Dead Internet Theory
129 points
7 hours ago
| 30 comments
| kudmitry.com
| HN
seiferteric
1 hour ago
[-]
My parents were tricked the other day by a fake youtube video of "racist cop" doing something bad and getting outraged by it. I watch part of the video and even though it felt off I couldn't immediately tell for sure if it was fake or not. Nevertheless I googled the names and details and found nothing but repostings of the video. Then I looked at the youtube channel info and there it said it uses AI for "some" of the videos to recreate "real" events. I really doubt that.. it all looks fake. I am just worried about how much divisiveness this kind of stuff will create all so someone can profit off of youtube ads.. it's sad.
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SilverSlash
3 minutes ago
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I really wish Google will flag videos with any AI content, that they detect.
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sheept
8 minutes ago
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a reliable giveaway for AI generated videos is just a quick glance at the account's post history—the videos will look frequent, repetitive, and lack a consistent subject/background—and that's not something that'll go away when AI videos get better
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Fr0styMatt88
41 minutes ago
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I find the sound is a dead giveaway for most AI videos — the voices all sound like a low bitrate MP3.

Which will eventually get worked around and can easily be masked by just having a backing track.

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fsckboy
16 minutes ago
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that sounds like one of the worst heuristics I've ever heard, worse than "em-dash=ai" (em-dash equals ai to the illiterate class, who don't know what they are talking about on any subject and who also don't use em-dashes, but literate people do use em-dashes and also know what they are talking about. this is called the Dunning-Em-Dash Effect, where "dunning" refers to the payback of intellectual deficit whereas the illiterate think it's a name)
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root_axis
9 minutes ago
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The audio artifacts of an AI generated video are a far more reliable heuristic than the presence of a single character in a body of text.
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alex1138
44 minutes ago
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Next step: find out whether Youtube will remove it if you point it out

Answer? Probably "of course not"

They're too busy demonetizing videos, aggressively copyright striking things, or promoting Shorts, presumably

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viccis
2 hours ago
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>which is not a social network, but I’m tired of arguing with people online about it

I know this was a throwaway parenthetical, but I agree 100%. I don't know when the meaning of "social media" went from "internet based medium for socializing with people you know IRL" to a catchall for any online forum like reddit, but one result of this semantic shift is that it takes attention away from the fact that the former type is all but obliterated now.

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LexiMax
1 hour ago
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> the former type is all but obliterated now.

Discord is the 9,000lb gorilla of this form of social media, and it's actually quietly one of the largest social platforms on the internet. There's clearly a desire for these kinds of spaces, and Discord seems to be filling it.

While it stinks that it is controlled by one big company, it's quite nice that its communities are invite-only by default and largely moderated by actual flesh-and-blood users. There's no single public shared social space, which means there's no one shared social feed to get hooked on.

Pretty much all of my former IRC/Forum buddies have migrated to Discord, and when the site goes south (not if, it's going to go public eventually, we all know how this story plays out), we expect that we'll be using an alternative that is shaped very much like it, such as Matrix.

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PaulDavisThe1st
21 minutes ago
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> Discord is the 9,000lb gorilla of this form of social media, and it's actually quietly one of the largest social platforms on the internet. There's clearly a desire for these kinds of spaces, and Discord seems to be filling it.

The "former type" had to do with online socializing with people you know IRL.

I have never seen anything on Discord that matches this description.

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LexiMax
6 minutes ago
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I'm in multiple Discord servers with people I know IRL.

In fact, I'd say it's probably the easiest way to bootstrap a community around a friend-group.

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dartharva
1 hour ago
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I'd say WhatsApp is a better example
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roywiggins
41 minutes ago
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It's even worse than that, TikTok & Instagram are labeled "social media" despite, I'd wager, most users never actually posting anything anymore. Nobody really socializes on short form video platforms any more than they do YouTube. It's just media. At least forums are social, sort of.
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ianburrell
1 hour ago
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The social networks have all added public media and algorithms. I read explanation that because friends don't produce enough content to keep engaged so they added public feeds. I'm disappointed that there isn't a private Bluesky/Mastodon. I also want an algorithm that shows the best of what following posted since last checked so I can keep up.
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nikeee
3 minutes ago
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I hope that when all online content is entirely AI generated, humanity will put their phone aside and re-discover reality because we realize that the social networks have become entirely worthless.
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makingstuffs
1 hour ago
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Think the notion that ‘no one’ uses em dashes is a bit misguided. I’ve personally used them in text for as long as I can remember.

Also on the phrase “you’re absolute right”, it’s definitely a phrase my friends and I use a lot, albeit in a sorta of sarcastic manner when one of us says something which is obvious but, nonetheless, we use it. We also tend to use “Well, you’re not wrong” again in a sarcastic manner for something which is obvious.

And, no, we’re not from non English speaking countries (some of our parents are), we all grew up in the UK.

Just thought I’d add that in there as it’s a bit extreme to see an em dash instantly jump to “must be written by AI”

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babymetal
33 minutes ago
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Just my two cents: We use em-dashes in our bookstore newsletter. It's more visually appealing than than semi-colons and more versatile as it can be used to block off both ends of a clause. I even use en-dashes between numbers in a range though, so I may be an outlier.
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karim79
1 hour ago
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I would add that a lot of us who were born or grew up in the UK are quite comfortable saying stuff like "you're right, but...", or even "I agree with you, but...". The British politeness thing, presumably.
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PaulDavisThe1st
19 minutes ago
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0-24 in the UK, 24-62 in the USA, am now comfortable saying "I could be wrong, but I doubt it" quite a lot of the time :)
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mc3301
1 hour ago
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Also, I've seen people edit, one-by-one, each m-dash. And then they copy-paste the entire LLM output, thinking it looks less AI-like or something.
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jasonhansel
56 minutes ago
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Em-dashes may be hard to type on a laptop, but they're extremely easy to type on iOS—you just hold down the "-" key, as with many other special characters—so I use them fairly frequently when typing on that platform.
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carbocation
30 minutes ago
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Em-dashes are easy to type on a macos laptop for what it's worth: option-shift-minus.
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wk_end
41 minutes ago
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But why when the “-“ works just as well and doesn’t require holding the key down?

You’re not the first person I’ve seen say that FWIW, but I just don’t recall seeing the full proper em-dash in informal contexts before ChatGPT (not that I was paying attention). I can’t help but wonder if ChatGPT has caused some people - not necessarily you! - to gaslight themselves into believing that they used the em-dash themselves, in the before time.

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MarkusQ
6 minutes ago
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No. En-dash doesn't work "just as well" as an em-dash, anymore than a comma works as an apostrophe. They are different punctuation marks.

Also, I was a curmudgeon with strong opinions about punctuation before ChatGPT—heck, even before the internet. And I can produce witnesses.

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GMoromisato
29 minutes ago
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Most of this is caused by incentives:

YouTube and others pay for clicks/views, so obviously you can maximize this by producing lots of mediocre content.

LinkedIn is a place to sell, either a service/product to companies or yourself to a future employer. Again, the incentive is to produce more content for less effort.

Even HN has the incentive of promoting people's startups.

Is it possible to create a social network (or "discussion community", if you prefer) that doesn't have any incentive except human-to-human interaction? I don't mean a place where AI is banned, I mean a place where AI is useless, so people don't bother.

The closest thing would probably be private friend groups, but that's probably already well-served by text messaging and in-person gatherings. Are there any other possibilities?

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mmooss
28 minutes ago
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The problem is not the Internet but the author and those like them, acting like social network participants in following the herd - embracing despair and hopelessness, and victimhood - they don't realize they're the problem, not the victims. Another problem is their ignorance and their post-truth attitude, not caring whether their words are actually accurate:

> What if people DO USE em-dashes in real life?

They do and have, for a long time. I know someone who for many years (much longer than LLMs have been available) has complained about their overuse.

> hence, you often see -- in HackerNews comments, where the author is probably used to Markdown renderer

Using two dashes for an em-dash goes back to typewriter keyboards, which had only what we now call printable ASCII and where it was much harder add to add non-ASCII characters than it is on your computer - no special key combos. (Which also means that em-dashes existed in the typewriter era.)

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deadowl
17 minutes ago
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On a typewriter, you'd be able to just adjust the carriage position to make a continuous dash or underline or what have you. Typically I see XXXX over words instead of strike-throughs for typewritten text meanwhile.
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amake
26 minutes ago
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How is the author the problem? What is the problem, in your view?
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mrbluecoat
1 hour ago
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So interesting this is right next to https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46673809 on the HN homepage. Really demonstrates how polarizing AI is.
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PaulDavisThe1st
18 minutes ago
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Article adjacency on HN typically lasts less than 10 minutes ... you did include an actual link though, so thanks for that.
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pants2
1 hour ago
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Are there any social media sites where AI is effectively banned? I know it's not an easy problem but I haven't seen a site even try yet. There's a ton of things you can do to make it harder for bots, ie analyze image metadata, users' keyboard and mouse actions, etc.
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BLKNSLVR
2 hours ago
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I'm not really replying to the article, just going tangentially from the "dead internet theory" topic, but I was thinking about when we might see the equivalent for roads: the dead road theory.

In X amount of time a significant majority of road traffic will be bots in the drivers seat (figuratively), and a majority of said traffic won't even have a human on-board. It will be deliveries of goods and food.

I look forward to the various security mechanisms required of this new paradigm (in the way that someone looks forward to the tightening spiral into dystopia).

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BobBagwill
1 hour ago
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The Last of the Winnebagos by Connie Willis
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TacticalCoder
30 minutes ago
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> In x amount of time a significant majority of road traffic will be bots in the drivers seat (figuratively), and a majority of said traffic won't even have a human on-board. It will be deliveries of goods and food.

Nah. That's assuming most cars today, with literal, not figurative, humans are delivering goods and food. But they're not: most cars during traffic hours and by very very very far are just delivering groceries-less people from point A to point B. In the morning: delivering human (usually by said human) to work. Delivering human to school. Delivering human back to home. Delivering human back from school.

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Morromist
1 hour ago
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I mean maybe someday we'll have the technlogy to work from home too. Clearly we aren't there yet according to the bosses who make us commute. One can dream... one can dream.
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BLKNSLVR
1 hour ago
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Anecdote-only

I actually prefer to work in the office, it's easier for me to have separate physical spaces to represent the separate roles in my life and thus conduct those roles. It's extra effort for me to apply role X where I would normally be applying role Y.

Having said that, some of the most productive developers I work with I barely see in the office. It works for them to not have to go through that whole ... ceremoniality ... required of coming into the office. They would quit on the spot if they were forced to come back into the office even only twice a week, and the company would be so much worse off without them. By not forcing them to come into the office, they come in on their own volition and therefore do not resent it and therefore do not (or are slower to) resent their company of employment.

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RajT88
36 minutes ago
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I really liked working in the office when it had lots of people I directly worked with, and was next to lots of good restaurants and a nice gym. You got to know people well and stuff could get done just by wandering over to someone's desk (as long as you were not too pesky too often).
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stogot
8 minutes ago
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> What if people DO USE em-dashes in real life?

I do and so do a number of others, and I like Oxford commas too.

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neilv
1 hour ago
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Sunday evening musings regarding bot comments and HN...

I'm sure it's happening, but I don't know how much.

Surely some people are running bots on HN to establish sockpuppets for use later, and to manipulate sentiment now, just like on any other influential social media.

And some people are probably running bots on HN just for amusement, with no application in mind.

And some others, who were advised to have an HN presence, or who want to appear smarter, but are not great at words, are probably copy&pasting LLM output to HN comments, just like they'd cheat on their homework.

I've gotten a few replies that made me wonder whether it was an LLM.

Anyway, coincidentally, I currently have 31,205 HN karma, so I guess 31,337 Hacker News Points would be the perfect number at which to stop talking, before there's too many bots. I'll have to think of how to end on a high note.

(P.S., The more you upvote me, the sooner you get to stop hearing from me.)

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petermcneeley
19 minutes ago
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HN has survived many things but I dont think it will survive the LLMs.
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GMoromisato
25 minutes ago
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I thought you were going for 2^15-1 and an LLM messed up the math.
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bigmeme
27 minutes ago
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Holy based
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gmuslera
5 hours ago
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In one hand, we are past the Turing Test definition if we can't distinguish if we are talking with an AI or a real human or more things that were rampant on internet previously, like spam and scam campaigns, targeted opinion manipulation, or a lot of other things that weren't, let's say, an honest opinion of the single person that could be identified with an account.

In the other hand, that we can't tell don't speak so good about AIs as speak so bad about most of our (at least online) interaction. How much of the (Thinking Fast and Slow) System 2 I'm putting in this words? How much is repeating and combining patterns giving a direction pretty much like a LLM does? In the end, that is what most of internet interactions are comprised of, done directly by humans, algorithms or other ways.

There are bits and pieces of exceptions to that rule, and maybe closer to the beginning, before widespread use, there was a bigger percentage, but today, in the big numbers the usage is not so different from what LLMs does.

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callc
33 minutes ago
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Recently I’ve been thinking about the text form of communication, and how it plays with our psychology. In no particular order here’s what I think:

1. Text is a very compressed / low information method of communication.

2. Text inherently has some “authority” and “validity”, because:

3. We’ve grown up to internalize that text is written by a human. Someone spend the effort to think and write down their thoughts, and probably put some effort into making sure what they said is not obviously incorrect.

Intimately this ties into LLMs on text being an easier problem to trick us into thinking that they are intelligent than an AI system in a physical robot that needs to speak and articulate physically. We give it the benefit of the doubt.

I’ve already had some odd phone calls recently where I have a really hard time distinguishing if I’m talking to a robot or a human…

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GMoromisato
17 minutes ago
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This is absolutely why LLMs are so disruptive. It used to be that a long, written paper was like a proof-of-work that the author thought about the problem. Now that connection is broken.

One consequence, IMHO, is that we won't value long papers anymore. Instead, we will want very dense, high-bandwidth writing that the author stakes consequences (monetary, reputational, etc.) on its validity.

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f311a
5 hours ago
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> The use of em-dashes, which on most keyboard require a special key-combination that most people don’t know

Most people probably don't know, but I think on HN at least half of the users know how to do it.

It sucks to do this on Windows, but at least on Mac it's super easy and the shortcut makes perfect sense.

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rsch
2 hours ago
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I can’t be the only one who has ever read https://practicaltypography.com/hyphens-and-dashes.html
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kelseydh
2 hours ago
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This would have been very helpful three years ago, before I permanently stopped using em-dashes to not have my writing confused with LLM's.
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JKCalhoun
59 minutes ago
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I suspect whatever you try to do to not appear to be an LLM… LLM's also will do in time.

Might as well be yourself.

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chao-
5 hours ago
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I don't have strong negative feelings about the era of LLM writing, but I resent that it has taken the em-dash from me. I have long used them as a strong disjunctive pause, stronger than a semicolon. I have gone back to semicolons after many instances of my comments or writing being dismissed as AI.

I will still sometimes use a pair of them for an abrupt appositive that stands out more than commas, as this seems to trigger people's AI radar less?

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JKCalhoun
58 minutes ago
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I still use 'em. Fuck what everybody else thinks.
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kelseydh
2 hours ago
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One way to use em-dash and look human is to write it incorrectly with two hyphens: --
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myself248
2 hours ago
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At this point I almost look forward to some idiot calling me AI because they don't like what I said. I should start keeping score.
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numpad0
2 hours ago
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I've been left wondering when is the world going to find out about Input Method Editor.

It lets users type all sorts of ‡s, (*´ڡ`●)s, 2026/01/19s, by name, on Windows, Mac, Linux, through pc101, standard dvorak, your custom qmk config, anywhere without much prior knowledge. All it takes is to have a little proto-AI that can range from floppy sizes to at most few hundred MBs in size, rewriting your input somewhere between the physical keyboard and text input API.

If I wanted em–dashes, I can do just that instantly – I'm on Windows and I don't know what are the key combinations. Doesn't matter. I say "emdash" and here be an em-dash. There should be the equivalent to this thing for everybody.

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d4rkp4ttern
3 hours ago
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First time I’m hearing about a shortcut for this. I always use 2 hyphens. Is that not considered an em-dash ?
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keyle
2 hours ago
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No it's not the same. Note there are medium and long as well.

That said I always use -- myself. I don't think about pressing some keyboard combo to emphasise a point.

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PaulDavisThe1st
15 minutes ago
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The long --- if you're that way minded --- is just 3 hyphens :)
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d4rkp4ttern
2 hours ago
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Yep I realize this now, as I said in my other comment.
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FridayoLeary
2 hours ago
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You are absolutely right — most internet users don't know the specific keyboard combination to make an em dash and substitute it with two hyphens. On some websites it is automatically converted into an em dash. If you would like to know more about this important punctuation symbol and it's significance in identitifying ai writing, please let me know.
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d4rkp4ttern
2 hours ago
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Wow thanks for the enlightenment. I dug into this a bit and found out:

Hyphen (-) — the one on your keyboard. For compound words like “well-known.”

En dash (–) — medium length, for ranges like 2020–2024. Mac: Option + hyphen. Windows: Alt + 0150.

Em dash (—) — the long one, for breaks in thought. Mac: Option + Shift + hyphen. Windows: Alt + 0151.

And now I also understand why having plenty of actual em-dashes (not double hyphens) is an “AI tell”.

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wincy
1 hour ago
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And Em Dash is trivially easy on iOS — you simply hold press on the regular dash button - I’ve been using it for years and am not stopping because people might suddenly accuse me of being an AI.
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FridayoLeary
2 hours ago
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Thanks for that. I had no idea either. I'm genuinely surprised Windows buries such a crucial thing like this. Or why they even bothered adding it in the first place when it's so complicated.
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jsheard
1 hour ago
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The Windows version is an escape hatch for keying in any arbitrary character code, hence why it's so convoluted. You need to know which code you're after.
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semilin
1 hour ago
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To be fair, the alt-input is a generalized system for inputting Unicode characters outside the set keyboard layout. So it's not like they added this input specifically. Still, the em dash really should have an easier input method given how crucial a symbol it is.
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tverbeure
1 hour ago
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Thanks for delving into this key insight!
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bakugo
5 hours ago
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Now I'm actually curious to see statistics regarding the usage of em-dashes on HN before and after AI took over. The data is public, right? I'd do it myself, but unfortunately I'm lazy.
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dang
3 hours ago
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Someone did just that!

Show HN: Hacker News em dash user leaderboard pre-ChatGPT - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45071722 - Aug 2025 (266 comments)

... which I'm proud to say originated here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45046883.

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JKCalhoun
53 minutes ago
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Ha ha, my first use of an em-dash on HN was 2016 which was the year I started my account.

I'm safe. It must be one of you that are the LLM!

(Hey, I'm #21 on the leaderboard!).

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chrisjj
7 hours ago
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> The notorious “you are absolutely right”, which no-living human ever used before, at-least not that I know of

What should we conclude from those two extraneous dashes....

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skwee357
7 hours ago
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That I'm a real human being that is stupid in English sometimes? :)
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roywiggins
34 minutes ago
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I'd read 100 blog posts by humans doing their best to write coherent English rather than one LLM-sandblasted post
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wincy
1 hour ago
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I knew it was real as soon as I read “I stared to see a pattern”, which is funny now I find weird little non spellcheck mistakes endearing since they stamp “oh this is an actual human” on the work
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chrisjj
6 hours ago
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That's just what an AI would say :)

Nice article, though. Thanks.

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pixl97
6 hours ago
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The funny thing is I knew people that used the phrase 'you're absolutely right' very commonly...

They were sales people, and part of the pitch was getting the buyer to come to a particular idea "all on their own" then make them feel good on how smart they were.

The other funny thing on EM dashes is there are a number of HN'ers that use them, and I've seen them called bots. But when you dig deep in their posts they've had EM dashes 10 years back... Unless they are way ahead of the game in LLMs, it's a safe bet they are human.

These phrases came from somewhere, and when you look at large enough populations you're going to find people that just naturally align with how LLMs also talk.

This said, when the number of people that talk like that become too high, then the statistical likelihood they are all human drops considerably.

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masswerk
5 hours ago
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I'm a confessing user of em-dashes (or en-dashes in fonts that feature overly accentuated em-dashes). It's actually kind of hard to not use them, if you've ever worked with typography and know your dashes and hyphenations. —[sic!] Also, those dashes are conveniently accessible on a Mac keyboard. There may be some Win/PC bias in the em-dash giveaway theory.
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whstl
4 hours ago
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A few writer friends even had a coffee mug with the alt+number combination for em-dash in Windows, given by a content marketing company. It was already very widespread in writing circles years ago. Developers keep forgetting they're in a massively isolated bubble.
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roywiggins
31 minutes ago
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I don't know why LLMs talk in a hybrid of corporatespeak and salespeak but they clearly do, which on the one hand makes their default style stick out like a sore thumb outside LinkedIn, but on the other hand, is utterly enervating to read when suddenly every other project shared here is speaking with one grating voice.

Here's my list of current Claude (I assume) tics:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46663856

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ChrisMarshallNY
5 hours ago
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I use them -but I generally use the short version (I'm lazy), while AI likes the long version (which is correct -my version is not).
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malfist
5 hours ago
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You don't use em dashes then, you use en dash.
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JKCalhoun
51 minutes ago
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(Looks more like a tee-dash to me.)
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pixl97
5 hours ago
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I think they are saying they are using an en dash where they should use an em dash.
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ChrisMarshallNY
5 hours ago
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Yup. Note that I didn't name the dash.
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Mordisquitos
4 hours ago
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They don't use the en dash, at least not in their comment—they are using the hyphen-minus as en dash–em dash substitute.
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al_borland
5 hours ago
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> part of the pitch was getting the buyer to come to a particular idea "all on their own" then make them feel good on how smart they were.

I can usually tell when someone is leading like this and I resent them for trying to manipulate me. I start giving the opposite answer they’re looking for out of spite.

I’ve also had AI do this to me. At the end of it all, I asked why it didn’t just give me the answer up front. It was a bit of a conspiracy theory, and it said I’d believe it more if I was lead there to think I got there on my own with a bunch of context, rather than being told something fairly outlandish from the start. That fact that AI does this to better reinforce the belief in conspiracy theories is not good.

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1bpp
5 hours ago
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An LLM cannot explain itself and its explanations have no relation to what actually caused the text to be generated.
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anonnon
3 hours ago
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Those are hyphens.
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chongli
5 hours ago
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I prefer a Dark Forest theory [1] of the internet. Rather than being completely dead and saturated with bots, the internet has little pockets of human activity like bits of flotsam in a stream of slop. And that's how it is going to be from here on out. Occasionally the bots will find those communities and they'll either find a way to ban them or the community will be abandoned for another safe harbour.

To that end, I think people will work on increasingly elaborate methods of blocking AI scrapers and perhaps even search engine crawlers. To find these sites, people will have to resort to human curation and word-of-mouth rather than search.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_forest_hypothesis

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__turbobrew__
1 hour ago
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Discord fills some of the pockets of human interaction. We really need more invite only platforms.
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chongli
24 minutes ago
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I like the design of Discord but I don't like that it's owned by one company. At any point they could decide to pursue a full enshittification strategy and start selling everyone's data to train AIs. They could sell the rights to 3rd party spambots and disallow users from banning the bots from their private servers.

It may be great right now but the users do not control their own destinies. It looks like there are tools users can use to export their data but if Discord goes the enshittification route they could preemptively block such tools, just as Reddit shut down their APIs.

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cal_dent
2 hours ago
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This is the view I mostly subscribe to too. That coupled with more sites going somewhere closer to the something awful forum model whereby there is a relatively arbitrary upfront free that sort of helps with curating a community and added friction to stem bots.
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JKCalhoun
49 minutes ago
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Lets all just get together and go bowling, shall we?
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JamesTRexx
2 hours ago
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It would be nice to regain those national index sites or yellow page sites full of categories, where one could find what they're looking for only (based) within the country.
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ares623
2 hours ago
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I've been thinking about this a lot lately. An invite only platform where invites need to be given and received in person. It'll be pseudonymous, which should hopefully help make moderation manageable. It'll be an almost cult-like community, where everyone is a believer in the "cause", and violations can mean exile.

Of course, if (big if) it does end up being large enough, the value of getting an invite will get to a point where a member can sell access.

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asdff
2 hours ago
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Sounds like the old what.cd
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secretsatan
5 hours ago
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I’m a bit scared of this theory, i think it will be true, ai will eat the internet, then they’ll paywall it.

Innovation outside of rich coorps will end. No one will visit forums, innovation will die in a vacuum, only the richest will have access to what the internet was, raw innovation will be mined through EULAs, people striving to make things will just have ideas stolen as a matter of course.

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therobots927
5 hours ago
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That’s why we need a parallel internet.
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femto
2 hours ago
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The "old" Internet is still there in parallel with the "new" Internet. It's just been swamped by the large volume of "new" stuff. In the 90s the Internet was small and before crawler based search engines you had to find things manually and maintain your own list of URLs to get back to things.

Ignore the search engines, ignore all the large companies and you're left with the "Old Internet". It's inconvenient and it's hard work to find things, but that's how it was (and is).

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therobots927
1 hour ago
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Well then in that case, maybe we need a “vetted internet”. Like the opposite of the dark web, this would only index vetted websites, scanned for AI slop, and with optional parental controls, equipped with customized filters that leverage LLMs to classify content into unwanted categories. It would require a monthly subscription fee to maintain but would be a nonprofit model.
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femto
28 minutes ago
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That's the original "Yahoo Directory", which was a manually curated page.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahoo#Founding

The original Yahoo doesn't exist (outside archive.org), but I'm guessing would be a keen person or two out there maintaining a replacement. It would probably be disappointing, as manually curated lists work best when the curator's interests are similar to your own.

What you want might be Kagi Search with the AI filtering on? I've never used Kagi, so I could be off with that suggestion.

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ageedizzle
5 hours ago
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What safeguards would be in place to prevent this parallel internet from also, with time, becoming a dead internet?
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Frotag
2 hours ago
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Social stigma against any monetary incentives. (I recognize the irony in saying this on HN.)
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asdff
2 hours ago
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Plenty of crass jokes advertisers don’t want in line with their content is how 4chan avoided commercialization.
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malfist
5 hours ago
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When it becomes a dead parallel internet, we'll make a internet'' and go again
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JKCalhoun
49 minutes ago
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Internot.
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secretsatan
5 hours ago
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What would stop them from scraping it and infecting it?
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pupppet
5 hours ago
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A̶O̶L̶ Humans Online
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aashu_xd
22 minutes ago
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bots are everywhere and Ai bots making this theory very true.
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flopslop
3 hours ago
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This website absolutely is social media unless you’re putting on blinders or haven’t been around very long. There’s a small in crowd who sets the conversation (there’s an even smaller crowd of ycombinator founders with special privileges allowing them to see each other and connect). Thinking this website isn’t social media just admits you don’t know what the actual function of this website is, which is to promote the views of a small in crowd.
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BLKNSLVR
2 hours ago
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To extend what 'viccis' said above, the meaning of "social media" has changed and is now basically meaningless because it's been used by enough old media organisations who lack the ability to discern the difference between social media and a forum or a bulletin-board or chat site/app or even just a plain website that allows comments.

Social Media is become the internet and/or vice-versa.

Also, I think you're objectively wrong in this statement:

"the actual function of this website is, which is to promote the views of a small in crowd"

Which I don't think was the actual function of (original) social media either.

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dvt
2 hours ago
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I liked em dashes before they were cool—and I always copy-pasted them from Google. Sucks that I can't really do that anymore lest I be confused for a robot; I guess semicolons will have to do.
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parpfish
1 hour ago
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I’m an em-dash lover but always (and still do) type the double hyphen because that’s what I was taught for APA style years ago
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celsius1414
2 hours ago
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On a Mac keyboard, Option-Shift-hyphen gives an em-dash. It’s muscle memory now after decades. For the true connoisseurs, Option-hyphen does an en-dash, mostly used for number ranges (e.g. 2000–2022). On iOS, double-hyphens can auto-correct to em-dashes.

I’ve definitely been reducing my day-to-day use of em-dashes the last year due to the negative AI association, but also because I decided I was overusing them even before that emerged.

This will hopefully give me more energy for campaigns to champion the interrobang (‽) and to reintroduce the letter thorn (Þ) to English.

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geerlingguy
2 hours ago
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I'm always reminded how much simpler typography is on the Mac using the Option key when I'm on Windows and have to look up how to type [almost any special character].

Instead of modifier plus keypress, it's modifier, and a 4 digit combination that I'll never remember.

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cellis
2 hours ago
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I've also used em-dashes since before chatgpt but not on HN -- because a double dash is easier to type. However in my notes app they're everywhere, because Mac autoconverts double dashes to em-dashes.
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derf_
1 hour ago
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And on X, an em-dash (—) is Compose, hyphen, hyphen, hyphen. An en-dash (–) is Compose, hyphen, hyphen, period. I never even needed to look these up. They're literally the first things I tried given a basic knowledge of the Compose idiom (which you can pretty much guess from the name "Compose").
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stackghost
2 hours ago
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Back in the heyday of ICQ, before emoji when we used emoticons uphill in the snow both ways, all the cool kids used :Þ instead of :P
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npn
2 hours ago
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you can absolutely still use `--`, but you need to add spaces around them.
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lizknope
6 hours ago
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Bots have ruined reddit but that is what the owners wanted.

The API protest in 2023 took away tools from moderators. I noticed increased bot activity after that.

The IPO in 2024 means that they need to increase revenue to justify the stock price. So they allow even more bots to increase traffic which drives up ad revenue. I think they purposely make the search engine bad to encourage people to make more posts which increases page views and ad revenue. If it was easy to find an answer then they would get less money.

At this point I think reddit themselves are creating the bots. The posts and questions are so repetitive. I've unsubscribed to a bunch of subs because of this.

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clearleaf
5 hours ago
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It's been really sad to see reddit go like this because it was pretty much the last bastion of the human internet. I hated reddit back in the day but later got into it for that reason. It's why all our web searches turned into "cake recipe reddit." But boy did they throw it in the garbage fast. One of their new features is you can read AI generated questions with AI generated answers. What could the purpose of that possibly be? We still have the old posts... for the most part (a lot of answers were purged during the protest) but what's left of it is also slipping away fast for various reasons. Maybe I'll try to get back into gemini protocol or something.
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georgeburdell
4 hours ago
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I see a retreat to the boutique internet. I recently went back to a gaming-focused website, founded in the late 90s, after a decade. No bots there, as most people have a reputation of some kind
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swed420
5 hours ago
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> Bots have ruined reddit but that is what the owners wanted.

Adding the option to hide profile comments/posts was also a terrible move for several reasons.

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b65e8bee43c2ed0
4 hours ago
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given the timing, it has definitely been done to obscure bot activity, but the side effect of denying the usual suspects the opportunity to comb through ten years of your comments to find a wrongthink they can use to dismiss everything you've just said, regardless of how irrelevant it is, is unironically a good thing. I've seen many instances of their impotent rage about it since it's been implemented, and each time it brings a smile to my face.
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swed420
3 hours ago
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The wrongthink issue was always secondary, and generally easy to avoid by not mixing certain topics with your account (don't comment on political threads with your furry porn gooner account, etc). At a certain point, the person calling out a mostly benign profile is the one who will look ridiculous, and if not, the sub is probably not worth participating in anyway.

But recently it seems everything is more overrun than usual with bot activity, and half of the accounts are hidden which isn't helping matters. Utterly useless, and other platforms don't seem any better in this regard.

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asdff
2 hours ago
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You can still see them in search. The bots don’t seem to bother hiding posts though.
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imglorp
5 hours ago
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> allow even more bots to increase traffic which drives up ad revenue

Isn't that just fraud?

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OGEnthusiast
5 hours ago
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It is. Reddit is probably 99% fraud/bots at this point.
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clearleaf
3 hours ago
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Yes registering fake views is fraud against ad networks. Ad networks love it though because they need those fake clicks to defraud advertisers in turn. Paying to have ads viewed by bots is just paying to have electricity and compute resources burned for no reason. Eventually the wrong person will find out about this and I think that's why Google's been acting like there's no tomorrow.
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SchemaLoad
5 hours ago
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The biggest change reddit made was ignoring subscriptions and just showing anything the algorithm thinks you will like. Resulting in complete no name subreddits showing on your front page. Meaning moderators no longer control content for quality, which is both a good and bad thing, but it means more garbage makes it to your front page.
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chongli
5 hours ago
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I can't remember the last time I was on the Reddit front page and I use the site pretty much daily. I only look at specific subreddit pages (barely a fraction of what I'm subscribed to).

These are some pretty niche communities with only a few dozen comments per day at most. If Reddit becomes inhospitable to them then I'll abandon the site entirely.

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brandonmb
24 minutes ago
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This is my current Reddit use case. I unsubscribed from everything other than a dozen or so niche communities. I’ve turned off all outside recommendations so my homepage is just that content (though there is feed algorithm there). It’s quick enough to sign in every day or two and view almost all the content and move on.
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bananapub
5 hours ago
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why would you look at the "front page" if you only wanted to see things you subscribed to? that's what the "latest" and whatever the other one is for.

they have definitely made reddit far worse in lots of ways, but not this one.

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duskwuff
4 hours ago
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> why would you look at the "front page" if you only wanted to see things you subscribed to?

"Latest" ignores score and only sorts by submission time, which means you see a lot of junk if you follow any large subreddits.

The default home-page algorithm used to sort by a composite of score, recency, and a modifier for subreddit size, so that posts from smaller subreddits don't get drowned out. It worked pretty well, and users could manage what showed up by following/unfollowing subreddits.

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ziml77
4 hours ago
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The front page when I used reddit only contained posts from your subscribed subreddits, sorted by the upvote ranking algorithm.
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al_borland
5 hours ago
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Wouldn’t taking the API away hurt the bots?
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metalliqaz
5 hours ago
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the bots just scrape
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Spooky23
5 hours ago
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I’m think you are overestimating humanity.

At the moment I am on a personal finance kick. Once in awhile I find myself in the bogleheads Reddit. If you don’t know bogleheads have a cult-like worship of the founder of vanguard, whose advice, shockingly, is to buy index funds and never sell.

Most of it is people arguing about VOO vs VTI vs VT. (lol) But people come in with their crazy scenarios, which are all varied too much to be a bot, although the answer could easily be given by one!

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lifetimerubyist
5 hours ago
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Isn't showing ads to bots...pointless?
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lizknope
5 hours ago
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If the advertisers don't know the difference between a human and a bot then they will still pay money to display the ad.
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lifetimerubyist
4 hours ago
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You’d think they would eventually notice their ROI is terrible…?
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lizknope
3 hours ago
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I hope so but I don't know.
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alex1138
5 hours ago
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Steve Huffman is an awful CEO. With that being said I've always been curious how the rest of the industry (for example, the web-wide practice of autoplaying videos) was constructed to catch up with Facebook's fraudulent metrics. Their IPO (and Zuckerberg is certainly known to lie about things) was possibly fraud and we know that they lied about their own video metrics (to the point it's suspected CollegeHumor shut down because of it)
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ex3ndr
5 hours ago
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I am curious when we will land dead github theory? I am looking at growing of self hosted projects and it seems many of them are simply AI slop now or slowly moving there.
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anonnon
3 hours ago
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Reddit has a small number of what I hesitatingly might call "practical" subreddits, where people can go to get tech support, medical advice, or similar fare. To what extent are the questions and requests being posted to these subreddits also the product of bot activity? For example, there are a number of medical subreddits, where verified (supposedly) professionals effectively volunteer a bit of their free time to answer people's questions, often just consoling the "worried well" or providing a second opinion that echos the first, but occasionally helping catch a possible medical emergency before it gets out of hand. Are these well-meaning people wasting their time answering bots?
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AuthAuth
2 hours ago
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These subs are dying out. Reddit has losts its gatekeepy culture a long time ago and now subs are getting burnt out by waves of low effort posters treating the site like its instagram. Going through new posts on any practical subreddit the response to 99% of them should be "please provide more information on what your issue is and what you have tried to resolve it".

I cant do reddit anymore, it does my head in. Lemmy has been far more pleasant as there is still good posting etiquette.

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CommenterPerson
5 hours ago
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Good post, Thank you. May I say Dead, Toxic Internet? With social media adding the toxicity. The Enshittification theory by Cory Doctorow sums up the process of how this unfolds (look it up on Wikipedia).
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jibal
40 minutes ago
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Such posts are identifiable and rare, disproving Dead Internet Theory (for now).
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rickcarlino
5 hours ago
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Much like someone from Schaumburg Illinois can say they are from Chicago, Hacker News can call itself social media. You fly that flag. Don’t let anyone stop you.
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E39M5S62
5 hours ago
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If you can ride the Metra from your city to Chicago proper, you're in Chicago!
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weddingbell
2 hours ago
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What secret is hidden in the phrase “you are absolutely right”? Using Google's web browser translation yields the mixed Hindi and Korean sentence: “당신 말이 बिल्कुल 맞아요.”
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foxes
2 hours ago
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Are em dashes in language models particularly close to a start token or something? Somehow letting the model continue to keep outputting.
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semilin
1 hour ago
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I think it's mainly a matter of clarity as long embedded clauses without obvious visual delimiting can be hard to read and thus are discouraged in professional writing aiming for ease of reading from a wide audience. LLMs are trained on such a style.
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nl
1 hour ago
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The irony is that I submitted one of my open source projects because it was vibe-coded and people accused me of not vibe coding it!
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kelseydh
2 hours ago
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What is now certain is Dead StackOverflow Theory.
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heliumtera
5 hours ago
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But what about the children improving their productivity 10x? What about their workflows?

Think of the children!!!

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