The only GM EV1 ever publicly sold, and where it's going next
33 points
by zdw
4 days ago
| 7 comments
| theautopian.com
| HN
potato3732842
3 hours ago
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Impound/tow/lien -> title has always been the easy button for getting legit title to a vehicle that was never supposed to be sold (UPS vans, Uhaul trailers, etc), so long as it was never reported stolen.

Absolutely hilarious that he managed to work the "doesn't work it if pops up as stolen" angle in the opposite direction to make the car impossible to really do anything with (i.e. no junkyard can take it whole, no subsequent changes of title can happen) and live in various sorts of limbo for 20yr.

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fragmede
2 hours ago
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Could you do anything like that to trick the DMV into letting you register a BYD vehicle in California?
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throwup238
1 hour ago
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No, having a title of ownership is not the same as registering as a street legal vehicle. BYD cars don’t meet DOT Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards which is a deal breaker, regardless of which state you’re in. Even if you could get it registered, insurance would be impossible.
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trollbridge
19 minutes ago
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My state lets you register hand built and other oddball vehicles - basically, if you can get it past customs, you can register it. The out of state inspection for a title transfer is to check the VIN.

Insurance would need to be from a specialty provider who do insure oddball vehicles. Someone I know (in CA no less) insured his homemade electric motorcycle this way. (It’s titled as the chassis of the BMW regular motorcycle it was built from.)

If you’re pulled over, you would need to show things like seat belts or turn signals and so on. I got nailed for not having a shoulder belt in a homemade vehicle made after 1960. Seat belt ticket was my punishment, although the cop remarked that adding a shoulder belt would be a good idea.

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dmurray
1 hour ago
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Are they actually unsafe or they just haven't gone through the certification?

They're on sale in Europe where the car safety standards are slightly different to the US, but generally considered more rigorous.

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bryanlarsen
1 hour ago
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And Chinese cars rate higher on the European safety metrics than Western cars. https://insideevs.com/news/779537/euro-ncap-safety-rating-ch...
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SideburnsOfDoom
14 minutes ago
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For whatever reason, the industry term for the certification is "Homologation" (1)

But yes, the vehicles which aren't on sale typically haven't been homologated. Why invest the time and money in that when it's not needed?

Actually deemed unsafe and not meeting the rules is much rarer, e.g. Tesla CyberTruck in Europe. (2)

In either case, you may get away with owning it, but not driving it on public roads.

1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homologation https://www.productipedia.com/kb/productipedia/compliance-re...

2) https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2024/oct/08/tesla-cyb...

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sidewndr46
1 hour ago
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In California? Probably not. In other states? Well there are lots of military vehicles sold as explicitly non-road legal with a requirement of sale being that you can't title them. I see those with license plates and titles for sale in Texas all the time. I just don't happen to have much need for a Humvee or similar vehicle.
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potato3732842
1 hour ago
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A mechanic/storage lien is simply a way to get title without the cooperation of whoever the last guy in the database as having title is. It doesn't solve stupid government rules.

What's legal per the law is a tiny fraction of what you can put on a DMV form and have the form get past the clerk and process properly which itself is a tiny fraction of what the cops will go after.

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trollbridge
18 minutes ago
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This is what we do when buying a property that has ancient junk vehicles on it - sometimes without even a VIN intact. The purpose of a title is so that you can scrap them and get them off your property.
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throw0101c
39 minutes ago
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See perhaps 2006 movie:

> Who Killed the Electric Car? is a 2006 American documentary film directed by Chris Paine that explores the creation, limited commercialization and subsequent destruction of the battery electric vehicle in the United States, specifically the General Motors EV1 of the mid-1990s. The film explores the roles of automobile manufacturers, the oil industry, the federal government of the United States, the California government, batteries, hydrogen vehicles and consumers in limiting the development and adoption of this technology.

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Killed_the_Electric_Car%3F

And from the same director in 2011:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revenge_of_the_Electric_Car

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1970-01-01
13 minutes ago
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The only place for it is back on the road. If I was the owner I would spit into GM's face and put a million miles on the odometer. It should be a private Uber.
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api
4 minutes ago
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The EV1 was way, way ahead of its time, and was more or less outright killed for various reasons including car makers having deep sunk cost in ICE engine tech. The battery tech back then was vastly inferior to today but it was still good enough for a shorter-range economy EV that could have replaced a gas for a lot of daily commuter drives, especially for two-car families.

For reference: the first generation Nissan Leaf had similar range to the EV1. I still have one of these. It's our family's second car, and has run flawlessly for over 10 years with virtually zero maintenance. Range is still about 60 miles per charge.

BTW... despite the antics of Musk, I think he was absolutely instrumental in advancing car electrification. Yes there were others making EVs, but Tesla was the first to make them cool and in so doing force the rest of the industry to move. Without Tesla dragging the industry kicking and screaming into EVs I think we'd still be stuck with almost 100% ICE cars. China might have done it, but that's because they don't have the same sunk cost in ICE engines we have.

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robin_reala
3 hours ago
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The EV1 was the first mass-produced electric car to be offered to the public

There were ~30,000 electric cars around at the start of the 20th century, so I’m not sure this holds up.

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chiffre01
14 minutes ago
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Plus according to this the Detroit Electric Sold 13,000 units between 1907 to 1939

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit_Electric

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infecto
34 minutes ago
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Which of those 30k was mass produced? The model t was seen as the first mass produced vehicle. I think when it obtained that classification it was producing around 200k annually.
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robin_reala
30 minutes ago
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EV1 had 1,117 units produced according to Wiki, so I guess any model of those 30k with more than that would count.

Edit: apparently Columbia built 1,937 electric cars in 1904 alone according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_(automobile_brand).

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nocoiner
56 minutes ago
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Wasn’t the Model T the first mass-produced automobile? Wouldn’t surprise me if the early 20th century electric cars were basically handbuilt by dozens or even hundreds of different manufacturers.
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bryanlarsen
3 minutes ago
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First assembly line produced automobile. Mass production significantly predates the Model T. Generally, the production of guns in France in 1765 using standardized parts is generally considered the first mass produced item.
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xattt
1 hour ago
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^ modern-day, post-war, computerized
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adenta
2 hours ago
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Do we all have that one friend who also secretly has an EV1, or is that just me?
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1970-01-01
20 minutes ago
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It's just you and without some proof of it in a private garage it's really not even you.
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potato3732842
1 hour ago
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I bet for every example there's a hundred more that are just not registered and or are registered as something else.

It's like machine guns, you're not paying for the hardware. You're paying to not have the state send a squad of thugs to shoot you for not getting permission. People don't want the permission. They want the hardware. So they just get the hardware and keep it on the down low.

Also, everyone in automotive who isn't an OEM or in the emissions racket (i.e. the two groups benefitting) absolutely hates the government and this is exactly the kind of "interesting" vehicle junkyard people would save for their own personal golf cart use. Usually OEMs are super anal about making sure stuff actually gets crushed but they shat out too many EV1s into the world to do a good job of that like they do for prototypes, test mules and other stuff with low double digit production runs if that.

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Theodores
2 hours ago
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What are the obstacles to making GM EV1 replicas, albeit with modern batteries? The design still has merit and would undoubtedly be long range with the lead acid batteries swapped out for something new.

You can get businesses making replicas in small numbers, for example, I am sure you could get a Lancia Stratos, however, would GM have a big copyright ban on such a venture?

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humanpotato
1 hour ago
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Traditionally, lack of demand and the fact that GM was fastidious about keeping them off the road means that they would probably threaten a lawsuit. Electric cars in general have only become popular in the last 5-10 years; the lore of the EV1 has grown accordingly.

Copyright law for art and sculpture requires registration of each design; in searching the copyright records it appears that GM doesn't do this. Really the more appropriate forum would be to get a design patent but those last for only 15 years anyway.

Trademarks must be registered (and also apply to specific categories, though a kit car and production car are in the same category). Surprisngly, "EV1" is owned not by GM, but by Kia (the graphic is different). What this means is you can make the (GM) EV1 logo no problem, and also sell a kit car as something like "inspired by the GM EV1" but if you sell it as an "EV1" then Kia might come knocking.

In short, I don't see much getting in the way of making an EV1 kit car as long as you don't advertise it as a literal GM or EV1 car. Though as stated, you can include or sell separately an EV1 badge that buyers can slap on their own property without issue.

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infecto
34 minutes ago
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Why would you want it? Modern Evs I would assume are superior in both safety and design.
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nubinetwork
1 hour ago
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I doubt insurance would allow you to register an old Saturn that was converted into an ev1.
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criddell
1 hour ago
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They probably would. If the Saturn is older than 25 years, it can be registered as a classic car. The fact that it's highly modified with new parts doesn't really matter. It's what people in the hot rod scene have been doing forever.

For newer cars, you could probably register it as a self-built (kit car).

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sidewndr46
1 hour ago
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You're saying copyright but it's more likely to be a trademark issue.
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