The 26,000-Year Astronomical Monument Hidden in Plain Sight
179 points
by mkmk
2 hours ago
| 16 comments
| longnow.org
| HN
krisoft
52 minutes ago
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But is the star map there? This article seems to imply that it got demolished in 2022: https://www.oskarjwhansen.org/news/save-the-star-map

If so that is somewhat ironic. A message intended to communicate a date to thousands of years into the future got demolished a mere 86 years after its creation due to a drainage issue and a contract dispute.

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joezydeco
34 minutes ago
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rburhum
5 minutes ago
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That is a crime of humanity. Terrible!
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Tylast
30 minutes ago
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At a loss for words. :|
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krisoft
40 minutes ago
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I have once created a pendant to my friends’ wedding following a similar idea. A silver disk engraved one one side with the position of the planets and major moons at the moment of the ceremony. Fun thing is that the Galilean moons orbit fast enough that you can even read the intended minute. https://www.instagram.com/reel/DIpFTPOIP60/
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throw0101a
1 hour ago
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More:

> Due to the precession of the equinoxes (as well as the stars' proper motions), the role of North Star has passed from one star to another in the remote past, and will pass in the remote future. In 3000 BC, the faint star Thuban in the constellation Draco was the North Star, aligning within 0.1° distance from the celestial pole, the closest of any of the visible pole stars.[8][9] However, at magnitude 3.67 (fourth magnitude) it is only one-fifth as bright as Polaris, and today it is invisible in light-polluted urban skies.

> During the 1st millennium BC, Beta Ursae Minoris (Kochab) was the bright star closest to the celestial pole, but it was never close enough to be taken as marking the pole, and the Greek navigator Pytheas in ca. 320 BC described the celestial pole as devoid of stars.[6][10] In the Roman era, the celestial pole was about equally distant between Polaris and Kochab.

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pole_star

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celestial_pole

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breckinloggins
48 minutes ago
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I somehow doubt there is any future version of me that regrets joining The Long Now Foundation, and work like this is the main reason why.

If you're in SF you should pay them a visit and buy a coffee at The Interval; I think you'll find it worth the trip.

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vedmakk
1 hour ago
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This is the kind of stuff I love about ancient architecture. It seems they were full of such clever things (or maybe only the few constructions which survived until today).

Its nice to see that some people still care about creating such thoughtful art for modern constructions. It seems that most building of our time are just optimized for fast and efficient construction.

I hope there are many more out there, so that Earth's Graham Hancock of the year 16000 has something to explore on his/her ayahuasca trip.

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dylan604
1 hour ago
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When you had no electricity to produce light pollution, when you have no TV, printing press, or any other thing to distract your attention, you had plenty of time to look at the night sky. When that also means you didn't have a way to have a shared calendar, you paid more attention to the sky to know when the seasons were changing. When the changing of seasons were key into surviving, you gave it a lot of importance. It's hard to put that into perspective when we can just look at an app to see the specific time/date of astronomical events well into the future.
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praveen9920
9 minutes ago
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Having something built IRL would at least inspire a few to actually be interested in astronomy or star gazing.
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akshay326
2 hours ago
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> There is an angle for doubt, for sorrow, for hate, for joy, for contemplation, and for devotion.

I’m so intrigued - what was going on inside Hansen's brain?

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Liquix
1 hour ago
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Makes sense when talking about human postures and emotions.

Victory/elation/worship corresponds to extending the arms above the head or in a "V" shape, sorrow/grief corresponds to dropping to the knees and holding the head in the hands, etc. These associations seem to persist despite language barriers and great spans of time.

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ifh-hn
2 hours ago
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I first heard about this in a Graham Hancock book. Found it a fascinating example of an attempt to encode a date that far distant future generations might understand (provided it survives).
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DougN7
2 hours ago
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That was an excellent rabbit hole to go down while eating lunch :)
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aebtebeten
2 hours ago
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For a hypothesis concerning the precession of the equinoxes and religious pantheons, see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38761574
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GrowingSideways
1 hour ago
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The concept of "religion" didn't exist until the 17th century or so. Let's not use it here.
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tzs
1 hour ago
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You are confusing the thing with the category of the thing.

Religion the category is only a few hundred years old. The things that fall under that category go back at least as far as Neanderthal times.

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testaccount28
56 minutes ago
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it's an interesting point, and i don't think it can be resolved quite so neatly. to the people building such monuments, or writing such texts, the activity may have been closer to what we now refer to as "history" or "natural philosophy" (or even "civic infrastructure").

the fact that _now_, we have independent traditions referred to by those terms, and so categorize the ancient practices under "religion" is quite confusing, and it may be productive to make the distinction clear.

for a modern example, suppose we build a skyscraper in such a way that it lines up with, or reflects the setting sun on the solstice. we would regard this as "architecture", not "religion". i would be quite offended if, some thousand years from now, the aesthetic decision is dismissed as primitive superstition.

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maebert
1 hour ago
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cf. "The Map is not the Territory"
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MarcelOlsz
1 hour ago
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What?
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tzs
1 hour ago
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Wikipedia says similar [1]:

> The concept of "religion" was formed in the 16th and 17th centuries. Sacred texts like the Bible, the Quran, and others did not have a word or even a concept of religion in the original languages and neither did the people or the cultures in which these sacred texts were written

That said, GrowingSideways is mistaken. He is confusing the thing with the category of the thing.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_religion

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lalos
1 hour ago
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> Having this one fixed point in the sky is the foundation of all celestial navigation.

Only in the northern hemisphere.

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avhception
1 hour ago
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Haha, I clicked without reading the URL. Then I read the "01931" in the text, immediately looked at the URL and of course it was longnow.org. Brought a smile to my face.
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kraig911
1 hour ago
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I loved this. I wish I had the ability to do the same innocuous deep dive into a easter egg in code - but I fear it would never be discovered at this rate of which AI is generating similar stuff. But much like this article maybe there's a time and place.
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ProllyInfamous
1 hour ago
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During DEF CON XX, I got bored/overwhelmed (it was not my first year attending) — so I decided to rent a car and visit Hoover Dam (this was before the bypass bridge was completed). I drove through the desert 100mph+, in my own little HST jaunt, searching for nothing but concrete's high water mark.

The statues in OP's article are absolutely beautiful examples of Art Deco / 1930s Americana (my local post office was built then, too, and has eaglettes of similar [but smaller] design). I had no idea they were out there until stumbling upon them, and they definitely leave a lasting impression of our forefather's imposing presence. America, fuck yeah!

Wish I had then-known about this "clock," which is definitely hidden in plain sight. Wish we had similarly-lavish federal budgets, today. But worth visiting, both article, statues & dam.

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calibas
1 hour ago
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Sounds like it's about the precession of the equinoxes and the new "Age of Aquarius".
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kazinator
1 hour ago
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> construction of the dam began in 01931

Person in far future:

Was that in the original 01931 as in 1931? Or is that the usual truncation of 101931, since most relevant dates are in this decamillennium?

Leading zeros don't do what you think they do; you need look no further than how people say 03 when they mean 2003. A leading zero does not unambiguously say "there are no implied nonzero digits to the left of this zero".

Just, stop.

Or find some other convention, like, say, =1931. The = means, this is an exact value and not some value truncated modulo a power of ten.

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bregma
6 minutes ago
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I just look at it and think someone can't even count to 010 in octal.
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ofalkaed
41 minutes ago
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It is a convention of The Long Now Foundation to get people to think of time in terms of 10k years instead of a lifetime at best. It goes hand in hand with their 10k year clock.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clock_of_the_Long_Now

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kazinator
37 minutes ago
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> 10k year clock

a.k.a. cuckoo clock

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giraffe_lady
1 hour ago
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In the extremely interesting book about water, cadillac desert, there is a great discussion with a scholar of some kind, I think an archeologist, about the large western US dams and the future. The gist is that the reservoirs will eventually silt up and disappear, but the dams will remain for thousands of years. The silted lakes will preserve clear evidence of their construction in the geologic record of these regions.

We will quite plausibly be known as the dam builder civilization, as these artifacts could very easily outlast the memory of what we call ourselves. It is fitting to embellish them in this way.

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