New York Times games are hard: A computational perspective
59 points
4 days ago
| 10 comments
| arxiv.org
| HN
OisinMoran
43 minutes ago
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OT but recently came across this incredible video of a very engaging solve of a very beautiful Sudoku modification.

If you like puzzles this will brighten your day.

https://youtu.be/yKf9aUIxdb4

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kitd
5 hours ago
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I do Wordle, Pips, Strands, Connections & Sudoku. Of all of them, I find Connections definitely the hardest, even without the occasional US cultural references that I miss.
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OisinMoran
44 minutes ago
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Just Connections, Wordle, and Mini for me (in that order), with the occasional Crossword (tend towards a barbell strategy of just doing maybe Mon, Tue, Sun to get the quick hits and a real challenging puzzle).

Also experience the odd difficulty due to Americanisms, but can't really fault a puzzle coming from something called the New York Times for that. I do however think the puzzle setting for Connections is inferior to The Wall from Only Connect, where they got the idea from. If you haven't seen that yet it's definitely worth a watch (it gets harder as as a season progresses).

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mexicocitinluez
4 hours ago
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I still think the ultimate puzzle is the Sunday crossword (followed closely by Thur-Sat), though Connections is great. And definitely difficult (but never feels unfair).

I cancelled my subscription a few years back due to the way NYT was covering the current administration. At the time, I believed they'd never offer a "puzzles only" subscription because then they'd lose a large part of their subs. But, I was wrong. And now they offer a puzzle-only subscription.

There's a great documentary about the Crossword with Will Shortz that came out about a decade ago that's interesting.

Spelling bee is also pretty consistent.

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pimlottc
1 hour ago
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I would say the Saturday puzzle is definitely harder. Sunday’s is just bigger.
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mexicocitinluez
5 minutes ago
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100%. Every now and then they'll throw out a particularly tough Sunday, but I've yet to do a Saturday that wasn't difficult.

And if you didn't know this, Thursdays and Saturdays can have rebuses.

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Telemakhos
2 hours ago
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In 2023, 55% of visits to NYT's website were to games, not news. The puzzle-only subscription points to the NYT's fate as a game company that also offers news, much as airlines are credit card/loyalty point companies that also offer flights.
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mexicocitinluez
2 hours ago
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So my hunches were correct (majority of people were subbing to play the games), but not my conclusion: that they wouldn't split it off.

I've always thought that Will Shortz was one of the most powerful people at the NYT (slightly joking, but sorta not).

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kasperset
2 hours ago
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Wordle, Connections, Spelling Bee, and Pips (All modes) for me. Wordle is fun but Pips is very satisfying. Pips medium can sometimes be more difficult than hard one.
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somat
8 hours ago
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There is a theory that for a puzzle game to interesting it has to be NP-hard. Something about how otherwise your brain is too good a latching onto the "trick" and the game is boring.
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lelanthran
7 hours ago
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I do wordle, strands and, when available (once a week) I do the midi.

Wordle and strands together usually take less than 5m. The midi ranges from 3m30 (my best time) to ~12m (my worst).

Not done Letterbox, Pips and Tiles, but I figured that all their puzzles are at the same level of difficulty.

It's interesting, to me, that (from my reading of the paper, which was very quick) they they consider it hard/easy based on a sort of brute-force attempt to find all the answers.

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boelboel
2 hours ago
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Letter boxed is quite difficult if you want to do it in 2 words (which should always be possible), often taking me well over an hour. But they accept you 'winning' with 3-4 or sometimes 5 words. It's my favourite game as a non-native English speaker since knowledge of other languages is extremely helpful for optimal solutions. Especially as I speak French, Dutch, German and studied Latin and ancient Greek, don't think Swahili or Mandarin would help much.
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jamincan
3 hours ago
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What's the midi? Or do you mean the Mini (Crossword)?
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lelanthran
3 hours ago
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> What's the midi? Or do you mean the Mini (Crossword)?

There's 3x sizeof of crosswords

1. Large Standard New York Times one (subscriber only) 2. Mini (subscriber only) 3. Midi - which is in-between the large and the mini.

Once a week, the Midi is available to non-subcribers for free. A link comes in via email if you are signed up for their games.

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windowshopping
6 hours ago
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If you enjoy the NYT games but want something new too, check out The Daily Baffle at https://dailybaffle.com. There's a range of word and logic puzzles that NYT lovers should appreciate.
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oliwary
5 hours ago
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If someone wants a challenging Wordle variant, I've made this: https://squareword.org

It's a combination of 2D Wordle, crosswords and Sudoku. Been running for over 4 years :)

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quuxplusone
2 hours ago
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Very nice!

I made a simpler take on "challenging Wordle" some years ago: https://quuxplusone.github.io/wordle-clone/evirdle/ (Try "easy mode" too!)

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mghackerlady
2 hours ago
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I do World, Strands, Connections, and occasionally pips and the spelling bee. I used to be a big fan of the minis but you have to be logged in to do them now :(
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ai_lookout
6 hours ago
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For clarification, these results mean the problems are difficult when some aspect of the problem size grows (e.g. dictionary size, alphabet size, ...). For example for letter boxed, the size of the square can vary, so can the alphabet size and dictionary of words. See Table 1.

It is not really meaningful to talk about the computational complexity of most problems exactly as they are published in NYT, or they end up trivially in P, since the problem description length is bounded by finite English letters, fixed board size, finite English dictionary etc.

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tianqi
10 hours ago
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They are difficult. As I'm not a native English speaker, I didn't know many of the obscure words or usages, so I actually played these games from a purely computational perspective. I discovered early on that there were a lot of at least NPC problems in them. As my English improved (partially thanks to these games), intuitions began to help me take shortcuts, as if I had become a nondeterministic Turing machine.
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mexicocitinluez
4 hours ago
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> They are difficult. As I'm not a native English speaker

Kudos to you. That would be insanely difficult. There is a lot of American-based pop culture, knowledge, and slang that makes it even difficult if you are a native, English American speaker.

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macintux
2 hours ago
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The recent alcohol-themed Strands was brutal for me as an American. The first hint I received was utterly incomprehensible.

To avoid spoilers, the word in rot13 is just as meaningful to me: Znyorp

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shalmanese
6 hours ago
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> consider four of them not previously studied: Letter Boxed, Pips, Strands and Tiles.

Statistically, approximately zero people play Letter Boxed and Tiles.

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