Perhaps the way to get anti-regulation politicians on board with this is for someone to do what was done to Robert Bork and legally disclose lots of personal info on members of Congress/Parliament, obtained from data brokers and de-anonymized.
Like imagine if China owned CNN and the New York Times and decided what stories they could publish.
It is happening on our local platforms here. Meta, based in the US, is systematically censoring Palestinian content that would otherwise be available here in Canada.
Details:
* https://www.hrw.org/report/2023/12/21/metas-broken-promises/...
* https://theintercept.com/2024/10/21/instagram-israel-palesti...
For a very recent example, one of the few remaining prominent Palestinian journalists, with a following of over 1M on Meta, was banned today:
https://www.aljazeera.com/program/newsfeed/2024/11/7/al-jaze...
Israelis can do whatever they please and kill hundreds of people everyday, they literally destroyed 8 buildings full of people with many children to kill a single Hezbollah leader.
But how can I be surprised when more than a decade ago the same things where happening on US hands towards Iraqis or whatever. Drone kills 200 people in a market? Yeah but an Al Qaeda operative was there buying spices, so worth it.
We became numb to those tragedies. In particular when violence and death is happening by drones and bombs rather than someone pointing their rifle at you, it seems like it makes it less violent when I find it absurdly evil, cold and detached.
I think it has been so long since the Pax-Americana West has dealt with an overtly hostile major power that we’ve collectively lost the concept that there can be real enemies with goals that run explicitly counter to our own.
For example, a vote for anyone is always a vote Israel and Israel's apartheid and wars. Sure, you can disagree with what they're doing there, but isn't it funny that we ALWAYS support them no matter what?
So, no, we can't just decide what we see, consume, or do.
Chinese social media is pretty vibrant with the exception that you can’t agitate for the fall of the government.
As a citizen of a country, as much as I would love to believe in free exchange of information, it's better to limit what enemies are able to broadcast directly to our phones. that's a commons with a lot of tragedies in it.
However, that said, I do agree with your broader point. I'm suspicious of Tik Tok and the Chinese government's intentions and I think banning it was a good move.
They booted TikTok corporate from the country as a threat to national security.
Given how China operates globally and especially in Canada, I’m completely fine with them getting told to beat it
If you're going to cry foul, maybe you shouldn't block the other party in the first place.
Many of the Tiktok generation live in a world where reading for 3 minutes is a heavy effort they are unwilling to do. All information is supposed to be presented in short entertaining video clips.
In China online time for the youth has been strictly regulated years ago. But harming other nations is only in their interest.
The essence is, by denying agency of your country’s users, you deny the whole set of ideas it bases on. If that’s a natural vulnerability of the ideology, addressing it by banning media is a patch over a bleeding wound.
Canadian teens will simply learn about VPN, like they always do in other countries which ban internet resources. Not a single one of them will leave tiktok.
The threat is that it silently engages in manipulation, rather than something like RT or New York Times where the bias is well known ahead of time.
Tiktok's Canada-based offices must have been up to some other form of skulduggery for them to have been shuttered while leaving Canadian use of the platform completely status quo.
[1]https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/09/myanmar-faceb...
Describing them as an enemy might be too far, but you certainly wouldn’t describe China as a friend.
The biggest foreign meddler and spy in Canada is the southern neighbor.
We know for a fact through leaks that US has put all Canadians under mass surveillance both in communication and movement (like the wifi hacking at airports leaked by Snowden) since more than a decade, or the 2023 Pentagon leaks that were quickly scolded as "but they were trying to find Russian activity in Canada", and don't forget the AT&T whistleblower which also exposed mass surveillance on Canadians by US intelligence.
And yet..nobody cares..even though we know for a fact it happens, we don't care let alone call the US an enemy.
We're not "at war" but that doesn't mean much.
If there is a major nation on this planet that has never done anything bad to mine in its history I can think of is China.
I can remember American, British, French troops raping and humiliating that country, I can't remember a single time the opposite happened.
While China does not always play fair and there's plenty of despicable things they do I don't like, I just don't see them as my enemy and see no valid reason to do so.
When the Elkann family (which owns majority stake in Stellantis, Juventus, Ferrari and many others) got pissed off by the largest newspaper in Italy reporting on them (despite their businesses impacting the livelihood of hundreds of thousands of Italians) they simply bought the newspaper and the major critical voice of them disappeared.
Long form content, unrestricted by executives telling people how to run their show, all that makes a big difference. There is no need for corporate bureaucrats to try to run things.
Our local billionaires goals are not in the same category.
Yes, he "avoids" taxes by using every legal strategy available to him, as does every single person who pays taxes. This is called "paying the correct amount of taxes you legally owe".
So, thanks for the charity, but I would rather prefer them to pay that as taxes.
But since Bytedance doesn't dance at NSA's tune, different rules apply.
I've always been terrified to think about how much of my data is out there, but I don't understand enough about how it can be used, and the potential risks.
I’m technically Gen-Z (but just barely) and this is something that really worries me. It’s become increasingly normal in recent times to share absolutely everything online but I’ve got a pretty grim feeling that this isn’t gonna end well. People don’t realize that the AI’s being trained on your data today will act as an internet history that you can never delete.
If everyone is spewing (sorry ... sharing) pics on TikTok, X and co then you won't stand out from the crowd. Unless those pics involve something too controversial.
I have an internet history that stretches back to Compuserve and I've always used my real name, which may or may not have been a good idea. Many years ago I decided not to give myself a silly pseudonym because I thought it would be futile and counter productive.
Cheers
wonky231You’re assuming people are consistent. You may have been photographed doing the same thing as all your peers, the fact that your photo can be highlighted unfavourable is ample ammo for proven lines of character attacks.
People are consistent but the media is not and the audience is far bigger than anyone can imagine. This is the Brave New World. We all know things are changing rather fast. Back in the day, I'd write a letter to someone - yes pen and ink (obviously being modern, I had a cartridge pen). Nowadays I pick up the phone and shout at the little twit who tries to hide behind email. OK we had phones back in the day but a call to say Australia (I'm in the UK) had a 2 second latency and a price in the £ per minute range. I remember the handover of pulse to tone dialing.
Nowadays we have an embarrassing array of communication methods and forums to chat and shout in and be heard all around the world (should anyone care to listen).
Yes you can be picked out and I suggest you be a little careful there but this is the world that we find ourselves within.
I was forced to read 1984 in 1984 when I was a lad. We also had Animal Farm and Brave New World on the reading and discussion list at school that year.
My doorbell looks at you (1)
Cheers
Noddy871
(1) It is on a VLAN that can't see the internet and Home Assistant looks at my doorbellGerdesj? Or Wonky231?
For too long these foreign companies have been "shaping public opinion" - to quote a sibling comment here, who I think accurately sums up at least some of the reasoning behind this kind of development.
In case there's some ambiguity here - I am being sarcastic. I hope Ireland doesn't do that. I have strong issues with some of the above companies, but governments getting involved like this is nothing to be cheered.
ByteDance will keep no data in Canada, will not employ any Canadians, will not report any information to Canadian authorities, and will have no reason to comply with Canadian warrants or court orders. (Or even judgments.) At the same time, all Canadians can continue to use the app.
On balance, this seems bad for Canada and great for ByteDance.
It's hard to balance anything until they explain why they did it. So far they claim they aren't at liberty to share but claim it was bad enough to make a very unprecedented move like this.
TikTok is still going to collect that data, and it will be kept in China, far beyond Canada's reach. To remove concern over the data, I reckon you'd go about it backwards: Get rid of the app, which is up to no good. Keep the offices, so that they can be spied on or forced into transparency via the courts.
Really not saying anything, but that's the line they are going with.
This makes the most sense if Canada expects (or has) Canadian troops secretly deployed somewhere. And that is one sobering thought.
... and Bytedance will not have any recourse if Canada bans the app.
1: Ban presence in the country
2: Add data provision requirements that personal information be stored in the country.
3: TikTok can’t meet requirements? Well that’s on them, guess they can’t operate here.
1. Show the current government is doing something after the CSE said the Canadian government has been breached by China's MSS [0]
2. A response to China for breaching Canada's systems.
3. A way to get a quick win to make bipartisan China hawks across the border in the US happy.
[0] - https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/cse-cyber-threats-china-1.7...
I remember when Trump had Canada re-ratify Nafta that Canada had to waive the right to require Canadian data stay in Canada.
I know Canada signed the agreement but I am not sure if that requirement was ever put in legislation or whether the requirement was universal or just for US-based companies.
This has also been the catalyst behind the ban of TikTok in the US.
No it hasn’t. The war in Gaza is a foreign policy issue, which means most Americans tuned out from the start, and one that was a top issue for a very, very narrow slice of the electorate.
The sad truth is we’re aware of atrocities; we simply aren’t too bothered by them. (If you’re honest about yourself, you aren’t either. Nobody sane could be. There are too many of them, and they’re all burning furiously and it has been this was for a long time.) TikTok is about China, not the Middle East.
They should insist that the data doesn't leave their borders; this is the opposite of a ban. They're insisting on having all their user data leave.
Government being stupid. Imagine that.
Edit
On a second read (it's been a long day) they're closing offices but not banning the app, my comment is worthless. But feel free to check out the genz subreddit and get appalled but what's being said there
As an European those double standards and American exceptionalism (the idea that common laws and rules do not apply to US) will never cease to bother and annoy me.
You do know that Canada is not the US, and most Canadians do not identify or want to be seen as American.
In any case, the solution here is glaringly obvious. If you think that American companies pose a national security threat, or that they serve as unofficial tools of an adversarial government remove them from the country using legal means, just like Canada did.
I am sure that Canadians will totally do this.
I don't think it's a coincidence that this news broke a day after trump's election.
https://therecord.media/canada-20-government-agencies-hacked...
I actually have no idea either.
Second, if the company is as dangerous as they say, they are doing a huge disservice to citizens by withholding that information and handicapping our ability to make an informed choice about using the app.
Pushing their operations out of Canada also reduces their accountability footprint to subsequent lawsuits or legislation.
This is a weird half-measure and I have trouble making sense of it.
Essentially, he's using China to distract from his own policy failings at home.
[1] https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/trudeau-says-he-has-list-of-...
It’s not at all clear that that is even plausible. Also, the CSIS appears to be making very unequivocal statements in support of the policy approach.
Given this latest news about Tik Tok, i'd say it's more than likely, since this is hardly the biggest threat from China, especially if they've compromised members of the government.
You would think it would be an all out 5-alarm fire, and dealt with in the most expedient (and hopefully transparent) way possible. So that the public know they can trust all their government representatives.
> Also, the CSIS appears to be making very unequivocal statements in support of the policy approach.
The government has investigated itself, and found itself innocent, and following a divine path.
A big part of that is how the media is used to push a particular narrative. Every US tech company plays ball with the US government and moves in lockstep with US foreign policy.
The threat of Tiktok (to Western governments) is that allows users to see things that other platforms bury, downrank, outright block or otherwise censor.
A big example of this was the train derailment in East Palestine, OH [2] last year. I reember for at least a week seeing things about the chemical spill, the evacuations and the smoke from the burn (which was visible from space) and I saw absolutely nothing on mainstream media.
You see this in the last year where what's happening on the Middle East manages to get out on Tiktok in a way it really doesn't on IG, Youtube or Facebook [3]. Information simply cannot be tolerated to move as freely as this, hence the scare campaign about Chinese control of Tiktok.
That's why you don't see any effort to, say, have a data protection regime. The goal is to control what you're allowed to see.
[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_Consent
[2]: https://www.wired.com/story/east-palestine-ohio-train-derail...
[3]: https://www.hrw.org/report/2023/12/21/metas-broken-promises/...
However that's not the endgame. I believe the current phase is simply gathering data and creating personal profiles accurate enough to imitate humans. With a bit of progress in AI those imitations will be used to create videos on the fly, tailored to each user. Those videos won't be limited by laws of physics or common sense, and this will give them an impressive insidious power.
Well I guess if they want access to what those tech companies offer, then that is why.
But maybe they don't want access to the benefits of US tech companies. Thats understandable.
Just like I am perfectly fine with us not getting the "benefits" of tiktok.
The problem is solved in my book if there is a decoupling of these tech industries. Personally, I think the US tech industry is better and will provide the most benefits. But if other countries don't want that, thats fine by me as well.
Where is the outrage then?
(Canadian founder in unrelated domain)
Therefore, surprise, surprise, Trudeau censors it now the day after the US election.
In May of this year, the Canadian government ordered two drone detection companies (Pegauni and Bluvec) to shut down using almost the exact same wording.
For comparison (this is actually quite interesting), here is the ByteDance release:
https://www.canada.ca/en/innovation-science-economic-develop...
And here is the Bluvec/Pegauni release:
https://www.canada.ca/en/innovation-science-economic-develop...
So, there’s no censorship but the releases are extremely similar to drone detection companies.
so then, under this premise, what changes things? a vote in congress