is the future"
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roschdal
14 days ago
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When will Apple release an iPhone with a LLM? How will this effect the Apple stock price?
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devops000
14 days ago
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Next sept. Rumors have already pushed stock prices up. They have also announced a buyback.
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frompdx
13 days ago
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  What do we really need LLMs for that humans can't?
I would argue that it's not about whether or not we need something that humans can already do, it's that we don't want a human to do those things because a machine might be able to do it better, faster, cheaper, etc.

A human can operate a lathe, I used to do it, but the CNC lathe I also operated could do any thing I could do much, much faster with just as much accuracy.

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david927
14 days ago
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> When will the AI bubble burst?

This year

> What will trigger it?

World events affecting all markets

> What do we really need LLMs for that humans can't?

LLMs are fantastic and are a huge boon. We'll be using them to our collective advantage for a long time to come. But the AI bubble is more a reflection of capital movement than technological promise.

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roschdal
14 days ago
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Which world events?
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anoy8888
13 days ago
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It will be known as the great US-China war that destroyed 30% of humans .Dozens of countries got dragged into it. .
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david927
14 days ago
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Just a hunch. Things are crazy and getting crazier at an accelerated clip.
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bdangubic
13 days ago
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that would have nothing to do with ai, many “bubbles” will burst under this premise…
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bpiche
12 days ago
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Time to stock up on power armor and Rad-Away. This is how it started.
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talldayo
14 days ago
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The AI venture-capital bubble is destined to burst (eg. Humane and Rabbit are going nowhere) but the incumbents like TSMC and Nvidia are probably going nowhere anytime soon.
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Ekaros
14 days ago
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As companies not going anywhere. Their valuations specially Nvidia could realistically track back a lot. Drop to half seems reasonable, third realistic and almost eight not impossible.

Remember Cisco. Still not above the peak.

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talldayo
13 days ago
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Nvidia's value is inflated today, but an eightfold drop would be a pretty shocking undervaluation. Half maybe, but someone else would have to displace a large amount of the value Nvidia provides. AMD is chronically incapable of building vertically, and Apple has been plugging their ears ignoring the datacenter market for almost a decade now. Until someone finally funds a proper CUDA-killer, I don't think Nvidia is going to feel the hurt. Their hardware has demand, their software has market-fit.
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bpiche
13 days ago
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China invades Taiwan and goes anywhere near the island’s TSMC fabs, you can bet the stock will be affected. They might have fabs in the rest of the world but my impression was it is still a pretty fragile chain
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talldayo
12 days ago
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Well sure, then everyone's goose is cooked. Do you really think Apple is going to rise from the ashes in that scenario and finally use it as an opportunity to replace CUDA?

No, everyone will be in exactly the same doghouse. Nvidia has experience hedging their bets on multiple silicon suppliers, I suspect they are better-prepared for this situation than any other manufacturer.

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bpiche
12 days ago
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Regarding Apple specifically, no, I don't believe they have the fabs to support that scale. Bing chat says Apple themselves manufactures the M2 chip but it must be hallucinating, I strongly doubt they have <5nm manufacturing capability in house. Personally assume that pretty much every <10nm process chip is made by TSMC but I'm not a semiconductor professional and not really qualified for this kind of strategic forecasting. TSMC themselves have tried to diversify manufacturing across the globe but at least in the USA it has been more or less a failure [0]

Maybe Apple will try to rekindle that partership with ARM, or maybe they've diversified enough that they can try to make something with old TSMC fabs in Vietnam, assuming the war doesn't engulf them too, but I didn't think any sub 10nm stuff was being made outside of Taiwan.

The invasion is more or less a certainty in the next few years, though. I am much more sure about that than any prognostications about Apple's response to the invasion

[0] https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/07/tsmc-delays-us-c...

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ChildOfChaos
13 days ago
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AI is not going away.

The bubble might burst though when there are big break throughs by someone like OpenAI or google, as right now money is being thrown at anything with AI in the name, when those startups fail to deliver the bubble will burst and all the spoils will go to a few that actually are able to deliver, making the rest irrelevant.

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romerocarlos
10 days ago
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It is difficult to predict with certainty when or if an “AI bubble” will occur. Some factors to consider would be investment bubble, unrealistic expectations and/or security and reliability issues.
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ldjkfkdsjnv
14 days ago
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There are, and have been, very few real bubbles in human history. AI is not a bubble, its a continuation of a technology trend
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verdverm
14 days ago
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I agree here. There might be a lot of funding going into AI, and there will be high-profile companies that go bust, but both business and non-technical users are paying because they get value.

- consumers using chat & image gen

- devtools buying, and users leveraging, tools like kapa.ai

- RAG definitely provides ROI

- medical imaging & drug discovery

- robotics like Stanford Aloha

- ecosystem for day-2 problems in LLM based systems

The applications are only going to grow

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resource0x
14 days ago
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We will know it was a bubble when it bursts. It might be followed by another AI bubble 20 years down the road. There's no contradiction between "technology trend" and periodic bubbles. Those who lose $$$ along the way may console themselves with thinking about technology trends. :-)
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_akhe
11 days ago
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If you lived in San Francisco in ~2014 there was a definite startup/social media bubble. So many calendar apps. So many email apps. So many ways to "share with friends" that made no money. Millions and millions invested (wasted) lol A lot of us laughed back then and we were ultimately right about it being a funding bubble. But this is just how it works. Something is successful, everyone copies it but is usually not successful - but sometimes there is some success. So they cast a wide net, scoop up what works, leave everything else behind. It's bubbly behavior but that's how the economy "breathes" by expanding and contracting. It ultimately adds growth.

There was also a real estate bubble in the early 00s with their 0-money-down loans, infinite refis, the "good faith estimate" - they were throwing money (houses) at people because middlemen could make a lot of money off selling loans. We all know about the burst, but few talk about the fact that the big banks took over those businesses, forcing them to shut down and acquired all their assets - they scooped up what worked and left everything else behind.

It seems like every presidential cycle there's some industry or space getting all the focus and funding. This current one - Trump/Biden - was the weirdest one, we had a brief crypto bubble, but it's been mostly Old Money paying themselves through government and politics (covid, wars, "keep the government running by printing $1T" type bills). I imagine the next president will "save us" from the political bubble and embrace technology, in particular AI/LLMs. The major corporations have to get a handle on AI, so I predict a lot of money will be thrown at AI/LLMs - we're just getting started. I think we have 8 years of AI bubble ahead of us.

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JSDevOps
13 days ago
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Tuesday it’s always on a Tuesday
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sabrina_ramonov
14 days ago
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The next GPU shortage
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