WinApps: Run Windows apps as if they were a part of the native Linux OS
148 points
3 days ago
| 17 comments
| github.com
| HN
jonp888
3 hours ago
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This system works by launching an official Windows image in Docker and then making an RDP connection to it. There are a couple of others too now like WinBoat

What all of them avoid mentioning is that the images were intended by Microsoft for test and development purposes on Windows and the license clearly states you need a valid Windows license to use them: https://hub.docker.com/r/microsoft/windows#license

I wonder if Microsoft will take some action to enforce this if these projects become popular.

Edit: This comment is incorrect, see below comment from doctorpangloss

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kachapopopow
2 hours ago
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https://get.activated.win wouldn't be online if microsoft cared.
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RealStickman_
2 hours ago
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Most laptops have included Windows 10 or 11 licenses, which are valid for this use
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BlaDeKke
2 hours ago
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Last time i checked a Windows 10 and 11 license does not permit running Windows in a virtualized environment.

That could have changed by now.

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sschueller
2 minutes ago
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Last time I checked I did not agree to be bombarded with ads and have all my data tracked after paying 100+ for a piece of software...
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yjftsjthsd-h
3 hours ago
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I don't get it. Is it a VM in a container? Skimming https://hub.docker.com/r/microsoft/windows I would have interpreted that as a native Windows container, which I vaguely recall being a thing, but that would require an NT host, not Linux.
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breppp
3 hours ago
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I remember Windows containers have two modes of operation as a Hyper-V VM and some sort of container-like isolation. I think the reason is that they had to quickly ship "containers" initially and that Windows does not have a kernel backwards compatibility the same way Linux does

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/virtualization/windowscont...

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doctorpangloss
2 hours ago
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no, this system does not work by launching the windows containers on windows mcr.microsoft.com/windows images

it works by using dockurr, which is a great project but a worse way to distribute windows in the sense that it gets installed instead of downloaded and executed

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mathfailure
13 minutes ago
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Does this even work?

podman run mcr.microsoft.com/windows:ltsc2019

Trying to pull mcr.microsoft.com/windows:ltsc2019...

Error: choosing an image from manifest list docker://mcr.microsoft.com/windows:ltsc2019: no image found in manifest list for architecture amd64, variant "", OS linux

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GaryBluto
1 hour ago
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I see it's time for the bimonthly reinvention of VirtualBox and VMWare's seamless modes from a few faceless techies on GitHub and designed for people who can't be bothered to use WINE or VirtualBox.
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fsh
43 minutes ago
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Except these seamless modes have been broken for many years. Also using a containerized Windows means one doesn't have to fiddle with the insane Windows 11 setup process and TPM issues.
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prox
1 hour ago
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As someone who is looking to go Linux, do most windows apps work now through Wine or VirtualBox ? I know Valve did a lot of work for games.

It’s been 4 years since I even took a good look at it.

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MattPalmer1086
16 minutes ago
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Just anecdata, but the few things I use via Wine have all worked fine. I use yabridge so I can use windows VSTs in my Linux DAW.

Games (if they don't use kernel level anti cheat systems) are all flawless with Proton.

But, I honestly don't have a need to use much other windows only software. Almost everything I need to use has Linux versions, or alternatives that fit my needs.

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SapporoChris
1 hour ago
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Most things work great. There are some niche things that do not work so well. Example: SteamVR,Vive VR Hub, some AntiCheat for games.
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Jnr
1 hour ago
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A lot of them do, but for almost everything there are native alternatives.

I haven't used Wine directly in years, only indirectly through Steam.

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shlip
7 minutes ago
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Well it will work nicely if you have a decently modern setup I guess. But I suspect the experience on a 10+ yo laptop would not be that great.
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xg15
14 minutes ago
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So essentially the WSL in reverse?

I'm kind of surprised you can "run Windows" in a Docker container at all. Isn't the fundamental restriction of Docker that all containers share the same (linux) kernel? Is there a way for docker to inject a "translation layer" somehow that makes it look like an NT kernel for the Windows processes?

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andai
4 hours ago
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Thought "isn't that just Wine" but no! They are virtualizing it! And integrating them seamlessly with Linux desktop somehow!

Looks pretty cool. I remember playing with something similar in Virtualbox, it had a seamless mode too. It was a bit janky, and I think they removed it recently.

I used it in the old days, to have MSN messenger on Ubuntu :)

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Krutonium
3 hours ago
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Seamless Mode didn't work for anything newer than... XP, I think, as a guest? So it makes sense they'd drop it. Fun while it lasted though!
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userbinator
4 hours ago
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They are virtualizing it!

This is incidentally how Windows 386-9x ran DOS applications - in a VM, using V86 mode.

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tommica
3 hours ago
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> This is incidentally how Windows 386-9x ran DOS applications - in a VM, using V86 mode.

Oh that is cool! Somehow I imagined that virtualization is more of a "modern" concept, but clearly that is naive thinking.

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pfix
2 hours ago
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History edit

A form of virtualization was first demonstrated with IBM's CP-40 research system in 1967, then distributed via open source in CP/CMS in 1967–1972, and re-implemented in IBM's VM family from 1972 to the present. Each CP/CMS user was provided a simulated, stand-alone computer.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtualization

Sometimes it feels like we don't have any actual innovation in CS anymore and it's all from pre 2000s and only made mainstream starting then.

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phito
2 hours ago
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How good is it in practice? I've found windows VMs under a Linux host to be frustrating to use, and get poor performances no matter how much resources I throw at it. The clock keeps getting messed up all the time. UI is sluggish.

I now use a dedicated windows laptop in RDP and it is such a better experience better than a VM.

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fsh
49 minutes ago
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It's pretty good. They use XfreeRDP to remote into the container and display individual windows. This somehow performs a lot better than the GPU emulations of VirtualBox or VMware. I guess Microsoft put some effort into optimizing RDP for Terminal Server applications.
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delta_p_delta_x
1 hour ago
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> UI is sluggish

You absolutely need to pass through a GPU so that DWM.exe is properly accelerated; otherwise, it falls back to the software-accelerated WARP and the performance tanks to ~15 FPS.

It doesn't need to be anything powerful; if you have an idle integrated card that you aren't using on the Linux host because you only interact with it through a Web server or SSH (for instance, Proxmox), then pass that through. It's what I do on my home lab which runs a 9950X.

Before people raise pitchforks against Linux, this applies there, too, for the record: at work I have a Linux instance just to myself that by any other metric is ridiculously powerful: 64-core Epyc, 96 GB memory, but no iGPU, so remote desktop works very poorly.

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j16sdiz
3 hours ago
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> Icon in the Public Domain.

You can't re-create an icon to circumvent trademark law.

Using icon to refer to an application is fair use.

I am not sure what's the point of having a public domain icon.

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rbits
17 seconds ago
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Who's re-creating an icon? I can only see links to images from Wikipedia
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GaryBluto
2 hours ago
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Think of the fact that nobody working on the project even considered that as a helpful warning to not use it.

Even more humorous is the fact they decided to repeat this blunder under every single icon instead of neatly below the table.

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Yehia_loay
2 hours ago
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This is cool, When i looked at this i thought it was just WinBoat, Turn's out, it's not But of course there isn't a way to run it at the same performance as if windows was installed as the main OS. You would always need some kind of virtualization. Anyways, This is a very cool project. Good luck!
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terra_nera
2 hours ago
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It really whips the llamas ass ....

This popped into my head before I had a second to do a double take.

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cromka
3 hours ago
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How about GPU acceleration, for e.g. Affinity?
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BoredPositron
22 minutes ago
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Works on wine via vulcan/opencl
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gigatexal
2 hours ago
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Probably works the same as any other container that needs such acceleration (plex, CUDA) just pass the device over and the CAPs. There are guides online. Whether or not the windows in a container will use it idk.
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eptcyka
2 hours ago
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Windows is virtualised here.
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BlaDeKke
2 hours ago
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I tried this method for my wife. So she could use ms office in Linux. This isn’t an elegant solution. She’s back to windows 11. We tried…
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jeena
1 hour ago
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I'm using MS Office for Work in the browser. But I just live with the shortcomings specifically in PowerPoint where I can't do connectors for example.
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BlaDeKke
1 hour ago
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She only uses that laptop for MS Office. She did actually use the browser version for a few months, but even that is a significant downgrade compared to native apps.

MS Office and most popular multiplayer games are the 2 biggest hurdles for Linux adoption at the moment.

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runsonrum
2 hours ago
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I would be looking for a solution to run Minecraft official launcher in Linux. It is heavily integrated with Windows extras such as the Microsoft Store.

This is the last holdout to get my children on Linux.

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jeena
1 hour ago
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What's missing from the launcher available on Linux? I've been using it for many years, but I have never used in on Windows.
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specproc
1 hour ago
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There are two editions: Java and Bedrock. Bedrock is the one that's got Realms, which is the easy way to get servers running.

Have this problem with my brother and nephew, would love to get the lad on Linux, but this is a real obstacle.

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hcurtiss
3 hours ago
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Parallels coherence mode in MacOS is similar.
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cyberax
4 hours ago
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Ok. Can you run WSL inside of it?
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RealityVoid
3 hours ago
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Hah! Even better question is can you run it inside WSL?
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tonyhart7
1 hour ago
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Windows have wsl and linux have wine,winapps etc

at some point in the future, Your OS wouldnt matters because all OS is reaching feature parity

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fsflover
1 hour ago
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The OS matters, because if it belongs to a mega-corporation, it serves its goals, not yours. Examples: Windows spying on users, iOS not allowing 3rd-party apps without you providing all your private data to Apple.
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queenkjuul
2 hours ago
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I've had mixed results with this, recent versions of Adobe in particular gave me trouble.

I've been meaning to try WinBoat, but it's based on the same underlying technology (docker+RDP) so I'm guessing I'll hit the same bugs. I was thinking maybe i could alter the code to launch a different RDP client instead of the default.

Still, if you just need Office, it's a much more integrated setup than you can easily achieve with VMs.

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