T-Mobile claimed selling location data without consent is legal–judges disagree
129 points
2 hours ago
| 6 comments
| arstechnica.com
| HN
aeon_ai
1 hour ago
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Opt-out links by carrier:

ATT - https://www.att.com/consent/ccpa/dnsatt

T-Mobile: https://www.t-mobile.com/privacy-center --Access the Privacy Dashboard

Adjust the following privacy settings (toggle off as desired), per line/account: - Profiling and automated decisions (on by default) - Fraud and identity theft protection (shares account and usage info) - Sharing certain financial information (payment history, balances, etc.) - Analytics and reporting, Advertising options, and Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information

Verizon - Go to your MyVerizon Navigate to Account > Account Settings > Privacy Settings on the web; or tap the gear icon and choose Manage privacy settings in the app.

Locate the following tracking options: - Custom Experience - Custom Experience Plus - Business & Marketing Insights - CPNI (Customer Proprietary Network Information) and Identity Verification programs -For each, select "Don't Use" or toggle off to opt out

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RajT88
40 minutes ago
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Just checked my T-Mobile privacy settings. I had most everything turned off, but then I saw a few were turned on (such as my opt-out marketing settings). Opting out of everything took 2 tries to have them all disabled (sludge).

This one was seemingly a new one, and makes the hairs on my neck go up:

Make your choice about profiling and automated decisions.

You can tell us not to use your personal data for certain kinds of "profiling" that we might do in the future. This toggle allows you to opt out of having profiling used for future decisions that produce legal or similarly significant effects about you. We don't use profiling to make these kinds of decisions now. Turning this "OFF" or gray means "opt out of profiling and automated decisions."

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pixl97
20 minutes ago
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For some reason I cannot turn off the "Alert the Gestapo if I remain too close to an abortion clinic for too long option" on my account, says not available for Texas accounts.
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Lammy
53 minutes ago
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I did a cross-continent drive last month with my T-Mobile US phone and got a rude awakening of how real-time this is when the “source” area codes of all the spammy phone calls followed me from state to state.

e: I thought I had opted out of everything that was opt-out-able in TMo's privacy settings <https://www.t-mobile.com/privacy-center/dashboard/controls> years ago when I first set up my line/account, but I just checked again and more than half of the settings were enabled. Hate that I have to be in the habit of looking for new settings that default to enabled.

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pavel_lishin
27 minutes ago
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Weird! 99% of my spam calls come from the same area code as my cellphone number.
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ch33zer
1 hour ago
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Look forward to the supreme Court ruling that the FCC is illegal and actually owes carriers money for some reason
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TimorousBestie
1 hour ago
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SCOTUS hates the DC Circuit almost as much as it hates the Ninth; this decision is dead on arrival.
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SilverElfin
1 hour ago
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Is there any way to block this location data sharing? What about other carriers? I always think about denying apps access to this stuff but a carrier tracking me is insane and scary. The linked article makes it seem like ATT and Verizon also do this.
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tantalor
1 hour ago
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Yeah it is quite easy, just take out your phone and follow these steps,

1. Go outside

2. Break the phone in half

3. Toss it in the nearest garbage can

4. Walk away

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adrr
47 minutes ago
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Carrier tracking isn't precise as GPS tracking via the phone. Its frequently a mile or more off. Banks were using it in lieu of a travel notice to see if the card swipe and phone were in the same city. Thats my experience with it. They moved away though and now try to ping the app(silent push) to get an IP or location data since buying location data from carriers is expensive.
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Lammy
13 minutes ago
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> Carrier tracking isn't precise as GPS tracking via the phone.

Not any more. 5G changes this now that the location spying is baked into the cell tech itself. The base stations are literally steering the beam to follow you in order to achieve such high bandwidth. See “5G NR Positioning Enhancements in 3GPP Release-18” (2024): https://arxiv.org/html/2401.17594v1

“New radio (NR) positioning in the Third Generation Partnership Project (3GPP) Release 18 (Rel-18) enables 5G-advanced networks to achieve ultra-high accuracy positioning without dependence on global navigation satellite systems (GNSS)”

“Release 18 (Rel-18) NR pushes the boundaries even further, unlocking the potential for applications in 5G-Advanced networks that demand ultra-high positioning accuracy – down to centimeter-level (cm-level)” (emphasis mine)

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echelon_musk
30 minutes ago
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For a long time I've wanted something like Remote Desktop for my phone.

With the idea being that I use a second phone to connect to my main phone over the internet.

This lets the phone number you actually have associated with you stay in the same fixed geographical location.

E.g. all calls are initiated by the primary phone and tunnelled over the internet to the disposable phone.

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Lammy
24 minutes ago
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Get a Direct Inward Dialing (DID) number and a VoIP host that speaks SIP. Dunno about iOS, but Android has had native SIP support built in since Android 2.3 Gingerbread.
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echelon_musk
2 minutes ago
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That would work for calls, thanks.

But for apps like WhatsApp, Signal, SMS, iMessage etc. they would all need their own workarounds.

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sugarpimpdorsey
1 hour ago
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Yes you could go full rms and not own one* and ask someone else to borrow theirs.

* does anyone know if this is still true?

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RajT88
35 minutes ago
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Asking to borrow someone's phone is a common theft tactic. I wouldn't do it, for fear of someone thinking you're up to no good.

Burners / prepaid SIM's are still a thing.

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lazide
1 hour ago
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Even better - randomly pickpocket someone else’s phone, use it once, then toss it /s
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whatamidoingyo
1 hour ago
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You can purchase a Faraday cage for your phone. Or you can make one.
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TimorousBestie
1 hour ago
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Probably not. The infrastructure has to know where your cell phone is in order to communicate with it.

Last I checked, the large carriers in the states hoard this information for years.

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jacquesm
23 minutes ago
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This is not quite true. They have to know roughly where your cell phone is but, helpfully, your cellphone starts the process as soon as you start it up and then it is a courtesy to you that the unit closest to you will handle your call(s) and other traffic because that will save you battery and reduces the amount of power your phone will use which in turn will allow others relatively nearby to use the same slice of the spectrum while you are transmitting. Phased arrays on the mast make this even more precise and further conserve power. But that really is a courtesy: it would all work without that luxury but less efficient and your phone's battery would be empty faster.

The part that really is optional is where the carrier then stores and even sells your location. They are mandated by law with respect to the first and they abuse the technical capabilities of the system for the second. And even if it isn't very precise for a single measurement it is in fact quite precise after you haven't moved for a while.

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Spooky23
2 minutes ago
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[delayed]
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codedokode
1 hour ago
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Airplane mode.
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xyst
36 minutes ago
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What would it take to disrupt the oligopoly of limited carriers in the USA? I feel this type of behavior will continue with minimal repercussions. Maybe a slap on the wrist.

FCC, whether intentional or unintentional, through their controlled access to wireless spectrum has made it near impossible for smaller players to disrupt them.

I know "MVNOs" exist but they just resell the spectrum/network from the big 3 carriers in the USA.

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jacquesm
29 minutes ago
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A very large amount of capital, a substantial fraction of which you will be wasting on lobbying and financing the parties that managed to get spectrum allocated before you thought of this.
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xyst
5 minutes ago
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So next step is: breaking up the big 3, then.

If you have to lobby, then may as well attack them head on. Unfortunately, I think the current administration will _not_ help with this.

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guywithahat
1 hour ago
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Gee I wonder what the opinion was of the guy who wrote the headline.

It looks like what's actually happening is they're looking at usage data related to how many people are connected to the tower. I can see why one might think that's different, since you must connect to a tower to use your cell phone, and the data isn't personal usage data like a site might be. It's more along the lines of usage data, like how many people ride the bus, which is data that's shared all the time without explicit permission from every rider first.

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shakna
3 minutes ago
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[delayed]
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nightfly
1 hour ago
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More like selling when and where you got on and off the bus
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guywithahat
17 minutes ago
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Yeah I mean that's fair, it's hard to tell exactly what's happening from the article. To be clear I'm not saying tmobile is right or wrong, just that I don't think the title is totally honest here
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