> The O-1 category includes the O-1A, which is designated for individuals with extraordinary ability in the sciences, education, business or athletics and the O-1B, reserved for those with “extraordinary ability or achievement”.
Then later it says
> The O-1B visa, once reserved for Hollywood titans and superstar musicians, has evolved over the years.
I understand those two aren't necessarily contradictory, but the wording of the first sentence paints a very different mental picture than the second one (at least it did for me), especially since they throw in the O-1A and then almost exclusively talk about people applying for the O-1B after that.
Personally, I don't want the US choosing to give visas to influencers over scientists, but if this visa was already being heavily used to bring in actors, musicians, and athletes I don't see what the hubbub is about. I don't use TikTok or OnlyFans and I don't find e-sports entertaining, but I have a hard time arguing that a screen actor, Victoria's Secret model, or soccer player should be worthy of a visa and a social media star, OnlyFans model, or a professional Counter Strike player shouldn't is not. It's all just entertainment.
Also this visa in uncapped so giving visas to OF models does not take away anything from scientists and others.
O visa's original intent was to help pretty ladies from Eastern Europe to be brought into the country as indentured workers. That is why it is so easy to get this visa for an actor or a fashion model but very tough to get someone for their research.
So all this is working as intended.
As one said in a quote, regarding AI threat and crumbling economies: "The oldest profession will be the last profession."
If some of them want to move to the US right now, from currently healthier countries, one reason may be that social inequality means there are many deep-pocketed customers able to pay 5 figures for a weekend experience.
Those who come to the US with enough money on the bank will have access to a lifestyle and experiences that are becoming more and more exclusive, which makes for great content for the peasant class to consume on their phones.
Those at the top are doing very well, it's those without access to capital who are struggling. America in decline looks like a bifurcated economy where low-paying jobs catering to the desires of the wealthy take up an increasingly large share of the economy. You can decide for yourself to what extent this is already happening.
Eg. a self-reinforcing cycle that you get the best from the other immigrant categories arriving because they choose the country where everything "seems to be happening".
From what I understand about OF, it's not just people posting lewds, sometimes there are other actors in the media.
Having access to established actors and uh... "collaborating" with them would require being there in person I would guess.
For there to be a special sex worker visa is a surprise, to me.
[1] https://www.pace-society.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/3194...
These days I wouldn't even be surprised to discover it was intentional. Some person or group wanted to ensure they could engage in sex trafficking with a superficially legal cover, but didn't want it to actually be legal.
Well Streamer vs Influencer can be different potentially, that said I can think of one example even for video game streamers, that being the AGDQ charity event where speedrunners/streamers do stuff live for charity at the event space.
An OnlyFans worker may make the bulk of her money by meeting fans in person for dates. That can't be done over the internet.
(i) is coming to the United States solely, principally, or incidentally to engage in prostitution, or has engaged in prostitution within 10 years of the date of application for a visa, admission, or adjustment of status,
(ii) directly or indirectly procures or attempts to procure, or (within 10 years of the date of application for a visa, admission, or adjustment of status) procured or attempted to procure or to import, prostitutes or persons for the purpose of prostitution, or receives or (within such 10-year period) received, in whole or in part, the proceeds of prostitution, or
(iii) is coming to the United States to engage in any other unlawful commercialized vice, whether or not related to prostitution
Obviously these people should be applying for EB-1s since that is the established visa program for prostitutes.
Both would build brand, but I’d imagine making it big on OF streamer has a much higher cap than making it big as an escort.
https://www.pathlawgroup.com/o1b-visa-requirements/
For all other candidates, at least three of the following criteria must be met in order to qualify for the O1B visa:
Having been or will be performing a lead or starring role in productions or events which have a distinguished national or international reputation (as evidenced by critical reviews, advertisements, press releases, publications contracts, or endorsements)
Critical reviews or other published material in professional or major trade publications or in the major media by or about the applicant which show that the applicant has achieved national or international recognition or achievements
Evidence of performance in a lead, starring or critical role for organizations or establishments with distinguished reputations
Evidence of a record of major commercial or critically acclaimed successes in the performing arts, as shown by box office receipts or record, cassette, compact disk, or video sales
Evidence of significant recognition for achievements from organizations, government agencies, or other recognized experts in the field
Evidence of having commanded a high salary or other significantly high remuneration for services in relation to others
Other comparable evidence (This category is not available for those in the motion picture industry)
For an influencer... some number of anonymous followers?
There are certainly some that would qualify... but it they should be held to the same standards as others.
Their visa application content is rather silly/absurd:
https://www.tiktok.com/@boy.throb/video/7572273147743980831
- Evidence of a record of major commercial or critically acclaimed successes in the performing arts, as shown by box office receipts or record, cassette, compact disk, or video sales
- Evidence of significant recognition for achievements from organizations, government agencies, or other recognized experts in the field
- Evidence of having commanded a high salary or other significantly high remuneration for services in relation to others
You might be shocked to find out how much the performers being written about in magazines or discussed on TV shows is a direct line to the production company promoting them. Similar for awards.
> > advertisements, press releases, publications contracts, or endorsements
> > box office receipts or record, cassette, compact disk, or video sales
> > Evidence of having commanded a high salary or other significantly high remuneration for services in relation to others
I fail to see the distinction you are trying to draw. Commercial value and celebrity has always been one of the metrics of "achievement".
The overall gist is that the visa application should be someone who is not easily replaced by an existing local worker that can generate similar value.
8 CFR 214.2(o)(3) ( https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-8/part-214/section-214.2#... )
Extraordinary ability in the field of arts means distinction. Distinction means a high level of achievement in the field of arts evidenced by a degree of skill and recognition substantially above that ordinarily encountered to the extent that a person described as prominent is renowned, leading, or well-known in the field of arts.
Extraordinary ability in the field of science, education, business, or athletics means a level of expertise indicating that the person is one of the small percentage who have arisen to the very top of the field of endeavor.
Extraordinary achievement with respect to motion picture and television productions, as commonly defined in the industry, means a very high level of accomplishment in the motion picture or television industry evidenced by a degree of skill and recognition significantly above that ordinarily encountered to the extent that the person is recognized as outstanding, notable, or leading in the motion picture or television field.
This isn't a local worker thing (the H visas) but rather bringing the best and brightest from across the world to the United States.
https://www.hio.harvard.edu/o-1-visa-individuals-extraordina...
> The O-1 visa is a temporary work visa designated for individuals who have achieved and sustained national or international acclaim for extraordinary ability in the sciences, arts, education, business or athletics, or individuals who have demonstrated a record of extraordinary achievement in the motion picture and television industries.
> O-1 Extraordinary Ability visa status is reserved for those who are among the small percentage of experts who have risen to the top of their field. The approval of an O-1 petition by the United States Citizenship & Immigration Services (USCIS) decides whether an individual qualifies for O-1 classification. This classification requires a substantial amount of evidence. The O-1 is a very complicated visa category subject to high levels of scrutiny by the U.S. government. Due to the complexity, the O-1 visa is used very infrequently.
When someone describes themselves as an "influencer", it is entirely appropriate to ask what sort of influence they're having, and whether we want that.
Also, it’s going to take more than a few thousand immigrants a year to affect the culture of a country as populous as America.
I actually worked in the adult industry earlier in my career so have a better insight than most. and I can tell you that these models are just normal people like you an I. They aren’t interested in corrupting your children nor throwing wild sex parties in public spaces.
It turns out that American citizens can work in the adult industry too and it’s not just immigrants who are capable of earning money from getting naked on camera. ;)
> Why should the government use antiquated-at-best moral codes to discriminate against people who will increase the global influence of the country
this is a very loaded statement that assumes that everyone is in agreement that proliferating and rewarding cam models is some kind of inherent good. there's nothing antiquated morally with simply not rewarding it. i'm not stating to ban it outright. there's always use in it at the long tail of society
I don't think the same would apply to OF or porn. Totally different things.
Edit: And sure It's concerning that the society being shallow but OF and porn are just consequences not the cause. Without them we would have something else to turn important human experience(ie sex) into a commercial show and twisted it. Turn humans into tradable goods. Body commodification is just moral decay and the end of civilization! I think we already have such a thing called ... sports? Edit: professional sports
Sports is hard work, discipline, drive, often starting as a kid.
In actuality, both require you to sell your body, and both can have long standing health effects. If anything, I would say the typical OF model sells their body much less than an athlete. I mean, I don't think they're going to tear their ACL.
And also, both offer no real tangible value to humanity. Sports do not produce anything, neither does porn, they're purely for entertainment. A cashier at McDonalds is providing more absolute value to the world than even the most esteemed athlete.
That's not to say that athletes are bad, entertainment and games are important. But you can't just say one form of mindless entertainment is more valuable than another form.
I don't know if you'd want to marry a porn star, and if not, that should tell you what he difference is. This is one of those things which is "freedom" in theory but has many second order effects in practice.
The point is either reject all of them or treat them all equally.
The neat part is, with social media and global internet, culture are generally degenerating regardless of countries. If I were American citizen(gladly Im not) I might as well just let them in to get some tax money, and potentially see if the industry can be used as a soft propaganda machine. Just like Hollywood.
You say "We should encourage X over Y" and the retorts are
* "Y will still exist"
* "Y can still be encouraged separately"
* "You should tell me the difference between X and Y"
* "Hey, I found an X that sometimes acts vaguely similar to Y!"
The third one is a classic, the straw man. A concise implication of error in which a good-faith response would be long-winded and boring comparatively.
To what end?
What are they hoping to get out of disagreeing with someone trying to encouraging our future culture to be one of relative wholesomeness?
... Why take the time out of one's day to say "well... encouraging X is great and all but you know what's better? passive-aggressively working against anyone that suggests it."?
The original poster was clearly not making an analogy between professional soccer and only fans creators.
To be explicit, the comparisons were:
Cinematic actors -> TikTok creators
Victoria’s Secret model -> only fans creator
Pro soccer -> esports
I fail to see how the culture of our country will be negatively impacted by any of those changes. Comparing Cristiano Renaldo to OnlyFans is a straw man because that specific comparison was never suggested, except by the “rebuttal”
None of this is true, but boy, it sure does feel good to believe.
I wish you, and people in general, would be more willing to look for something like truth instead of whatever feels good at the moment.
I would argue that beyond basics like food, shelter and protection of human rights, we should strive for more noble pursuits as society. I'm not even religious whatsoever, but I think the proliferation of certain vices like sex/gambling/drugs is probably a net negative for society. They certainly have their roles in the long tail, but overall a society that is caught up in rampant dopamine chasing is a distracted, doomed society. We should always be yearning. We should be paving a road that is a better one for our future generations. Societal erosion is creating short term profit/happiness at the expense of long term thinking. America has become the king of this. You can see it everywhere, from the types of businesses people create (e.g pyramid schemes in the form of courses, or the shovel makers that create businesses to proliferate said pyramid schemes) to what is currently valued by the growing generation. I can keep going and going, but I'll leave it here. I hope I somewhat made my point. I'm sure many will disagree, and that is why this country is on its way downwards. The few smart will own and create a lot of value for themselves, we'll likely have a few trillionaires, and the majority will be bumbling idiots that can barely read. We're not there yet, but we're well on the way there
Especially when you've got streamers using sites like Twitch, aimed at younger gamers, promoting their OnlyFans porn.
The regular porn industry is bad enough (https://traffickinghub.com/), but at least the content is non-interactive, there's no pretence of friendship/connection.
Just like people understand that the violence in movies is fake.
What makes an onlyfans contributor worse than an actor in a violent movie?
The comment you are replying to articulated, I think rather clearly, one reason why maybe we should.
I think what you actually mean is that the reasons not to ("sex work is unsavory") outweigh the reasons to ("sex work is going to happen anyway and if some of the people doing it move to the US then they will spend their money and pay their taxes in the US and contribute to the economy there").
Maybe you're right, maybe you're not, but I don't think you should say "there's zero reason" when in fact there obviously are reasons and you just think other countervailing reasons matter more.
It would be unwise to filter out the fun people. We'd all become a bunch of unfun nerds.
Benefit to the USA, being generous, is that those earnings of the camgirl may then be spent in the US instead of flowing overseas. At least some of it will.
Critics would rightly point out though that importing thousands of camgirls increases demand for apartments (and even more than the typical person because I bet they’re less likely to live with roommates than a typical woman of the same age) and we have a massive housing crisis in all cities. Maybe if the camgirls want to move to the rust belt or something, it could still work out net positive.
What I think is more likely to happen though with an immigrant OF model (who isn't in that elite earning tier) is that she meets a partner in the US, which affords her an exit strategy if she doesn't want to (or can't) keep doing OF forever.
A benefit for the US is increased GDP, tax revenue, etc.
Not that I encourage it but... Obviously an OF model moving to the US means US users viewing that person now stop sending money abroad. And people from all over the world watching that model now send money to the US.
It's not just tax revenues: it's shifting the balance of money in the US's favor. If an OF model makes $10m a year and pays $2m in taxes, it's not just $2m in tax revenues for the US: it's also in addition to that $8m that are now spent/staying in the US.
Does anyone know on which work visa do models come in then? It can’t be H1B…
...are a member of scholarly/professional organizations;
...have published original research works scientifically and internationally (peer reviewed publications);
...that you have judged the work of others (supervised and/or examined Ph.D. candidates);
...that you have consulted to governments;
...that you have repeatedly been invited as guest speaker at conferences, trade fairs or universities;
...that you won major international scholarships and awards (e.g. best paper awards at conferences, Masters's/doctoral scholarships from prestigious universities like Oxford, Cambridge, Harvard or MIT;
...that three referees that are themselves O-1 level equivalents deem you worthy of receiving O-1 status;
...that you are a named inventor on patent applications and granted patents;
...that you have received media coverage;
...that you abilities are reflected in higher than typical compensation/salary/remuneration;
...that you won major international scholarships and awards (e.g. best paper awards at conferences, Masters's/doctoral scholarships from prestigious universities like Oxford, Cambridge, Harvard or MIT; or
...that you have published significant works (i.e., works that created impact through citations, business creation, or software systems using the methods described therein).
Usually, from an official ist similar to the above (which I re-wrote from memory here), three out of nine or so checkboxes is the lowest bar for an O-1, and if you tick all of them and work with a specialist law firm, then it should be a slam dunk; my O-1 took about six months from application to grant back in 2008 (no payments of any "expediting fees" if they exist were made as far as I know).
https://www.snopes.com/news/2025/07/02/melania-trump-einstei...
Whether or not those gatekeepers were right is another matter, but there was some guy in an office in a skyscraper who you had to impress, and if you did, you could get in.
Now, that guy's effectively gone. Aiden Ross, Jack Doherty - that kind of guy - couldn't have impressed a big wig. But now, they don't have to. They have to make people pay attention to them on YouTube/Instagram/TikTok/Twitch, and that's it. And they do that and they can get people to give them insane money to do so because they want access to that audience. Quality doesn't matter anymore.
Sorry couldn’t help
that's why they accept so much, the circulation of money would bring an enormous currency more than "traditional" job ever could
Dial M for Melania.
There's a reason why Hollywood became the Earth's center of cultural gravity post-WW2, https://goldenglobes.com/articles/exiles-and-emigres-hollywo...
You may argue that these people aren't of such import, but I would beg to differ. This is the future of culture. These people shape the culture that the young people around you consume. They create the memes of six-seven-ification.
I watched the Mr. Beast episode of David Letterman's show, and I had no expectations but figured he must have some charisma as the most watched youtube person. He was unable to explain basic concepts, had no self-awareness, and generally seemed detached from any sort of reality. It was shocking to think that is who is shaping young peoples minds.
BTW, actors are very often prostitutes. Have been since ancient times and the association has stuck. Mediterranean yachts are packed full of C-lister actresses/hookers. Not to mention most of them get jobs by sleeping with producers, which is just an indirect form of prostitution. I don't know about you, but classy is the last way I'd describe Jennifer Lawrence sucking Weinstein's dick.
It looked that way because they had media training and their public personas were carefully managed, with staged interviews and media appearances. Behind the scenes, it’s a different story.
Influencers are rewarded for seeming authentic. Mr Beast coming across badly in a traditional TV interview just makes his audience think he’s more real.
Hollywood took a bribe from the tobacco industry to make smoking "cool" and infect our nation with cigarettes.
> have little self-awareness
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mpUxn7NybY : "A big opportunity for us is that there are no gatekeepers. There's no one I have to convince to let me do things."
:-)
I think the whole world took up smoking because of Hollywood.
They're also not fungible and extremely mobile. People get attached to specific OF stars and the medium inherently requires remote work. So it's an inherently global labour force that protectionism won't help. American OF models won't magically make more money if you ban immigration unless you also ban cultural imports.
The government isn't displacing local talent by importing OF models and gets tax dollars for essentially doing nothing. Those tax dollars pay for schools/hospitals/etc.
OF also skews towards young, unmarried women, which balances the gender surplus of unmarried men that generally tries to immigrate. Since they're young, they also have more productivity before drawing on benefits like Medicare or Social Security.
By any objective standard OF models are the ideal migrant.
Isn’t that a derogatory stereotype? Aren’t those men (and women and other folks) as “exploited” as a reader of a book or a player of a game, who understands they’re about to be a part of a fantasy but willingly suspend the disbelief for a short while?
It’s only exploitation if this suspension of disbelief is artificially prolonged in nefarious way, with a self-reinforcing fantasy so the person loses touch with the reality and spends increasingly unhealthy amounts of time in a fantasy, or otherwise get conditioned and start to exhibit addiction-like behaviors that aren’t in their best long-term interests.
That happens (every entertainment industry has its whales), but saying it’s the norm (rather than a pathological extremity) is sort of stigmatizing.
It kind of sounds like you are trying to justify whatever it is you are doing, in which case you do you. I don't actually care what you do and neither should you care what I think.
And everyone can use Pornhub for free, yet Pornhub still makes money on their premium subscriptions. Are those also parasocial relationships?
> It kind of sounds like you are trying to justify whatever it is you are doing, in which case you do you.
You know I thought about putting the obligatory "I don't use OF" in my first comment, but felt it wouldn't be necessary. I see that it was; by the way have you stopped beating your wife?
Consent does not bless immoral acts or neutralize damage. A person who takes a drug voluntarily is still being harmed by it. It causes changes in the consumer whether he likes it or not. Causality does not care about your consent.
(And to address your analogy to books, the content of a work of fiction also matters. Reading bad books isn't good for your mind either. But literary fiction at least has the potential to be good. The genre isn't categorically bad.)
And porn is addictive. Porn addiction is extremely widespread and afflicts mostly young men. Porn's ubiquity and the easy with which it can be accessed has created a situation that did not exist before, and from a young age. And not only is it addictive, but it does real psychological damage to these consumers, creating what some call "porn brain". It is an excellent method for producing sexually-crippled creeps and incels unable - and even uninterested, given the nature of their "fantasy" - to have healthy relationships with real human beings, and the stats corroborate this.
It is an incredibly twisted and deranging vice. It destroys individuals and has a destructive impact on society as a whole.
I’m afraid you’re oversimplifying it. If only things would be this simple. They just never are.
Every experience causes changes (it’s the whole point). And every stimulating experience has a potential to skew your behaviors towards having more of it. Some more, some less, of course, but anything can become a passion and get unhealthy so.
There’s this fine distinction between someone who does something now and then, without significant impairment to their decision-making abilities that cause over-favoring such actions, and those who fail to notice it in time and become overtly obsessed with something.
It’s not about what you do - you can be watching porn or going hiking (or whatever most people would naively deem “good”) - anything can become unhealthy.
I think I understand your point, though. Indeed, pornography consumption nature is intimate and that leaves less opportunities for feedback and self-introspection. That is, noticing the point it becomes more of an obsession. However, dismissing it under a simple “porn is bad” (a tempting idea) is short-sighted by dismissing any nuances, and also harmful - just in different ways (through stigmatization).
You can make all the moral judgments you like, but the fact is: They're making money either way, and then spending that money in their local communities. They can spend that money (and pay taxes on it) in the US or not.
It's no different economically than a musician or an actor doing the same.
Calling it "parasocial", doesn't change what it is, but the technology as a mediator does. And society has been feeding on itself since we moved past hunter gatherers.
The term only gained popularity at the start of the 1900s, it's a proto-meme
The reason why Hollywood even exists is because it was a way of escaping the enforcement of patents and royalties. And it is easy being the cultural center of the western world when everything other cultural-relevant city in the western hemisphere is somewhat in ruins. Other than that, the lettering is a racist monument of a bygone era.
> You may argue that these people aren't of such import, but I would beg to differ
I'm not a US citizen, but lets face it - there is some irony in seeing some scientists fleeing for abroad offers, some probably deported, and having influencers or glorified strippers benefiting from some ill-thought program.
> These people shape the culture that the young people around you consume.
Do you have kids? I do. People don't give 2 f** about Hollywood or their "stars". Maybe in america. We have our own clowns here, and 15 minutes of fame doesn't require being predated on by some director (thankfully). My daughter couldn't name a single actor even if she wanted to - because movies are (mostly) dead, and series are a commodity. And I'm not saying this as some weirdo who doesn't own a TV or something - we have Disney, SkyShowTime, HBO, Amazon, etc. Its just "kids dont care about that anymore".
> They create the memes of six-seven-ification So, do you know what that means exactly? Are you a Skrilla’s fan? Just asking, because from the tone of your response, you seem to have no idea of the meaning - just like kids saying "theez nuts" or whatever.
But at the same time, the immigration system historically penalized anyone who engages in prostitution and actively denied entry to people found to be engaged in it. There is an explicit question about this in all immigration forms. Which is why it’s surprising that O-1 visas are being awarded to OnlyFans models. Maybe OF isn’t prostitution according to how it’s being interpreted, but it’s very surprising.
https://www.loc.gov/item/global-legal-monitor/2025-06-10/swe...
If that’s accepted, then I find it hard not to also accept OF as a form of prostitution.
I hate to be that person, but the fact that so many people on HN think OF is prostitution is revealing of the site's demographics (i.e. older). It is, as some may put it, boomer thinking.
You're misunderstanding what these people - esports athletes, successful streamers, influencers, OF models etc - actually do. They create and maintain parasocial relationships.
The point isn't just the gameplay or nudes / sex videos or commentary. For e.g., I (and a bunch of other young women for some reason) love to watch Temet https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=go8EJbNaIHg while working. It's the way they reflect back to their audience and allow them to become a part of their performance.
It's kind of like the place where everyone knows your name? These are digital third places and the content (whether it be neon blue bunny hopping characters or a graphic video of someone having sex) is a mechanism for bonding / a part of the activity. Kind of like the alcohol at the pub, I suppose.
That's where real influence comes from in this age.
If you think OF is prostitution, you're fundamentally misunderstanding what will drive power and culture in this century.
"My default strategy was this: I would invite the man in, we’d sit down and talk for a while. I’d establish physical contact in the conversation by touching his hand when laughing at a joke, or crossing my leg so it bumped into his. I would become increasingly charmed, utterly fascinated by his life, and I asked him to explain to me concepts I already knew (remember, they like you smart in order to validate their identity as a man who likes smart women, and they still love teaching you things)."
https://knowingless.com/2021/10/19/becoming-a-whorelord-the-...
Is being in a sugar daddy/baby relationship a form prostitution? Is paying money for a custom private show online where the OF model performs all kinds of sexual acts prostitution? Does prostitution require physical contact? Thats the question of semantics that I am curious about re:immigration.
And these questions aren’t “Boomer mentality”. There is precedent in asking for clear definitions. Sweden makes a distinction between pre recorded only fans work, which is akin to pornography and custom shows which are criminalized, akin to prostitution. https://www.loc.gov/item/global-legal-monitor/2025-06-10/swe...
Well it's not non-existent either, there are a fair number of onlyfans models (and also general actors in the field of pornography who do the same) who do escorting on the side.
Plus AI porn is already a thing
And TikTok is the antithesis of culture. It's consumerist rubbish that encourages a vapid, thoughtless, and illiterate consumption of shallow material. The article even mentions the monetary motivations of those posting. Any gimmick will do just to make a buck.
Let us not relativize culture. If you relativize it, then your argument falls apart anyway. Authentic culture serves human beings. It involves learning from, developing, deepening, refining, and correcting what came before. Trash content doesn't do this. It is cultural poison. It ruins people's minds and wrecks society.
This use of O-1 visas is merely another sign of the downward trajectory of our polity. We are following Plato's description of social decline perfectly. Perhaps aesthetically, it is fitting that Trump is the poster boy of this abuse of O-1 visas, but he is at best an emanation and a catalyst of broader and deeper social and cultural processes. In the absence of a minimum of sound moral authority, you can expect the poison that lurks in the mud to hatch out and begin to dominate the polis.
My brother, you've just described modern American culture perfectly.
The walls of Pompeii beg to differ.
https://pompeiiarchaeologicalpark.com/social-norms-and-eroti...
https://mariasorensen.substack.com/p/the-forbidden-erotic-ar...
https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/archaeology/a627393...
I am sure there would have been people at the time decrying the creation of pigments and paints as the fall of civilization due to "decadence and depravity." Didn't matter much, did it?
> We are following Plato's description of social decline perfectly
Plato was a wrestler. Plato would like totally be a gym bro, bro.
It has been a while since I've read Republic, but I remember Book 8 differently. To quote the IEP,
Tyranny arises out of democracy when the desire for freedom to do what one wants becomes extreme (562b-c). The freedom or license aimed at in the democracy becomes so extreme that any limitations on anyone’s freedom seem unfair. Socrates points out that when freedom is taken to such an extreme it produces its opposite, slavery (563e-564a). The tyrant comes about by presenting himself as a champion of the people against the class of the few people who are wealthy (565d-566a). The tyrant is forced to commit a number of acts to gain and retain power: accuse people falsely, attack his kinsmen, bring people to trial under false pretenses, kill many people, exile many people, and purport to cancel the debts of the poor to gain their support (565e-566a). The tyrant eliminates the rich, brave, and wise people in the city since he perceives them as threats to his power (567c). Socrates indicates that the tyrant faces the dilemma to either live with worthless people or with good people who may eventually depose him and chooses to live with worthless people (567d). The tyrant ends up using mercenaries as his guards since he cannot trust any of the citizens (567d-e). The tyrant also needs a very large army and will spend the city’s money (568d-e), and will not hesitate to kill members of his own family if they resist his ways (569b-c).
I do have a friend (very popular drummer-YouTuber who makes covers, has millions of subs) who did get an O visa because he actually is a, kinda, celebrity, so I guess this is indeed happening occasionally. But nothing is being “dominated” here.
That said, the reality of today is so-called influencers and OF sex workers are now becoming a relevant fraction of applicants compared to the past where they represented 0%. Is it possible fixating on the word "dominating" a bit overly pedantic?
There is already a lot going on here without pedantry.
> My whole thing is being the funny Jewish girl with big boobs.
> Evidence of a record of major commercial or critically acclaimed successes in the performing arts, as shown by box office receipts or record, cassette, compact disk, or video sales
> Evidence of having commanded a high salary or other significantly high remuneration for services in relation to others
A high earning OF model ticks both of those boxes pretty easily. We don't want to put dollar amounts on it to only attract movie stars because other professions don't pay as well would be blocked out and an explicit filter on (heh) explicit O1 visas would be a content based restriction that would (or at least imo should) be a 1A infringement. [0]
https://www.pathlawgroup.com/o1b-visa-requirements/
[0] IMO a 1A restriction to who can come to the country is defacto a restriction on speech in the country.
I thought that was Rachel Bloom.
Is she passing the torch to the next generation?
Anyway, it's not that different from having the extraordinary ability of having hand-eye-coordination on a 7-foot frame.
(But even for professionals, it's a very gameable metric. There is a whole industry that helps getting published material and appearances for O-1 applications.)
Because OF models are models... so I wonder if model management companies are upset about folks selling content directly to consumers without abusive middle management and drumming up outrage to protect their shitty business model.
Say what you want about sites like OF, but at least the performers get a huge chunk of the earnings.
And so, suddenly, we find ourselves mired between traditionalist discomfort and pragmatic acceptance, an unglamorous terminus for earlier dreams of Human synthesis.
Given the amount of unemployed Software Engineers, it makes sense to reduce H1-Bs in that category.
Companies can still hire exceptional people from overseas using this O-1 visa.
I hope the best for every people out there, including every usa citizen, but money alone won't attract every human profile under the sun, and unleashed imperialism which don't even pretend to export democracy anymore is doing nothing good for the the image of the country I'm afraid.
What a world really! Take care everything, might safety and peace remain on you and your relatives.
I don’t hate on the younger generation, I feel bad they grew up with this shit and try to be a positive influence.
I see people of legit talent from doctors, to chemists and musicians dedicate themselves to posting content. What people don’t understand is survivor bias. For every success story you read about, how many people are going in reverse and not experiencing social mobility (and get depressed from it).
If you managed to amass 1M followers you clearly have strong abilities as an entertainer. The fact that the medium is different than what used to be the norm shouldn’t have an impact.
>extraordinary ability in the sciences, education, business or athletics
> The O-1 nonimmigrant visa is for the individual who possesses extraordinary ability in the sciences, arts, education, business, or athletics, or who has a demonstrated record of extraordinary achievement in the motion picture or television industry and has been recognized nationally or internationally for those achievements
As for the visa, it's not surprising and obviously idiotic for the society, but from the 'merit' standpoints it feels about right - if somebody has 10M followers, it's not that different from a radio or tv star.
Also, I’m sorry you think cam girls and people who #ad carbonated water are considered skilled in the context of work and contributing to society meaningfully..
Try now to convince a young person to become a doctor or an engineer, when an OF individual can make in a day what they will make in 40y, assuming they found a job anyway. Idiocracy was a glimpse into the future, not a movie.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43256318
and the owner of the modeling agency she came from "committed suicide" in prison
Especially when you consider the top-heavy success distribution. Sure there's influencers that have 100M views, but theres thousands of influencers with 300 views, are they going to be just happy with selling pictures for 10 bucks? Or will they follow the whales until they are paid to be flown into the prostitution assembly line, with or without visas.
No one said law was consistent or made sense.
Me dumping oil on the ground -> bad.
megacorp paying some engineers to make up a number for just how much oil is ok to dump on the ground and paying for government permission -> good
Diddy flying hoes around -> bad
OF models paying the .gov to fly around -> good
(I'm joking here, but not nearly as much as I wish I was)
Yes, with Republican govs, they can pay the government directly for a Golden Visa.
But with Democrat governments it's a bit more fair, they have to pay an immigration lawyer at 300$/hr with John money to get in instead. /s
At least it's better than them going in with a B1 visa and doing whatever.
Sorry for the politics dang.