In praise of grobi for auto-configuring X11 monitors
75 points
3 months ago
| 5 comments
| michael.stapelberg.ch
| HN
snthd
3 months ago
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>the monitor draws 30W even in standby

That's absurd. There are regulations on standby power.

https://dl.dell.com/manuals/all-products/esuprt_electronics_...

>Power Consumption

>0.2 W (Off Mode)

>0.3 W (Standby Mode)

Doesn't seem to be an isolated case:

https://www.dell.com/community/en/conversations/monitors/up3...

>UP3216Q, drawing 23 watts in Standby? (2019).

I guess a takeaway from OP is to measure your actual standby power draw.

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arghwhat
3 months ago
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So the solution is to complain and get a replacement unit it seems.
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snthd
3 months ago
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out-of-ideas
3 months ago
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i hope more overlapping regulations than what energy star covered
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bobmcnamara
3 months ago
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Energy star is going away.
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fn-mote
3 months ago
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Author doesn’t even compare it to a second solution.

Interesting to know, but I just use a hot key to attempt reconfiguration if something goes wrong. Works for me even if it’s not a sign Linux is ready for non-technical users.

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secure
3 months ago
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Yes, I didn’t want to analyze and compare different solutions, I just wanted to share the joy of finding a solution that works well for me.

Using hot keys is nice, but hot keys (intentionally) don’t work while my screen is locked. I contemplated mapping an xrandr call onto a smart button (Shelly Button 1, essentially triggering an HTTP request), but in the end grobi has the same effect and is even more convenient than having to press buttons.

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wokkel
3 months ago
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My windows laptop disconnects my monitor sometimes seemingly randomly. A sign that windows is not ready for non-technical users?
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hulitu
3 months ago
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> A sign that windows is not ready for non-technical users?

No, just normal Microsoft prioritizing features over fixing bugs. I have a "shit_win_bugs" bookmarks folder which is growing in size every 1-2 months.

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JCattheATM
3 months ago
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Hardly, given the mountain of evidence to the contrary.
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conception
3 months ago
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You’ve never had to support windows non-technical end users I see.
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JCattheATM
3 months ago
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That's a silly assumption, and a silly point. By that reasoning, no OS is suitable for non technical users.
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aaplok
3 months ago
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> By that reasoning, no OS is suitable for non technical users.

That was the point GP was trying to make (a bit snarkily and sarcastically) in response to the argument that Linux is not suitable for nontechnical users.

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JCattheATM
3 months ago
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Right, but GP is dead wrong. Windows and MacOS are far more suitable for non technical users on average. Mint is great for people that have standard hardware and need nothing more than a browser, but it's still not on par with the big two.
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aaplok
3 months ago
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That Linux is less accessible than windows or MacOS may be true (I personally agree with you about windows, less so about macOS), but if an argument is not acceptable about windows, it can't be accepted about Linux either. If both OSs seem to suffer from difficult-to-fix issues when turning monitors on and off, that can't be the reason why Windows is more non-tech friendly.

I think that this is the bulk of the argument here.

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JCattheATM
3 months ago
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> but if an argument is not acceptable about windows, it can't be accepted about Linux either. I

I think it can, because even if there is an issue on Windows, it's likely still going to be much easier to resolve than on Linux, e.g. no editing files, no command prompt, etc.

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justinrubek
3 months ago
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I can't really agree with that on windows. When I've had to use it, I've always had gnarly issues that I don't think I'd be able to deal with if I wasn't knowledgeable about computers. Sometimes, even then, basic functionality just doesn't work at all. It's further complicated by the software not giving proper insight into what is going wrong so as to make it impossible to deal with.
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JCattheATM
3 months ago
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It can have issues, sure, but there is a reason it's on 90% of computers and has been for 30 years or so - it's still easier than most of the competition.
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hulitu
3 months ago
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> there is a reason it's on 90% of computers and has been for 30 years or so

yes, bribery and lobby. Remember where Gates went to Munich to "convince" the city council that Microsoft Windows is better than Limux ?

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JCattheATM
3 months ago
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No, it's because it actually is easier and more intuitive.

Linux is out of the running entirely except for people that need nothing more than a browser and media player.

MacOS has a kooky paradigm that people get used to, but isn't as intuitive as the classic launcher menu and task bar approach.

Windows had a ton of issues, and not particularly user friendly error messages for a while, but since XP it's been the leader in usability.

Of course with 11 they are really doing all they can to throw all that away...

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conception
3 months ago
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No one up to iOS v14 or so ever asked me for help on using it or really fixing it. MacOS passed the grandma test for me and generally requires less user support. But iOS under jobs was a gold standard in usability.
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JCattheATM
3 months ago
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I've found non tech users find MacOS far less intuitive honestly. I do think the Windows paradigm is probably the most intuitive, with a startbar launcher and apps being clearly separated in the taskbar and not grouped together under a bouncing icon.
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arghwhat
3 months ago
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> Does grobi work on Wayland?

See kanshi, which has a similar rule matching approach.

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modzu
3 months ago
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im sensitive to coil whine and i hear it everywhere : computers, light bulbs, phone chargers, you name it and if im in the same room as electronics i hear a high pitched squealing that others seem not to notice or care about. its inescapable and it sucks
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bobmcnamara
3 months ago
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I used to be. One high speed camera I could tell the frame rate consistency from the flash recharge whine.

But one day a young engineer asked if I could hear my circuit when the load changed.

I could not. I have become what I hated. The cycle continues.

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raverbashing
3 months ago
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So once again you need to DYI your monitor configuration for Linux that for some reason works out-of-the-box pretty much in Windows and MacOSX

sigh

And that's for X11, which was built in a 70s model while Wayland leisurely moves forward

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fsh
3 months ago
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Both Gnome and KDE handle (un-)plugging external monitors just fine. And Wayland has been the standard in all relevant desktop distributions for a couple of years now.
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secure
3 months ago
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The Dell UP3218K monitor I describe does not work “out of the box” on any OS. Even finding a GPU that can drive it at all is tricky.
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p_l
3 months ago
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It should work with tiled output, so long as a) it reports tiled geometry in DisplayID b) the driver handles it right.

Then it should show up as single display.

It's also how Apple XDR display presents itself to MacOS (two DisplayPort 1.4 tunnels over USB4, tiled layout in DisplayID).

I suspect it's possible that it doesn't have a valid tiled geometry block, but that's something that was already handled right when first 4k displays landed, so...

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ikurei
3 months ago
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I use both Linux and Mac, and in my experience Mac's handling of multi-monitor setups and, specially, of them changing, is only slightly better than Linux's.

For most situations you do not need to do anything difficult to plug any number of monitors to a Linux computer with a modern, full-featured distro, other than arranging them. Mac does a better job of remembering your setup and adapting to a monitor disappearing, but it's not that much better.

I'm still not sure I understand why the author needed this tool, may be because they have more than one computer plugged into the same monitor?

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sprash
3 months ago
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> while Wayland leisurely moves forward

Debateable. But it sure started with huge step backwards. On X11 all relevant functions are at least standardized within the xrandr protocol. On Wayland you don't even have that. So it really depends on the compositor if it works or not where each is doing its own thing which is just crazy. I prefer the 70s standardization model of "mechanism, not policy".

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hulitu
3 months ago
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> for some reason works out-of-the-box pretty much in Windows

mostly. With first releases of Win 10, it was more than challenging.

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ryao
3 months ago
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X11 was made in September 1987, long after the 70s. All of the older ways of doing graphics were killed by it due to technical merit.
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raverbashing
3 months ago
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Thanks I didn't realize it was so new

> older ways of doing graphics were killed by it due to technical merit.

The issue here is that a server/client architecture complicates things a lot when it's all the same machine and the security model is different

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