Facts: there's abundance of testimony that would secure conviction in court regarding abductions, encounters (of variosu "kinds"), and "multi-sensor data".
Truth is, it goes back centuries, before we could concievably have "RE'd" (reverse-engineered) anything similar. So there has to be something external to our current human civilization (not so surprising, how can you explain how megalithic 100-ton bricks structures were build by "primitives").
Yes, this is "provocative" (perhaps) for some on HN. That's the point. not adversarial, but simply to "provoke" a thought - rather, a question - "what is" the nature of reality? The existence of a "higher"/superior/more technological sentient intelligence interacting with us and our planet is a natural pairing with that question.
Belief is important. Because, your personal experience constitutes, for others, a belief. And that's much of the "evidence" we have.
Trend seems clear in gestalt: disclsoure is coming. So I ask here to take the pulse of this "intellectual/technical/curious/secular" (corase categroties) community. Do you believe this is real? If so, why? If not, why not?
If we were to get "DISCLOSURE" (ie, the "government authroity" of a "respect country" stating unequivocally that the reality of "alien" contact is true) woudl your ontology/worldview be "shattered" or "robust", or "otehr"?
*why so many "airquotes"? I recognize the plurality of meanings and layers of baggage associated with different terms. THe air-quotes are simply a glib nod to such multiplicity. Take as such, s'il vous plais.
Basically this post is to serve as a historical marker for taking the temperature of a significant collective in the "pre-disclosure" era. So this is your chance to record your official viewpoint, before it all comes down. What you say?
I am very interested.
This is hacker news, so big brains going to disagree within their little bubbles, but a great resource for archived media on the topic is the channel "Eyes on Cinema" on YouTube from various news cast and specials since the 40's
There's a really good chance that the speed of light is the universal speed limit. If that's the case, then interstellar travel isn't going to be worth it for resources because the time and energy it takes to do it will almost certainly eclipse what you're going to gain from the trip. Especially if that trip is going to take thousands/millions of years.
The reality is that if you have the energy and resources to move a significant population to another star system, you're going to have to solve permanent space habitation; and if you did that, why the hell do you need to go anywhere?
"Shits and giggles" just doesn't seem like much of a reason to load the next 300 generations of your family into an interstellar RV.
However, what if we try the idea that it's incomplete? That maybe the "warp bubble" is possible? Somehow, spacetime provides a way to use material science to stabilize it and not use enormous energy. Suddenly you are in your own inertial frame, and everything we see as anomalous follows.
I believe basic alien life will be discovered in the next few decades.
I believe it's possible that basic alien life has maybe made it to Earth aboard meteorites.
I do not believe intelligent aliens have visited Earth.
I never saw aliens, alien technology, or evidence thereof in my time in the Nevada desert.
'testimony' as in 'statements from people' should not nearly be enough to convince a court. Pretty sure there are also many testimonies that confirm the existence of trolls, elf's, the devil, reincarnation, angels, big foot, Loch Ness monster, etc.
For me, it comes down to what you think personally. That's the discriminating factor in such an "contested" topic!
The timespan of the whole of Humanity will be just a mere blip in the billions of years the universe will exist.
The universe is unimaginably big.
The spotlight effect is strong here.
> If we were to get "DISCLOSURE" (ie, the "government authroity" of a "respect country" stating unequivocally that the reality of "alien" contact is true) woudl your ontology/worldview be "shattered" or "robust", or "otehr"?
Such disclosure all by itself would mean nothing to me. The evidence, if any, to support the assertion would mean a lot. I don't think it would affect my worldview at all, but that may be one of those "you don't really know unless it happens" things.
There's some kind of a "evidence problem" where we rely on a single-source for "evidence" (the government), while discounting "evidence" from testimony/imagery from rando people (even before AI).
Same time, your point touches a key issue: if you don't have experience yourself, no matter what external "proof", you may not believe it. Which is fine, and valid I think.
Real evidence isn't dependent on the source. It can be evaluated objectively.
> if you don't have experience yourself, no matter what external "proof", you may not believe it. Which is fine, and valid I think.
I disagree, really. This, along with the opposite (believing in things despite the lack of evidence) are both positions rooted in fantasy rather than reality.
However, focusing on a sophist "objective materialism" vs "subjective epistemology" distracts from the core issue: what is happening? and what do you believe?
The opposite, actually.
> what is happening?
I'm not exactly sure how to answer this question because I'm not sure what you're referring to. But taking the question generally, I think what is happening is that people see things they can't identify and are speculating about what they saw. Maybe they saw aliens, maybe not, but it's essentially impossible to tell from the reports themselves.
> and what do you believe?
I believe that I don't know.
However, while aliens might be visiting the Earth, it seems to me that the odds of that being the case are so tiny that "aliens" shouldn't be the first thing we think of.
How can you explain we can today build structures that are 800m tall or reroute rivers?
Honestly, good ol human craftsmanship multiplied by available labour combined with ’basic’ geometry gets you really, really far.
Industrial processes don’t require individual craftmanship because it does not scale with the speed and velocity required by markets and capital. Hence if you don’t actually care about building stuff you may think people unassisted with industrial machinery would be much more incapable than they really are.
Humans are friggin talented.
My opinion is that said structures are made by humans - a function of basic human psychology, times population, time surrounding available resources. You don’t need to add alien intelligences to the equation.
And aliens per your description - not that interested really because it sounds more like religious conspiracy theories than something actually profoun.
I’m pretty sure there’s life out there (i mean basic chemistry right) but I’m not so sure if it’s anything that would travel here intentionally or that it would have anything to say to us.
I would be happy to be wrong! That’s the most interesting outcome always.
I hope they are visiting. And I hope they are smart enough never to provide compelling evidence of their presence.
The most prominent are the greys which are I) extrasolar in origin as they themselves cannot remember which star system they are from, their kind has been wandering for over a million years. II) form our future, they found Earth nuclear annihilate (America and Russia did it, China never had a chance to launch). They came back in time to investigate and change things. They did. That future is no longer possible.
> Facts: there's abundance of testimony that would secure conviction in court regarding abductions, encounters (of variosu "kinds"), and "multi-sensor data".
Abductions are 100% human or lies. The grays have absolutely never “abducted” anyone (they can read both your DNA and your thoughts through the hyperdimensional entanglement of consciousness, they have no need. Before modernity, the simple people they contacted and presented themselves to treated them like they were gods, or spirits from other planes. They don’t “explain” themselves in very much detail as those minds would not understand much. Steve Bannon’s America pretends to fire hellfire missiles at them to convince congress to fund more advanced weapons research.
> Truth is, it goes back centuries, before we could concievably have "RE'd" (reverse-engineered) anything similar. So there has to be something external to our current human civilization (not so surprising, how can you explain how megalithic 100-ton bricks structures were build by "primitives").
Well, that was men with math and engineering tbh. The greys have been around for 10,000 years now and the indigenous glyphs visible from the air have more to do with those.
> Yes, this is "provocative" (perhaps) for some on HN. That's the point. not adversarial, but simply to "provoke" a thought - rather, a question - "what is" the nature of reality?
Word!
> The existence of a "higher"/superior/more technological sentient intelligence interacting with us and our planet is a natural pairing with that question.
Yes, you may not believe this, though there are over 500,000 humans who have the ability to travel around our minds “hyperdimensionally”, and many of them hate the greys for “exposing” their treachery. You’ve heard this before.
> Belief is important. Because, your personal experience constitutes, for others, a belief. And that's much of the "evidence" we have.
Thoughts feelings and beliefs are the enemy of truth, principles, and free humanity. Thoughts feelings and beliefs are an invisible prison for the mind.
> Trend seems clear in gestalt: disclsoure is coming. So I ask here to take the pulse of this "intellectual/technical/curious/secular" (corase categroties) community. Do you believe this is real? If so, why? If not, why not?
More and more parts of the government are being “let in” to this new secret. The real secret is the Americans who have developed this Power to move among minds for lawless purposes. These are convincing the government the aliens are bad. Lawless deceptive Americans are bad.
> If we were to get "DISCLOSURE" (ie, the "government authroity" of a "respect country" stating unequivocally that the reality of "alien" contact is true) woudl your ontology/worldview be "shattered" or "robust", or "otehr"?
I laugh at you. They’re nice, pacifist (thank whichever God you believe in.) the real story is Power, to navigate minds and create hyperdimensional inner worlds through the technology of consciousness. That is bad ass.
> *why so many "airquotes"?
What is that?
> Basically this post is to serve as a historical marker for taking the temperature of a significant collective in the "pre-disclosure" era. So this is your chance to record your official viewpoint, before it all comes down. What you say?
They actually communicate with many thousands of modern people (through our minds, even our dreams.) they’re really worried about us, though their time frames are in the hundreds or thousands of years, human lives go by for them in a blink (although the greys don’t blink, they don’t have eye lids.)
> I am very interested.
You know what they say about the cat!
> the "government authroity" of a "respect country" stating unequivocally that the reality of "alien" contact is true
Stating the existence of aliens is not unequivocal or based in reality, even if a government does it. Don't forget that Russia claimed to cure cancer a few years ago, we've yet to see how unequivocally true that is in reality.