Are arrays functions?
56 points
1 day ago
| 12 comments
| futhark-lang.org
| HN
tombert
2 hours ago
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I remember I got a little confused when I was first learning TLA+, because what you normally call "functions" are "operators" [1], and what you'd normally call "maps" or "lists" are called "functions".

It was odd to me, because it hadn't really occurred to me before that, given infinite memory (and within a mathematical framework), there's fundamentally not necessarily a difference between a "list" and a "function". With pure functions, you could in "theoretical-land", replace any "function" with an array, where the "argument" is replaced with an index.

And it makes sense to me now; TLA+ functions can be defined like maps or lists, but they can also be defined in terms of operations to create the values in the function. For example, you could define the first N factorials like

    Fact == <<1, 2, 6, 24, 120>> 
or like this:

    Fact[n \in Nat] ==
        IF n = 0 THEN 1
        ELSE n * Fact[n - 1]


in both cases, if you wanted to get the factorial of 5, you'd call Fact[5], and that's on purpose because ultimately from TLA+'s perspective they are equivalent.

[1] At least sort of; they superficially look like functions but they're closer to hygienic macros.

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eru
1 minute ago
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> It was odd to me, because it hadn't really occurred to me before that, given infinite memory (and within a mathematical framework), there's fundamentally not necessarily a difference between a "list" and a "function".

You don't even need infinite memory. If your function is over a limited domain like bool or u8 or an enum, very limited memory is enough.

However the big difference (in most languages) is that functions can take arbitrarily long. Array access either succeeds or fails quickly.

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dmead
10 minutes ago
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Is this what the fp community calls referential transparency?
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Jtsummers
4 minutes ago
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Very similar, referential transparency is the ability to replace a function call (or expression, generally) with its result (or value). So using an array (or other tabling mechanism) you can take advantage of this to trade off space for time.
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xelxebar
26 minutes ago
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IIRC, K rationalizes arrays and dictionaries with functions, e.g. you see arr[x;y] and fun[x;y]. Interestingly, this also highlights the connection between currying and projection, i.e. we can project/curry the above like arr[x] and fun[x].
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Nevermark
1 hour ago
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Arrays and structures are functions.

And all three are tuple [input, output] pattern matches, with the special case that in “call/select tuples”, input is always fully defined, with output simply being the consequence of its match.

And with arrays, structures and overloaded functions being unions of tuples to match to. And structure inputs (I.e. fields) being literal inline enumeration values.

And so are generics.

In fact, in functional programming, everything is a pattern match if you consider even enumeration values as a set of comparison functions that return the highly used enumerations true or false, given sibling values.

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sethev
28 minutes ago
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In Clojure, vectors literally are functions. You can supply a vector (~= array) or map any place that a single parameter function is expected. So for example:

    (map v [4 5 7])
Would return you a list of the items at index 4, 5, and 7 in the vector v.
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thomasahle
1 hour ago
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What about replacing

> Haskell provides indexable arrays, which may be thought of as functions whose domains are isomorphic to contiguous subsets of the integers.

with

> Haskell provides indexable arrays, which are functions on the domain [0, ..., k-1]?

Or is the domain actually anything "isomorphic to contiguous subsets of the integers"?

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edflsafoiewq
57 minutes ago
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That is typical in most languages, but Haskell's Data.Array is actually parametric over both the index type and the element type, with the index type required to provide a mapping to contiguous integers. This makes it similar to eg. a hashmap which is parametric over both key and element types, with the key type required to provide hashing.
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clhodapp
1 hour ago
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Any expression-value can be a function, if you simply define the meaning of applying the the expression-value to another expression-value to be something compatible with your definition of a function.
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bandrami
1 hour ago
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You can consider any vector a function, though it's not always helpful to do so
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stackghost
1 hour ago
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It makes obvious sense to consider an array as a function with the index as its input argument and the element its output, i.e. f(x) = A[x]... but this isn't the first time I've encountered this and I still don't see the practical benefit of considering things from this perspective.

When I'm writing code and need to reach for an array-like data structure, the conceptual correspondence to a function is not even remotely on my radar. I'm considering algorithmic complexity of reads vs writes, managed vs unmanaged collections, allocation, etc.

I guess this is one of those things that's of primary interest to language designers?

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tialaramex
1 hour ago
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Well for example this insight explains Memoization

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memoization

If you know that Arrays are Functions or equivalently Functions are Arrays, in some sense, then Memoization is obvious. "Oh, yeah, of course" we should just store the answers not recompute them.

This goes both ways, as modern CPUs get faster at arithmetic and yet storage speed doesn't keep up, sometimes rather than use a pre-computed table and eat precious clock cycles waiting for the memory fetch we should just recompute the answer each time we need it.

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vacuity
1 hour ago
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I think this is an after-the-fact connection, rather than an intuitive discovery. I wouldn't explain memoization this way. Memoization doesn't need to specifically use an array, and depending on the argument types, indexing into the array could be very unusual.
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stackghost
53 minutes ago
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>Well for example this insight explains Memoization

I don't think it does.

In fact I don't see (edit: the logcial progression from one idea to the other) at all. Memorization is the natural conclusion of the thought process that begins with the disk/CPU trade off and the idea that "some things are expensive to compute but cheap to store", aka caching.

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KK7NIL
40 minutes ago
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Both arrays and (pure) functions are just mappings of inputs to outputs, this is why memoization is possible without any loss of functionality.

Whether storing (arrays) or computing (functions) is faster is a quirk of your hardware and use case.

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hahahahhaah
1 hour ago
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Arrays are objects (allocated memory and metadata if you will). The function is what takes the array and an int and returns an item.
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repsilat
4 minutes ago
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Yeah I guess a c++ programmer might say `std::array::operator[]` is a function (or method, whatever), just like `std::array::size` is. And that identifying the array with just one of those functions (or even the collection of all methods offered) is to miss the point -- not just contiguous indices, but contiguous storage. A red-black tree with added constraints is not an array.

TFA does allude to this. An "array indexing function" that just met the API could be implemented as an if-else chain, and would not be satisfactory.

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hekkle
1 hour ago
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In Object Oriented programming, yes, arrays are objects and the functions are a property of another object that can perform instructions on the data of the Array Object.

Similarly in Lisp, (a list-oriented language) both functions and arrays are lists.

This article however is discussing Haskel, a Functional Language, which means they are both functions.

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Jtsummers
1 hour ago
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> Similarly in Lisp, (a list-oriented language) both functions and arrays are lists.

In which Lisp? Try this in Common Lisp and it won't work too well:

  (let ((array (make-array 20)))
    (car array))
What is the car of an array? An array in Lisp (since Lisp 1.5 at least, I haven't read earlier documentation) is an array, and not a list. It does not behave as a list in that you cannot construct it with cons, and you cannot deconstruct it with car or cdr.
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hekkle
23 minutes ago
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To quote John McCarthy "Since data are list structures and programs are list structures, we can manipulate programs just like data."

Yes, I know most people consider it to be a functional language, and some variants like 'common lisp' make that more explicit, but the original concept was markedly different.

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SanjayMehta
2 hours ago
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Everything is a function. Next question?
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nomel
2 hours ago
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For the downvoters, I think giving examples of what's NOT a function would start an interesting conversation, especially if you don't know how it could possibly be interesting!
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winwang
2 hours ago
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I think it depends on what you mean by "is a function". You can think of a constant, `x` as `x_: () -> {x}` (i.e. everything can be indirected). It could be argued that this is "philosophically" "useful" since getting (using) the value of `x`, even as an actual constant, requires at the least loading it as an immediate into the ALU (or whatever execution unit).

Even non-functional relations can be turned into functions (domain has to change). Like a circle, which is not a function of the x-axis, can be parameterized by an angle theta (... `0 <= theta < 2pi`)

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whateveracct
1 hour ago
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I think in this context, it is function as in a lambda in LC.

The answer is pretty much, yes, everything can be a function. e.g. A KV Map can be a function "K -> Maybe V"

P.S. If this style of thinking appeals to you, go read Algebra Driven Design! https://leanpub.com/algebra-driven-design

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jxf
1 hour ago
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In the mathematical sense, all functions are relations, but not all relations are functions.
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catapart
26 minutes ago
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not a downvoter (actually, an upvoter), so grain of salt, but in my experience people cannot stand this framing. my best guess is that they dislike how impractical it is. obviously it's too abstract to be useful for most practical application. but that doesn't make it any less true.

it's a bit like saying "everything is a process", or "everything is a part of the same singular process that has been playing out since observable history". there's some interesting uses you can get out of that framing, but it's not generally applicable in the way that something like "all programs are unable to tell when a process will halt" is.

but if you really want to harvest the downvotes, I haven't found a better lure than "everything, including the foundations of mathematics, is just a story we are telling each other/ourselves." I know it's true and I still hate it, myself. really feels like it's not true. but, obviously, that's just the english major's version of "everything is a function".

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magicalhippo
1 hour ago
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For me, a x86 interrupt service routine that services a hardware interrupt[1] doesn't strike me as something I'd consider a function. It shouldn't return a value, and it typically has side effects. So why is it a function?

I mean trivially you could say it's a function from (entire machine state) to (entire machine state), but typically we ignore the trivial solution because it's not interesting.

[1]: https://alex.dzyoba.com/blog/os-interrupts/

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retsibsi
26 minutes ago
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I didn't downvote but I'd be interested to know what the domain is here -- I'm not going to play dumb and be like, 'rocks are not functions', but I'm not sure exactly what class of thing you're asking for examples of.
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Zambyte
1 hour ago
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Closures and fexprs
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zaps
1 hour ago
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idk probably?
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shevy-java
1 hour ago
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> Haskell provides indexable arrays, which may be thought of as functions whose domains are isomorphic to contiguous subsets of the integers.

> I found this to be a hilariously obtuse and unnecessarily formalist description of a common data structure.

Well it is haskell. Try to understand what a monad is. Haskell loves complexity. That also taps right into the documentation.

> I look at this description and think that it is actually a wonderful definition of the essence of arrays!

I much prefer simplicity. Including in documentation.

I do not think that description is useful.

To me, Arrays are about storing data. But functions can also do that, so I also would not say the description is completely incorrect either.

> who can say that it is not actually a far better piece of documentation than some more prosaic description might have been?

I can say that. The documentation does not seem to be good, in my opinion. Once you reach this conclusion, it is easy to say too. But this is speculative because ... what is a "more prosaic description"? There can be many ways to make a worse documentation too. But, also, better documentation.

> To a language designer, the correspondence between arrays and functions (for it does exist, independent of whether you think it is a useful way to document them) is alluring, for one of the best ways to improve a language is to make it smaller.

I agree that there is a correspondence. I disagree that Haskell's documentation is good here.

> currying/uncurrying is equivalent to unflattening/flattening an array

So, there are some similarities between arrays and functions. I do not think this means that both are equivalent to one another.

> would like to see what it would be like for a language to fully exploit the array-function correspondence.

Does Haskell succeed in explaining what a Monad is? If not, then it failed there. What if it also fails in other areas with regards to documentation?

I think you need to compare Haskell to other languages, C or Python. I don't know if C does a better job with regards to its documentation; or C++. But I think Python does a better job than the other languages. So that is a comparison that should work.

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lukebitts
1 hour ago
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Some people really do look at a painting and see only brush strokes huh
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