AI-Assisted Coding Killed My Joy of Programming
35 points
8 hours ago
| 16 comments
| meysam.io
| HN
dnautics
4 hours ago
[-]
I have years old projects that have languished that I have resurrected due to AI-assisted coding.

- "embedded" (rpi) controller for a boxfan that runs in my lab

- VSR distributed consistency protocol library

- dead simple CQRS library

- OT library

I now have the CQRS library deployed to do accounting for a small SAAS that might generate revenue for me...

On the docket is:

- yard watering "embedded" (rpi) device

- fully personalized home thermostat

etc.

reply
dsmark
4 hours ago
[-]
AI-assisted development has helped me fall in love with coding again. This year, I’ve created more than 200 small applications and utilities that are delivering real value to the business, and I’m grateful that this work has been recognized with both a raise and a promotion.
reply
trillic
2 hours ago
[-]
You’re averaging a new application every business day? How does that even work deploying and maintenance? What happens if you leave and your 200 vibe coded apps become tech debt?
reply
dsmark
2 hours ago
[-]
I’m including everything in that count: scripts, Python-compiled executables, development tooling, and custom software. On some days, I’ll build five or more small tools or scripts just to automate a single process. Working for a small business gives me the flexibility and freedom to explore new technologies and experiment.
reply
torlok
1 hour ago
[-]
That doesn't answer any of the concerns raised by the parent comment, only reinforces them.
reply
charlie-83
1 hour ago
[-]
Would you be willing to give an example of a typical app/tool like this that you made?
reply
dsmark
13 minutes ago
[-]
reply
discohead
2 hours ago
[-]
“claude fix this tech det”
reply
charlie-83
1 hour ago
[-]
I think the solution here is to just code stuff where AI is not useful. Go write embedded code (not arduino), write a compiler, create a network protocol, write a game that runs on an actual gameboy etc. There are a lot of projects where AI is still of limited use (both silly and actually useful). Obviously, the downside is that all these projects are going to be much harder than "build a todo app" (and possibly require you having experience from doing easier projects first).

I don't think that "just don't use AI" is really a solution here. It can feel really pointless doing something the hard way when you know there is an easy way even if you prefer the hard way.

reply
Nevermark
5 hours ago
[-]
> at least the piano doesn’t autocomplete my scales.

Oh just you wait!

—-

You can get the challenge back by designing something instead of coding it. Lots of wonderfully designed things are not actually that remarkable from the implementation / manufacturing standpoint.

Create a new board game. Completely unchallenging from a coding standpoint, vibe away. But the fast coding steps open up the ability to actually explore and adjust game play in real time. Start by replicating a favorite game.

Create your own organizational software tools. Whatever you would use and other tools dissappointed.

Those are just examples. Go creative on what a thing does, how it looks, etc.

Nintendo’s generations of game hardware are a repeated lesson in great design despite, even because of, modest internals.

reply
NewsaHackO
4 hours ago
[-]
Yea, I never get these types of "AI killed the joy of insert hobby" arguments. By virtue of it being a hobby, I can make the conscious choice not to use AI for it. Really, there should be very few technological advances that can ever kill something that is truly a hobby (for example, people still knit, do metalworking, glassblowing, etc.). Now, if you want to get paid for working inefficiently compared to others, then yes, that will never happen.
reply
jowea
1 hour ago
[-]
There are some people who feel the hobby is meaningless if they know the machine is better at it.

And well, I entered the field professionally because I liked it, and I feel sort of like the rug was pulled under me. Sucks to be one of us I guess.

reply
torlok
56 minutes ago
[-]
Where does it say anything about a hobby? The author is an entrepreneur. They're complaining that they're no longer enjoying a part of their job they used to enjoy, and your contribution is "it's a job, not a hobby, if you don't like it then boo hoo".
reply
ako
5 hours ago
[-]
It reinspired me, the things that i can now pull off with AI would have died a slow death previously. I would have needed to do so much learning, research, debug, i would not have had the patience to complete it. Now i can finally build those things that i never had the time nor patience to do. Currently building my own language, claude code does an excellent job.
reply
a5c11
21 minutes ago
[-]
So... Mindless coding is it? The best part of coding is doing research and learning. Coding, for the pure sake of finishing the project as soon as possible with the least involvement, sounds like doing unpleasant chores.
reply
bitpush
5 hours ago
[-]
So much this. I've written countless shell scripts / clis that does small things that I would not have done before.
reply
ZsoltT
2 hours ago
[-]
coding was never supposed to be fun, it was supposed to be instrumental

you interface with a machine to get the machine to do what you, a human, want it to do relevant to your human purposes

but out of necessity - turns out we need to control a lot of machines - we made the act ergonomic

this fit the aesthetic of some people. All to do with them and little to do with the act. Akin to alchemists or other purveyors of exotic knowledge, the relevance of their skill always had a countdown on it

all that's left is to circle back. Coding is instrumental. Now our alchemy is one more level abstracted from the artifice of the machine. Good. It's closer to people now - like management, now. That's bad for the current generation of alchemist but good for the world

earnest RIP. On the upside, there's always a next generation

reply
RamtinJ95
2 hours ago
[-]
This article makes sense it really does, but its not the full picture. I think there are different modalities to enjoying programming. I wrote a long post about this a couple of months ago that goes way more into detail than I could ever write up in a HN comment. article: https://handmadeoasis.com/ai-and-software-engineering-the-co...
reply
kylehotchkiss
2 hours ago
[-]
Working on projects outside of work (personal blogs are cool again!) helps me enjoy some time away from the LLM.

If you don't have any content for your personal blog, work on that first, find some niche thing to obsess over and have something to say about.

reply
analogpixel
2 hours ago
[-]
This article makes no sense. Just don't use AI and code by hand if that makes you happy.

When I want to stimulate my brain coding, I do things like AOC or Euler, and when I want to test out a quick prototype app I have AI do all the grunt work of setting it up and getting it to a point to see if I even think it's a good idea or not.

reply
ecshafer
2 hours ago
[-]
I write almost all of the code, but I love AI for getting boiler plate out of the way and getting docs. Chatgpt is way faster at giving me a switch statement for all Tif Tags than I could make myself, that's not mentally stimulating code.
reply
a5c11
15 minutes ago
[-]
Maintaining a switch for all possible TIFF tags doesn't sound like a good programming practice, though.
reply
geldedus
1 hour ago
[-]
Sad. For me, AI-assisted coding has brought overhelming new enthusiasm in creating new application
reply
blurbleblurble
23 minutes ago
[-]
Not mine
reply
estimator7292
1 hour ago
[-]
It's been a weird experience for sure. Last week I spent 20 minutes sorting wires while the AI did a refactor that would have taken 2-6 hours by hand.

I'm not sure how I feel about it. On one hand, in certain situations it speeds up my work 10x. On the other, it's way, way too easy to just stop thinking and have the AI iterate on a problem for an hour or two only to end up with utter gibberish, revert everything, and realize the fix was trivial with the slightest application of critical thinking.

I'm certainly a faster programmer with AI, but I'm not sure if I'm any more productive or producing better code instead of just more.

The one thing it's utterly amazing at is my most hated part: going from a blank page to something. Once there's some code and a hint of structure, it's much easier for me to get started.

I will say that I was shocked at how well codex handled "transform this react native typescript into a C++ library". I estimated a week or two of manual refactoring. Codex did it in half an hour (and used 25% of my weekly token budget).

reply
grvdrm
7 hours ago
[-]
> I am no longer solving any mentally-stimulating problems.. I am just copy-pasting code from an AI assistant.

I'm using AI plenty but looking at my use with a different lens. I like to code. It's fun. It's rewarding. I produce things with it. But it is also practically a means to an end for me. My job isn't purely code but also analysis, strategy, etc.

So, having lots of fun zooming through code problems that slowed me down in the past. I have more time for the analysis/strategy/etc.

I'm not a professional dev but I would encourage author to find a similar lens in their work, if possible. Not saying its easy! And if that solution isn't helping or attainable, maybe it's time to move on?

reply
erichocean
2 hours ago
[-]
I've had the exact opposite response: I only enjoy coding now that the AI writes ~100% of the code.
reply
a5c11
10 minutes ago
[-]
I really enjoy doing the dishes now that the dishwasher does ~100% percent of the work.
reply
goatlover
2 hours ago
[-]
Why did you become a developer if you hate writing code?
reply
Pet_Ant
2 hours ago
[-]
I’m guessing the money. I hate working with people with no passion for the craft.
reply
bitwize
25 minutes ago
[-]
I highly, highly recommend a reread of Tim Bryce's 20-year-old essay "Theory P: A Philosophy of Managing Programmers": https://web.archive.org/web/20160407111718fw_/http://phmains...

Mr. Bryce died of cancer a couple years back, and the web site he had up hosting all his materials has since bit-rotted away, so I'm giving you a Wayback link.

Anyhoo, back when it came out, it fomented much discussion and anger among programmers, including here on Hackernews:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=990185

The problem is, Tim Bryce was absolutely, 100% correct. He stood by those words until his dying breath, and he related how programmers would be angry or offended, but management at the companies that employed programmers found the essay to be accurate.

You have to put the "Theory P" essay in broader context. Tim was a management consultant and salesperson for his father Milt, who developed the first software methodology for general commercial use in 1971: PRIDE (Profitable Information by Design). At the time, Milt already had about 20 years of experience in the software field, starting in the UNIVAC days. He was there since the very beginning of commercial computing. Milt discovered that one of the things we learned about LLMs applies to human programmers as well: unless you give them careful guidance, structured and detailed specifications, rigorous standards for how the code should be written, and hold them accountable to those specifications and standards, programmers will go off and develop the wrong thing, wasting the organization's time and money. Unless the programmers know what to build, they're worse than useless. Theory P is more about correcting the overvaluation of programmers from an organizational standpoint; in 2005, organizations particularly in the United States were still under the sway of the myth of the "genius programmer" who could solve the company's problems and make them lots of money if you just left them alone to hack code. This is explicitly not the case; building information systems needs standards, specifications, and process control just like any factory assembly line. (We are still struggling to learn the lessons Milt figured out in 1971. If you have heard of a data dictionary, or a "software bill of materials", those were concepts introduced by PRIDE. They are just two elements to a complete IRM solution.)

In light of this, PRIDE is incredibly comprehensive. The purpose of a methodology is to define WHO is to perform WHAT task, WHERE, WHEN, WHY, and HOW, and most modern "methodologies" fail in that regard; PRIDE defines these essentials organization wide, for everyone involved with an information system (including its users). PRIDE is actually an information systems methodology, not just a software methodology; under PRIDE, writing code is just one of the last technical steps of implementing an information system, which includes software and computers but is not coterminous with them. Business information systems also encompass telecommunications links, pieces of paper such as forms and correspondence, and the most important element: people, and the information they need or provide.

So the hard part of building an information system for an organization, so the Bryces found out, is not programming but systems analysis and design. Consequently, and unsurprisingly, PRIDE is a Big Design Up Front methodology, which makes programmers tetchy—done properly, a PRIDE project spends about 60% of its time in systems analysis and design and only about 15% actually coding. There is some, but not a lot, of room for iteration, but by the time the first line of code has been written the major decisions for how the software—or rather, information system—should function have been made, and not by a programmer. That information is encoded in the extensive documents and flowcharts that have been prepared by the systems analysts and approved by management.

Now enter AI. Tim Bryce also wrote about the maturity of an organization's information systems (https://web.archive.org/web/20160407164521fw_/http://phmains...) in terms of the Before Times, when organizations mainly used paper and ink, to the introduction of the computer in which organizations took a "tool-oriented approach": figuring out what the computer could do and applying it to various tasks without concern for when and how it is properly applied at the organizational level. Mature organizations, by contrast, take a "management-oriented approach", in which the information needs of the business are defined and codified by management, and computers and software are written specifically to address those needs. The problem is that programmers, not systems people, have dominated the information-systems departments of organizations since about the late 1960s, meaning that many of these are stuck in a "tool-oriented approach"! With AI, that last step, the final 15%—actually translating the specifications for the information system into code—can be automated. Most programmers are now obsolete. Nobody cares if you have fun coding; the good times for coders, when they were overvalued to the point of being made linchpins for billion+ dollar businesses, are now over. The relevant skill now becomes understanding what you want to build and laying it out for the AI in sufficient detail—exactly the role of the systems analyst in PRIDE! So, programmers who do not take a "management-oriented approach" and are unwilling to develop the high-level systems thinking and people skills it takes to work at an organizational level and communicate with users and management are going to have a very, very bad time indeed! Unless you have fun designing systems and seeing them rolled out to production, your job is going to be extremely unfun, if not eliminated entirely!

And that would be just fine with Tim Bryce. He hated programmers, and said as much. I'm kind of curious what he would say if he had lived just a few years more into the current era.

reply