This led to inventions like safety coffins which allowed people to live until help could arrive.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safety_coffin
Today, we don't need it inventions like that anymore, largely because the embalming process ensures the recently deceased are in fact deceased.
If being burried alive was rare and having a being-burried-alive-safety-bell was rare. A combination would have been rare rare.
I guess rodents could leave scratch marks that would look like nails, too.
We rarely take more than 3-4 days between the death and burial though.
Soap box while I'm here: bodies do NOT need to be embalmed to have a viewing or open casket. If a funeral home is saying it's 'policy' to embalm for a viewing it is 99.9% of the time an internal/company policy and NOT a matter of law. Bodies kept cool without embalming are not stinky, discoloured, or dangerous, or any of the other reasons a funeral home will try to push for embalming. Yes there are exceptions, but they are few and they should all be explained to you in detail and you still have a choice! Prep methods for viewing (to keep eyes and mouth closed) can be done without embalming. You can take the body to a different funeral home at any point, so if you do end up at one refusing a viewing unless they're embalmed you really can go elsewhere. You also don't need a funeral home to have a viewing; you can do it at home as was custom (for ...millenia, I assume) until recently.
I guess I should unlearn that.
At least if the dead person starts thrushing around while you cut them up they stop soon afterwards.
They also got married while standing in their graves. The weddings were a bleak affair, but the funerals were surprisingly romantic.
> “We actually were in the operating room. We had actually opened the patient and were in the process of sort of preparing their organs, at which point the ventilator triggered and so the anesthesiologist at the head of the table spoke up and said, ‘Hey, I think this patient might have just breathed,’” Cannon later told NPR in an interview. “If the patient breathes, that means they’re not brain dead.”
> Nevertheless, a representative from the OPO wanted to proceed anyway, Cannon says. He refused.
> “We were kind of shocked that an OPO person would have so little knowledge about what brain death means that they would say, ‘Oh, you should just go ahead.’ And we thought, ‘No. We’re not going to take any risk that we murder a patient.’ Because that’s what it would be if that patient was alive.”
OPO should be charged with attempted homicide.
That's the line that turned my stomach. I think that's where it really sank in just how not-dead they're talking about here.
The way you reassure them is by investigating every case extensively, punishing adequately those who tried to push through, and fixing the faults of the protocol
I imagine those out there in the field have to think about this a lot more than the rest of us.
Edit: removed link as was tangentially related
The people playing the trolley game are the organ transplant board and the nonprofit in charge of the transplants for the state, which seriously screwed up here and tried to pressure doctors into doing harm.
Do they at least learn the classical version at school and leave the modern one for the professional oath?
The hospital[1] under scrutiny is in fact a 501(c)(3).
[1] https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/610...
"In the operating room, Miller recalled the case coordinator phoning her supervisor at KODA for help once they saw signs of life. The supervisor insisted that the case coordinator needed to “find another doctor to do it,” Miller recalled."
Absurd. The supervisor needs to be charged with attempted murder, and the entire medical system needs to be restructured to change the incentives and accountability mechanisms. That something so clearly murderous can take place in a seemingly mundane manner speaks to healthcare being deeply dysfunctional at a systemic level.
I've seen pretty extreme lack of regard for patients in healthcare systems around the world, though nothing so obvious and cruel as this, so it's not just in the US.
---
> She says she became concerned when TJ appeared to open his eyes and look around as he was being wheeled to the operating room.
> DONNA RHORER: It was like it was his way of letting us know, you know, hey, I'm still here.
> STEIN: But Rhorer and other family members were told that it was just a common reflex.
Looking around is clearly more than a reflex assuming the person is not in a vegetative state. The person should never have been brought to the operating room in the first place.
If such incidents are allowed to slide, the next thing you know would be the willful, intentional, and preplanned murder of alleged overdosing admissions to facilitate organ harvesting.
There’s alive, and there’s living. It’s possibly for someone’s body to be alive even though the person is completely and forever gone.
Not saying that’s what happened here, only that someone appearing to be looking around doesn’t necessarily mean there’s a person inside that body choosing to do so.
Personal source: I saw a beloved family member appear to look around, even while an EEG showed that there was zero activity in the parts of her hurt brain that we’d think of as “her”. It’s terrible to behold. But yes, it can also be just a common reflex.
(I have zero intent to defend the hospital. I’m replying to that 1 specific thing you said, but am absolutely not saying the hospital was in the right.)
Regardless, a vegetative state is never a qualifiable reason for harvesting organs! The person is still alive. At the very least, the person should naturally be allowed to die. If they have family, their permission also matters.
P.S. Ambien (zolpidem) is a well studied drug to help treat a vegetative state. There may also exist other such drugs.
Just, from personal experience, looking around doesn’t have to mean “hey guys, what’s up?” I’d give all the world to make it so.
That’s the kind of thing I’m totally willing to discuss in detail in a more private setting, but that’s about as far as I’ll go here.
Except to add, fuck lupus. Miss ya, sis.
If I’m not coming back, use whatever parts of me can help someone else. But, uh, make sure I’m actually gone first plz thx.
1) developed counties
2) developing counties
3) the USA
It varies state by state but some of the programs are pretty bad, it's no surprise that something like this happened.
If highly-credentialed, national medical nonprofits go to Meta or Google and allege something is "misinformation", is that an automatic "yeah sure, we'll suppress it and limit its reach"?
In the alternative: if they look into it, and realize donors will stop registering if these news articles are widely publicized, would they go ahead anyway and censor true facts, out of utilitarian logic? That would be consistent with the ethics reasoning those corporations have used in the past.
2. Naive utilitarians may think it's ok, because they don't consider second-order effects. If you do consider second-order effects, then even for a utilitarian it could only be ok if the world was already in a terrible, untrusting state where people would rather die than go to a doctor without an armed escort.
As above, you merely wished for it to not come out into the public view. That's what you meant by "didn't happen again". It's exactly what a criminally minded wannabe murderer would say.
Someone, somewhere, will flip a coin, and then depending on your party you'll have to be either pro-murdering-people-for-their-organs, or anti. People will fight online, friendships will be ruined, families torn apart, and at the end of it there will be fewer organs getting donated, and somehow the same amount of donors getting murdered.
That's why I said, if you're making unrealistic wishes anyway, why not wish for something better? In fact, why not wish for gene therapy that makes people regenerate any injured organ, like Wolverine?
And that's how you gain the trust of potential donors; it's the fault of those who didn't do that earlier if the donors numbers were to drop
"Martin says doctors sedated the patient when he woke up and plans to recover his organs proceeded."
It indicates that they tried to continue the organ retrieval even after learning that the patient is alive.
People like to make all these arguments against an organ market, but the truth is that Organ Procurement Organizations get paid for organs. So there is a market. It's just that the person growing the organs is the only one not getting paid.
OPO: Paid
Hospital: Paid
Surgeon: Paid
Guy Whose Organ It Is: Thank you for you sacrifice. We pray for you, blessed soul. Hero of the Nation. I bow my head to you.
But is it good to sell a kidney to pay for a relative’s medical care because insurance doesn’t cover their condition? How about a piece of liver for a house down payment? Or stop complaining about tuition and donate a lung like your cousin did.
I’ve played Cyberpunk. Selling organs is a big step toward a future I’d prefer not to experience.
And that's not the worst that can happen
OPOs are supposed to be non-profit, anyhow?