Ask HN: Has anyone else been unemployed for over two years?
297 points
4 hours ago
| 64 comments
| HN
How are you coping?
pluc
3 hours ago
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Lost my job in early 2023. Couldn't find anything (25 years of exp, director of engineering managerial/technical type, great at what i do by past coworkers/bosses admission). By EOY I had to sell my house, figured I could use the (significant) profits to buy time or I could travel and make the time a little more enjoyable, so I set out to explore most of Europe thinking, well I'll for sure find a job before I run out of money! Another year went by, hundreds of applications, no job. Back home now, living in rather inadequate accommodations thinking "any day now!" Applied to ~400 jobs in the last 1.5 months (because at this point I'm applying to everything that moves), 3 interviews, 3 ghostings. Everyone's rejecting for real shitty reasons, I could go on for a bit about that.
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sanswork
3 hours ago
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After that much if you're as skilled add you think you should be finding an interview coach and someone to edit your CV.

Have you asked past bosses, co-workers for referrals?

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pluc
2 hours ago
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I've done a few rounds of CV edits and reviews early on, it hasn't helped. It's worth noting that the initial CV I had was one where I never had trouble finding work with.

Edit: misunderstood "referrals" for "references" so edited my reply out. No, I've never asked for referrals from past colleagues.

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com2kid
2 hours ago
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Not having LinkedIn is ruining your chances. Candidates without a LinkedIn are going to come across as a scam in the very least, 90% of the time your application will just get tossed if you can't be found on LI.
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ihnorton
9 minutes ago
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Seconding. These days I will rarely talk to anyone without a verified LinkedIn or other presence like a clearly inhabited GitHub (and I’m not looking for hyperactivity by any means)
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DwnVoteHoneyPot
2 hours ago
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In addition to possibly being a scammer, some people found my resume to be less believable without a linkedin profile. One interviewer thought I was lying about my previous job title.
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kulahan
54 minutes ago
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What? I just put “computer programmer” for every position listed on LinkedIn - why would that be any more valid?
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codegeek
2 hours ago
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Pretty much this. I know lot of people hate Linkedin but the fact is that if you are a job candidate and have little to no Linkedin, it's a huge potential red flag in today's world. Lot of scammers, overemployeds/moonlighters out there.
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throwaway1492
16 minutes ago
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When I was moonlighting LinkedIn didn’t affect me. Every time I applied/interviewed and got hired for a w2 job, I just left my last non moonlighting employer on there, and checked the “please don’t contact current employer” checkbox. I hadn’t worked there in over a year.

Didn’t my new employer want me to update my LinkedIn? That never came up, but if it would have I would have delayed. Why should I support their business model.

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matwood
2 hours ago
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Especially if someone has 25 years of experience as the OP said.
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ComputerGuru
2 hours ago
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I don’t have a LinkedIn and it has impaired my job hunts in the past but I always worry that creating one now (without the references of colleagues from decades of past work) would look worse than not having one?
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aunty_helen
2 hours ago
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Nah that’s not a thing. Get involved spend an afternoon setting it up and then it will suggest a bunch of people you’ve probably worked with in the past. They’ll be happy to connect and then it’s a good point to catch up and drop the “I’m in the market”.

If anybody used to enjoy working with you and they know of something it, should be easy enough from then on.

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craftkiller
1 hour ago
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Do people still do endorsements on LinkedIn? There was an initial flurry when that "feature" launched but I haven't been endorsed for anything for I think the past decade. Really the only things I do on LinkedIn are update my job history and accept connections from coworkers.
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ethbr1
1 hour ago
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Imho, anything past where you've worked on LinkedIn is a waste of time.

And arguably even a negative signal. Productive people have jobs to do instead of grinding Monopoly karma. Yes, this absolutely includes LinkedIn thought leadership.

I know MS and recruiters love to push the 'it matters' line, but I'd ask the reader -- who would you rather hire: someone who wow'd in an interview or someone with LinkedIn flair?

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MarkMarine
13 minutes ago
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<3 I thought I was alone in this
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dotmanish
2 hours ago
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Majority of my LinkedIn contacts don't have any endorsements on their LI profile.

It used to be a thing of the past - people don't seem to bother now. Go ahead and create the profile. Search and connect with your colleagues.

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acomjean
1 hour ago
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Like the saying goes, the best time was years ago, the next best time is now.

I hardly use LinkedIn, but it does show work history. As someone else said there was a flurry of “endorsements” but I haven’t seen many since.

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wcarss
2 hours ago
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not a recruiter: I have never felt that recruiters pay attention to linkedin references specifically.

You can also make one, add people, and then ask for a few references. "I just finally made a linkedin in 2025 on a lark" is a perfectly cromulent icebreaker/reason to ask.

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drivingmenuts
2 hours ago
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Well, that sucks. The one thing I hate about Linked in is being up-rated on my skills by people who barely know what I do and certainly have never worked with me in any capacity or even discussed my work in any sense beyond "What do you do for a living?".

From where I sit, it's a tool for marketers and recruiters to gather data and it's otherwise completely useless.

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scarface_74
1 hour ago
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One of my pet peeves are people who don’t understand what I call “gravity problems”. You may not like gravity. But that doesn’t mean you jump off of a 30 story building and hope to survive.

Whether I like LinkedIn or not is completely irrelevant. I play the game, add connections, post a few banal “Thought Leadership” posts, ask for recommendations, etc.

My remote job at BigTech fell into my lap in mid 2020 and at 46 because an internal recruiter reached out to me, I got my next job two years ago within a week after I started looking because of targeted LinkedIn outreach. My current job also fell into my lap two weeks after I started looking because an internal recruiter reached out to me.

It does absolutely no good being good at your job if no one knows it.

I think even in the current job market, someone would give me a job or a contract relatively quickly if I needed one based on my network, LinkedIn profile, and positive impressions I’ve made in my niche over the past 7 years.

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selectodude
2 hours ago
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Hiring managers check you on LinkedIn 100 percent of the time. Not having a LinkedIn is a huge issue.
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jonny_eh
2 hours ago
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In 2025 it basically means you're likely a bot/scammer. LinkedIn provides the social proof that at least you're a real person, with real business connections. It's sadly not optional.
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metaphor
1 hour ago
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I agree that it's not optional; in my book, a company mandating association with the degenerate cesspool that is LinkedIn as entry criteria for employment consideration is simply a non-starter, full stop.

If I disclose an email address that's directly traceable to my current employer---or even one provided to me by professional organizations I'm registered with---as adequate "social proof" (whatever that means) that I'm not "likely a bot/scammer", and a company's hiring manager is too blind to see the signal, then I'd write that off as a hidden trap passively dodged with confident relief.

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groby_b
42 minutes ago
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Good for you, you'll be a principled unemployed.

Absolutely stupid advice for people who actually look for a job. You're participating in a social game, with well-defined signalling functions. If you'd like to actually have a positive outcome, you'll need to make use of the signalling functions commonly recognized, even if you don't like them.

(Plus, opting out of a commonly accepted path with the reason that you personally think other signals are as good and the other side is just too blind to see them sends a large amount of information about your ability to collaborate in larger teams)

You do you. There are jobs where you can get away with this, there are people with networks that allow them to play different games. But as advice to job seekers, it's actively detrimental.

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mycall
1 hour ago
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any other not-optional sites to think about connecting with?
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WarOnPrivacy
42 minutes ago
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> Hiring managers check you on LinkedIn 100 percent of the time.

YMMV. White collar work here follows connections and introductions - nearly exclusively. A few of my clients might have poked around Linkedin in passing but most have never used it.

As an aside, I deleted my LI because I've never had a legit contact thru it, only spam.

source: 35yrs in IT

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pluc
2 hours ago
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I have to disagree. I looked for a long time before I found my last gig (that ended in 2022). I had a LinkedIn and it wasn't much different, it took me months to find something. I still have a linkedin account to look for jobs, but that's it. No connections, no work history. What's relevant is on my resume anyway so I don't see what having a regular linkedin account would do. I deleted it when I found that job because, even as a job seeker, I saw no value in it and as a user, I saw no excuse to defend it.
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sanswork
1 hour ago
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You've applied to 400 jobs and had 3 responses and no success to be blunt your option about what you need to do to get hired is worth zero.

You refuse to change anything about your process, you aren't working to improve it, you are arguing against people telling them you don't need to do common/standard things.

This thread is a pretty good insight into why you are failing and what you need to work on.

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pluc
19 minutes ago
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Like I said, i had a legit linkedin account before i closed it and it never felt like it did anything for me. I have changes plenty about my process, from cv iterations and reviews, ai assistance to cater to job posts in cv ane cover letters, etc. Of course i think all the information is great, but i also have first hand knowledge and experience. If you think all that's missing is a furnished LinkedIn account then i can tell you that it isn't accurate.
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selectodude
2 hours ago
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Well, keep on keeping on then. Sounds like you got this.
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james_marks
1 hour ago
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No connections and no work history, I would blacklist as spam.
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dzhiurgis
1 hour ago
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How do you ensure linkedin history isn’t falsified?

I’ve seen all sort of false claims, but ultimately small programming task is best to sift out people.

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yelirekim
2 hours ago
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You are delusional if you think having a good LinkedIn doesn't improve your chances of getting hired... Maybe not for every job, but for many of them, surely.
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pluc
2 hours ago
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I guess my experience hasn't shown value. I think people think of LinkedIn like Facebook - it only works if everyone agrees to stay hostage. I don't like the platform, I don't like that Microsoft is being all Microsofty about your data (have you looked at the new settings lately? That they added without telling anyone? Settings → Data Privacy → Data for Generative AI Improvement) and being a data-aware netizen, fuck linkedin.
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Aurornis
1 hour ago
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Hiring manager here. It's standard practice for every hiring manager I know to review the candidate's LinkedIn as an additional input to the hiring process.

Not finding a LinkedIn page for someone can range from a neutral signal to a negative signal depending on the hiring manager. I personally don't read anything into it, but I know many hiring managers who feel that lack of a LinkedIn page is a negative sign. I don't like it, but it's how the world works some times.

A seasoned LinkedIn page is also becoming very valuable for applying to remote jobs. Remote employers are getting nervous with all of the overemployed people and fake applicants. Having a mature LinkedIn page with a decent number of connections to real people is a major positive sign for remote hiring.

It's not something you will be able to see or detect as a candidate.

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X0Rsyst
1 hour ago
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I’m a manager in a cybersecurity consulting firm. I’ve hired half a dozen people for my team in the past year. I always check LinkedIn as well.

If someone isn’t on it, the chances are significantly higher they are fake or trying be be “overemployed.”

Does not having LinkedIn mean you’re not qualified or not real? Certainly not. Does it mean I will pass your resume over when sorting through a stack of qualified applicants? Absolutely.

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scarface_74
1 hour ago
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100% of people I know without a LinkedIn profile are overemployed.
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sanswork
1 hour ago
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Those people probably have very strong personal networks and a willingness to reach out to them for opportunities or a very high profile in their niche.

OP appears to have neither.

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WarOnPrivacy
24 minutes ago
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> You are delusional if you think having a good LinkedIn doesn't improve your chances of getting hired... Maybe not for every job, but for many of them, surely.

This isn't universal in every market. Business is very insular here and work follows referrals and introductions. You have those and you have work. Without them, Linkedin won't help.

I'm 35yr in IT; I plug into my clients in a way that I learn their processes - inc hiring. Few white collar employers here use Linkedin. I've never worked with one who did.

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mvdtnz
1 hour ago
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I don't think you're in a position to arbitrarily disagree with advice.
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taurath
2 hours ago
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Referrals are the only way right now. The front door is broken everywhere. I spent 4 years off and I managed to come back, but only referrals were worthwhile in getting me roles worth anything
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BryantD
2 hours ago
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One small note -- what got you an interview before 2020 will often not get you an interview now. The market (as you obviously know) is much tougher. The last two managerial roles I've opened have gotten literally thousands of applications within the first week and it's harder to stand out. If you've done a few rounds already, there's probably not much incremental value, though.

Absolutely ask for referrals. You gotta painfully get on LinkedIn for maximum effectiveness -- if you're looking at a company and an ex-coworker you got along with knows someone there, ask for the introduction. It feels awkward and weird but it increases your chances somewhat.

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bix6
2 hours ago
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Every job I’ve had came from a referral
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scarface_74
1 hour ago
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If you are trying to get a job based on your resume and blindly submitting it to an ATS, you are doing it wrong. Every open req gets hundreds of applications and it’s impossible to stand out from the crowd.
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more_corn
25 minutes ago
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Have you tried searching for a tech job? It’s not possible these days.
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MangoCoffee
3 hours ago
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this year's job market is really bad. my manager landed a new job last year but he have spent 5 years causally looking for a job ever since my employer got bought out. i have been looking to jump ship but gave up.
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pluc
3 hours ago
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It was already bad before AI fucked it nine feet deeper. Now it's probably change career type of situation, but after climbing the tech salary ladder for 25 years (not US level mind you), it's real daunting to go back at the bottom.
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bluSCALE4
2 hours ago
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This is sort of what I'm afraid of. I reflect on a lot of people I worked with in the past that are a little older than I am now and things were rough. They'd basically try and find side work and make a living off of it but nearly all of them returned to the workforce. Now, jobs are scarce so I'm really thinking that a career change might be in order. With self driving cars posed to take out a chunk of low skilled jobs and with the self imposed AI that will likely cost 25% of IT job shrinkage, the future looks really grim.

Crass's song from the 1981 Systematic Death last verse seems prophetic, "They'd almost paid the mortgage when the system dropped its bomb".

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teaearlgraycold
2 hours ago
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I’m curious about personal connections. I’ve got many fewer years of experience and have had great luck with finding jobs thanks to friends and former colleagues even in tough job markets.
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pluc
2 hours ago
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That's something that I've really wondered about too, since I can't count the number of people I hooked up with jobs I asked myself why the pendulum wasn't swinging back. I relocated "to the countryside" a few years ago and lost my big city tech network, where I was very active and even central. Not being on social media means I have very few ways to reach back out these days.
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bix6
2 hours ago
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You live in the country with zero LinkedIn connections. Do you even want a tech job?
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verteu
3 hours ago
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Sorry to hear it. What country are you in?
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pluc
2 hours ago
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Canada, but I'm a rare case that I'm open to relocate anywhere (except the US) and have been working remotely since before it was made popular by the pandemic. So I've been applying literally all over the world for two years (though it's been mostly Europe due to personal preference and desire to relocate there).
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mgh95
2 hours ago
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Why not the US? Anecdotally, I'm beginning to see the US market pick up again and a TN visa should see you employed pretty quickly.
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pluc
2 hours ago
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Because I'm Canadian. There's three places I won't go, the US, Israel and Russia. Happy to work remotely for US, but won't set foot in the place.
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richardlblair
2 hours ago
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The fact you're being questioned about this is insane.

There used to be a 0% chance of being tossed on a plane and deported somewhere else in the world when visiting the US. That chance is now non-zero, which is an unacceptable level of risk for many.

That and everything else going on. There's a reason Canadians have stopped traveling down south...

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mgh95
2 hours ago
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Business travel from CAN to US has remained stable (see: https://globalnews.ca/video/11436758/business-travel-to-u-s-...). It's leisure that is declining.

Meanwhile, total spending in the US from int'l visitor tourism is up in the US (see: https://www.hotel-online.com/press_releases/release/internat...).

Honestly, I think macro factors -- namely, poor Canadian household finances due to increasing cost of living and declining real incomes in Canada coupled with a strengthening US dollar against the Loonie -- are what are killing tourism from CAN to US right now.

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jpalawaga
25 minutes ago
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All of my personal network has stopped non-mandatory travel to the US. I wouldn’t be surprised people wouldn’t resist if their employer told them to go for business, but many Canadians are simply opting out of leisure travel to the United States.

There are plenty of other places to travel is the rationale. besides, if a strong greenback was the reason for decrease of leisure, wouldn’t it also be responsible for a decrease in business travel, too? Certainly businesses are also bound to macroeconomic shifts.

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mgh95
16 minutes ago
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I don't know what to tell you but on the front of:

> There are plenty of other places to travel is the rationale. besides, if a strong greenback was the reason for decrease of leisure, wouldn’t it also be responsible for a decrease in business travel, too? Certainly businesses are also bound to macroeconomic shifts.

Canada has shockingly little choice when it comes to trade partners. They are literally physically attached to the US and trade is much simpler when working with the US, whether Canada likes it or not. CETA hasn't yet been ratified; Canada has bungled trade with China since harper; Mexico is at best a cheap labor destination that can replace India for Canada. The only real staying power Canada has is exporting raw materials, and even that effectively turns Canada into a resource extraction colony. That's not a happy ending, either.

Canadian businesses have fewer options than many would like to admit, so it makes sense they are keeping up their economic activity with the US.

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richardlblair
2 hours ago
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As a Canadian, living shoulder to shoulder with the very folks who used to frequently travel to the US (and being one myself).

I firmly disagree.

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mgh95
2 hours ago
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Ok; all I can say is what the statistics indicate. It seems like at least some Canadians accept assignments which result in business travel to the US. As with the OC, this may result in more desirable employees to Canadian employers who wish to continue to do business with the US, hence the original question.
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sjsdaiuasgdia
5 minutes ago
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The left hand of the chart in the 2nd link provides some perspective for this year's numbers.

July 2024 through Jan 2025, the YoY numbers are always in the 7%-9% range. Averages to 7.7% across those months.

Feb 2025 to July 2025, there's only a single month (April) in that range. We've got 2 months at 1% YoY growth, one break even, and two negative. Those months average out to about 0.7%. If you include Jan 2025 to align to the calendar year 2025, you get 1.57%, which seems to be the number that becomes 'nearly 2 percent' in the text under the chart.

While it is still positive growth, it's 20% of the YoY growth trend for several months heading up to 2025. If you take out Jan 2025 (2/3 of which Trump was not yet president), it's only 10%.

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mgh95
2 hours ago
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Well, that's a personal decision. And personal decisions can have financial costs.
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pluc
2 hours ago
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The dilemma to relocate to the US hasn't come up regardless.
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mgh95
2 hours ago
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The CV info you posted basically says upper management. I'm seeing increasingly that companies centralize management in an office (either city satellites or a hq) and permit developers to either work remote within the geographic region with occasional onsites. I don't know of anybody that would permit a manager (much less someone that is a sr. manager) to be remote which is why I asked.
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rc5150
2 hours ago
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Do you really need additional clarification on why non-American citizen might choose not to travel to the US for literally any reason? If you do need examples, let me just gesture broadly to the entire US society.
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mgh95
2 hours ago
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Not really. I even live in one of the cities that is "under siege". It's basically another day.

People read headlines, lock themselves in a cage of their own making, and assume the world is on fire. People would do better trusting their own eyes and ears.

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greyb
2 hours ago
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Can managers/directors of engineering even qualify for a TN under the recent renewed scrutiny?
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mgh95
2 hours ago
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Yeah. That's actually the only way to get a TN -- to oversee technical work in a managerial capacity. Technical managers of software engineers are 100% able to enter under TN.
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bananalychee
57 minutes ago
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What do you mean it's the only way? Computer engineering is a valid TN employment category, among many others.
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mgh95
48 minutes ago
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Sorry - I mean the "only way" as a manager, not as a software/technical professional.

You can't for example, use manager of a McDonalds to qualify as a manager under a TN as far as I understand it. If you are a manager, you need to be technical in nature.

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gruin
2 hours ago
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Sorry to ask, but is this another of those comments where there's an unmentioned criminal record lurking behind the story?
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pluc
2 hours ago
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Nope
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VirusNewbie
2 hours ago
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You were a director of engineering and you didn't have more than a year of expenses sitting around?
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pluc
2 hours ago
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Directors of Engineering in Eastern Canada make (or made, until recently) < 200k, CAD. That's 145k USD. So no, didn't have much of a golden parachute like the US do.
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SeanAnderson
3 hours ago
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I've been unemployed for almost three years. It's somewhat intentional - at least leaving my last job was and I've been dragging my feet. Hopefully will have a job in upper management at the start of next year if things work out.

Coping by trying my best to become the type of person that I aspire to be. Quit weed, alcohol, caffeine. Lost 20lbs of fat and put on some muscle. Run 6 days a week, lift 3-4 days a week. Meal prep all my foods and getting into a good routine about those things.

Taught myself Rust and ECS and tried my hand at building a game. Built an Arduino prototype of some hardware a friend wanted to see exist, but ended up not trying to take it further. Built a website to help people play a video game better, it became popular while the game was trending, and made ~3-6k/mo running ads on the site. Went to Burning Man for the first time.

Now I'm kind of out of things that sound fun/purposeful and having a purpose dropped into my lap by working on an ongoing project with an existing team sounds more appealing than it did when I left the work world. So, slowly going back that way and hoping to hold onto all my good vibes and positive habits as I do so.

It's not exactly what I expected to spend three years of unemployment doing. I wish I felt more "accomplished" in how I used my time. But idk. Just kept myself busy with things that sounded meaningful in the moment. Now making money sounds more appealing than having more free time so hopefully jumping back in isn't too much of a shock.

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yodsanklai
3 hours ago
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SeanAnderson
3 hours ago
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I think from a health perspective coffee/caffeine is fine - maybe even good. I wouldn't be shocked if it were good for you.

My reason for wanting to quit caffeine was related to willpower and self-control. I wanted a stronger mind-body connection where I'd readily act on my desires rather than delegating to "I'll do that once I feel properly caffeinated." I was finding that I wasn't doing much with myself after work hours because my energy levels felt low once caffeine wore off and because I wasn't training myself to be comfortable doing things even when I didn't "feel" like doing them. Those behaviors made me uncomfortable with myself, but I never felt like I had the time to address them while working a full-time job. At best, I'd get two day "detoxes" over the weekend and then hop right back on the bean juice Monday morning.

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throwaway1492
2 minutes ago
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Quitting caffeine helped me with anxiety and some mental health stuff. Ymmv
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wara23arish
2 hours ago
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I resonate with that way of thinking a lot.

fwiw: what you did is pretty impressive and hella brave, respect

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aantix
3 hours ago
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Not if you’re a slow metabolizer. 15% of the population.

CYP1A2

Increased heart attack risk: A 2006 study found that slow metabolizers who drank four or more cups of coffee per day had a 64% increased risk of a nonfatal myocardial infarction (heart attack) compared to those drinking less than one cup daily. The risk was even higher for slow metabolizers under age 50, who experienced more than four times the risk

No increased risk for fast metabolizers: In the same study, fast metabolizers did not experience an increased risk of heart attack, even with high coffee consumption.

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plumeria
2 hours ago
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How does one find out being a slow or a fast metabolizer? DNA test?
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aantix
1 hour ago
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Get your dna sequenced. A simple 23andme test would do.

https://www.geneticlifehacks.com/caffeine-metabolism-and-you...

Like the other commenter alluded to, if you consume caffeine and your BP remains really elevated past two hours, you’re probably a slow metabolizer.

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AstralStorm
1 hour ago
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You can do the basic continuous blood pressure monitoring. Not super precise but should work for categorizing.
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helph67
3 hours ago
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Not if you have high blood pressure, both it and salt can affect your B.P. Years ago I suffered with very bad dizzy spells which always began when I tried to get out of bed in mornings. They could last a few days. A doctor said another patient had same symptom and found reducing caffeine intake reduce them. I switched to decaf and progressively they got weaker, ultimately vanishing!
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Aurornis
1 hour ago
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It's neither good nor bad in absolute terms. It can be misused, abused, and overdone like any substance.

In my experience, the people who benefit from quitting caffeine were either using far too much of it, were drinking it too late in the day (interferes with sleep), or were using it to cover up other problems like poor sleep habits.

The person drinking a cup or two of green tea in the mornings after going to bed on time is going to have a different relationship than the person drinking very strong coffee drinks all day long to stay awake because they've been scrolling on their phone until 2AM every night instead of trying to sleep on time.

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kubav027
3 hours ago
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I am on my sabatical now which I started to recover from burnout working in early stage startup. I stopped drinking coffee. I have drunk 4 to 8 coffees daily at work. It helped me to survive the day but I did not enjoy the taste. It was like eating pills. Also it did not help with sleep at night and rest during the day. I have not drink coffee or green tea for 4 months and now I have started again because I crave for coffee taste but I drink way less (3-4 coffees a week). Good think is that I enjoy it again, it helps me concentrate and also it does not interfere with my rest and sleep. The same applies to alcohol even in small amounts. It helps you to cope with overwork but it drains you in long term.

edit: So it is not only about health but also about satisfaction and well being.

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dpc050505
3 hours ago
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Caffeine withdrawals suck and it's a time and money sink keeping them at bay. I'm an habitual coffee drinker, love the caffeine high and the taste. I still wish I didn't get a headache by noon if I skipped a morning. A few days off the stuff and I'm fine, but it's still bothersome enough that sometimes I think it would justify quitting the habit.

It's enough work as it is staying fed, hydrated and getting a solid 8 hours of sleep. 20 minutes a day on getting your coffee fix is like 2 hours a week you could put to better purposes. Your article doesn't quantify the benefits, it just says there's some, that leads me to suspect that they're fairly minimal. Maybe getting an extra 2 hours of sleep or exercise would do more for your health.

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alberth
3 hours ago
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> Hu said that moderate coffee intake—about 2–5 cups a day

5 cups of coffee per day is moderate?

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Aurornis
1 hour ago
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The definition of "cup of coffee" used in studies often doesn't match the type of coffee drinks that people consume.

Typically, when someone cites these numbers they're referring to total caffeine intake under 400mg. It would be 5 small cups of mild coffee.

You can exceed this number with a single drink from Starbucks.

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dr_dshiv
3 hours ago
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True. But if you drink more than that, you should be using bigger cups.
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MengerSponge
3 hours ago
[-]
The dose makes the poison.
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aantix
3 hours ago
[-]
And genetics. Caffeine is a net negative for slow metabolizers.
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mycall
1 hour ago
[-]
What industry do you want to work in? Pick a vertical market and make stuff for it. Look at government RFI/RFP to see what is needed, follow the trends.
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dudus
3 hours ago
[-]
Also unemployed for the last 3 years after a layoff. Partially on purpose because I felt I needed a pause to recharge but I kept extending because money was not a problem due to stonks going up.

I learned react, go. Played videogames and had a child. Things are going well.

Part of me is afraid that too much time off the market will make me not fit for the workforce anymore but tbh I feel like my mental health really needed this.

Now I'm faced with a dilemma. Go back to my home country where I probably could retire now at 40 or stay here and try to get back to work. Trump administration has been making my decision easier by the day.

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hsbauauvhabzb
2 hours ago
[-]
How do you go from unemployed for 3 years straight to upper management? Were you already in a similar position in the past? I would think 3 years unemployed may not look good to people who don’t share your personal views (no judgement, I think if you’ve been unemployed for 3 years it shows good financial planning, I just doubt my conservative family would see it the same)
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SeanAnderson
2 hours ago
[-]
My last role was staff engineer/team lead. The company I was with was acquired and I was asked to take director of engineering post-acquisition. I was pretty stressed out about how the acquisition was being mismanaged and declined the role, but stayed at the company for another year when 95% of my coworkers left. I generated a lot of goodwill with the PE firm and C-suite during this time.

After I left, the PE firm finished the ~failed merger, flipped the company to another buyer, and the PE firm placed the CTO at another company. I've remained friends with the CTO and we have a monthly/bi-monthly check-in. He was very supportive of my side-projects and would've helped fund anything that I said had legs, but is equally eager to work with me again if given the opportunity. The company he's working at is going through a reorg and a position he thinks I'd be a good fit for (admittedly a growth opportunity) should open up.

If that falls through and I'm not able to get a warm intro somewhere then you're absolutely right. I'd focus on applying for IC positions, but clearly communicate that I'm interested in taking on leadership ASAP.

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BolexNOLA
3 hours ago
[-]
> wish I felt more "accomplished" in how I used my time.

Idk man I think a lot of people here would be proud to have knocked off even one of those things on that list. The lifestyle changes alone are huge accomplishments. I also wouldn’t downplay the significance of spending a little time doing nothing. Probably added some years to your life

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itsmevictor
3 hours ago
[-]
Honestly, if you didn't struggle financially, it seems to me that you've had a pretty good time and that your perception that you're not accomplished enough in how you used your time is mostly a byproduct of our tendency to always be unsatisfied rather than stemming from your past few years having truly lacked purpose :-)
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dmoy
3 hours ago
[-]
Making games in rust in retirement is my plan. Not, you know, good games (zero game dev experience), or games that anyone would realistically want to play, but seems like it would be interesting to learn.
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SeanAnderson
3 hours ago
[-]
Yeah exactly :) I had no experience and, if I'm being honest, I was shit at game dev, but boy is it a nice means of creative self-expression. (https://github.com/MeoMix/symbiants/ / https://ant.care/)

It's really fulfilling to be able to show people your work and have them play with it. It's so different than like.. spec'ing out a new database schema and then building some APIs over it. They're both coding, but one's a little harder to have a convo about at the dinner table.

Rust is such a mature language to use coming from a JavaScript background. I don't think it makes the best language for writing good games because it's too challenging to write bad prototypes you intend to throw away. You have to refactor frequently and code-compile-run loop is so slow. The lack of quick prototyping discourages me from playing around with ideas that might not work out and that makes for a worse game. However, as a programmer, Rust is an incredibly satisfying language to write in. Everything you do always feels very technically correct. The Rust quip that "if it compiles then it probably works" is very accurate and is a continuous source of pleasure.

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balamatom
1 hour ago
[-]
Not to push you into the rabbit hole but... have you looked into bolting some sort of scripting language onto your Rust program for quick prototyping?
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whatevertrevor
2 hours ago
[-]
As someone coming on 30 months of retirement, I'm consciously shifting away from toy projects to projects where I commit to a more polished deliverable.

It helps with commitment and pursuing a deeper learning of the activity instead of doing quick and dirty stuff in my experience. Just don't expect it (or aim for it) to be a steam top-seller, my aim is usually to have at least one other stranger get some amount of value out of what I produce.

Not to say there isn't a place for quick and dirty projects, of course. Bespoke 3D models to fix things around the house are my current favourite category for that.

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brokencode
3 hours ago
[-]
I’d like to invest time into the Linux gaming ecosystem. Though it’s a little daunting that so much of the work would need to be done by Nvidia and major game studios that don’t really care.

Windows just feels irredeemably mediocre at this point. Maybe Windows 12 will improve things, but I’ve been pretty down on 11.

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bix6
2 hours ago
[-]
Beast mode
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nixosbestos
2 hours ago
[-]
My friend, so much self-work, you should be proud. Contentedness comes from within. If you think about it, do you really want your worth to be determined by your career? Really? After beating the vices, investing in yourself? I'm proud of you.

There is no "accomplishment". Get off twitter and instagram, and seek contentedness. Everything else is creative self-deceit or comparison games on a rubric that is artificial and asinine.

No one actually cares about your title. Or rather, you probably know that them validating your title isn't really what's going to matter to you? Or is it? Why?

I say this with love, I spent a lot of time (albeit voluntarily) unemployed asking myself such questions. Good luck.

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frenchman_in_ny
5 minutes ago
[-]
Yes, I'm exactly that situation. Mid-40s. My background is in finance - investment banking. I spent 16 years at the same firm, before being actively recruited over to an industry-leading bank but in an adjacent sector (UHNW lending). Less than a year into that, I was laid off as part of a large reduction in force. "Sorry, last in first out, here's two weeks". Thankfully the RIF was large enough that it triggered a WARN Notice, so I got an additional 3 months out of it.

I've gone through my network multiple times, asked for referrals, have applied to 2,000+ job openings that I've seen on LinkedIn, have tried networking meetings, you name it. I'm in NYC and not geographically mobile (raising 2 kids, divorced), but I've applied to jobs in FL, Chicago, etc where I would try to make it work being in an office part time around my schedule. I've applied to totally different sectors.

The recruiting merry-go-around is brutal. ATS to enter resume data, automatic rejection emails (sometimes within under 24h!). The "what have you done the last two years" question kills me -- I've looked for a job, that's what I've done.

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autotune
3 hours ago
[-]
I was arrested for reasons I still do not understand for 1.5 years as the charges and reason(s) for my arrest make no sense, so in that sense, yes. Developed intensified bipolar disorder while locked up in jail. Biding my time until the charges get dropped or I get declared innocent by a judge so I can file a lawsuit against the police department. All that's left to do is wait, either for lawsuit time or for job applications to come through and hope there isn't a thorough background check (there hasn't been for most of my positions so far).
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jcims
3 hours ago
[-]
If your line of work is amenable to independent contracting you might consider setting up a company that you can work through rather than raw dogging 1099. I ran a security consulting company for about ten years and only on exceedingly rare (and obvious) circumstances would we have to submit background checks.
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autotune
3 hours ago
[-]
I've tried the consultancy route, but I am just not good enough at marketing myself to develop repeat business. I have an Upwork profile and tried freelancing for a bit, but it's just not worth having to purchase "connects" to initiate a bid proposal and time and again not be selected for the work (yes, I add in a cover letter message on every proposal).
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commandersaki
3 hours ago
[-]
Do you think you developed Bipolar in gaol or was it just a late onset?
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autotune
3 hours ago
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I developed a new set of symptoms that I did not have before jail. Cartoons and characters saying different things as voices when I get overly self conscious about certain things.
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bradly
2 hours ago
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I just want to say I'm really sorry you are struggling with voices and self consciousness. Not being able to escape our own minds is a feeling I don't wish on anyone and I hope you all the best through your struggles.
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autotune
2 hours ago
[-]
Thank you so much! Thankfully I have a good support system, so it's not all bad news. It mostly just means I have to avoid RTO by any means necessary because I have no idea if symptoms might emerge in the middle or end of a work day. Working on positive ways to manage it in therapy so that's good news as well.
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balamatom
49 minutes ago
[-]
Ooh, that's one of "fun" ones alright. Can happen if the perceptual validator has encysted the behavioral corrector. (Or vice versa I guess; I just ripped out mine since they were known bad; other story - point is, being unable to examine things too closely is part of the whole predicament) Jail as liminal space makes total sense as the environment for habitual workarounds to fray and the underlying issue to manifest.

Check this out. By directing your attention, you should be able to flip the polarities of either circuit and/or the "cyst" (i.e. the connection your mind makes between the two, before proceeding to disavow it; speculated transmissible). If works anything like a logic gate which determines the content of your spontaneous reaction and/or reflection to contradictory percepts and/or concepts, by messing with its truth table you should be able to switch between selective deafness, a Freudian slip, stuttering, and the one you're currently having.

Source: never sat, just hung out. "You thought radical freedom is the answer? Let's see how you handle being locked up with all other people who thought radical freedom was the answer!" is a pretty fucked up basis for a society and also a thing.

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Sohcahtoa82
2 hours ago
[-]
> gaol

The only time I've ever seen "jail" spelled this way was in Elden Ring, and I had to look it up to see how it's supposed to be pronounced to learn that it's an Old English way of spelling "jail" and is pronounced like "jail".

Curious if you've been playing a lot of Elden Ring or if there's another reason you chose this spelling.

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littlekey
1 hour ago
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I've seen it a couple of times from British writers. But it's definitely a weird spelling that's on its way out.
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mvdtnz
1 hour ago
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Obnoxious attention-seeking Australians like to do this. It's best not to respond to them, you're giving them exactly what they want.
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gruin
2 hours ago
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What are the charges? Please be honest.
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autotune
2 hours ago
[-]
Obstruction of justice (???), simple battery of a police officer (I ran into a police officer while trying to flee).
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balamatom
1 hour ago
[-]
Not that I'm in charge of hiring anything, but I'd consider "has fought a cop" as a strong positive signal for any sort of computer programming role.
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93po
1 hour ago
[-]
..flee from what? i feel like maybe that's the bigger picture

but yeah making a cop stub their toe is gonna make anyone have a bad time. im sorry the justice system is failing you.

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vault
3 hours ago
[-]
Took me 15 months to find a job after a layoff and then I accepted the first offer that came, which is basically worse in every aspect compared to my previous job. I've read all your stories and feel unexpectedly so connected with each of you. It can be hard. I just want to wish you all the best.
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HungSu
3 hours ago
[-]
I don't know you either, but I feel weirdly and unexpectedly connected to your message too. I'm 4 months into a layoff, still hunting. Appreciate your message!
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johnh-hn
3 hours ago
[-]
Same wishes back to you too. I'm glad you found something.
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mikhmha
2 hours ago
[-]
I'm hitting 2 years of unemployment in a month. Its somewhat intentional, the day after I became unemployed (I quit) I started to learn Elixir and began work on building a MMO-type game (this was unplanned). Why? Because I like distributed systems programming. I didn't expect to still be working on it 2 years later. Honestly there was no plan or expectation. I got sucked into this project and it was better than having to look for a job. Its fulfilling and intellectually stimulating. The game has public playtests and I have some interested players.

But now I'm hitting 2 years and the money is starting to dry up so I need to find work again. I always thought working on this type of project would be a win-win for finding work again, but it hasn't helped much. It may even be a hinderance. Employers/Recruiters don't take it seriously or see it as some exotic work experience. I try to tell them - Distributed Systems...the concepts are the same wherever you go. No dice. I'm on the younger side and have 3 years of professional experience at a payments startup doing backend + devops + AWS. Sometimes I wonder if I screwed myself out of the job market. I'm seen as a Junior Dev with a 2 year work experience gap.

I cope by staying in shape. I have a good routine and I even got into swimming over the past year! I think if it wasn't for these activities I would've fell into despair some time ago.

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anondual
58 minutes ago
[-]
A tip about independent projects on a resume. Put yourself as an employee, a hired contractor, or just a technical co-founder. Don't mention that you're the solo or main founder, unless it's a far past project. I've learned the hard way that regardless of what they may say about looking for autonomous, free thinking, resourceful, self-starters, basically all the qualities of an entrepreneur, employers balk at the label. Some will reject a good profile if they don't feel that you'll be around for more than 2 years, even though many of their recent hires are gone shortly after a single year.

List what the technical challenges of the projects were, what its promoters expected, and how you addressed everything. Don't let entrepreneurial merits overshadow technical ones, especially if you're not after a position like product manager in a company that truly understands how to employ entrepreneurs.

Another way to think about it is that the perception that someone else took a risk on you seems more valuable to employers than you being crazy enough, audacious enough, or courageous enough to dare take on life.

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bix6
2 hours ago
[-]
Link to your game? Would love to check it out

Nvm found it will try later since I’m on mobile.

https://swarmmo.games/

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jasonriddle
3 hours ago
[-]
I've been unemployed for about 1 year now. I was in SF working in tech for about 7 years, and decided I don't want to do that anymore, so I quit.

It's been tough. The hardest part about being unemployed is it is very hard to structure your days because work is no longer the thing that is forcing you to get up, get out, go to bed on time, etc. It's also a strange feeling having to spend from your savings/emergency fund without money coming in, you feel bad and guilty for doing so, it's weird.

I'm changing careers. I've always liked teaching, so I'm doing volunteer english teaching while preparing to apply to go back to school in order to get a Masters in Education.

In the mean time, I'm also doing other small things. Learning about AI, going to board game meetups, doing some traveling, overall it's not the most fun part of my life, but I'm treating it as I will look back on this and realize this was necessary.

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eek2121
10 minutes ago
[-]
I was in tech for over 20 years, and went from being good at my job/successful to being permanently disabled. My entire life was wired around providing for my family and supporting everyone around me both financially, and via my success.

I've lost that identity, and despite extensive therapy, meds, etc. I still haven't found myself yet.

I know I'll be okay, however.

Stay frosty. Things will work out. Cheers!

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w10-1
2 hours ago
[-]
> The hardest part about being unemployed is it is very hard to structure your days

The irony is that it takes a lot more personal discipline to remain productive without any sort of feedback loop, but the unemployed are presumptively regarded as flawed and lazy :-)

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riazrizvi
3 hours ago
[-]
Yes. 3 years. Marriage ended. Sold everything.

But emotionally, much better off than last year.

Making ends meet with a return to non-tech after a 3 decade break. Won’t ever stop doing that at least part-time, going forward, for security. For tech, focused on a body of work to create opportunities.

Optimistic.

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deepfriedbits
2 hours ago
[-]
All the best
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93po
1 hour ago
[-]
can i ask what the non-tech job is? im considering this too but the idea of stocking shelves at target makes me feel miserable
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fragmede
1 hour ago
[-]
But more or less miserable than the idea of living out of your car and eating stolen cans of cat food?
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johnh-hn
3 hours ago
[-]
I've been out of work coming up to six years. I had to look after my dad during the pandemic. I've been looking for work in London, UK, since January. During that time I've had a total of 2 interviews. Recruiters, who seem to do a keyword search only, message me from time-to-time on LinkedIn. I reply and they almost invariably never respond, presumably because they look more closely and see the large gap in employment.

What complicates things for me is being legally blind. I have enough vision to use a computer, but not much else and so I don't have the breadth of career options available to me that most people do. I need a way back in.

I keep reading, and I keep playing with code like I always have. I'm comfortable with C#, JavaScript and their respective ecosystems. It's like riding a bike. But convincing other people of that, recruiters especially, is proving to be a problem.

As for how I'm coping, I'm very up and down. It's hard not to feel that my career might be over. So when interviews have come up, I'm extremely nervous despite never having that problem in the past where I'd usually interview well.

Somehow, at least for now, I've kept going. Thanks for starting the thread.

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w10-1
2 hours ago
[-]
FWIW I’m Hoping that the combination of AI and ridiculously powerful small devices will finally get us to the point where we can interact with computers primarily through voice. A limiting factor seems to be misunderstanding what’s actually required, and you likely have insight and can build experience there. So if you were able to on your own time, build some small systems and demonstrate effective voice interaction, that might lead to some interesting work, and benefit others. From C#, you might be able to transition easily to Swift and target the Apple ecosystem, which has an a lot more accessibility support, and also has the possibility of becoming an independent developer.
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johnh-hn
2 hours ago
[-]
Thank you for the thoughtful comment. It's funny you mention this, because I've wondered about something similar. But I'm not sold on computers being controlled primarily through voice while CEOs demand a return to the office. It would make an office too noisy which makes me think remote work would be a necessary precondition for it.

You're correct about becoming an independent developer though. This whole experience made me realise that needs to be my goal if the tech industry can toss me aside at a moment's notice. I need a job to do that safely though. It's too risky on its own.

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bix6
2 hours ago
[-]
You looking at startups? I’ve seen a few started by people who turned their deafness or blindness into a new idea / product.
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johnh-hn
1 hour ago
[-]
I've had one idea in mind for a few years now. It's outside of my normal skill set so it's risky to pursue at the moment. But maybe I should start putting a little time into it even if it's just to help recharge my batteries somewhat.
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bix6
20 minutes ago
[-]
No risk no reward. Might be an energizing challenge for you.
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rhetocj23
2 hours ago
[-]
"I reply and they almost invariably never respond, presumably because they look more closely and see the large gap in employment."

Ive long thought about this problem. I think the issue is we dont have an objective mechanism to understand ones capability. Because thats really what matters.

Two people can have the same YOE, but how do you know which is more capable? Interviews are a terrible way to guage this, but is the present day mechanism thats used.

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johnh-hn
2 hours ago
[-]
It's not obvious what a better method would be.
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rhetocj23
1 hour ago
[-]
Personally I think it is obvious what a better method could be if it could exist.

The question is how to get that thing to exist.

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johnh-hn
1 hour ago
[-]
If you think there is a better way, explore it and find out. I mean that sincerely. What is obvious to you isn't necessarily obvious to anyone else. You never know what may come of it.
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rhetocj23
9 minutes ago
[-]
Thats exactly what im doing. Im working on a project with the UK govt.
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wvlia5
1 hour ago
[-]
I've been happily unemployed since 2022. Not planning to be employed ever again. Have enough money for the rest of my life already. Not because I'm rich, but because I live cheaply.

Working on self-improvement: excercise, eat/sleep well, defeat phone addiction, become social. I enjoy drugs once a week. I travel all year in some beautiful places. Spend ~2 hours every day trying to find a wife.

In 5-10 years (wifed up or wifeless), I'll buy a house in the forest and spend the rest of my life playing piano, studying math, and creating tech for fun.

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CoastalCoder
3 hours ago
[-]
I was unemployed for 14 months in 2023/2024.

It definitely hit my self-esteem, as well as 401(k).

I ended up taking a job with Microsoft, but it was a poor fit because I hate the company as well as the product area I was in.

As soon as I could I found another employer that, while not perfect, I'm much happier with.

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martin-t
3 hours ago
[-]
And this is how corrupt abusive companies can keep thriving. People will tell you "vote with your feet" from their high horse but it just doesn't work. These companies will always find somebody else to fill that role. The person needs the job more than the company does.

EDIT: Oh, wow, so much disagreement. 30 minutes, 3 downvotes, 0 comments. So tell me _where_ I am wrong.

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nosefurhairdo
2 hours ago
[-]
Microsoft is not an abusive employer. Most people today or at any point in human history would envy the typical Microsoft job. Pretty much all large tech companies are similar in this respect. If your employer is actually abusing you in some way you should contact a lawyer. If you simply have a distaste for your employer you should seek alternative employment.

The defeatist "all corps are evil" mentality will not do you any good.

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martin-t
2 hours ago
[-]
I didn't say it's an abusive employer but an abusive company.

It always fought against open source. Embrace, extend, extinguish. It always stifled innovation. Internet Explorer 6. And now, it bought GitHub and then plagiarized all public and private projects hosted on it. GPL cannot exist in a world where you can build a statistical model of the code and mechanically reproduce its functionality while somehow losing the GPL licensing in the process.

Also, calling it "defeatist" has no base in what I wrote. I didn't even write anything about corporations. Abuse has a much simpler description - using a power differential to benefit yourself at other people's expense.

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nosefurhairdo
1 hour ago
[-]
> I didn't say it's an abusive employer but an abusive company.

A confusing distinction to make in a thread about employment.

> It always fought against open source.

They've since admitted this was a mistake, and in 2020 were cited as the single largest contributor to open source projects: https://www.theverge.com/2020/5/18/21262103/microsoft-open-s...

> And now, it bought GitHub and then plagiarized all public and private projects hosted on it.

This is news to me. Are you claiming Microsoft/GitHub used or sold private source code for training LLMs?

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derektank
2 hours ago
[-]
I don't think anybody needs a job at Microsoft. The compensation is well above the US median income. If you believe Microsoft to be corrupt and abusive (I personally don't but reasonable people can disagree) there are many other opportunities to work for more virtuous organizations if you're willing to accept lower compensation.
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freetime2
3 hours ago
[-]
I think it's probably not your intent, but this sort of feels like a humble brag. Reason being that 14 months is far short of "over two years", and I think that a job offer from Microsoft is something that a lot of people would be thrilled with.
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windowshopping
3 hours ago
[-]
It didn't come across to me that way at all, not even a little.
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melenaboija
3 hours ago
[-]
Because you might be in a similar situation.

Don't know if true and if not might be close, but I recently saw the average compensation at Microsoft is ~200k...

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CoastalCoder
2 hours ago
[-]
I was paid closer to $145k while at Microsoft, and the health insurance fory locality kinda sucked (according to my wife, who manages that part of our lives).

And I didn't stay long enough fory stock grant to vest at all (IIRC).

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confidantlake
1 hour ago
[-]
I got lowballed by a certain washington state based company. Was no where close to that number.

Edit: was slightly lower than the number the sibling comment mentioned.

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CoastalCoder
2 hours ago
[-]
I was paid closer to $145k while at Microsoft, and the health insurance fory locality kinda sucked (according to my wife, who manages that part of our lives).
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CoastalCoder
2 hours ago
[-]
I appreciate the feedback. I often fail to anticipate how my words will be heard until it's too late.

FWIW, the main points I was trying to convey are:

1) Even 14 months was really hard me.

2) Only because I had a 401(k) to tap did I avoid disaster.

3) Even after long unemployment there can, in some cases, be a path back to a reasonable career.

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apsurd
3 hours ago
[-]
I guess I get it, but also the person just answered the question.

I'm commenting because I get self-conscious of over sharing. Being asked a direct question and answering it, should be good shouldn't it?

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freetime2
3 hours ago
[-]
I don't really agree that they answered the question directly. The OP asks:

> Has anyone else been unemployed for over two years? How are you coping?

I view the first question as actually being more of a selector trying to narrow down the discussion to people who are in the same boat and are currently unemployed for 2+ years. So not applicable to the parent. And they don't even attempt to answer the second question.

Of course anyone is free to comment on HN, and discussions in comments frequently go off topic. And I do think that 14 months is a long enough time to be able to empathize with with the OP is going through.

But I guess what I personally would like to have seen is some acknowledgement that "I know the question was directed at people who are unemployed for 2+ years, but..." and trying to answer the OPs question of how to cope. And also some acknowledgement that a job at Microsoft, while maybe not a good fit for the parent, is actually quite a privilege.

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Aurornis
2 hours ago
[-]
It's relevant even if not a perfect match.

Discouraging people from posting positive anecdotes is not the goal, either. If anything, positive stories are very valuable in threads like this.

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comment95198
3 hours ago
[-]
I had a bout of poor health. And now I'm isolated and I don't know how to get reconnected to other people.

I'm not coping terribly well. I think what is most distressing is that I am observing a decline in my capacity. I feel mentally sluggish. I frustrate more easily. I tire more easily. Probably most worryingly to me I get spikes of aggression that lead to combative outbursts. I feel less empathetic, even mildly sadistic at times. Very hard to control the envy and the average person I interact with evokes envy.

Everyone in my life tells me I need to get working again (yes thank you it's obvious). Not even for the money, but just to have a purpose and structure and a social life. A common sentiment. But I've come to understand that it is backwards. Employment is secondary, and it follows from having a social network and being embedded in a social context.

Poverty alters your brain in strange ways. For an example I've been thinking about lately, the world is getting very small. I was late for an important appointment. It simply did not occur to me to take a taxi. I just don't do that anymore. It's sort of categorically ruled out as "expensive luxury". Such a difference from a few years ago! Would have ordered the taxi without even thinking.

On the plus side I quit smoking and lost a bunch of weight and I'm physically in the best shape I've ever been.

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codyb
3 hours ago
[-]
Can you volunteer? I volunteer through work, but it's a great way to meet some nice people for a few hours and do something nice.
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Aurornis
2 hours ago
[-]
> I'm not coping terribly well. I think what is most distressing is that I am observing a decline in my capacity. I feel mentally sluggish. I frustrate more easily. I tire more easily. Probably most worryingly to me I get spikes of aggression that lead to combative outbursts. I feel less empathetic, even mildly sadistic at times. Very hard to control the envy and the average person I interact with evokes envy.

This is textbook major depressive disorder. I know you probably don't want to hear that, but you're basically describing a classic case of depressive symptoms.

> Employment is secondary, and it follows from having a social network and being embedded in a social context.

I'm sorry, but viewing these two things as connected or expecting one to follow the other isn't helpful. We all need a social life and we all need employment, but tying the two of those together isn't healthy. It's important to have a social life outside of work. It's important to have a job that isn't equivalent to your social life.

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rslashuser
1 hour ago
[-]
Don't underestimate the nicotine withdrawal for making you feel crabby - I've heard that anecdote many times. The nice thing is ... that one gets better with time.
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dmbche
3 hours ago
[-]
If you can I'd chat to my doctor about Adhd and trying something like concerta! I'm able to recognize many of the things you are mentionning here and had positive effects from methylphenidate.
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Aurornis
2 hours ago
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ADHD isn't a condition which spontaneously appears mid-life following an obvious difficult event like losing one's job for an extended period.

The comment was clear that these symptoms appeared after the job loss. It's a match for the symptoms of a depressive episode (which can and does appear after a difficult life situation) but not ADHD.

Suggesting that the commenter seek out stimulant medication is not good advice.

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dmbche
47 minutes ago
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I've suggested them to chat with their doctor.

Many (including myself) have been successfully living with symptoms without treatment, but seeked my eoctors advice after having similar symptoms after a similar situation, and the result was adhd medication which helped.

Suggesting that someone talks to their doctor about symptoms is reasonable advice.

Edit0: and I wouldn't go around diagnosing people with depressive episodes from a single comment, were I in your shoes. Let their practicians do diagnoses, you know?

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lvl155
2 hours ago
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One small step at a time. Small victories add up. Wishing you the best.
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sosodev
47 minutes ago
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I was unemployedish (some freelancing) for around 18 months and I'm starting what I think might be my dream job on Monday.

I was very burnt out after being fired / laid off from multiple unethical tech startups and a divorce.

During the ego death I realized that I no longer had any desire to do work that wasn't making the world a better place. I considered changing careers because it's very hard to find software jobs in that space but I kept searching. I remained sane by reminding myself that suffering is temporary and the world is still beautiful in many ways.

I got hired by a local community college to work on some very hard software problems and I couldn't be happier. I get to continue working with the stuff I love while helping people achieve upward mobility.

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Findecanor
2 hours ago
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I've been for much longer. Was unemployed when I developed cancer, and I had dead-beat doctors, so it went undiagnosed for too long and became chronic. During that time I developed a second unrelated cancer (which I have genetic disposition for) when my immune system was occupied with the first, and also COVID. Waiting, surgeries and treatments took two years.

After recovering, the Swedish employment office pushed me into a program for "job training" saying that it would help me ease into working again after my illness. I was already recovering and feeling well, working out and doing occasional charity work. I wanted to change career and get job market training to become a machinist (a non-declining job market where I wouldn't have to be exposed to AI), but was barred from that because of the program.

The company I was assigned to intern at (as an A/V programmer) claimed they wanted to hire me afterwards. It wasn't really what I wanted but I accepted it as a "consolation price" because it was at least (supposed to be...) a job. They conspired behind my back to extend the internship period into a full year. First on my last day did they offer to hire me ... except now only if they could get a government handout for doing so — and that handout would be granted only if I had a disability. I told the employment office No when they asked, but they still required me to continue working until the decision was cleared, which took another month and a half. I am not disabled ... so I didn't get hired.

No training, no job, a year of work for only unemployment checks, and overstressed with new physical outcomes: I've got a cold, the shingles and lichen ruber planus (stress-related rash) during the summer.

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qaid
22 minutes ago
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In 2019 I left my cushy job because I wanted $$$ but couldn't push myself to leetcode.

I spent much of that year on personal projects and family before I could seriously commit myself. Then covid happened.

It took 2.5yr before I worked again, in FAANG. There were many moments of feeling down and alone.

I'm unemployed again, 3 months now, this time after being laid off. I wish I could just concentrate my efforts on developing products and monetizing them. But since I have a family to support, I decided to spend time on these projects only to reward myself for grinding leetcode & system design.

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whatevertrevor
2 hours ago
[-]
Quit big tech after a decade in the industry about 30 months ago. At the time it was supposed to be a "break" because I was badly disillusioned with the meaningfulness of what I was doing, and in some ways where the industry had shifted over that time period. But then, we looked over our finances as a no-kids household with a combined 35-years of work in the tech industry (which of course is a very fortunate situation to be in) and decided we can retire.

So that's where I'm at right now. I've spent this time picking up new hobbies (currently 3D modelling, branching out to add some electronics elements right now), programming board game probability aids for fun, learning some university level courses from my partner and teaching her some myself, getting more active (my last month has been the best physical shape I've been in since university).

My personal project list keeps growing, so I have plenty to tackle and "keep me busy". Though I do want to move on from toy personal stuff to more meaty stuff in the near future. Yet, figuring out the exact nature of that is a work in progress currently.

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seanmcdirmid
3 hours ago
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I lost my job in 2017 and was out for almost 3 years until 2020. Some of that was by choice (we just had a baby and we agreed my wife should get a job first), but after a year and a half and going through a bunch of interviews (where I almost got the job), I ultimately landed at a FAANG.

What I did learn, and what should have been obvious, is that the longer you are out of the market, the more they think you are damaged goods.

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CoolestBeans
3 hours ago
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I learned an instrument (guitar), then I learned another instrument (bass guitar). I caught up with my family, I got to spend a lot more time with my nephews and nieces. I got to spend a lot of time with my dad. I picked back up circuit design and made an overdrive guitar pedal from scratch and learned KiCad in the process. I caught up with old friends but lost touch with other ones. I probably acted like an ass to a lot of people. I finally came to understand why people like watching sports. I learned how to write in cursive. I walked a lot. I listened to a lot of music. I listened to some podcasts.

I dunno, it sucks and its painful. You're constantly worried and people who at first try to support you then get pissed off at you for something you can't really control. I hope you can find your way through it.

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shoobiedoo
3 hours ago
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Picking up cursive again (I had to learn a little bit in elementary school) has been so rewarding for me. Having something right there, in the real world, ready to be picked up at a moments notice and convey whatever is in my mind onto paper is so soothing. It has been the greatest asset in my "put the d** phone down" battle so far
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fvgvkujdfbllo
3 hours ago
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> I finally came to understand why people like watching sports.

Can you help me understand it too? I don’t get it either.

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sho_hn
3 hours ago
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Watching some of the Netflix docs like the Formula 1 one or the Tour de France one is a good gateway drug into "sports watching". It turns out it's all just for the stories, and a bit for the game.
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squigz
1 hour ago
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If you're talking about Drive To Survive, keep in mind it's specifically backstage F1 drama and doesn't really capture the sport itself.

As for me, and most motorsport fans I know, it's very much about the sport and skill involved. Sure, there's other aspects to it (people like their drivers/teams/etc) but I would say it's primarily for the sport, not the stories. I can't really speak to any other sports though.

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nickstambaugh
2 hours ago
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There are heroes and villains, many different story lines about betrayal & triumphant comebacks from injury or a losing streak, etc. There is also an entire business side to it, where sports teams don't compete solely on the field, but also in business. They compete for market share to sell more jerseys or for talent to get the best players; That's always been the most fascinating to me personally.
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mcflubbins
3 hours ago
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You make it sound great to be honest (I'm sure its not though.) How have you survived without income?
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lattrommi
47 minutes ago
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Lost my job on new year's day, 2020. Have not worked since. I am not considered skilled enough for the kind of work I imagine most readers here do, meaning no degree or certifications and I've never worked in tech, mostly worked food service and manufacturing, plus odd jobs. So my context might seem irrelevant to some who frequent this site.

When I say I have not worked since, I am only referring to taxable income. Helping my mom put down mulch for her flower garden didn't require a W-2 or I-9 but I still was paid. That's mostly how I have been getting by, odd jobs for family members and friends, with a bit of reselling junk I find on the street as art.

I also live in a very low cost of living area and am very fortunate that my landlord has never increased my rent. My rent is considered shockingly low, even for this poverty dense area. I am by nature very frugal, to extremes at times, like with clothing (all from a thrift store, frequently repaired myself with needle and thread) and furniture from the side of the road.

I always wanted to work in tech. College did not work out for me (I've tried 5 times at 3 different schools) thanks in part to ADHD/bipolar/autism/whatever they call it now, with the closest I've come being a job at a call center. At this point I'm too old for food service and was never good at it anyways, too old and not strong enough for local manufacturing jobs and there are not many opportunities around me for anything else.

I keep a spreadsheet of applications I've turned in and the results of followups. There are just shy of 400 entries currently, most never get a callback or any progress from followups. I've landed 6 interviews in that time, none worked out. It's been close to a year since I added a new entry, I've pretty much given up. I'll call it retirement for a laugh but I'm only 43.

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squigz
40 minutes ago
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Is there any field of tech in particular that interests you? Programming? Game design? Systems stuff?
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lazyasciiart
2 hours ago
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My husband. Financially we’re fine, because he wasn’t in tech anyway and made 1/4 of what I do. Emotionally I’m really starting to resent it (he is not on the “I sent out 1000 resumes” track, he’s made a lot of progress in EVE).
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SleekoNiko
1 hour ago
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My non-expert advice is to kindly communicate this early, before it becomes a deeper problem that blows up suddenly one day. If money isn't a concern, it at least opens up a wider selection of options for how you two can share duties. Best of luck to you both.
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93po
1 hour ago
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communication, but with compassion, and with offers to help without shame.

shame will have opposite of intended effect

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Insanity
1 hour ago
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My ex-wife didn’t have a my stable job the last ~6 years of our marriage. She would find a job, say it made her feel miserable, and quit within months.

She would often be “dragging her feet” when it came to applying for jobs.

I’m convinced it’s part of why our marriage failed, it created a lot of tension between us. It’s not the only cause, but it contributed. I’m not sure what I could have done differently, but I empathize with your situation.

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stego-tech
2 hours ago
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You've got every right to resent it if he's not at least maintaining the household and providing a better home life for the two of you in lieu of additional income.

There's no shame in being a homemaker, and heck, I'd do it myself if I had a partner that could provide for the two of us. Cooking, cleaning, laundry, landscaping, repairs, upkeep, finances...I like the appeal, but that's because I like the job of a homemaker. It might be worth broaching that topic with your partner, see if maybe they can begin contributing in that sense. You're less likely to resent someone who has a home-cooked meal for you when you get home most nights of the week, or the laundry being washed, folded, and ironed.

And if they balk at such a notion, well...there's more data for you to act upon in your relationship. Either way, you'll feel like you're moving forward instead of stuck in place.

Just an eRando's two cents. YMMV, take with a grain of salt, etc.

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Aurornis
1 hour ago
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> You've got every right to resent it if he's not at least maintaining the household and providing a better home life for the two of you in lieu of additional income.

The parent comment didn't mention that at all.

> And if they balk at such a notion, well...there's more data for you to act upon in your relationship.

Wild how quickly a comment about someone's husband being out of work but applying for jobs jumps to assumptions that he's a deadbeat and suggestions to "act upon" it.

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wjamesg
55 minutes ago
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Not a stretch at all, the OP alluded to it
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squigz
1 hour ago
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MMOs in general, but EVE in particular, make you feel like you're part of something, which can be a huge comfort when you lose a job and some sense of self-esteem. Not to justify his behavior at all - I'd highly recommend getting him away from EVE - but I wanted to point it out.

I hope you guys work it out.

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gessha
1 hour ago
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“Working” on quests in video games can feel very rewarding. Quitting EVE might be a good idea but I think should be complemented with something equally rewarding because otherwise they might feel empty and slide back into it. Developing that rewarding feeling might take time though.
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no_nobud
28 minutes ago
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Yep. I'm an Electrical Engineer, 10+ years of experience in systems (automation, robotics, etc.). I left my job back in 2023, which I regret now, but I didn't leave because it wasn't paying well (it was low wage), or anything, but because of the management and daily harassment. However, I should have let them terminate me instead to collect unemployment.

The first few months I spent trying to make my own work, since my tech background is great, but really, that led to nowhere, especially in this economy (Canada), so I started looking for a job. Now 1.5 years of active searching and only 4 interviews, yes, only 4 where the job description was as if it was written to match my resume, yet I got rejected, just to see how bad it is, compared to before until 2021. I used to get contacted for jobs, some were in big companies like Amazon for 180k. All other applications just go to the void, or cliché "we went with another candidate" but the posting remains open 3 months later. Sometimes I would receive the rejection two hours after applying after midnight, so it's just automated.

It's been tough, mentally demoralizing and I borderline went suicidal at some point. Even now, if some burglar came to shoot me in the face I wouldn't even flinch, completely hopeless, not because of not finding a job, but because of 15+ years of education and experience and you are just invisible, no matter how you perfect the resume or whatever. Meanwhile I see fresh co-op students are hired in good companies and good positions, mostly girls too, making me believe that HR (mostly women) and managers (mostly men) prefer hiring fresh especially women for all sorts of reasons, and also company-wise too because they can pay them peanuts without an issue. I deeply regret becoming an engineer, waste of time and money. If I had invested that in other education or even becoming a plumber I would be in a better position now.

The plan right now is to find anything, work and save a little then completely change my career, no more engineering or tech stuff despite my passion in this field, but if it doesn't pay bills, it's becoming like an art degree now, especially when the industry doesn't have any measure to protect the profession. Anyone can be an engineer, meanwhile I see a nurse (which seen as the janitor of healthcare jobs) is paid ~90k on par with a senior engineer, if you found the job anyway. You know something is not right, hell, even a landscaper makes better than that. Leaving Canada isn't an option right now due to some reasons.

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apsurd
19 minutes ago
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a nurse is not the janitor of healthcare jobs.

Your first hand experience with how brutal the job market is is real. And it definitely feels like zero sum when it comes down to "a woman gets hired for reasons over me" but i must call out how dangerous this line of thinking becomes.

Also obviously not anyone can become an engineer. please don't be so dismissive of others.

if you're willing to put in the learning to become a plumber that seems like a positive path forward.

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CoffeeTails
3 hours ago
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On and off for 11 years now.

I've only managed to get sesonal summer jobs, in 2023 I finished my higer vocational studies as a frontend developer.

The jobmarket is a shitshow here in Sweden now tho, few people are getting hired, companies "can't find" anyone to hire bc they want unicorns and you read about bigger layoffs a few times a month.

All the while our politicians are ruining our welfare..

I'm honestly barely coping. I'm so glad I have my partner (who also struggle to get a job) and two cats.

I'm going to the gym twice a week, bake sometimes, cook daily sleep quite a bit as I'm tired all the time. I'm kind of just trying to stay active and stick to routines.

I've recently started seeing a psychiatrist as well

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stego-tech
3 hours ago
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I spent fifteen months unemployed during the Great Recession, in a state that was hostile to LGBTQ people, with no local support network beyond a family that I wasn’t out to. I ended up draining all my savings just to survive before finally taking up a friend on their offer of assistance.

How I coped?

* I helped run a gaming community. I threw myself into the work full time, building up a great gaming server with strong player count. This gave me social connection in an area I couldn’t openly be myself in.

* I minimized expenses, including buying delivery meals (lack of an inspected car) and making one delivery stretch two to three days' worth of meals (~$1.50 a meal back then)

The one regret is I didn’t take my friend up on their help sooner. It meant relocating to a new city, but within two weeks of putting their address on my resume I had found new work. Not stellar work, but good enough to close out my old place, pack up stuff to storage, and move out to the new city.

Definitely take up friends on their offers of help. For resumes especially, borrowing a friend’s address can give you a “local” presence and make you a better candidate. Don’t feel bad taking a career step downward if it saves your ass in the immediate - there will always be opportunities to move up again later.

You’re not alone in this. It sucks, supremely sucks ass, but you’re not a failure just because the market is in a downswing. Don’t beat yourself up over things out of your control.

There is a light at the end of this tunnel. You’ll make it.

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hperrin
31 minutes ago
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I left my job in 2021 to start a business. I just launched it, but I still don’t have a steady income. I’m living with my wife, and still have enough to get by for a couple more years, but I’m really hoping my business can start making money.
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DamonHD
3 hours ago
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Retired - sort of - when the remains of my last two start-ups died (in the same month!) after the pandemic and were sold for OK money. Now doing a part-time PhD working fixing the climate.

Coping - generally fine - helped by building up a new network of friends and doing things like going clubbing and going to music festivals and giving talks and running voluntary orgs. Just been out for beers with my mentee; he will be giving a talk at a session that I am running tomorrow with the local council.

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myth2018
1 hour ago
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Senior dev, 22 years of experience. Almost exactly two years unemployed right now. I've done some technical leadership before but I'm not looking into it anymore, not really my thing.

In general, I get very few replies, even fewer interviews and 100% eventually "freeze the position" or simply ghost me. I've heard that too many companies are currently spending their HR budgets in market research and have no intention of fulfilling most of the positions they advertise. Not sure if that's true, and maybe there are other reasons for that, market-related and/or related to my resume, but applying to jobs is feeling just a huge waste of my time currently and I'm tending to apply only when I see a great fit.

How I cope: I could save a fair amount of money during the startup frenzy in the course of the pandemics and am living off it right now. But it doesn't generate enough passive income, not even close, so I'll have to find a job eventually. I'm seriously considering another profession. Maybe trying to ingress in the education field with my masters. Despite tech job market being at the rock-bottom, the unemployment rates in Brazil are at a historic low.

Now, despite this gloomy report, if you ask me, I'm feeling optimistic, happy even. I'm really seizing the opportunity to study a lot and spending time with my family, so I feel all this is doing me well overall.

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ozim
1 hour ago
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I still have my good job but in case I lose it I am going to lie and lie and lie to get any job just going to flip burgers or whatever and send them CV cut out without degree and without accomplishments.

But still will continue on sending out proper CV.

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lanfeust6
4 minutes ago
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This experience, really a decade of insecurity, has left me always being vigilant. If I'm relentless, I don't feel so insecure. The effort has gotten me results.

Two years is well past the point of having to throw the kitchen sink at the problem. Months in, it's worth having projects in some key technologies. A year in, I'd be re-training. I'd also scout out some grants for school/training available to those who've been laid off.

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MangoCoffee
3 hours ago
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For those who've been unemployed for over a year, how do you manage financially?
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CoffeeTails
2 hours ago
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Welfare benefits and saved money
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93po
1 hour ago
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lived extremely frugally my entire life and continued to do so while unemployed, combined with being very fortunate with high rates of return in my 401k for the past 15 years
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joewhale
3 hours ago
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I'm 2 months in, and this thread scares and comforts me...
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LastTrain
2 hours ago
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Keep in mind this thread is self selecting for people who have been out of work for a long time.
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MiscCompFacts
2 hours ago
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I was laid off at a small tech company mid July and found another job with a friend at another small company in mid September. I thought maybe I wouldn’t find another job for a while, but it took me about 2 months with a very significant (40%) pay cut. I like the company pretty well, but I’m still hoping for something more. We’ll see.
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bingobangobungo
2 hours ago
[-]
took me 10 months and I'm a run of the mill guy. Just make sure to apply a lot, I think too many people look for well fitting jobs but my idea is the first one that gives any offer is usually good enough
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phatfish
1 hour ago
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Having watched colleagues land jobs where they had almost no experience in (what were apparently) key areas of the job description. I would advise to apply to anything that looks interesting to you, and fluff your CV. The job descriptions are fluffed to death so no harm.
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l___l
3 hours ago
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I've been unemployed for over two years.

I'm coping by executing a plan that leads to retirement.

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ChicagoDave
3 hours ago
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The longest was 20 months last year. In this market with GenAI and an uncertain U.S. administration, it’s not likely to improve for years.

I would recommend everyone hunker down and do what you need to survive, including selling things and moving to lower cost locations and combining assets with family where possible.

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kh_hk
3 hours ago
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Left my job in 2022, thought I was going to just take a short break. Been applying to jobs but I really struggle to find something that motivates me enough to pass the interviews. Probably have gone through 20 processes. Got one offer, but also managed to get a grant to work on my side project for the last year, so I did that instead. We see what next year will look like, but I am not too optimistic honestly.
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lotsoweiners
1 hour ago
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I find this mentality very strange but maybe it’s because I don’t have as much saved as I’d like to have. If I were out of work I’d find significant motivation to do whatever I could to pass an interview and at least make some money while looking for something better.
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tanvach
2 hours ago
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This is my 12th month. I quit due to the birth of my son, and honestly he has kept me plenty busy for now. The hardest part for me is the lack of friends who are in the same situation.
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jollyjerry
3 hours ago
[-]
3 years. Left work because I felt comfortable with finances and family life, but wanted to try something different. It’s been fun working on personal projects and sharpening old tools. Still figuring out what I want to do long term. Some ideas include becoming a CFP because I like helping people with their finances, working for a tech company in that domain, or expanding the personal project (jch.app) and building more community.

In a good headspace now, right after the first year was feeling lost on where to go next.

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carrja99
2 hours ago
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> In a good headspace now, right after the first year was feeling lost on where to go next.

Glad to hear. I had a similar experience, people act like "being in transition" where you are unsure what is next is solveable in a month, maybe three months. After that first year I still felt so unsure what I was supposed to do.

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whatevertrevor
2 hours ago
[-]
I'm in that phase somewhat right now. 30 months in, I'm still kinda unsure what I'd like to do. I know going back to a big enterprise software firm is bit of a last resort at this point, I just cannot convince myself that work is meaningful. Thankfully I'm financially secure (for now, who knows how the global trade shenanigans will actually affect my retirement funds), so there's no urgency to jump headfirst into another job. Yet, despite having plenty to do in terms of side projects, it would be a lie to say I don't feel that I need to do something more meaningful with my time.
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alprado50
3 hours ago
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Last year, I decided to leave the small agency where I had worked for almost 6 years because, being a family-owned business, it was terrible for everybody (except for the bootlickers). The first few months were decent, having time to do almost anything, but then I started to feel miserable seeing how my bank account was getting close to empty and not receiving any calls from my job applications. Job searching has to be one of the worst experiences I have ever had, but my blog (alprado.com) was an incredibly therapeutic tool.
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ReverieFish
3 hours ago
[-]
Left my job on the East Coast in 2023 when my F1-OPT expired. Returned to my home country to recuperate, focus on my mental and physical health, shrug off the perpetual anxiety, etc. Married my now wife who was still building her career in the US, moved back here, and I'm waiting on my work authorisation. Can't say I'm too chuffed about being here right now, but c'est la vie.
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it_is_beautiful
2 hours ago
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Throwaway, to do away with the polite fiction that I usually present.

Kicking around on a piece of ground in your hometown / Waiting for someone or something to show you the way

At 11 I started writing software, with entrepreneurial aspirations helped by my parents. Over my teen years I must have designed a dozen sites I never published. I did alright in school, but I was never on time. At 18, out of high school, I got my first job. I moved to the city, went to college, and flunked out. I couldn't get up for class on time, I couldn't understand the "basic high school review" math course.

So, at 19 I moved back home, worked a year, and moved back to the city to work as a developer. I applied here and there, there was never much interest. I got comfortable, and although ashamed to sickness, I managed to spend the pandemic years not working at all. I suppose my ego and immaturity "prevented" me from working a regular job.

At 23 I moved back to my home town, to work my 3rd job ever, as a cleaner alongside a bunch of teens. After a year of that, I moved to a new big city, swallowed my pride and immediately got another cleaning job. I hoped to move on from that, maybe to software, maybe some new calling.

A new life circumstance hit me like a truck, and I had a very dark year. Stayed at that minimum wage job. 24, 25, moved back home.

The last year I've been trying to improve, taking online courses, going to the gym, building a piece of software that has real value, as in, can actually make money. But, well, I have a hard time believing anything has much of value. I'm 26 now. Spent most of my year "improving", a small portion working.

I maintain the polite fiction because I don't like people asking me why I do the things I do, I don't really know. I guess I do what's easy. A younger me would've chalked it up to "trauma", "anxiety", "depression", or some DSM-able disorder. An older me doesn't believe that at all. But I barely work, don't drive, and I really isolate myself. This was all quite bad before, but after the "circumstance", the last point is especially true.

I know how to get out of the "not working" cycle, I have to get a job first-and-foremost. But I don't know how to get out of the isolation cycle, it's been getting worse and worse. I try and read up on it, but all the advice is about "making friends". That's not really my issue. I feel like an alien, and most everyone drives me insane. Well, at least I can appreciate Kafka.

(After all that, I've never made a dime on software)

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bix6
1 hour ago
[-]
To get out of the isolation cycle you have to stop isolating yourself.

Go for a walk and talk to a stranger. I talked to a random dude for 45 mins the other day and he showed me all the fish he’s caught. Epic.

Sounds like you like software. Go to a software meet up and geek out.

The friends will come but even a 5 min conversation can have a huge impact on your psyche so just get out there in a way that you feel comfortable with.

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it_is_beautiful
1 hour ago
[-]
The issue is deeper, I think. When I go to software meetups, I feel bitter. I used to have friends in technology, but most of them I cut off without a word, and those that reach out I resent. When I'm outside of my hometown, I feel like I can't relate to anyone, and when I'm back... it's hard to describe. I'd rather disappear than have anyone see or think about me. It's hard to even go get groceries now. I used to have "my people", but now I don't have anyone (except a few family members, -ish) that fits that. The common denominator, of course, is me.

I have times of regularity, where I'm charismatic and talking with people. But even then I find that all my stories end with "... that person drives me crazy!" ... Well of course they do, seems like everyone does.

The faults I judge the most in people are the ones I struggle with, or ones I've seen other loved ones struggle with where I wasn't able to help. I want to be kind, to be empathetic really, but I feel so afraid, so incapable of helping, guiding, or even listening empathetically in any way that my reactions are ...bad. Unkind, or alien.

I've been trying. But it's been getting worse.

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bix6
21 minutes ago
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You ever go backpacking? Maybe some time alone in nature will refresh you and help you reframe the human connection.
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whamlastxmas
1 hour ago
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i also thought i wasnt disabled/traumatized for a long time until i came across reading material of symptoms that perfectly described me, and life experiences that perfectly match my own.

trauma and disability can look like a lot of things, and the things in your life that you may think aren't a big deal actually can be, and you have no idea because you've never had it any other way.

realizing i have intense trauma and C-PTSD and a real disability made me shame myself so significantly less, and while it doesnt make me act like a victim or that im helpless, it gives me a butt load of compassion for myself. because the real basic things that people find easy, i find difficult, and to get the same results requires 3x more effort for me. people can view this as me being lazy when in reality im working much harder than they are.

not trying to diagnose you. maybe just keep an open mind, because the way your life is operating is not typical, and there's probably reasons for that.

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elanora96
3 hours ago
[-]
Yes, laid off in 2023 and haven't found a tech job since. Due to significant life and family health circumstances, anything that isn't a career job is hard to justify while caring for myself and others.

I've spent the last two years volunteering a local bike co-op and getting way to into bike building and cycling generally. Additionally, I spend a lot of time doing what I can to help my local trans community (that I am a part of). This work has gifted me with perspectives I would never have seen otherwise, and has really helped my organizational and soft skills.

Tech wise, I only do hobby projects now, and it's really wonderful in some ways. Having the professional experience I do, but the free time to work on projects that I want has helped me learn so much and really push my understanding of all sorts of technology.

When the job market eventually gets better, I will be able to approach it with a confidence that I didn't feel was earned before. That's really my cope lol

---

Fwiw

https://elanora.lol/resume resume@elanora.lol

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johnh-hn
3 hours ago
[-]
This could've been written by me. I hope you're doing well.
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Traubenfuchs
3 hours ago
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Why do you think anyone would want to hire you when things get better vs people that are „more in the game“, like experienced people without a career gap?

Not asking to be mean, asking because I am afraid of that happening to me and looking for perspective.

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iLoveOncall
2 hours ago
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I would honestly suggest a more professional tld and a better looking website if you want to land a job...
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names_are_hard
10 minutes ago
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I guess it depends on who reads it but I don't see any issue with it. FWIW - I'm not a recruiter it manager but I've been an interviewer at various tech companies.

My impression from the resume is that she's relatively junior with limited experience, but not zero, and her experience is in unsexy tech stacks, and she did a bootcamp. So she is fighting am uphill battle in a tough market. But I don't get the impression that she's unprofessional or immature because of the whimsical website.

I'm any case, I wish her luck, and I believe that there are roles out there that would be a good fit for her and she can gain more experience. She just needs that first break... Which is hard to get

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Citizen8396
2 hours ago
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looks fine to me
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rdtsc
2 hours ago
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Wonder if this is a coincidence that the other major discussion item on the front page is https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45305845 (Trump to impose $100k fee for H-1B worker visas, White House says) with the large majority seemingly disagreeing with the policy and sort encouraging ramping up H-1Bs and such since it's generally great for the country. But then I see a lot of young grads and unemployed laid off folks and am trying to figure out if and how the two issues are related.

Are people who look for jobs asking for too much money? They are not qualified enough and US just has no other way but to go for H-1B workers? It's hard to believe that.

Are companies playing various shenanigans with legal loopholes? I heard recently there was a database someone created of "hidden" jobs these companies post, where nobody would be likely to see them so they can turn around to Uncle Sam and say "oh well, looks like nobody wants to work here, we'll just have to go for H-1Bs".

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Wurdan
2 hours ago
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The thing is pitching your salary lower doesn’t always make you more attractive as a candidate. If you’re going in lower than market rate then many recruiters start wondering about your past performance, confidence, etc.

As a hiring manager in a big company, salary isn’t really much of a consideration for me. The company has salary bands per role that I have very little control over. If a candidate is above that band and unwilling to come down, then I probably won’t even hear from our recruiters that that person applied. So in our process, somebody wouldn’t accidentally price themselves out of an opportunity.

So it’s possible that job seekers are making themselves uncompetitive via high salary demands, but I have my doubts whether its a major factor.

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stego-tech
2 hours ago
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I’d like to jump onto this real quick because of your last bit:

> So it’s possible that job seekers are making themselves uncompetitive via high salary demands, but I have my doubts whether its a major factor.

Generally, you’re hitting the nail on the head in the immediate. The only reason I landed on my feet after this Big Tech layoff cycle is because I ate a $25k/yr pay cut so I wouldn’t lose the remaining $150k/yr in salary at a new firm.

That being said, the job market is irreparably broken at the moment, because of what you just mentioned about high salary demands. The high demands are due to higher costs, which employers aren’t willing to compensate for in salary. As the cost of everything goes up and labor gets let go, there’s this expectation for salaries to go down due to oversupply. This was correct in the era of the Great Recession, but people in all demographics other than the tippy top are out of breathing room. Everything is too expensive to survive on the subsistence wages being offered, and employers have responded by using AI tooling to automate what should really be a fully-human process (hiring), leading to clogs in the gears of the job cycle.

Ultimately something must give, if the ruling powers don’t want to have riots. Either wages have to go up to meet the increased costs of housing, transport, food, healthcare, education, etc - the basic necessities of life - or those costs have to plummet by orders of magnitude that it’d be market-obliterating.

It’s an easier pill to swallow to pay people more, but the pressure isn’t there to do so yet.

For recruiters like yourself, I’m hoping you’re taking hard looks at the market fundamentals and cost of living, and applying pressure to compensation-makers to raise it upward now while the market is broken, rather than trying to catch up to their wiser competition when something snaps. It's cheaper to pay $20k more today, than $35k + recruiting fees tomorrow.

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kilroy123
3 hours ago
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Yes, but intentionally.

I am not stopping until I am a successful entrepreneur. I refuse to go back to a full-time software job. I have had to do some long stints freelancing or agency work to make ends meet. Gotta do what you gotta do.

But I'm not going back or stopping until I make it.

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ravloony
3 hours ago
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Same here! We should have an e-coffee or something. I'm currently building my second indie project. I would love to compare notes
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joewhale
10 minutes ago
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I relate but I'm more on the sales/gtm side of things if y'all want a third as company!
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kilroy123
1 hour ago
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Sure! I'll send you an email.
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jappwilson
3 hours ago
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I have been unemployed for more than 5 years. Don't feel like working anymore!
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washadjeffmad
2 hours ago
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They only seem to call it 'aspirational peerage' when you're young, but when you're established, you still need to find and figure out what others ahead of you are doing so you have an idea about what you might be doing when you get there.

Any tips or advice on staying balanced?

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unretiring
1 hour ago
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Thirteen years. Maybe not what you were expecting to hear.

It's hard to remember beyond vignettes, but around when I left my last regular job it felt like my world was collapsing. I'd drifted out of a relationship, I was struggling with mental health just as my physical health was improving, my social and political environment started feeling uncomfortable, the small startup I worked for was struggling to pay me (at all, let alone on time), and Mom's illness was becoming terminal (eventually I lost Dad too) and I moved back home to help look after her.

Even before that my employment record had been kinda spotty but I was blessed to have a supportive family and very frugal habits that let me start building up some savings. But I also definitely counted some unhatched chickens. At first, putting the world of employment completely out of my mind was part of how I coped with the stress. Then I started deluding myself that I was "semi-retired". By the time reality fully hit me, the self-doubt from the existing gap in my resume was self-reinforcing. And my "professional network" feels like a joke now.

I'm trying to shake myself out of it, force myself to build a portfolio and go looking again. It's brutal, though. Hard to even find the words for this post, and read them back and wonder what I'm doing with/to myself. And the world is different, too. Even without thinking about AI. I have deep expertise in some tech stuff but no obvious way to show it off (of course I want to write good code rather than clever code). I don't want to do all this new "web 2.0" (is it 3.0 now?) stuff. It looks and feels awful to me, on every level. I just want to make simple, practical, really well designed tools (it was strangely hard to phrase that).

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squigz
1 hour ago
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> It's brutal, though. Hard to even find the words for this post, and read them back and wonder what I'm doing with/to myself. And the world is different, too.

I feel this. I don't know if I can/will post. I wish you the best of luck.

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ChrisMarshallNY
3 hours ago
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I have, but it's retirement. I have no desire to rejoin the rodential rally.

Been about eight years, and, after I got over the butthurt of not being hired, I leaned into retirement (I am grateful to have the means).

Best thing that ever happened to me.

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thoroughburro
3 hours ago
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Yes. I gave up and consider myself a homemaker.
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dyauspitr
3 hours ago
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It was 16 months for me in engineering management but then I wasn’t really looking for the first 6 months so probably closer to 10 months. Been employed for over a year now with a drastic pay increase.

Best time of my life honestly, after 15 years of working. I realized I get 0 pleasure from working and have plenty of things to occupy me if I wasn’t. I learned I don’t need a purpose in life. What I really love is running, woodworking, reading, eating, lifting weights, traveling and spending time with my family.

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Uptrenda
1 hour ago
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I've been unemployed since 2013 and honestly... the whole thing has been beneficial. I went through a long period of trying to find work initially, and ended up self-sabotaging offers due to intense stress. Then after that I kind of felt worthless and depressed. Took some introspection to realize I was being ridiculous and that I was more than a job.

I would say even before this all went down things were going badly for me. I had lost my passion for tech for a long time and wondered if that would ever come back... Well, after spending an entire year not coding anything I woke up one day... and felt excited again?

I think that maybe I just had burn out and had never taken a proper break in my life. Makes me realize that a lot of the way I operated was unsustainable... And if its going to end up in me being severely mentally broken to protect myself from stress that I'm self-inducing... its not worth it. Proper rest is the essential piece I never took seriously.

I don't know if I'll end up being hired again and I don't really care. I'm currently working on my open source projects and having a lot of fun. Feels good man.

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93po
1 hour ago
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Yep. Quit my job a little over two years ago being massively burnt out. It started as an intentional sabbatical but ive been casually applying to jobs for the past two years, maybe like a handful a month on average, and now two+ years out i've gone through 3/4ths of my savings (including retirement savings) and applying to jobs daily and really struggling to find anything I feel capable of doing. Both bc my resume is a bit of a red flag, but also the industry isn't great, and i'm not a super competitive candidate to begin with. Trying to find something that's literally just, like, $80k a year. Which is $40k less than my last job. i was a (mediocre) web developer for 15+ years and it seems like my skillset is basically zero at this point, bc anyone can find mediocre devs at a fraction of the price globally.

Moved to bay area a few weeks despite the cost, both bc i want to be here, but also hoping that maybe some in-person networking pays off and i can find something. i'd honestly be happy being an office manager, i don't need a high paying dev job. but even stuff like office manager requires 5+ years experience doing that.

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leakycap
4 hours ago
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I take from this you would like to be employed? If so, what are you doing to change the situation (instead of coping with it as it stands)?

I know it's hard out there (at least where I am) but I have helped a few people get jobs in the last 90 days, so please share the barrier you're facing and maybe someone can help.

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ge96
3 hours ago
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Tech-wise in the US it was tough. I went to work in factory for a bit. I had recruiters hitting me up but they were 6 month contracts so I kept turning those down but eventually I just accepted one and I'm almost a year in now.

I will note I at the time had 5 YOE but no degree so that is a factor (many I don't qualify since no degree).

Reading r/cscareerquestions is depressing not that I go on there much now. People talking about applying to thousands of jobs.

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OsrsNeedsf2P
3 hours ago
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So apply to thousands of jobs then? That's only a couple applications a day for 2 years.

And I'm not saying this from an ivory tower, my first job took 700 applications in 2021. But until you have a job, your job is to apply 8 hours a day

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fellowniusmonk
3 hours ago
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2021 and 2025 are different.

I have a friend who is a SSE. Mid 30s. Been fully employed his entire life. No degree. Has been writing production code since 15.

His entire local professional network got nuked and people stopped hiring because of that stupid software engineering R&D amortization budget deception of Section 174. And I assume the double whammy of ai.

He had his resume reviewed, ran it by friends it looked good and solid.

Applied to about 300 roles before realizing it was a non starter and he was getting automated rejections for everything.

He had to automate his application process around a full career CV and Ai.

He would spend all day copying in role descriptions and urls and had cursor spit out custom .MD resumes and then run a pdf generator on them.

It was kinda ok and also kinda like each resume was a hyper specific lie. It definitely hallucinated.

He still hit 3k resumes before getting hired and he still only had like 4 companies give interviews.

And that was only after that stupid tax law was revoked.

One persons past suffering and struggle cannot be so naively extrapolated to anothers current suffering.

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HocusLocus
1 hour ago
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I'm trying to understand Section 174 impact especially because your friend's persistence seems like a good litmus test that positive changes are afoot. Also I have a daughter who will be looking for R&D/R&E EE position when she graduates in 2026.

Needing to amortize expenses over 15 years puts a big damper on anything corps may be excited about today but with less than 100% assurance of in the long run? Restoring the pre-2022 regime for domestic expenses only is for the most part supporting domestic workers? So your friend is back in a more familiar job market... maybe college grads too? Thanks.

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trenchpilgrim
26 minutes ago
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Here's an explanation of how the Section 174 change contributed to SWE layoffs during 2023-2025: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44226571

It's been reversed now, but the inertia is still being felt. The backlog of highly qualified engineers ares still competing for positions, and other factors such as the interest rate and the effect of AI on positions for younger engineers are still in effect.

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b_e_n_t_o_n
2 hours ago
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Did he try any other approaches? If the approach I took gave me a 0.1% interview rate I'd probably do something different.
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yogorenapan
3 hours ago
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What are people doing to need 700 applications? If you went to university, usually you'd be able to get an internship after 4-5 applications & a return offer. Then afterwards just stay put when the economy isn't doing well and hop around when it is.
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tennisflyi
3 hours ago
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Categorically wrong. Graduates exceed jobs/internships (if you pass the ATS gods)
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lazyasciiart
2 hours ago
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Big vibes of “just walk into all the offices and hand them a paper copy of your resume, people love that kind of initiative!”
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zwnow
3 hours ago
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People also just shotgun applications, why would a company look at a unpersoanlized lazy shotgunned job application?
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fvgvkujdfbllo
3 hours ago
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Based on anecdotal data, companies don’t look at any personalized resume. Much better use of your time to send your standard cover letter and resume. Just apply to positions where you are, at least, 80% match. And yes you will never find 100% match, most employers make up requirements anyways.
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johnh-hn
3 hours ago
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This is my experience too. It didn't used to be this way. I always used to research a company, tailor my CV and add a cover letter. I'd be hired within 1-3 applications.

Now? It seems a waste of time because no one responds anyway. I'm incentivised to apply to as many as possible in the hope of having a conversation with someone.

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zwnow
3 hours ago
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Good thing I never had to write more than 10 to land a job...
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convolvatron
3 hours ago
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for a while I actually studied the target company, and wrote a half-page cover letter detailing why I thought what they were doing was really interesting, and how it dovetailed with my background.

those didn't come back with any more frequency than the auto-apply

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mjsir911
2 hours ago
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I made a bunch of friends in the local rave & queer community, helped start organizations including founding a hackerspace, met the love of my life, and now am part of a very healthy community that has been helping me cope and get through this shitty tech sector hiring slump.

Taking breaks has been very good for my soul, and I've quieted the fear of instability with surrounding myself with people who I know will be there for me when things get rough.

It's surprising how cheaply you can survive when push comes to shove and you have to make concessions, live with roommates, live in small housing, going to the foodbank or getting on food stamps.

Although, runway is slowly dwindling and am unsure what's next for my future. I'm not too worried, though.

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nextworddev
3 hours ago
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How much do you have saved? It all depends on that
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doormatt
3 hours ago
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I did once - but it was on purpose.

After 4 years at AWS, and ~20 in the industry, I was utterly burnt out, and needed a break. So I took two years off.

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secondcoming
3 hours ago
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I think I'm burned out, but I'm not sure. Sometimes I think getting laid off might be good for me, but being in my mid-forties worries me when Tech is so ageist.
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ulrashida
3 hours ago
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Unfortunately if you're asking this of yourself you are almost certainly burned out. Speaking as someone currently thinking the same thing -- all the times in my career where I was powering through this sort of thing never crossed my mind, it's only come up more recently as the hours have begun to climb.

Being middle age is a risk for sure, but also keep in mind you have only one or two big changes left before you're done. It matters more to get into a spot that can take you where you need to go.

Good luck with it.

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deadbabe
3 hours ago
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Was it worth it
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diamondfist25
1 hour ago
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I’ve been unemployed for 4 years

Doing my own projects

It’s much harder than just going to a company and clock in 9-5

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qntmfred
2 hours ago
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I got laid off in august 2023. I had seen it coming for a few months, as I had in the previous year been promoted to lead an engineering team for another company at the PE group I worked for and it quickly became clear they were going to consolidate the product lines at the two companies and my group's CTO lost the political battle.

I was a bit concerned at the time as the previous couple quarters had seen a LOT of tech layoffs and I had also already seen a lot of anxiety in the industry about the changing supply/demand landscape. I ended up getting a new job I was excited about in less than a month, which I was very much not expecting when I began job searching. Unfortunately I may have been too quick to jump into the first thing that came along - after 2 months of onboarding I was out of a job again, as the team lead role I was hired for suddenly didn't have a team to lead and not much use for me without one. Oh well.

I took the holidays off and figured I'd spend some time playing with all the emerging AI capabilities. I figured I'd hack on some fun stuff for a few months, see if I could build a product business around it, and go from there. I ended up building something along the lines of Windows Recall, but when Microsoft announced it in May 24 and I saw the reception, that was the end of that.

I started job searching again, but then my wife got diagnosed with cancer and I decided to extend my time off to focus on her treatment. Fortunately treatment went about as well as we could hope and this summer she went back to work again.

So I've been applying again over the last few months. Initially I focused on local jobs as I've been mostly remote since 2018 and frankly miss the office environment. I got 3 final round interviews in the first month of applying and got ghosted by all 3. That was unexpected and frustrating. And for one job, in my last interview round with a VP, he said he wanted me to come back in a few weeks to interview for a more senior role instead. Which I did, and then they ghosted me. I don't necessarily mind not getting the job (I'm awesome but hey I get there might be better fits out there for particular role requirements) but I don't get the unprofessionalism that has seemingly become so common these days.

Now I'm starting to focus on remote jobs again as well, but it's tough constantly seeing day old job posts on linkedin with 100+ applications already.

So as for coping, I'm doing alright all things considered. Definitely didn't expect to go this long without a 9-5, and I know I'm fortunate to have been able to absorb it financially. Most importantly, I'm grateful that I spent the last year+ making sure my wife was taken care of. And of course that experience really puts into perspective the importance of how we spend our days, while we still have them. I will say that I'm disappointed (with myself) I haven't been able to launch a viable business during this time, but that's how it goes sometimes. I'm looking forward to 2026.

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slowhadoken
1 hour ago
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Yeah but I’ve never been more busy and productive.
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Gualdrapo
2 hours ago
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The woman I thought was the love of my life left me for another man, made me feel guilty about it with a immense net of lies just to not be held accountable so I went into chronic depression. Quit my job at uni in october 2015 just so to not be able to see her ever again. Was unemployed until march 2018. Was broke, heartbroken and humillated not only by my ex but even by my own sister, lost my best friend in the world in part because I was broke and couldn't do much about it, even lost almost all my hair all of a sudden... It was definitely the worst thing I've ever had to endure.

Once I was lucky enough to get a miserable job I could began from the ground up all over again. It hasn't been easy but as the time passed felt like I was regaining my inner peace and as I see it now that is the source of happiness. Not everything is perfect but in 2016-2017 I couldn't even imagine I would escape that situation.

Am a bit scared because the project I'm working on is reaching its final stages so I can be completely unemployed anytime soon once again, but at least this time I'm prepared for it and am doing much better than 10 years ago.

I wish nobody ever has to go through a situation like this. Hoping you all are doing great.

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Insanity
1 hour ago
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Damn, that’s rough. Glad you made it out okay. Depression really is a crippling disease, and I do encourage anyone to see a psychologist if you experience similar symptoms.

It tremendously helped me recover after someone close to me unexpectedly passed away.

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anondual
1 hour ago
[-]
My last engagement was exactly 2 years ago, after nearly 3 years struggling with successive difficult working environments (bad employer, bad project, bad client). My savings ran out 12 months ago and I still couldn't find a job. Since then I've lived frugally, off of my line of credit and credit cards. Moving to a cheaper country helped to slow the bleeding.

After my last client 2 years ago, I got into reading/listening to philosophy, which eventually led to a steady contemplative practice. 3 months into it, it became difficult to motivate myself to do anything except listen to guided meditations, satsangs by various teachers, contemplate into the sense of self, or go on daily long walks across town doing the same.

A year ago, some motivation came back, which allowed me to do a few coding problems every day. Then about 5 months ago, I started to let go of some personal attachments (identity patterns, beliefs about me, about life, about the world, about my place in it) and motivation started to steadily come back in, but with a lot of detachment. 3 months ago I started prepping to find a job again. I bought a few books and joined a few online courses to fill the gaps in my resume. I've accepted that I may need to get back on the horse at half my previous salary. I think I would be fine with even a third and probably less, if it didn't look so suspicious to my would-be employer, lol. I have an unwavering trust that things will work themselves out just fine, so even when I experience bouts of stress, they're quite brief.

I have some short term goals, but little ambitions. I can still see the achiever in me, but he's slowly dying. I'm fine with that. I'm trying to be fine with how the world is generally. If I feel that I can help make things easier for someone right now, I can try. But I've accepted that I'm no messiah. There are no messiah. Nobody knows shit about how this or that ought to be. Now or in the future. I'm coming to peace with success really meaning experiencing breath or taking a step.

Lately, I've started adding some of the new skills that I acquired in my resume and it correlated with some reactions on my latest applications. Causation? Maybe, I don't know, but there's hope. One thing that will probably change even after I find work, is that I'll execute on my other interests, which I kept putting off, because of some far away grandiose objectives. My recent struggles with money and employment in tech have also revealed a vulnerability and a dependency. I see that I need to be more resilient and adaptable. Next time the industry comes up with new interesting shenanigans to test me, I'll probably be moving on to something else. Beekeeping, fungiculture, soap making, or whatever. I'll probably even start a few projects on the side while employed. I love coding and will probably keep doing it until my mind wavers, but it has to stop being my identity.

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selimthegrim
3 hours ago
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Yes, longer. It seems no one wants to hire graduating PhD students without a postdoc or internship.
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yogorenapan
3 hours ago
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Huawei which I previously worked for run month long hackathons aimed at PHDs & would offer internships to the top 3 teams with a return offer if they do well. This is Europe only though and competition is tough (~200+ teams with people from around the continent)
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loremm
3 hours ago
[-]
Oh no! What field? Are you going to more industrial jobs
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fschuett
2 hours ago
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Technically 2.5 years here (I had a shitty job in the meantime for 4 months, but it wasn't a tech job). I have a decent GitHub portfolio though and I've made sure to never waste my time. So, I'm unemployed on paper, yet always "employed" building open-source software in reality. I have tried to finish building my cartography startup and my mini-browser engine. Once I have that, I can hopefully support myself with non-software money because the job market in Germany is a complete disaster, I still get interviews (about two per month), but they usually lead nowhere. Sometimes I get into the next round, just to be rejected for someone with more experience.

Sadly (?), I don't have any higher education and I'm too "self-employed" for corporate jobs (corporate jobs really, really don't like having someone build their own startup on the side). And on top I'm 26, not 36, so there's no way I'll have the experience required for someone truly "Senior". I get by on German social security, I get exactly 560€ / month and that's it (plus health insurance, 220€). If you wonder how someone can live on that low amount of money, it's because I accidentally inherited a paid-off house and don't need to pay rent (state covers any taxes, would be even more ludicrous if they didn't). So I have very, very few expenses, no liabilities and a few close friends.

I never wanted to be a drain on society (heavily socially punished in Germany), so I try to stay active and use my time for open-source projects. But since my net loss on society is relatively low anyway, I see it as morally justified to develop my "cartographic AI solution" while being a bum on paper. Let's just call it "government-subsidized startup seed funding". At least the thought of "finish your startup or you'll one day die of starvation" does do wonders for my motivation.

If people want to judge me for being on social security, I don't care anymore. I have my goals and I'm not running out of work, technically, despite being "unemployed". I care about building my skills and my startup and having "something for myself" so that I don't get financially torpedoed every few years (2008 crisis, 2015 crisis, Corona 2020, AI bubble 2025, ...). Once the job market gets better or I finish building my startup, I'll be better off. Until then I just have to deal with judging looks. How on earth someone is however supposed to build a stable family life from software engineering if the job market shits itself every few years is beyond me. I guess I lack the firm handshake and smile.

I did buy "Lingua Latina Per Se Illustrata", once I'm done with my programming projects, I'll focus on that. Some of my friends can speak fluent Latin, I gotta catch up. And learning math properly, working out, etc. But yeah, I'm lucky that I don't have many expenses. Stay active, don't waste time.

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rahimnathwani
1 hour ago
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If you like LLPSI and you're in your twenties, you may also like this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44771202
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add-sub-mul-div
2 hours ago
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Almost 2 years for me but I've hardly applied anywhere in that time. I'm disgusted at what the field has become and can't see myself working in it again.

I saw this coming for a long time and kept my lifestyle simple and expenses low so that I'd be able to retire early. I'm happy to work again if I can find something reasonable but I'm not going to kill myself anymore faking my way through some "agile" AI/ad-tech company job.

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Hadriel
3 hours ago
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yes 2.5+ now. pivoting to become a mental health therapist now lol
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fHr
2 hours ago
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I would pivot to teacher or something after 1 year but market is really fucking bad.
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rdevsrex
2 hours ago
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Thankfully I'm employed, but from what I've heard there pro diversity bias against hiring straight white males.

Does that have any basis in anybody's personal experience?

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rajup
2 hours ago
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After the latest executive order, your fortunes are going to change very soon. Hang in there!
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