Physicists prove the Universe isn't a simulation after all
13 points
2 hours ago
| 7 comments
| sciencedaily.com
| HN
DangitBobby
44 minutes ago
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Ah, no. At best they prove that we can't simulate our own universe. They don't prove ours isn't simulated or that other, higher fidelity simulations can't simulate similar ones.
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rurban
6 minutes ago
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Gödel disapproves. Tipler’s Omega Point ditto
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jqpabc123
1 hour ago
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"But since the fundamental level of reality is based on non-algorithmic understanding, the universe cannot be, and could never be, a simulation."

The same may apply to "intelligence" --- aka AGI.

As far as I know, there is no proof that AGI can be produced or simulated by a binary logic algorithm running on a finite computer.

Hence, some people support the idea of "emergence" --- aka alchemy, aka PFM --- Pure Friggin Magic.

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daymanstep
1 hour ago
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You can achieve human level intelligence if you can simulate a human brain with sufficient fidelity
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jqpabc123
19 minutes ago
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This is exactly what some people (Musk for example) thought about the universe --- it could be a computer simulation.

These physicists say they have *mathematical* proof that this is not possible.

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Libidinalecon
21 minutes ago
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We don't even know if this is true. See Peter Hacker's Mereological Fallacy
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Avicebron
56 minutes ago
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Do you have anything supporting this?

What level of granularity of fidelity are you referring to?

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armchairhacker
42 minutes ago
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What's the difference between a simulation and a non-simulation? Nothing, except where the simulation can be broken.

Can we accurately simulate a smaller universe in this universe? If I understand correctly, according to this paper the answer is "no". Except how do we determine the simulation is inaccurate, without either knowing what is accurate (and thus having a correct simulation), or being unable to distinguish the inaccuracy from randomness (the simulation already won't perfectly predict a small part of the real universe due to such randomness, so you can't point to a discrepancy)? What does it mean for a simulation to be “inaccurate”?

Also, you don't need to simulate the entire universe to effectively simulate it for one person, e.g. put them in a VR world. From that person's perspective, both scenarios are the same.

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p1esk
1 hour ago
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"We have demonstrated that it is impossible to describe all aspects of physical reality using a computational theory of quantum gravity," says Dr. Faizal. "Therefore, no physically complete and consistent theory of everything can be derived from computation alone. Rather, it requires a non-algorithmic understanding, which is more fundamental than the computational laws of quantum gravity and therefore more fundamental than spacetime itself."

Seems like quantum gravity theory might be missing something, no?

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_tk_
2 hours ago
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That’s exactly what would happen in a simulation.
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beardyw
1 hour ago
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But the folks running the simulation don't realise they are in a simulation.
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andsoitis
1 hour ago
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What do you mean?
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stfp
56 minutes ago
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Let’s assume it’s simulations all the way down and we exist in plane P=n. The question is are we at n=0.

Looks like this result says we can’t simulate our plane in a computer. But the stuff in that simulation exists in P=n+1. So maybe the conclusion is “you can’t simulate n from within n+1” which means we can’t simulate our own plane, let alone our potential parent, and doesn’t mean we don’t have one

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yawpitch
1 hour ago
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Ok, but the simulation could easily have been written to include an adjunct professor at UBC’s much-less-well-known Okanagan campus who isn’t actually that great at Gödeling.
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