Subway Builder: A realistic subway simulation game
247 points
16 hours ago
| 25 comments
| subwaybuilder.com
| HN
hatsuseno
11 minutes ago
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I'll be entirely honest here, this kind of game is generally up my alley but I clicked off when I came across the list of available cities to build in being exclusively in the US. Not even a fictional playground for messing around in the engine, just "US primacy or bust", doesn't inspire confidence for a full release down the line. Not that I don't understand why it's like this, pulling the required real-world data is hard enough as it is, but it will limit the market I think.
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tantalor
15 hours ago
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In this genre, Mini Metro is really fun, highly recommend.

https://dinopoloclub.com/games/mini-metro/

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jstummbillig
12 hours ago
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The moment I have been waiting for: Top 1% player in all scenarios, both Mini Metro and Motorways. AMA.

No, they are both really fun (and highly addictive in my case). I like that you can do a scenario in 30-ish minutes (and even pause if you need to). I personally prefer Motorways over Metro, but alas, both highly recommended. Fantastic game design.

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noduerme
8 hours ago
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Thanks! I've played the daily Mini Metro challenge for years and very rarely made it into the top 10%. I've gone through phases with widening loops, grids, etc. I always feel like there must be some mysterious "trick" I don't know. Questions:

1. How important is it to make sure you alternate symbols? (Beyond the obvious of not having 3 in a row). Do you go out of your way to avoid two in a row?

2. Is it better to put major junctions at the most common circle/triangle symbols, or on squares, or the rarer ones?

3. How much imortance do you place on the slowdown from lines crossing not at stations? I always go out of my way to avoid doing it but I wonder if I overrate the importance of it in my mind.

4. When you notice that some random station along a single line is getting a lot more traffic than other ones, do you shift other lines to cross it or just add more carriages?

One of the most frustrating (but addicting) things with the game is that a couple of my highest scores happened when I first started playing it, before I thought I knew any tricks at all! Wish I could see what the best players' maps end up looking like.

Oh yeah, one more question... do you play the secret level? What actually happens there, or is it just a gag?

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jstummbillig
2 minutes ago
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1. Alternation matters because circles spawn most often, triangles next, squares least. I avoid 3+ in a row almost religiously; 2 in a row is fine unless that segment is already stressed. If I can cheaply flip a segment into triangle-circle-triangle (or similar), I do it.

2. Where to put big junctions: Squares are rare magnets, so giving every line access to at least one square prevents square-bound riders from piling up on transfers. My "major" hub is usually a square near the geographic center or a bridge choke, and I try not to merge too many trunks into one block-split load across two nearby interchanges if possible. If you have special shapes (stars, etc.), connecting each special to exactly one line that meets others only at an interchange keeps flows predictable.

3. Crossing lines away from stations: It's not catastrophic, but on busy trunks the cumulative hit adds up. I'll avoid mid-block crossings on high-throughput segments; elsewhere I don't contort the whole map just to eliminate a single crossing. Net: treat it as a tax, pay it only when it saves tunnels or ugly detours.

4. Random station getting swamped: Triage in this order: turn it into an interchange (boarding speed), add a loco, then a carriage on the most burdened line, and only then re-route another line to cross it. If nothing stabilizes, drop a short "shuttle" micro-line from that station straight to a square/triangle sink, then delete it once the queue clears. Pausing to redraw aggressively is part of the game.

On those early "beginner's luck" highs: seed luck is real but also the game rewards ruthless mid-game rebuilds more than early cleverness. Don't be sentimental about lines-pause, re-lay, and keep every line touching a square.

I have not heard of or seen a secret level!

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arh68
12 hours ago
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Wow. AMA, you say? When do you prefer loops, or lines? Additional lines, or carriages? How much do you tear down at once? if you don't mind me asking

I'm like median on Metro, ~60 hours over years (though perhaps just the one hour, 60x, &c). Never too late to learn some strategy, I guess. Never played Motorways.

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etrautmann
14 hours ago
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I like it but it always felt like there was an escalating kill screen that happens way too quickly. Either that or I'm bad at it.
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chasingthewind
10 hours ago
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I am also bad at mini Metro but the thing that makes me crazy is that when the game ends it says something like “your city shut down.” That makes absolutely no sense and the endgame message should’ve been “you were fired!” Such a missed opportunity!
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rkomorn
10 hours ago
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Maybe it does make sense: public transportation is vital to your city. If you fail at it, your city fails?
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xattt
9 hours ago
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Serves this city right for putting all its eggs into one basket.

Where are the alternate forms transport: the bike paths and bike shares, LRTs/buses, and yes, roads? What about other upstream policy levers such as WFH mandates, and a decentralized urban core?

/s

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andrewblossom
13 hours ago
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You're not alone.
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rob74
1 hour ago
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I had fun with Mini Metro for a while, but in the long run it's a really frustrating game, because it always ends in failure - you start with a few stations and a few lines, but the game keeps throwing more and more passengers at you until you end up frantically trying to plug the holes in your network or "rewiring" it on the spot, and sooner or later everything inevitably blows up in your face. Plus of course it's wildly unrealistic with the way you are able to just delete your existing "tracks" and instantly construct completely new connections between your stations out of thin air, or just "teleport" trains/carriages from one line to another.
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kkapelon
1 hour ago
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>it's wildly unrealistic with the way you are able to just delete your existing "tracks" and construct completely new connections between your stations out of thin air

You can disable that in the settings.

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Y_Y
13 hours ago
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I love Mini Metro, so chill, but challenging.

One catch is that riders only need to get a particular "shape" of station (roughly analogous to residential, commercial, industrial, stadium, etc). That is to say, they normally don't insist on going to a particular station. Also and it's free in time, money, and political captial to change routes. The model is, I feel, slightly too simple to feel like real transport infra. That doesn't stop it being hella fun though.

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KolibriFly
2 hours ago
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It's the kind of game you can lose hours to without realizing, even if it's more "transit-inspired" than a full-on sim
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wlonkly
10 hours ago
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I figure all the triangle stations must have well-connected bus routes going to the same area, and so on down the shapes. I mean surely you're not responsible for building an entire transit system!
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macintux
9 hours ago
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It’s obvious in hindsight, but before I lived in the Boston area I never appreciated just how critical it is to have buses to supplement a subway, subway & buses to supplement light rail.

Whenever the idea of light rail came up in my hometown, I would point out to my enthusiastic friends that without a better bus system, there’s not much point to rail.

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brewdad
4 hours ago
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My suburb has solid light rail to the city but a poor bus system to complement it. My closest bus doesn't run at all on weekends. There is a huge park and ride lot but, since I'm already in my car driving towards my destination, it always ends up being a question of whether I want to deal with a rail ride that might be equivalent to driving inbound but will be at least 30 minutes longer on the return. The deciding factor tends to come down to parking costs in the city or whether I plan to drink and need the long return ride to sober up.
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squeedles
15 hours ago
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Seconded. Big fan of network optimization rail games like the Empire Builder series, but Mini Metro is just simple fun!
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KolibriFly
3 hours ago
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Subway Builder seems like it's aiming for the opposite end of the spectrum
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ikamm
15 hours ago
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Mini Motorways is also really good if you like solving traffic problems
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pm2222
14 hours ago
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This game got me hooked on a long-haul flight and it's so much fun.
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mdtrooper
13 hours ago
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I love this game. And I have been waiting for the Mini Motorways for years...but for now it has not Linux version.
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bobbylarrybobby
12 hours ago
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IMO, Mini Metro is the far better game. In Mini Metro it always feels like the congestion can be solved, it's never hopeless... in Motorways the congestion does really feel impossible to work around, and then you lose. Not sure if that's due to my lack of skill or the difference between rail (discrete, must connect stations) and roads (continuous, can be drawn anywhere on the map)
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bigyabai
12 hours ago
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Mini Motorways is Platinum rated on Protondb, you should be able to play the Windows version on Linux just fine: https://www.protondb.com/app/1127500
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mdtrooper
4 hours ago
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Well, it is a option, but Mini Metro was linux native....I hope that Mini Motorways the same quality.
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markus_zhang
15 hours ago
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Realistic? Does it contain corruption, bribery, backstabbing and other political stuffs?

OK nvm my congratulations to the game designer!

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jjmarr
10 hours ago
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vgr-land
14 hours ago
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Well, I recognize this is a joke. I would enjoy having a simulation where you inherit and hold poorly maintained subway system like the Boston MBTA and have to bring it back to health with all the challenges these systems face
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mauvehaus
13 hours ago
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Isn't the principal problem with the MBTA that it's been underfunded for decades and has a maintenance backlog of about a gazillion dollars? I realize it's getting better on the rolling stock front, but it sounds like the track is still a challenge despite some real efforts to address some of the problems.

I do kind of miss riding it though. For the last couple years I was living there, I got to ride the Ashmont-Mattapan trolleys as part of my commute. That was a treat. One of the last weeks before we moved to Vermont, my wife rode down to Ashmont with me and rode the trolley to Mattapan, then back to Ashmont to take the Red Line back to her office.

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cwmma
12 hours ago
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Under Eng it has apparently turned around in the last year or so.
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nixpulvis
12 hours ago
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I rode it a lot from 2011 to 2019, and still do though less frequently. I don't presonally feel things were ever as bac as point like to claim they were, and I'm not really sure what's been "improved" so much.

The biggest changes are that you can pay with tap to pay everywhere, which is nice, and the trains drive a lot more cautiously, which irritates me because they feel considerably slower now.

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brewdad
4 hours ago
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I can live with slow but consistent versus faster sometimes and late or even unavailable at other times. For a while there the Green Line only made sense for students who valued saving a few bucks at the expense of an unknown amount of time.
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0xbeefcab
12 hours ago
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yeah its been surprisingly usable this year. a lot less delays and a decent amount faster
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wyre
7 hours ago
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This makes me realize simulations like this will be possible with AI at some point, and could be an interesting way for a city to hire employees
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xp84
13 hours ago
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You can already play that game, just put a static picture of the system map on your screen, then click all over the place and watch nothing improve
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gs17
15 hours ago
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Yeah, I was expecting a gag game where you, e.g. try to build a subway but get told you don't have enough budget to do anything.
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all2
14 hours ago
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Then you have to have dinner with an influential member of the city's planning committee and promise that the residential zoned real-estate that your company currently holds will be on offer to the committee before it is publicly offered. Also that you'll stay announcements of the new platform locations until they've bought the properties.
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KolibriFly
3 hours ago
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Even without the political chaos, modeling the physical and commuter-side complexity is already a huge win
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al_borland
11 hours ago
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This was my first thought when it stressed realism. Dealing with red tape, bureaucracy, zoning issues, opposition from citizens and local officials, etc.
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mjrpes
11 hours ago
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Anyone know how big the bay area map is? Would be neat to build dream BART, including north bay and San Joaquin valley.

EDIT: Nevermind, purchased and answered my own question. Outer cities included going clockwise from north bay: Novato, Vallejo, Benicia, Brentwood, Livermore, Santa Teresa, Los Gatos, the full peninsula northward starting from Half Moon Bay. So a good amount, but missing some outer commuting areas like Santa Rosa, Fairfield, Tracy, Gilroy.

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aizk
14 hours ago
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Colin is a friend of mine - a really wonderful self taught programmer. Subway builder gets a thumbs up from me.
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Mario970
8 hours ago
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Are there NIMBYs protesting about the Character of the Neighborhood™? If not, it's not fully realistic.
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cptcobalt
15 hours ago
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I’ve been following this game on twitter, and I’m probably going to lose my entire weekend to playing it. We need more sweaty simulators like this—the genre doesn’t have enough entries.
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KolibriFly
2 hours ago
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There's something incredibly satisfying about diving deep into systems that actually make you think and optimize
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q_andrew
13 hours ago
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Note to the dev - FYI one of Steam's terms is that your game can't be sold cheaper somewhere else. Not sure if they enforce that though.
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jsnell
13 hours ago
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Their terms are that you can't sell *Steam keys* for cheaper than the game is listed for on Steam.

There is a class-action lawsuit on this that's been ongoing for half a decade now, but as far as I can tell the plaintiffs have not been able to produce any actual contract text supporting this claim. The closest their filings come is some random customer support rep.

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Etheryte
13 hours ago
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I wonder how the terms of that work exactly in practice. For example I'm pretty sure Humble Bundle includes games that are on Steam every now and then, with a pretty solid discount if you consider what you get for your money.
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burnhamup
13 hours ago
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In practice it means Steam reviews the key requests you make for third party bundles and sales. If they decide the deal is too generous, they may deny the key requests until you've offered the game for a comparable price on Steam.
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ivanjermakov
11 hours ago
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Mindustry is paid on Steam but free on Itch.
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guywithahat
13 hours ago
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Is there a steam version though? I don't see it on there
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ZekeSulastin
12 hours ago
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It's mentioned as upcoming in the FAQ under "How much will it cost?": "$30 on subwaybuilder.com and $40 on Steam (page is coming soon). The Steam launch won't happen for a few months after the launch on subwaybuilder.com."
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noer
13 hours ago
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Really? I've noticed a few games that are cheaper via apple's app store than they are from steam. It's not a big difference, usually ~$5.
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codyklimdev
15 hours ago
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Saw a lot of buzz about this on Twitter, looks fun! I'm hoping there's some good mod support so I can add in my hometown.
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sorenbs
1 hour ago
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I've had a lot of fun playing this the past weeks. And very happy to learn the game uses Prisma on the backend :-)
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PcChip
15 hours ago
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no demo? just a link to pay $30?
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chpwssn
14 hours ago
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Not a demo necessarily but Miles In Transit - a delightfully nerdy public transit YouTuber - did a live stream playing the game early a couple of days ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3RrlV9YrS4
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AndrewHart
14 hours ago
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There are plenty of demo videos on Twitter:

https://x.com/colin_d_m

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rocketpastsix
14 hours ago
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that doesn't help people who aren't on twitter.
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kspacewalk2
13 hours ago
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gridspy
10 hours ago
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guywithahat
13 hours ago
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Does it not? I could view the videos in incognito
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gnarlouse
13 hours ago
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I was similarly unimpressed by this rollout strategy.
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richwater
15 hours ago
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The price point on steam is a little expensive for what (seems like?) might be an early access game by a single individual. Looks interesting though..
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lock1
14 hours ago
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Yeah, I think it's way too expensive if you're not using USD. It's +70% more than the price of the current Factorio steam price in my local currency. And with 40$ for the steam release, it has to be higher than Factorio post-conversion (current Factorio USD price is 35$).

It's a hard sell for me, considering Factorio has a ton of actively developed mods (cough Space Exploration 0.7 cough), a demo, and in early access era it's cheaper and insanely polished.

From a quick glance, I'm not sure whether it's a fun game or not, as realism tends to be not fun. Requiring an internet connection for map tiles also sounds not good for offline play.

Well, I'll wait for reviews when it's out before deciding then.

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shagie
14 hours ago
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At $30, I've got a lot of expectations. At $40, I've got a lot more. Neither of those price points are the impulse buy for "it might be a nice game that I could waste a few hours on." It's competing with things like Satisfactory and Factorio for promise of enduring in my library gaming.

This feels something closer to Puffin Planes ($12), Rail Route ($25), Station Flow ($18).

The difference between $25 and $30 isn't too much, but there's another significant hurdle to get up to a perceived $40 value.

It does look interesting, but for a purchase at that price point, I'm going to need to feel that its worth more than a weekend or two of gaming and something that will be a game that I want to pick up again after a month or two away from it.

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jezzamon
14 hours ago
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This seems like a game with a niche audience, and I'm sure it'll be worth $30 to the right people
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shagie
13 hours ago
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It's possible... but it's not as much of an impulse buy.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1124180/Rail_Route/ is pretty niche (and is in my library) ... and its $25, which is a fair bit less than the $40 price point planned for Steam. https://store.steampowered.com/app/1134710/NIMBY_Rails/ NIMBY Rails is at $19 (also in my library).

It could very well be a great game... though that price is one that's setting the expectations for it high.

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lmm
7 hours ago
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Maybe it's worth it, but currently it's very hard for those people to distinguish it from a game that's not worth it to them.
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brewdad
4 hours ago
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This gets into the economics of whether it's more worthwhile to sell to a large, casual audience for say $10 or a small enthusiast audience at $30-40. At the enthusiast price I expect a polished game at launch and loads of reasonably priced expansions in the not too distant future.
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maxsich
14 hours ago
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Was hoping this would be a sandwich art simulator:’)
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KolibriFly
3 hours ago
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Like SimCity meets OpenTTD but with a laser focus on subway logistics
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roundRiver
12 hours ago
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How about support for offline tiles? Portable and private.

https://www.openstreetmap.org/about

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999900000999
12 hours ago
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I like the idea.

But this is a very weird way to sell a game.

1st, we have Steam. That's where I and most people buy games. 30$ for a random exe is going to be really inconvenient.

Launch it on Steam at the same time, or at a minimum promise a key.

It's also not clear why it's just a bunch of American cities, if you're pulling the data from Google anyway, any city ( within reason) should work. If you need additional data, let users add it.

Maybe on steam I'll buy it

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mcdonje
12 hours ago
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>why it's just a bunch of American cities

They said they pulled commuter data from the census and another source. They'd need to get a few datasets from other countries to pull it off that aren't in google maps.

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999900000999
11 hours ago
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No reason they can't provide a way for users to add this.

I'll wait on the Steam release.

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ReliantGuyZ
12 hours ago
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In the FAQ they explain that they use US federal data for the population simulation, including home and workplace locations, college student counts, and flight information from the FAA.

https://www.subwaybuilder.com/simulation

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rustystump
4 hours ago
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Perhaps my most favorite game is not on steam and sold as a sketchy exe/jar file. I say more power to sketchy .exe game devs and down with steam.

Now excuse me, my Pather friends called and there is a colony using ai which must be purged by Lud’s holy fire.

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as1mov
2 hours ago
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Ha I was going to mention Star Sector as an example of a great game that's not on Steam, but looks like you've already got that covered.

Highly recommended space sim for anyone else reading this!

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xboxnolifes
6 hours ago
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It will be on steam, says on at the bottom.
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brewdad
4 hours ago
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For $10 more. I get that Steam takes their pound of flesh but this feels shortsighted given how games are consumed these days.

I like the concept and am intrigued but at this price point I'll wait for reviews from people who have played it extensively.

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roscas
15 hours ago
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Looks nice but will it have other cities around the world?
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0xbeefcab
15 hours ago
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I think the dev said maybe in the future, but currently (i think) all the population simulation stuff is tightly coupled with US Census data so this initial release doesn’t support international cities yet
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sylens
15 hours ago
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The rest of the world actually funds and builds public transit, making a simulation of doing so less necessary
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em-bee
12 hours ago
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well it would be interesting to compare european and american cities wrt. population density and building costs. the claim is that american cities are not dense enough to be worth while. in a simulation you could set the parameters so that you can specifically look at the population density as a factor.
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jeffbee
15 hours ago
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That was my first reaction ... does it simulate having a federal executive that randomly cancels your funding? A nonzero chance that the local authority demands you cooperate with the "personal rapid transit" huckster?
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tobwen
10 hours ago
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Warning: There are no sandwiches in this simulation :)
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awithrow
14 hours ago
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Is there a demo I'm missing or is this just a link to buy the game site unseen?
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noer
12 hours ago
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I've seen a few youtube videos about it and the developer has been posting about it on his twitter for a few months: https://x.com/colin_d_m
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Etheryte
13 hours ago
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This looks great, I hope you can include European capitals at some point. I've always wondered what the actual cost and layout would be in some of the cities I've lived in that don't have a subway.
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ivape
15 hours ago
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What tech did you go with here?
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0xbeefcab
15 hours ago
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Not my game, but the creator https://x.com/colin_d_m?lang=en posted a lot of tweets with technical details, also his website I think has some info.

He had some pretty interesting methods for 3D building transparency and stuff like that

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wiseowise
2 hours ago
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(It’s pure TS/JS with Electron, in case you don’t have Twitter account)
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ivape
14 hours ago
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He looks like he had a lot of fun with that. 3D maps like Google Maps/Mapbox/Maplibre can more or less serve as your engine if you have a game in mind.
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jasonephraim
14 hours ago
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Windows/Mac/Linux?
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xeetzer
12 hours ago
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jasonephraim
14 hours ago
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Ahh I had to look on Reddit. Mac and Windows
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saas_man
14 hours ago
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and linux
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artemonster
13 hours ago
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please add "super hard mode in germany" - you want to build new station? fill out 120423423 forms, 10 years of waiting, 35 lawsuits from NIMBY retirees, 312 lawsuits from environment protection agency, and after thats passed you run out of money or baloon your initial budget 10x.
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brewdad
4 hours ago
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Laughs in American. You can do all of that and one Karen who lives 300 miles from the project site and who has time to attend a 10am meeting on a random Tuesday gets the whole thing shut down.
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gnarlouse
13 hours ago
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Put it on steam please
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aldonius
5 hours ago
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It's coming to Steam in a few months, apparently.
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andbberger
15 hours ago
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this is just worse NIMBY rails
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0xbeefcab
15 hours ago
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Not too familiar with any games in this category, but I’ve been vaguely following development of this game on Twitter and one of the more interesting features is the passenger demand stuff is based off of current US census metrics about commuting methods, so I imagine this is probably better than NIMBY rails in that regard
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