"Control" would not be a better argument with them. Everything is already controlled. What amazon, google, youtube, facebook, instagram, tiktok, netflix, spotify, recommend to you is all controlled. Various insurance (health, car, etc) is relatively controlled. Through an employeer you usually get health insurance. If you're self or un-employed they require, or did require, extensive health info before they would let you sign up.
And, I'm not entirely sure I disgree with that. Why should my premiums be higher because someone else wants to participate in risky behavior?
Like many here I go though lots of trouble to stay anon. VPNs, multiple unrelated browser profiles, multiple browsers, never use the same email address twice, differnt passwords, etc.... But I can't really think of a truely compelling reason to to give to my family why they should do anything similar.
I can mention things like the girl who's parents discovered she was pregnent when advertisers started sending her baby care ads. But, that's just not relevant to them.
I took a look at this curated list of bank apps[1] supported on Graphene OS and I'm glad that a large majority of them work on Graphene. However, just my luck that one of the banks I use on this list isn't supported.
In my country, the state is enforcing a lot of essential workflows to be digital-first (and in extreme cases digital-exclusive) and I dread to think needing these services at a critical moment and the choice of my OS making it impossible for me. This is more of a commentary on my government's choices but it's a reality for me.
In any case, I don't think it's practical to go cold turkey and switch to a privacy focused phone without testing waters first to see which of your of workflows break and then reason about the tradeoffs/workarounds.
I do admire folks who use GrapheneOS as a daily driver, I'd like to chat them up if I find them in the wild.
https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compa...
If my country did this I would get a cheap used device for this purpose and keep it powered off. I refuse to carry a pocket spy for the sake of convenience. I find that it’s rarely an issue.
I do have older Android devices that I have run banking apps on, that I can revert to if necessary, but there's a fair bit of inconvenience I would be happy to endure to avoid being forced into that final option.
What I would recommend is a slow transition, and just start using it at home. If you have GrapheneOS on it's most paranoid settings (exploit protections) there will be exceptions you'll need to allow for a few apps.
Things like Apple/Google Wallet aren’t significantly superior to a contactless credit/debit card.
About the only bank thing I can think of that actually requires an app is check deposit, which is super rare.
I do have a second Android device with a stock ROM that I keep turned off in a drawer in case I ever need to use an app that requires Play Integrity in an emergency.
The Play Integrity shenanigans is mostly on app developers.
That said, good thing GrapheneOS will launch its own Android phone: https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/27687-new-manufacturer-theo... / https://piunikaweb.com/2025/10/13/grapheneos-ending-pixel-ex... / https://www.androidauthority.com/grapheneos-phone-wait-or-bu...
Provided GrapheneOS is cleared by Google to launch it as an "Android" device. Given the kind of changes GrapheneOS packs, it may or may not meet Android's mandatory CCD (compatibility) requirements.
I completely agree, but as a user I'm the victim of the developers choice.
Note that I don't use banking or government apps. If I bank online it's via the web.
A) These apps have implemented only the check so far, and will eventually refuse to run or limit functionality at some point in the future.
B) These apps have noted the failure and certain functionality, especially communicating with servers to load "protected" content, will fail even if the app otherwise continues to run.
But fine, I'll be the one to say it: Cloudflare isn't one of the good guys here and as an entity it shouldn't be trusted. It doesn't matter how pure their stated motives appear to be now, or how unmarred their track record is so far. It's a corporation that has control over an ever-increasing share of internet infrastructure, and is susceptible to the same risks as any other tech monopolist basket that we all decide to put our eggs in. Maybe more risky than the others, given how deep in the stack its influence is buried.
What happens when a government forces it to NXDOMAIN porn or put nuisance captchas in front of dissident blogs? Is there some reason people think this one is different?
I 100% agree, any entity with a significantly large control of the internet cannot be trusted. And the lower in the stack the smaller the control portion needed for distrust.
Came here to say the same thing, post was interesting until I got to that point.
> nuisance captchas
Try using the internet outside of the western world and major hubs. Cloudflare make it so painful with captchas and browser integrity checks
Fantastic. This is what I have been shifting towards these past couple years. Hardly anyone likes to be controlled, right?
Until they've been burned by unspoken realities of not owning some piece of their own digital lives, most people will continue to prefer being tenants, rather than owners.
Technology is only the most recent domain in which we can observe the human tendency to prefer the short term, incurious ease and license not to think that tenancy provides over the long term, ongoing work and thorough understanding that ownership demands. To become an owner you need some deeper intrinsically cultivated reason to desire it.
In the past I dropped off privacy when it was too inconvenient. For example I dropped protonmail because of bad search, left Linux desktop for Windows due to missing software, etc, I still haven't found the sweet spot for LLMs yet.
For the rest, I'm currently running the full macOS, iOS, safari, Apple passwords and I'm decently happy with this middle ground.
Yes, the only solution is self-hosting and yes it requires being your own sysadmin and it’s hard and not convenient. That’s why I’m building https://github.com/ibizaman/selfhostblocks. It’s a NixOS collection of modules that sets up services that fit well together and have declarative setup for LDAP and SSO. They have integrated backups, https and other features required for self-hosting. Also, the LDAP and SSO setup is tested with e2e NixOS VM tests that use playwright to make sure users can login if they have access.
I’m hoping to lower the bar to self-hosting significantly.
This one is pretty easy to counter. Just ask the person to hand you their phone and go through their messages and photos. There's no one that wouldn't feel restless about it.
Ask them for their children's names and the school they go to.
Ask them their mothers maiden name, their first pets name, and they street name they lived on as a child.
Ask to film them going about their job (if they're law enforcement).
Ask them for a copy of their bank statement.
Ask to see their browsing history.
Ask for a key to their house.
Or, why do you get your mail in an envelope? I can see that it is your financial statements.
Why do you have curtains on your home? I can go to Zillow and see the interior of your house from years ago.
I really dislike that this is always the argument that's being attacked. It's not even what most people are thinking when they respond.
It's clear that the exchange is privacy for effort. If I want to self host, I need to pay time and money to get it all working, then continue to maintain it forever.
I'm looking for a nice tool that would give me that "control" over my home network -- at the very least, proper observability. Like "little snitch / open snitch" but running on my home router... and I haven't found anything like that yet.
The author fails to mention that they are currently working at Cloudflare, I think that should be made clear otherwise I see it as misleading to the reader, like so many pointed it out, Cloudflare is just a corporation like any other corporation out there...
Never host your own email. It’s a nightmare if legacy systems, edge cases, layered on trust systems, malicious actors, and endless spam. It’s a good way to spend a bunch of time and effort making sure most of your mail never gets delivered.
I host a few of my own domain emails using mailu (a system of docker containers), but not my primary (so I'm slightly hypocritical). It's a certain amount of hassle, but as long as you do the SPF and DKIM things, it seems to work pretty well for me (in the limited amount that I use these domains for email).
side note, your link to Tuta is broken - think it's an internal link by accident
You could also run Google Maps web through Tor if needed. Tor is easy to use on Android.
It reached the level of being usable for general population and it improves rapidly due to gained momentum.
I thought there was only a couple of us.
> Tech enthusiasts: My entire house is smart.
> Tech workers: The only piece of technology in my house is a printer and I keep a gun next to it so I can shoot it if it makes a noise I don't recognize.
Gave it up a while ago, for:
Librefox on the linux device.
Waterfox on the android device.
Orion on the APP£ device.
Librefox hasn't been updated since 2019:
Well, they don't today.
Speaking of "control", it is bad form to keep both the nameservers and registrar with the same company (think takedown requests / account lockout / etc).
It's a very naive way of thinking about some businesses. What did Cloudflare do to earn this trust? It's just another VC-backed company and 1.1.1.1 is a free service. So Cloudflare is going to lose money just to protect my privacy? I don't think so.
dude who wrote the article works for Cloudflare. I'd say receiving a paycheck is a pretty good way to earn trust
It's just DNS. I'd say using cloudflare DNS is a step up from whatever the ISP's default DNS is. But if you're hawkish on Cloudflare, just use something else. There are plenty of good options
on one hand its being relative to a list of specific threat actors you avoid. on the other, its maintaining a role with leverage vs your devices and services.
privacy doesnt catch on as product because you have to navigate an inferior relationship to those threat actors first, and nobody aspires to that unless they already have a kind of alt cyberpunk underdog mentality and attitude.
the non-punk or normal, leveraged position is like a business or first class lounge for tech. calm, negotiable, amenable, hidden and exclusive power, craft, affiliation and signalling.
most privacy tech and apps are still in the mall ninja cyberpunk mentality, with some slightly self important NGO/public sector affilation signalling with Signal. The aesthetics of privacy need to evolve to drive more meaningful tech imo.
The future is suckless philosophy.
- WhatsApp is an exception
For others
- Google is an exception