EU Parliament freezes US trade deal ratification
70 points
2 hours ago
| 7 comments
| lemonde.fr
| HN
thecopy
1 hour ago
[-]
It all seems so surprisingly unnecessary. Angry geriatric man f*cks the world up for generations to come, then in a short bit he will die, and not have to live through the consequences.
reply
ViewTrick1002
1 hour ago
[-]
Trump is the symptom, not the cause. The cause the US people.
reply
kzrdude
1 hour ago
[-]
That is a very simplified take. Congress has been locking up for the past decades and is now unable to do useful regulation for the people. Much of it is due to how the funding of candidates works and the feedback loop effect it had on the political culture.

Trump is a symptom of this failure of political culture too.

reply
smashah
53 minutes ago
[-]
...A political culture the public has voted for by allowing it to continue despite being bound by a constitutional duty to prevent the same disenfranchisement you've described.

America will be judged by its own demonic standards. The standard by which they justified their participation in the Holocaust of Gaza ("they voted for it").

reply
atoav
55 minutes ago
[-]
Yes and no. Because you can always go one level higher and ask:

Why are the US people the cause?

And then we will talk about structural issues, to do with social mobility, education, a dysfunctional journalistic landscape, a tribalization of the political landscape and so on. But of course it doesn't stop there. You can go one up:

Why did these underlying causes came to be?

The simple answer is that a certain loose conglomerate of polticians, billionaires and CEOs thought it would profit them (it did). You can pick one of the issues mentioned above and go deep on why it is in the bad shape it is today and the answer will always boil down to lobbying and money in politics.

This are the much more insightful reasons and you get there just by asking "but why?" two times like a yound child. Totally recommended.

reply
ViewTrick1002
10 minutes ago
[-]
> will always boil down to lobbying and money in politics.

And here you take the easy way out. Just blame third parties. You should keep asking why to find the real cause.

My personal take, as someone who is European but has lived in the US, Texas metro areas specifically, is that first past the post elections sow division.

Choices are limited, political activity is neutered, and extremism builds until it finds an outlet through either of the two possible political choices. Taking over that side entirely.

Political systems needs vents for frustration, and the US system does not have that.

reply
smashah
1 hour ago
[-]
Foreign and Billionaire demonic interest have disenfranchised the people long ago. Luckily the people have a second-amendment constitutional duty to re-secure the free state. It's clear America is no longer a free state. One cannot be free in a panopticon.
reply
ViewTrick1002
52 minutes ago
[-]
It is time to stop blaming third parties. The truth is that congress is able to rein in Trump any second they want.

The reason they don't is that they know that they will get primaried and lose their seat for someone more aligned with the people and Trump.

reply
littlestymaar
1 hour ago
[-]
Even if Trump died today, Vance would continue his nefarious job.
reply
sschueller
1 hour ago
[-]
Exactly, just see the gal of garbage spewed by for example Scott Bessent at the WEF yesterday. The arrogance is outright insulting.
reply
ncruces
51 minutes ago
[-]
“The size of Denmark’s investment in US Treasury bonds, like Denmark itself, is irrelevant.”

So an ally is irrelevant.

People wonder why the EU is built the way it is, and behaves the way it does. It's precisely to avoid this. To bind Germany and France together and avoid the big powers treating smaller neighbors like this. I guess that's bad to some people.

This is not a trade dispute over something signed last summer. It's a lot bigger than that.

reply
sschueller
19 minutes ago
[-]
Switzerland is the worlds 3rd. largest holder of foreign exchange reserves. Thinking that small countries are irrelevant is futile.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_foreign_e...

reply
ImHereToVote
1 hour ago
[-]
The U.S. can't really afford the status quo regardless who is in office.
reply
sschueller
1 hour ago
[-]
The U.S. needs changes in its constitution if it every wants to go back to where it was and get the rest of the world to play along again.

The fact that the DoJ is not a independent institution unlike in almost every other western country make it impossible to uphold the law if the white house doesn't want to. The only thing preventing a sitting president from going after his political enemies is a "gentleman's agreement" between administrations in the United States.

Stability it key and there isn't any as we can see clearly.

reply
graemep
51 minutes ago
[-]
Vance seems to be very different. For all we know his real views are still these https://www.politico.com/news/2024/07/15/jd-vance-donald-tru...
reply
pjc50
1 hour ago
[-]
I guess we find out how much of this is cult of personality and how much is just the propaganda system.
reply
thecopy
1 hour ago
[-]
Vance doesn't have the cult of personality
reply
nosianu
1 hour ago
[-]
You will have to translate this German language article, but this is NOT Trump. It is about the tech billionaires supporting this quest, and why they want it.

https://orf.at/stories/3417584/

I doubt Trump would have ever even thought of Greenland on his own. I think was told about it, and the narrative planted in his head deliberately.

This focus on "Trump" in Internet comments and media irks me to no end. Trump is not a failure and not the wrong person in the job - he is ideal for those behind him. The money does not like public attention.

reply
captn3m0
59 minutes ago
[-]
We even know which billionaire planted the Greenland idea: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/jan/15/ronald-laude...
reply
austin-cheney
47 minutes ago
[-]
This gets me thinking that the US would benefit so much from trading its income tax for an aggressive estate tax. The US would have far greater tax revenue, the standard of living would dramatically increase for the average citizen, and idiots like these two would be powerless. Let influence be reserved for those who have built it.
reply
raverbashing
1 hour ago
[-]
But if you repeat the idea as your own so it becomes

(Yes the president can't tell Greenland from Iceland, but neither half of those "tech bros" who failed geography at school

reply
davedx
1 hour ago
[-]
"Carney said this more isolationist approach, where there's a "world of fortresses," will make countries poorer, fragile and less sustainable. But it's coming nonetheless and Canada must work with like-minded allies where possible to push back against domination by larger, wealthier and well-armed countries."

New trade relationships are being forged surprisingly quickly in the midst of all this. Anyone have a list of what's been recently announced? I can think of Mercator, EU-India, Canada-??...

reply
perihelions
1 hour ago
[-]
(Mercosur*, for "Mercado Común del Sur"[0]; Mercator was a geographer from the 16th century[1]).

[0] https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php... ("Glossary:Mercosur")

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerardus_Mercator ("Gerardus Mercator")

reply
inglor_cz
1 hour ago
[-]
Mercosur took 20 years to finalize and if it wasn't for recent unhingedness of American politics, I would expect it to get vetoed by special farmer interests in the last minute. But the threat became too big for that.

But yeah, there will be some urgency now. In times of need, people find out that all the "necessary" bureaucracy isn't really that necessary. War or threat of war is the only thing stronger than red tape.

(For an analogy, when Russia invaded Ukraine, Germany put most of its regulations aside to build some infrastructure for import of liquified gas in mere 6 weeks or so. The same infrastructure, under peace conditions, would take some 10 years to litigate against every NIMBY and eco-organization out there.)

reply
docdeek
1 hour ago
[-]
Special farmer interests are about 25% of the entire EU budget (https://www.europarl.europa.eu/topics/en/article/20211118STO...).

There are still farmer protests here in France every day against this deal. There will be a lot of pressure on French MEPs to vote against it when it goes to the EP for the final vote.

reply
joe_mamba
1 hour ago
[-]
>I would expect it to get vetoed by special farmer interests

IDK man, I feel like supporting the local farming industry is a pretty important strategic move, even if it's a loss leader.

We already offshored manufacturing, energy supply and IT to our "allies" in the past and it's biting us in the ass right now.

Do we really want to repeat the same mistake again with food?

reply
inglor_cz
1 hour ago
[-]
Everything is a trade-off. Farmers have a lot of influence in the EU. Personally, I think they are already too dominant, for historic reasons.

And yes, I get that food is important. Maybe the answer would be to unburden them from European regulations, which are pretty onerous. The few people active in agriculture I know complain about insane paper wars with authorities all the time.

One farmer I know got a hefty fine for building an impromptu shed for extra kids that were born beyond the expected count. Why are we doing this to ourselves, to 'secure our food'?

reply
joe_mamba
59 minutes ago
[-]
>for historic reasons

Yes. The need to feed one's self and family is pretty historically important going back since we were primordial organisms to medieval times when if peasants didn't have food they'd riot and behead the king.

>European regulations, which are pretty onerous.

Onerous regulations that seek to prevent ... checks notes ... the use of slave labor and chemicals that damage human health and the environment. But sure, let's bypass all that and import food from countries that use slave labor and toxic pesticides while the EU virtue signals on Twatter how their mission is protecting humans from racism and exploitation and saving the environment, but apparently apart from those in countries where we import our food from, there they can do whatever exploitation they want as long as they give us cheap stuff. It's not hypocritical at all.

Definitely not gonna bite us in the ass in 10+ years time when the leader of one of those countries with a shaky track record on democracy and human rights, decides to weaponize our food dependence on them to gain some advantages or just mow down some more the Amazon for profit while killing the indigenous, and all the EU is gonna do is write a sternly worded X post about "carefully monitoring the situation" at best, or at worst turn a blind eye and pretend a genocide isn't happening, just like they did with Azerbaijan's bombing of Nagorno-Karabakh because they were now dependent on Azerbaijani gas after giving up on Russian gas in 2022.

Stupid EU regulations or not, giving up sovereignty on energy and food supply to third parties is bad idea all of the time, because it's guaranteed to be weaponized against you at some point.

>One farmer I know got a hefty fine for building an impromptu shed for extra kids that were born beyond the expected count.

Sounds like a local council, conty or national issue to me, not an EU issue.

reply
izacus
51 minutes ago
[-]
I don't know what you're arguing about here because the farmers in EU are aggressively fighting against regulation to curtail chemicals, environmental controls and minimum healthy food quality mandates.
reply
inglor_cz
40 minutes ago
[-]
"The need to feed one's self and family is pretty historically important "

So is, say, the need to defend yourself, but would you be happy about the military holding the same amount of de-facto power in the EU as the farmers do? Or would you consider it excessive?

"the use of slave labor and chemicals that damage human health and the environment."

So, there is no unnecessary regulation in your view? All of them are very virtuous and protect us all against horrible things? And as a consequence, the more, the better?

If so, how come that their level can vary from country A to country B and yet country B doesn't suffer an epidemic of grisly deaths?

Nope, not all regulations are necessary and not every one of them is virtuous and good. Some are just a byproduct of the office needing to show some activity and keeping their budget.

"Sounds like a local council issue to me, not an EU issue."

Because you are uninformed. She wasn't fined by the local council, which DGAF about an improvised shed with no fixed foundation. She was fined by authorities overseeing agricultural regulations, because that shed meant that she exceeded the allowed extent of her facilities for goats by half a square meter. (Five square feet for USians.)

reply
joe_mamba
37 minutes ago
[-]
>So, there is no unnecessary regulation in your view?

Why are you making it sound like the issue is binary?

>Some are just a byproduct of the office needing to show some activity and keeping their budget.

Agree.

>She was fined by authorities overseeing agricultural regulations

Were those authorities doing the inspection from the EU or the local nation?

reply
inglor_cz
20 minutes ago
[-]
"Why are you making it sound like the issue is binary?"

Because your declaration about the regulations seeking to protect us from big evil sounded quite absolutist in itself.

A bit of a motte-and-bailey. Some of them are undoubtedly good, some less so, and we shouldn't lobotomize ourselves by immediately dragging slavery out when starting discussions about the current regulatory level.

"Were those authorities doing the inspection from the EU or the local nation?"

EU law gets transposed into national laws of the constituent nations and local authorities then enforce it, but it is still EU law.

It is very different from the US where state authorities aren't tasked by enforcing federal regulations, because the Feds have their own enforcement infrastructure.

Compared to the US, EU-own enforcement infrastructure is tiny and mostly outsourced to local governments.

reply
SllX
1 hour ago
[-]
20 years and counting. The Mercosur deal still needs to pass the EU Parliament, and it’s not scheduled to come up for at least a few months. The EU’s Parliament is also nearly split down the middle on the deal which means there’s still about a 50/50 it fails, maybe 51/49 or 52/48 in its favor at the moment, but it is very close and still has about as much chance of passing as not passing at this juncture.
reply
SideburnsOfDoom
1 hour ago
[-]
reply
pu_pe
9 minutes ago
[-]
Today at Davos will be a very important inflection point. If Trump decides to maintain or escalate pressure on Europe over Greenland, more economic retaliation will follow. While that could be suicidal for Europe, there are other factors at play, such as the fact that Trump cannot afford a self-inflicted economic collapse during an election year.
reply
tchalla
1 hour ago
[-]
This means that US keeps paying the old WTO MFN tariffs (low) while EU keeps paying the high ~15% tariffs like it has since the July “deal”.
reply
orwin
51 minutes ago
[-]
The importer pay the tariff, unless it changed in the last two hundred years?
reply
andsoitis
4 minutes ago
[-]
Tariffs are paid by importers, but the cost is usually shared between:

- Foreign producers

- Domestic consumers

- Domestic companies (via lower profits)

Who pays more depends on bargaining power and market structure.

reply
orwin
1 minute ago
[-]
So ultimately the EU doesn't pay the tariff, companies do.
reply
tchalla
33 minutes ago
[-]
I believe kindness hasn’t changed in the last 200 years - try it.

You are correct that importers pay tariffs on paper but that doesn’t always mean the tariffs are paid by the importers in real terms. Exporters may not want to change prices for competitiveness to local goods so in the end regardless of the actual invoice, the exporter is paying for those tariffs. You can find multiple exporters talking about absorbing those costs. I

reply
lifestyleguru
1 hour ago
[-]
This whole thing is slowly becoming irreversible. Canada should join the EU.
reply
reallymental
1 hour ago
[-]
All this hullabaloo about trade, tariffs and international relations has really got me thinking about the role of career "diplomats". I know of (peripherally) a few european people who have studied for this as a career, they've spent a lot of time on it (education wise). From far away it seems like a professional-level thing like being a doctor or a lawyer. They spend a lot of time studying, then working at the gov level as a lackey for a few years, then they gain some "contacts" and then... what? They join a "think-tank"? They help draft "policy"?

What's the point of all this? Aren't they all supposed to be just elected officials, and with the help of admin, supposed to just do their jobs?

I know I sound naive, I know it's more than this. I know interpersonal relationships matter and that's what these "contacts" are. But if all this can be thrown away by the actions of the few, what's the point of all this effort? Just simplify the entire structure, slash all this admin to the bare bones and let the people at the top show their competency, instead of the admin covering for them.

reply
avidiax
1 hour ago
[-]
There are many affairs of state that won't be skillfully managed by someone learning on the job every 4-8 years.

You wouldn't replace the entire CIA with political appointees every 4-8 years would you?

The CDC will need people that remember COVID in 30 years, will it not?

Surely, the delegation to Tehran should have some people that speak Farsi and have known their counterparts for 15-20 years, right?

The people at the top can't possibly have institutional knowledge for all the institutions under their control. Even a statesman like George H. W. Bush only has institutional knowledge for one branch of the military and the CIA. Should we have shown his competency in the affairs of the state department, department of energy, education, FBI, etc.?

reply
reallymental
1 hour ago
[-]
Appreciate the reply. I see your argument, I'll have to reframe my statements better.
reply
alpineman
1 hour ago
[-]
Time to buy European too
reply