Moderators Delete Reddit Thread as Doctors Torch Dead UnitedHealthcare CEO
69 points
20 days ago
| 10 comments
| thedailybeast.com
| HN
lawlessone
20 days ago
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United Health deleted all comments and disallowed commenting under their LinkedIn post mourning his death. Because it was full of people talking about their personal experiences of having their claims denied.
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hilux
20 days ago
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Focusing on peoples' insensitivity allows the company to distract from the bigger point: why do so many people feel this way? Bro was also in trouble for alleged insider trading.
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quantified
20 days ago
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Elsewhere in today's headlines: Anthem Blue Cross limiting anaesthesia. Surgery takes too long? Take the pain.

And a for-profit insurer expects sympathy? UHC stock is up 7% on the year, so yay them.

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jsheard
20 days ago
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Anthem just walked that back. Probably not out of the goodness of their hearts, but because their execs saw the public sharpening their guillotines and got cold feet.
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y33t
20 days ago
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The real story with this assassination is how broadly popular it is across political, race, sex and even class lines, and how the MSM is completely ignoring that angle.
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aithrowawaycomm
20 days ago
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netsharc
20 days ago
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It feels like living through the 2019 Joker movie, everyone's lost a sense of what's decent and what's not. At the risk of derailing the conversation, people are even arguing whether dropping bombs on women and children is humane or not, and far too many are finding excuses to say it's fine.

Meanwhile the assassin needs a name.. the Midtown Hilton Shooter? The 3D Killer? (since there were 3 bullets found with D-words written on them).

Don't be greedy, or The 3D-Killer will go after you next!

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justinclift
20 days ago
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How about something like the "Denied Claim Hero"?

Wouldn't positive wording be more appropriate given the public response?

> Don't be greedy, or The 3D-Killer will go after you next!

It'd feed into wording something like "Might need to re-think automatically denying that claim, as the Denied Claim Hero is still at large".

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squigz
20 days ago
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> Wouldn't positive wording be more appropriate given the public response?

Encouraging murder is generally frowned upon.

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justinclift
20 days ago
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Agreed. The favourable public response to the news is rather unusual.
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squigz
20 days ago
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Well I'm not saying I necessarily agree with it, but it begs the question of whether 'celebrating' (or, perhaps, simply not mourning) the death of some individuals is actually wrong? This would be different than encouraging/celebrating the murder itself.

I also think it bears consideration what 'public response' means here. Obviously I am just one person, but nobody I know (personally, or in the communities I'm in) has celebrated this in any capacity, let alone applauded the murderer. Are we basing public perception mostly on social media comments, which are a selective representation of public opinion at best, and blatantly fraudulent at worst?

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netsharc
20 days ago
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I wonder how most of the world reacted to the news of the death of the leader of Hamas... or how they'd react to the news of Putin's death. Etc, etc.

BTW thinking the comments of people outside of your bubble to be fraudulent seems... elitist.

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squigz
20 days ago
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> BTW thinking the comments of people outside of your bubble to be fraudulent seems... elitist.

Well I didn't say that, and I even noted that I recognize my bias in the matter, but ignoring the widespread use of bots to shape narratives online for various purposes and taking social media comments at face value to indicate actual public perception in 2024 seems... naive.

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stonogo
20 days ago
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When your business is cost control on human life, it's not surprising that decency goes out the door.

Also the media seem to have settled on "Citi Bike Assassin."

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kamaal
20 days ago
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>>When your business is cost control on human life, it's not surprising that decency goes out the door.

Bingo!

Not sure why many people are missing this point. Beneath all this. The healthcare industry, doctors, pharma companies and all connected infrastructure has a simple equation. Their profits co-relate directly with human suffering. That is, the more you suffer, the more they get rich. And for some people in the chain, their very survival, like making a living depends on this.

You can't have a decent, even bearable conversation when somebody begins an argument on this premise. Notice how you refusing to suffer might appear indecent to them. I have known some doctors get angry on patients here in India for asking questions on alternate lines of treatments. Sometimes they have commissions from insurance, diagnostics and even suppliers, and they find it unfair that the patients think about their own good and not about the doctors. So you mean to say you are not willing to suffer to help me make money? So cruel of you!

There are lots of industries like these. Weapons manufacturing and Armed forces is another one. Im sure the thought of absence of wars, and some long term peace would be deeply disturbing to people in that ecosystem.

Notice how this is different compared to something like hospitality business, where profits co-relate directly with customer joy and inversely with customer dissatisfaction.

The real issue with the health care industry is their profits lie in hurting people, not helping them.

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andrewinardeer
19 days ago
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A Citi Bike was killed?
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Qem
20 days ago
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> Meanwhile the assassin needs a name.. the Midtown Hilton Shooter? The 3D Killer?

Sickario.

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amyames
20 days ago
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I’m partial to the Claim Avenger
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nataliste
19 days ago
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>Meanwhile the assassin needs a name.. the Midtown Hilton Shooter? The 3D Killer?

I'm partial to the Chief Executive Offerer.

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netsharc
18 days ago
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Offerer sounds more like one who offers something.

How about "Chief Officer Executor"?

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aithrowawaycomm
20 days ago
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I am reminded of the right-wing cop in Oregon who burned a ballot box and added some "free Gaza" vandalism. Specifically, this is a compelling argument that the shooter likely wasn't an outside vigilante:

  The thing that struck me was the fact that [the shooter] knew where [Thompson] was going to be and when he was going to be there. Generally, you get that information by observing the individual. You find their schedule and their routine, and then you intercept them somewhere along the line on their routine. This was obviously not a routine setting. So he had to have some reason to believe that Thompson was going to be coming out of that door at an approximate time to be able to lay in wait. Because it’s Manhattan, standing around waiting risks the likelihood of being challenged by a cop or security guard coming by, which suggests that he had reason to know when the guy was going to be coming out. It suggests some sort of inside information.
Via https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2024/12/unitedhealthcare...
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FireBeyond
20 days ago
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There must have been, but also - Thompson was in town for the Investor Conference at a hotel nearby. I'm sure UHC had hotel rooms blocked for it. Call hotels nearby, and look has no rooms available for the duration of the conference, as a starting point (if I recall correctly, people on Reddit used it to call BS on a last minute music concert/festival cancellation in Vegas. "We've just found out about this today", "So why did you release the block of rooms you were holding at the hotel last week?").
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aithrowawaycomm
20 days ago
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The salient point is that the shooter was hanging around early in the morning, and he probably didn’t loiter for too long because that would have drawn attention. It suggests he knew Thompson would be leaving the hotel around 6:30am, and it’s difficult to see how an outsider could have obtained that info.
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FireBeyond
20 days ago
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Someone loitering on the street? In NYC? It's questionable how much attention that would draw.

Also, and not saying this in this case: "Annual Investor Conference Day 1 Agenda, 8am Open Breakfast". Not hard to believe someone would be leaving their hotel nearby at 6.30, 7 for that. It's not staking the place out for hours.

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aithrowawaycomm
19 days ago
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It would be an awfully big coincidence:

  Apparently knowing which door Mr. Thompson planned to use, the shooter arrived outside the hotel about 10 minutes before his intended target and ignored passers-by as he lay in wait.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/06/nyregion/unitedhealthcare...
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justinclift
19 days ago
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> ... the shooter arrived outside the hotel about 10 minutes before his intended target and ignored passers-by as he lay in wait.

Waiting for the right person is very far from a co-incidence. ;)

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justinclift
20 days ago
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Yeah. Depending upon the level of prior research by the shooter, the CEO may have shown a reliable pattern before hand attending other conferences too.
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edavison1
20 days ago
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Analemma_
20 days ago
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I'm not exaggerating for hyperbole: literally every single time I've ever seen a comment online of the form "why isn't the MSM talking about X", I've clicked over to the homepage of the New York Times and seen X right there.
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edavison1
20 days ago
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Yeah it's unfortunate that we're in this place culturally but seems like just using the phrase suggests a lack of engagement with it so I guess it makes sense in some wacky way.
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araes
20 days ago
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Archive.is version NYTimes story for paywall [1]

[1] https://archive.is/DiRbs

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bdangubic
20 days ago
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that is most definitely nowhere near the "real story" - it is not even in the top-1000 of the "real story" not just because it is not true but because it is not a story :)
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themaninthedark
20 days ago
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I would like to take a second to say, it is horrible for anyone to lose their life and a terrible tragedy for their family, especially around the holidays.

That being said, I think that both the assassination and the public's reaction to it show very well the shift that we have had regarding business leaders in the US. In prior times, these people were often pillars of community and something like this would be unthinkable instead of celebrated.

Edit add: Reddit's actions don't surprise me in the least as they want to appear advertiser friendly.

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FireBeyond
20 days ago
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What I -am- curious to see is how NYPD's response and resources in response to this compares to the average homicide in NYC.
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justinclift
20 days ago
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Also curious how many businesses in that area had problems with their CCTV cameras around that time?

"Sorry officer, it looks like the camera wasn't recording" type of thing.

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fred_is_fred
20 days ago
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It would be naive to think that it will be the same. This one has too much media attention.
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themaninthedark
20 days ago
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I am sure the response and resources will be exactly the same, and if he is caught the DA will file the same charges with the same recommendations and the Judge will apply the same standards.

Just like the man who attacked Paul Pelosi in San Fransisco had the same standards applied to him. I am glad that the state of CA is so strict on crime that a first time offender(who has mental health issues) convicted of burglary, false imprisonment, threatening a family member of a public official, kidnapping, and threatening a witness is given life in prison.

Or the police response when someone is pushed and their cellphone is stolen. >Boxer, 80, was assaulted in the Jack London Square neighborhood. "The assailant pushed her in the back, stole her cell phone and jumped in a waiting car. She is thankful that she was not seriously injured,"

>I am working on the pier in Alameda right across the channel. There were a ton of police cars and a chopper there and I was wondering what the commotion was. https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/oscbxf/comment/h6nmek...

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more_corn
20 days ago
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Speculation regarding the motive might actually be correct: “ Law enforcement officials found the words “deny,” “defend” and “depose” on shell casings recovered from the crime scene”
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wmeredith
20 days ago
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That's absolutely remarkable. Source?

EDIT: I see it's in the source article for this post. Thanks.

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kristianp
20 days ago
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Reddit is too easily censored by biased community moderators. Instead of a flagging model, comments and threads can be completely removed, with no evidence of their having existed.
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tim333
20 days ago
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The thread discussed in the article seems to be up and open: https://www.reddit.com/r/medicine/comments/1h6h3hh/unitedhea...
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emilamlom
19 days ago
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HN seems to be doing it too (though they're just hidden, not deleted). None of the UHC posts are on the frontpage and I checked all the way to 200 posts down. I had to google just to find this one.
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squigz
20 days ago
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Why should community moderators not be able to determine what is or isn't allowed in their communities?
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lmm
20 days ago
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They should be allowed to, but their decisions should be public. Currently Reddit moderators are able to arbitrarily and secretly remove posts and comments, even when doing so goes directly against the stated goals and published rules of their community.
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yatopifo
20 days ago
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They should. However, they should not be allowed to misrepresent their rules. I know a few subreddits that claim to be unbiased (to attract subscribers) but engage in highly selective moderation. While it’s ok to do so, such subreddits should be forced to explicitly declare their leanings and moderation policies in the description.
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squigz
20 days ago
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This is probably easier said than done, for at least a couple reasons:

a) How do you determine which subreddits need to disclose that information?

b) How do you put something as abstract as what warrants moderation in a community into a simple description? Codes of Conduct can help with this, but as I'm sure others will inevitably point out, those can be abused by poor moderators as well.

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lmm
20 days ago
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Having a public mod action log (like the one on lobste.rs) for all subreddits would go a long way.
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squigz
20 days ago
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Depending on the context of the community, such things can actually do more harm than good - many users react negatively to any display of authority, no matter how reasonable it is. I don't think community managers should have to subject themselves to the questioning of users who don't have anything better to do, if they don't feel like it adds to their community.

Of course, this does work in some places - Wikipedia is extremely transparent about its moderation actions and policies - but I don't think it should be the default for every single community.

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lmm
20 days ago
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I mean if the mods want to run their subreddit as a dictatorship that's allowed, and having a public log wouldn't stop that. It just means that you can't pretend you're not intervening if you are.
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squigz
20 days ago
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The vast, vast majority of communities, on reddit and otherwise, are "dictatorships"
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lmm
20 days ago
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Yes and no. Like, is there a guy who decides who to kick out of the intramural softball league? Probably yes. But people will see that it's happened and talk about it, and if it was unreasonable then at some point they'll have a word with the guy, and maybe oust him or start their own splinter league or what have you. All of which is sort of possible on reddit up to a point, but those mechanisms are much less functional because the only community interaction is the subreddit itself where the moderator can just silently remove any posts they don't like.
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add-sub-mul-div
20 days ago
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It could go either way. If the purpose of the community is to benefit the moderators, they should have more control to censor. If the purpose of the community is to benefit the users, they should have more freedom in what they're allowed to say.
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squigz
20 days ago
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This is a rather 1-dimensional view on community moderation.

The purpose of a community is (generally speaking) to provide a place for people to engage and interact with each other, not to 'benefit' any one particular group of people. Users should have the freedom to discuss what they want, yes - within reason, as long as it doesn't jeopardize the core goal of the community. Moderators need to use their best judgement and knowledge of the community to determine what meets that criteria.

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Teever
20 days ago
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The problem isn't just the moderators, it's the administration and rules of Reddit itself.

Reddit has a rule about not celebrating the death of someone, which they very selectively enforce.

They allow people to cheer the death of the likes of Adolf Hitler or Muammar_Gaddafi and some random soldier in the Ukraine-Russia war, but they're quite picky about other stuff.

I'm sure they'd clamp down more on this one if they could but the people have spoken and there are simply too many people celebrating this death.

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devvvvvvv
20 days ago
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You know flagging automatically kills (marks as dead) posts/comments here when enough are added right? Even worse. Imagine a bunch of redditors with a downvote that deletes posts and you have HN.
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ChrisArchitect
20 days ago
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Related:

Americans React to UnitedHealthcare CEO's Murder: 'My Empathy Is Out of Network'

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42327272

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moomin
20 days ago
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What we’re seeing here is a huge disconnect between regular human morality and our legal system. Most people regarded him as a mass murderer, but the cops would not act, so a vigilante stepped in.
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justinclift
19 days ago
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On a related note, has anyone read Cory Doctorow's book Radicalized?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radicalized_(Doctorow_book)

It's a collection of 4 novellas, one of which is about:

  A man becomes embroiled in a dark web network targeting insurance
  companies after his wife's cancer coverage was declined by their
  health insurer.
Sounds pretty on point, in a "life imitating fiction" kind of way.
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emilamlom
19 days ago
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Interestingly, I can't find any of the threads about the UHC CEO on the HN frontpage either. I've gone back 200 posts (around 3-4 days old) and only one loosely related post up. I had to google with "site:ycombinator.com" to find anything.
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