This obviously impacts every business which deals with other businesses. Access to the PEPPOL network is not free. Direct access is nearly impossible (it is expensive and requires technical audits). A variety of third parties are popping up to mediate access. They all seem complex and expensive. Not only will you have to use the network to send your invoices, you will also have to receive them somehow. If you're a small business, this could get pretty complicated pretty quickly.
I'm assuming we have some EU business owners/freelancers/entrepreneurs on HN. How are you preparing for this (apparently inevitable) future of PEPPOL?
[1] https://finance.belgium.be/en/enterprises/vat/e-invoicing/ma...
The gov't in Norway has mandated use of EHF for billing the gov't for about a decade now, which really drove adoption. Our customers has to have an agreement with one of the access points[3], so the cost of sending the EHF goes directly to the customer.
Adding support wasn't terribly hard, but it wasn't trivial either. The XML is fairly straight forward, but when you submit one the access point doesn't just do a schema verification, it also verifies that intermediate values are calculated and rounded correctly for example.
[1]: https://anskaffelser.dev/postaward/g3/spec/current/billing-3...
[2]: https://peppol.org/learn-more/country-profiles/norway/
[3]: https://anskaffelser.no/verktoy/veiledere/aksesspunkter-ehf-...
Outside that Wikipedia entry, I have also heard nothing about it becoming required in Germany (we are mainly B2C, but do some B2B and B2G), here we are instead moving forward with X-Rechnung/ZUGFeRD/Factur-X, which is an XML standard that can also be embedded in PDFs, and doesn’t require certification or anything.
> The new required fields were added as part of the harmonisation between Peppol BIS Billing and the XRechnung standard. Peppol BIS Billing is the equivalent of XRechnung for sending e-invoices via Peppol. By harmonising the XRechnung standard and incorporating it into the Peppol “National Ruleset”, the two formats (XRechnung and Peppol BIS Billing) are now almost fully equivalent.
It seems that this ends up the same way and compatible with the solution in Germany and France, and doesn’t have any of the issues OP describes.
[0]: https://en.e-rechnung-bund.de/new-version-xrechnung-standard...
I’m assuming all bookkeeping software will integrate it, just as all suppliers are able to send PDF invoices.
For the ones sending invoices manually, like OP, maybe software with free tiers will pop up. Just like many suppliers have free tiers for sending PDF invoices.
>Access to the PEPPOL network is not free. Direct access is nearly impossible (it is expensive and requires technical audits). A variety of third parties are popping up to mediate access. They all seem complex and expensive.
So what you're saying is that a certain group of companies ("third parties") successfully lobbied your government(s) to mandate an artificial monopoly on a practical necessity for ostensibly honorable and convenient reasons, and everyone will pay up for this divine virtue.
I'm sorry if this comes off as dismissive, but as an American who deals in this sort of officework as part of $dayjob you guys need to vote in better politicians.
Gone are the error-prone days of manually copying account numbers, invoice reference codes and amounts from PDFs and paper mail, and scanning those invoices for book keeping.
The standards for e-invoicing are open but it's true that you need to hire a trusted intermediary to process your messages. Anyone can become a processor so it's not a closed system but I bet there's some auditting required before you get a license - which makes sense.
Overall changes like these initially mean some expenses to businesses but once the system is up and working as intended it reduces lots of mandatory pencil pushing type work, bringing savings throughout the economy to all companies.
That's my only negative point about this whole system is that money is being pulled away from freelancers and small SME's for every invoice they send.
The big guys just setup an access point and pay the yearly fee as it is nothing compared to their revenue.
Unless you have a very small company you already probably have an accountant or bookkeeper. In most situations, the e-invoicing is provided by your accountant as part of their comprehensive financial management solution. I pay about 120€/mo. for a solution that includes bookkeeping, electronic and traditional invoicing, electronic and traditional expenses management, salary/payroll and all tax declarations for my 1-person company. The effort saved/cost ratio is bonkers, and in the grand scheme of things the monthly fee is marginal.
There might be indeed a usecase for SMEs that don't want to buy a comprehensive financial management solution and instead want to send their e-invoices manually. It's probably a pretty niche usecase and someone could probably provide a "proxy" processor for something like 100€/year. It's still a very marginal cost for almost any imaginable going concern. And to receive any money you anyway need a bank account, which is not free for companies.
> That's my only negative point about this whole system is that money is being pulled away from freelancers and small SME's for every invoice they send.
I don't pay anything to send or receive e-invoices on top of my monthly plan. But I do pay a very small fee to my bank for each transaction they process.
I'm sure that direct (as in having your own AS number, IP blocks and peering arrangements) access to the internet is even more expensive, not to mention things like your own electricity or your own cellphone network.
Somehow, people aren't complaining that your average bootstrapped SaaS can't become its own ISP.
As long as any reasonably-sized company can become a provider, and as long as the government isn't demanding something outrageous, like the provider having to pay an 'interchange fee' for every invoice send through the network, economies of scale will come in and drive costs down.
Will it, though? From the sound of it this is a singular system with no competitors and required for any commercial activity, so there's no downward pressure there. As for the intermediaries, there will probably be competition between them but history doesn't bode well (see: Quickbooks, et al.).
Any provider can be paying 2k per year to operate, but can service millions of invoicing entities so the cost per-invoice can be effectively very low.
With all invoices going through government computers, only VAT that has actually been paid can be claimed back.
The easier solution would of course be to get rid of VAT, and increase income tax instead. But then people earning barely enough will suddenly notice how much the are paying. VAT nicely hides that fact.
Wanna tell me how you file taxes?
The company? A CPA does it as far as I know, but filing everything ourselves is certainly an option.
We have this nifty description:
Peppol is a global network that simplifies electronic document exchange, like invoices and purchase orders. It uses a standardized format to automate invoicing and procurement processes.
The network operates on a four-corner model involving senders, service providers, and receivers, ensuring seamless communication. By partnering with a certified Peppol Access Point (some has been mentioned, e.g., Maventa is another), you can tap into this network with ease and broaden your global reach. It’s a valid solution when you can’t set resources aside for this.
So, the options are: [1]: If you’re a software provider, partner with a Peppol-certified provider [2]: If you’re a business, you may already have access if using particular ERP or invoicing software. Ask them!
At least Maventa offers global invoice access without extra charges. Integration and user registration are free; fees apply based on Peppol usage only.
AMA
Here in France there's a similar system, I just require a certain tier to accept payments through it.
A couple of my clients didn’t see the invoice in my monthly email, so they asked me to resend it. I re-sent the PDF manually.
To address OP’s question: I don’t expect it will change much for me. The customer configuration will let me choose whether the invoice is sent by email or another way, and I’ll still create my invoice by clicking “book and send” in e-conomic.
My current invoicing system is a simple tool that generates PDFs. I send those to my customers by email (and rarely an angry reminder by post), and I get paid. Good stuff. My suppliers similarly send me PDFs by mail, and some of them send me paper invoices by post. All very simple. I pay them every month, and once every quarter I send those on to my accountant so he can do his thing.
All this sending and receiving has been free so far. But with PEPPOL, I'll suddenly need some third party tool with some kind of paid subscription, to continue to do what I had been doing for free before.
Even if you "share" a certificate with others, this seems like an unwanted income tax for freelancers or businesses.
1,800 euro annual fee for freelancers:
Most businesses will use a accounting system anyway, and most of those will support Peppol out-of-the-box. So instead (or in addition) to sending an e-mail, the invoice will be sent directly into their accounting system (and their bank, if they choose).
Really, it simplifies things a lot! No more punching/copying of stuff from PDFs into your online bank. The cost is not really high, just a bit annoying (typically some euros a month + a few euros pr invoice).
(I probably could have found a cheaper provider but I don't send many invoices so it is ok).
Can you share what the cost is? This [0] provider says each invoice costs $10-30. NET14 means you'd pay $260 - $780/yr!
https://www.valtatech.com/thought-leadership/einvoicing/how-...
I pay approx €80 a month for a complete accounting/payment system, including Peppol-access, payrolls, expenses etc etc .
I actually think Peppol-invoices are free. I just choose that instead of e-mail (assuming my customer is an official company).
It is automatically transferring the invoice-data to my bank which is expensive (and that too I can fix by changing bank...)
So, all in all, Peppol is a good thing. Making it mandatory is perhaps a bit over the top, but hey.
Imagine if you're a full time worker (like a freelancer!) and you have to pay a transaction tax to get your wages.
It’s also not a tax, as there is no entrenched monopoly that collects is. If anything, something like AWS or for my sensibilities azure is more outrageous.
Can Freelancers choose to another service (like email) instead of PEPPOL? According to the post, this service is the monopoly service provider per-law.
In the USA, a client can send me money for free via ACH or as a check (which are mostly free depending on your bank and account level).
Nobody stops you from running something similar to letsencrypt but for this PEPPOL thingy if you don't want to pay for invoicing software as service.
I for once, spent 10 years of my life maintaining an opensource library so people can cryptographically sign tax documents for Ukrainian government, including e-receipts on point of sale terminals.
The EU is becoming very regulated when it comes to sending / receiving invoices. Basic invoicing tools that offer PDF are not sufficient anymore.
You could say I'll run my own peppol access point but the economics of doing so for a single person doesn't make sense. You're looking at a basic yearly fee of 2000 euros just for the peppol membership and on top of that you need to get certified by third parties looking at another couple of thousands euros just to be able to send and receive some invoices.
My best advice is to search for an affordable tool that takes away this complexity away for you. I know that previously you could send for free, but that's going to end if you like it or not.
I run my SaaS at https://www.bizzey.com which is a business tool that you can fully customize and peppol sending and receiving is supported (it's also completely "free" in a sense that you just pay the subscription and nothing on top)
The opposite casing is just funny to me.
https://ec.europa.eu/digital-building-blocks/sites/display/D...
https://ec.europa.eu/digital-building-blocks/sites/display/D...
Ah now I see that in the fact sheet for every country they write if the legislation also introduces a B2B mandate.
https://ec.europa.eu/digital-building-blocks/sites/display/D...
So currently there are B2B mandates (some in the future) for: Belgium, Germany, France, Italy, Poland(?) and Romania.
It's really nice though. I can set invoices to be paid automatically when they're under n€ and don't have to do anything to keep up with all of my payments.
Having moved over to the continent last year though, I am now having to deal with an enormous flood of paper.
Frankly if you are a business, having to pay a per year fee plus extra per invoice just so it all can be standardised and reduce the paper flood shouldn't be an issue, as long as the fees are not too great.
I'm not an invoice-using resident there so I don't know for sure, sorry.
Edit: quick googling found a few services that allow you to do electronic invoicing (peppol included) for €30/year.
The only problem I see is certification requirements instead of just opened an API to where you can beam your signed xml blobs.
https://www.softwarepakketten.nl/bericht/7925&bronw=1/Factsh...
Additional revenue for access plus data who paid who for what, perfect set up for communist EU.
As european living outside of that happy garden, eeally hope it will collapse soon and countries in it will gain real independence.
I didn't expect much from my fellow europeans, brainwashed by brussels propaganda from every corner. They succumb to communist policies while are being robbed outright, and whats most disgusting, they contemplate and support it voluntarily.
> I'd suggest reading Spinelli's manifesto,
thank you - quite a read indeed. I can just contribute to your suggestion by adding Unabomber manifesto as it is relatable to what happen in EU as well.