Screenshots from developers: 2002 vs. 2015 (2015)
169 points
4 hours ago
| 13 comments
| anders.unix.se
| HN
accrual
5 minutes ago
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This is really fascinating, I would love to see a 2025 version from those willing to respond.

All of the screenshots strike me as "get things done". Little flourish, just windows and text mode apps where needed to finish the day's task. To me, an ideal to aspire to.

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gentooflux
2 hours ago
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RMS could have taken a photo of his screen, or done something cheeky like dump his screen to a padded ASCII text file and submitted that. Stick in the mud.
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ekjhgkejhgk
2 hours ago
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"I don't know how to make a screenshot" - what a fucking star.
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jsk2600
2 hours ago
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This is the guy who is 'browsing' web using wget+email afterall:

> For personal reasons, I do not browse the web from my computer. (I also have not net connection much of the time.) To look at page I send mail to a demon which runs wget and mails the page back to me. It is very efficient use of my time, but it is slow in real time.

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krackers
1 hour ago
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This makes sense if you want to reject the modern web, but using lynx or w3m would work as well. But if you generally want to champion free software and put the "personal" in PC, then I think you necessarily need to familiarize yourself with modern computing or else you can't really have a good opinion on it.

For instance, if you refuse to play around with LLMs out of some dogmatic reason that they're not "truly" open (note: I don't know what his true opinions are), then you risk completely missing the boat and can't meaningfully shape the space of modern discourse.

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ekjhgkejhgk
1 hour ago
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No, you don't know what the reasons are. You're assuming he just wants to avoid graphical interfaces. That might not be the reason. In fact, I suspect that it has to do privacy, where lynx won't help you.
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krackers
1 hour ago
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What is the privacy leak vector using lynx? It does not use JS, so I'm not sure how running wget on another server is better than lynx over ssh or mosh?
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ekjhgkejhgk
1 hour ago
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I don't know, we're both speculating. I'm just advising against "oh he could just as well do X" - you don't know.
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shevy-java
1 hour ago
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It is a strange answer because I use an alias to a ruby script ("shot") which just wraps imagemagick mostly. So I don't understand the "I don't know how to make a screenshot" part of RMS really. He seems to never fully understood why python or ruby are useful.
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rightbyte
2 hours ago
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Ye I need more pure hearted dogmatism in my life such that I can say that and don't lie. Have some secretary send me webpages with obfuscated JS by fax when I need to sin.
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ekjhgkejhgk
1 hour ago
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I get that you're being sarcastic, but I actually think the world would be a kinder place if we had more of Stallman's flavor of pure hearted dogmatism.
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DonHopkins
1 hour ago
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I bet he knows how to make a Lisp Machine screenshot.
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gentooflux
36 minutes ago
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I bet he knows how but still won't
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nighthawk454
2 hours ago
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On the contrary, I think that was a wonderful answer and reflects the POV well. Hard to imagine something more Stallman-esque!
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zvmaz
33 minutes ago
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"I don't know how to make a screenshot"

Linus Torvalds often says that he does know how to do X (like install a Linux distribution, or other simple stuff). I wager that it's a status thing.

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DANmode
2 hours ago
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He’s…something.
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bigyabai
2 hours ago
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The Trisquel website has some screenshots. The 7.0 LTS is from 2014 so it's likely he was probably running something like this: https://trisquel.info/en/7.0-screenshots
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apetresc
2 hours ago
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I completely misread '2015' as '2025' and thought these were from this November rather than November 10 years ago. I couldn't believe so many people were still using what appeared to be Aqua-era OS X.
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sho_hn
52 minutes ago
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Same for me, until I got to Bram.
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Almondsetat
2 hours ago
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RMS to me is really a curious case. He doesn't know how to install GNU+Linux and relies on others to do it. He doesn't know how to take a screenshot, and I remember reading other snippets from him about not knowing how to perform other basic tasks.
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adalacelove
32 minutes ago
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Most screenshots for these well known guys are quite boring. Coincidence? I think if you want to be good at something you need focus.
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venturecruelty
1 hour ago
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I don't know why people take him so seriously. He said some decent things about software freedom, and the rest of his entire existence seems to be him being deliberately obtuse and generally off-putting. I find it bizarre that there's this strange carve-out here for him, especially considering that he would absolutely loathe 99% of the software that gets discussed here.
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GuB-42
55 minutes ago
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RMS is an extremist, and not the kind of person I tend to agree with, he seems to be a bit of an asshole too...

But that's also the kind of people we need. Companies are not going to compromise on their profits, we need someone to balance that and not compromise on software freedom. With these two extremes we can take an balanced position and that's how we got Linux and distros like Debian: it is free software, but it is also pragmatic. If we only had pure GNU (HURD), we wouldn't get far, but if we didn't have GNU at all, it would be even worse.

Richard Stallman didn't just talk. He actually wrote code, famously Emacs, and started the whole GNU project. I am not aware of recent technical contributions though.

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munificent
1 hour ago
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> He said some decent things about software freedom

Well, he also created GCC and GNU Emacs.

Linux and the idea that developer tools should be free wouldn't exist without him.

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chemotaxis
33 minutes ago
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I think that sort of goes hand-in-hand. "Normal", well-rounded don't decide that software licensing is the most important thing in the world and don't devote their entire life to that. A normal person would be content with a 9-to-5 software engineering job at Sun, IBM, or Microsoft.

I think you see that with a lot of other revolutionaries. They often take unreasonable positions and behave in unreasonable ways. RMS' tragedy is probably that his side more or less won, so now he's just a weirdo without a cause.

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gosub100
1 hour ago
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See also: Knuth. Literally wrote the book on algorithms, but barely is able to do more than open a window in FVWM.
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clra
53 minutes ago
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Can you cite this in some way? Given he's shown the competence to write and typeset an impressive series of books, I find this claim pretty hard to believe.
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Retr0id
2 hours ago
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Linus Torvalds currently uses Fedora with GNOME, which was fun to learn because that's also been my personal choice for a while now.

(source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfv0V1SxbNA )

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sho_hn
51 minutes ago
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He seems to switch every half-decade or so. Waiting for his next KDE era :-)
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quantumfissure
2 hours ago
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It's been well known for awhile now that it's his preferred setup.

He seems to want as much stability as possible; while being as minimal as possible; with as little fuss to install and keep up to date as possible. Fedora meets those needs. Gnome is Fedora's main concentration.

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jsk2600
2 hours ago
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He explained that in the linked video - Fedora makes it easy for him to test custom kernel builds.
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Retr0id
2 hours ago
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Oh I didn't know Gnome was the official flavour now, last time I paid attention it was still KDE
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quantumfissure
1 hour ago
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It's been a long, long time. I think Red Hat 8/9 (from 2002-2003) had a default KDE build. Even in Fedora Core 1 Gnome was default.

Now, there's a separate build to download for KDE. It's likely because Gnome is default install for Red Hat Enterprise Workstation.

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loeg
1 hour ago
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I don't think it's ever been KDE.
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sho_hn
50 minutes ago
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Indeed. In fact, only recently the Fedora KDE version was elevated to "Edition" status and is now on the same tier as the Gnome version.

Most newer popular distros (Bazzite, CachyOS, Zorin, Asahi, etc.) default to KDE now, and it's very nice that Fedora's not only keeping up, but also providing the basis for some of them.

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loeg
16 minutes ago
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I've been very pleased with KDE on Fedora for the past ~five years.
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Retr0id
25 minutes ago
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It seems you're right, and now I'm wondering how I ever thought otherwise...
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loeg
18 minutes ago
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No worries. I started using Fedora around the 4-5 timeframe and am still using it 40 editions later -- time flies. To my memory, it's always been GNOME-first.
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WD-42
2 hours ago
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He said also because fedora seemed the most amenable to running custom kernels which is basically what he does all day.
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nurettin
39 minutes ago
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Which is weird, I've compiled and ran custom kernels and modules on debian before fedora 1.0 iso was announced on freenode/#fedora and it wasn't even good.
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preisschild
2 hours ago
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Yeah mine too (but using Silverblue).

After spending years with Arch/NixOS/Ubuntu/Sway Im quite happy with Fedora+GNOME now. It just works.

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jasoneckert
2 hours ago
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I echo this. My desktop has stayed virtually unchanged for decades, and in retrospect, it explains why I use the Sway tiling window manager today.
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climb_stealth
1 hour ago
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Hah, If you ask my partner, I've been looking at the same screen for years and years
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Zambyte
2 hours ago
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What are you echoing?
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jsk2600
2 hours ago
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Mostly tiling WMs and terminals
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ekjhgkejhgk
1 hour ago
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Hey this one over here [1] has a virtual desktop minimap on the top right. That person mentions fvwm which has this [2] website with screenshots, but I don't see the minimap there. Could someone help me find a reference to it?

Update: Also on the bottom left here [3]

[1] https://anders.unix.se/images/desktop_warren_toomey.gif

[2] https://www.fvwm.org/

[3] https://anders.unix.se/images/desktop_jordan_hubbard.jpg

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arexxbifs
1 hour ago
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The one in the FVWM screenshot is FvwmPager. It comes with FVWM.
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ekjhgkejhgk
1 hour ago
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So I can't just use it by itself. E.g. I use i3wm, would those work together? Sorry if it's a stupid question.
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vzaliva
2 hours ago
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common theme: tiled layout, terminals, minimum fancy decorations.
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omnicognate
2 hours ago
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And that hasn't changed much since. At work and at home, I'm usually looking at emacs with no tab or menu bar, full screen on all monitors, with everything else (browser, etc) a virtual desktop switch away: exwm at home, one terminal emacsclient in ssh per monitor with a single daemon on linux server (accessed from Windows) at work. With many minor variations this is how my desktop has looked since my first programming job, which coincidentally was in 2002, but the details of the setup have changed a lot. The bit that has remained constant is that all I want on my monitor(s) when I'm programming is code.

Edit: Probably the most visible change is better fonts and font rendering.

Edit 2: To expand on "all I want is code": let's say there is a menu bar with maybe 10 menus and 100 or so items, and a project navigator thingy, and a compiler output window. I would much rather these things not take up permanent space on my screen. Every one of them shows information/commands that I can access with a key combination and in some cases some fuzzy completion after hitting a key combination. Any decent editor can do this and you can learn it in an afternoon, and if you're going to spend the next couple of decades in front of it it's worth getting rid of the pixels permanently allocated to advertising "you can do this thing".

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ajross
2 hours ago
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I think I see only one truly tiled layout. But yes, "terminals and editors" as the core developer workflow is extremely conserved over time. It dates from the mid 80's on Sun 2's and really hasn't changed much in four decades.

It's probably not worth arguing whether this is the "best" when compared with vscode+LSP+Claude or whatever happens to be en vogue in the moment.

But terminals and editors is sticky in a way that tells me it's probably close to optimal. Those of us in the cult aren't observed to leave the compound except in extremely rare circumstances. I'll be doing the same stuff on my death bed, likely.

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bigstrat2003
1 hour ago
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> But terminals and editors is sticky in a way that tells me it's probably close to optimal.

Optimal for those users, at any rate. IMO using a terminal editor is so painful compared to a decent GUI (Sublime or even VSCode) that I have a difficult time understanding why anyone would choose such a tool. I just try to repeat the mantra of "everyone likes different things" and stop trying to understand something where I likely never will get it.

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someguyiguess
55 minutes ago
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It’s funny. I thought the same thing before taking the time to become familiar with VIM keybindings and now I find VS Code tedious and painfully slow.
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markus_zhang
26 minutes ago
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I guess once one gets used to it or anything it’s going to be more productive than the rest of the tools.
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lieuwex
2 hours ago
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Mistletoe
18 minutes ago
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I'd give anything to see their 2025 desktops.
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shevy-java
1 hour ago
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Interesting how Brian works. I guess it is the UNIX spirit he carries there. Or perhaps he is damn fast with the tabbed WM. Or is that OSX?

I use mostly IceWM these days. I can't use the leaner WMs such as ion or ratpoison and XFCE, mate-desktop, KDE and GNOME are too slow or too crap (KDE unfortunately also now; before that only GNOME was crap. KDE killing xorg-support also means it is one less thing I can use anyway.)

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sho_hn
47 minutes ago
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Out of curiosity, why's xorg a blocker for you?
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pelagicAustral
2 hours ago
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Old macOS has got so much soul. I missed all those years since I started working with it back when Sierra was around, clearly not the same.
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tylerflick
1 hour ago
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If you want a macOS/OS X release with soul, check out Snow Leopard.
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chickensong
1 hour ago
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Haha love that jerkcity is featured in Jordan's screenshot!
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DonHopkins
1 hour ago
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Jordan's the rapscallion who scribbled all over Dennis G. Perry's Interleaf windows (program manager of the Arpanet in the Information Science and Technology Office of DARPA) with his infamous global rwall on March 31, 1987.

Milo Medin said "Dennis was absolutely livid, and I recall him saying something about shutting off UCB's PSN ports if this happened again."

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31822138

    From: Milo S. Medin <medin@orion.arpa>
    Date: Apr 6, 1987, 5:06 AM

    Actually, Dennis Perry is the head of DARPA/IPTO, not a pencil pusher
    in the IG's office.  IPTO is the part of DARPA that deals with all
    CS issues (including funding for ARPANET, BSD, MACH, SDINET, etc...).
    Calling him part of the IG's office on the TCP/IP list probably didn't
    win you any favors.  Coincidentally I was at a meeting at the Pentagon
    last Thursday that Dennis was at, along with Mike Corrigan (the man
    at DoD/OSD responsible for all of DDN), and a couple other such types
    discussing Internet management issues, when your little incident
    came up.  Dennis was absolutely livid, and I recall him saying something
    about shutting off UCB's PSN ports if this happened again.  There were
    also reports about the DCA management types really putting on the heat
    about turning on Mailbridge filtering now and not after the buttergates
    are deployed.  I don't know if Mike St. Johns and company can hold them
    off much longer.  Sigh...  Mike Corrigan mentioned that this was the sort
    of thing that gets networks shut off.  You really pissed off the wrong
    people with this move! 

    Dennis also called up some VP at SUN and demanded this hole
    be patched in the next release.  People generally pay attention
    to such people.

                                            Milo
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