Doing gigabit Ethernet over my British phone wires
271 points
6 hours ago
| 39 comments
| thehftguy.com
| HN
tialaramex
3 hours ago
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Worth knowing in this context:

Telephones only want a twisted pair. Ethernet, popular with businesses for decades, also wants a twisted pair. Now, that pair must meet much stricter criteria to be suitable, such as Category 5 (for 100Mbit) or Category 5e (1000Mbit ie Gigabit) - but it really is just twisted pair cable, merely a tighter specification than your phone.

Suppose you are a sparky (electrician) and you have some jobs where you are to install telephone connections, some where you put in "Ethernet" (presumably 100baseT would be fine) and some they specifically want you to wire for Gigabit.

You could go to your wholesaler and buy a reel of Cat3 phone cable, a reel of Cat5 100baseT Ethernet, and a third reel of Cat 5e Gigabit cable, and take the right one for each job. So long as you do this flawlessly you can probably save a few pounds every year by using a slightly cheaper cable for some jobs.

Or, you can buy one reel of Cat5e and use that for all these jobs and since it's the same reel you can't have the wrong one and don't need to check paperwork to know you've put the correct cable in a duct etc. Thought that was a phone line but now the client insists it's data? No problem, they're the exact same cable, just smile and agree.

When I bought the place where I live now I wanted GigE to this desk, even though the DSL comes into a different room. I didn't love the idea of cutting holes in walls but I was resigned to maybe needing that, except there's a phone extension in this room (like the author says, we do love phone extensions) and so that room the DSL comes into has a twisted pair to here. I opened up the box, and I'm like huh, that's Cat5e, and sure enough this entire building was wired with Cat5e because like I said, why not, it's basically the same cable, why carry a separate reel?

So I changed the face plates from telephone to Ethernet, and I'm done.

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ninkendo
3 hours ago
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I had the same thing in the house I bought, it was a nice surprise… there were 6 different phone jacks around the house in great locations for Ethernet (WiFi access points or just for a computer), and they all led down to the furnace room where they attached to a punch-down panel (basically they were all spliced into each other.)

To my surprise they were all cat5 cables. With the house being built in 2003 this was surprisingly forward-looking.

I capped all the cables that were on the punchdown panel and put a switch in there instead, and replaced all the wall jacks with RJ45, and bam, working gigabit around the house, including PoE for my WiFi access points. Still haven’t had to punch any holes in the walls.

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jonpurdy
2 hours ago
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Same; this was the nicest unexpected surprise about buying this place.

Condo built in 2006 with cat5 . Two bedrooms + living room all wired with rj11 phone jacks. Just snipped those off, wired up rj45, and attached the other ends in my utility closet to a patch panel with rj45 as well.

I don't know if it's just cat5 or 5e, but it saturates a 2.5Gbe link and in-wall cable length is about 15-25 meters.

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jorvi
1 hour ago
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The only problem with this is that for some god-afwful reason, anything built before the 2010s (?) placed electrical and phone sockets at hip level instead of ankle level. So you're staring at ugly sockets all day.

So sadly you still have to punch holes.

Then again, it isn't that much of a bother if all you have to do is punch a lower hole, relocate the socket and then plaster both holes up and repaint. Especially if you make it a weekend job to do the whole house at once. Or rather, the way I look at it is that it's a weekend job that will improve how the house feels for decades. Doing blind wiring (gutters) for all the ceiling lights falls in the same category.

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mnurzia
1 hour ago
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I think electrical/phone sockets were placed at that level because many telephones were designed to hang on the wall (docking onto and covering up the faceplate) for easy access. My childhood home had one that we used this way before we got a landline.
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wffurr
2 hours ago
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Alas my 2009 condo conversion was wired with coax to every room instead. I've been using the coax drops to pull Ethernet cables.
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throw0101a
1 hour ago
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> Telephones only want a twisted pair. Ethernet, popular with businesses for decades, also wants a twisted pair.

This is why there are two wiring standards, T568A and T568B, with A being compatible with multi-line telephone systems:

> The T568A scheme is based on the older USOC (Universal Service Order Code) standard, which was used for telephone wiring before the advent of high-speed data networks. The USOC standard assigned the green pair to the first line and the orange pair to the second line of a two-line phone system.

* https://www.comms-express.com/infozone/article/t568a-and-t56...

> As of 2018, ANSI/TIA still [recommended] T568A for residential installations for plug-in backward compatibility with old technology like fax machines or a plug-in base station for wireless phone handsets. If you are not using any such devices, or have no intention of plugging ancient RJ11 plugs into RJ45 wall jacks like you would a “phone jack”, then it comes back to personal preference again.

* https://www.truecable.com/blogs/cable-academy/t568a-vs-t568b

* https://www.flukenetworks.com/knowledge-base/application-or-...

As long as both ends of the cable are the same, it does not practically matter which variant is used.

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANSI/TIA-568#Wiring

There are also A-B crossover cables (though a lot of NICs can do auto-crossover nowadays):

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethernet_crossover_cable

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manbart
52 minutes ago
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Gigabit Ethernet require 4 twisted pairs i.e. 8 individual cables. 100Mb Ethernet requires 2 pairs i.e. 4 individual cables. At least in standard configuration
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pvtmert
5 minutes ago
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> It’s the normal procedure to buy things from Europe since Brexit 2020. It’s actually quite shocking that Royal Mail still hasn’t updated their tracking system to be able to give a status “waiting on import fees to be paid online”. They had 6 years!

Just click "reconnect" and re-join to the EU (and Schengen area)

I am saying this because I have some friends living in UK, but I do not have the Visa for UK. Although I am on a work/residence-permit in EU, it is just extra hassle to get the visa. I am instead waiting for my years to finish to apply for citizenship...

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jasonkester
1 hour ago
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Ah, mate. I sure wish you'd figured this out and told me about it 10 years ago. I fought with this exact same issue for years.

I live in an old stone farmhouse with my office in a stone garage across a nice poured concrete driveway. There's wires from A to B under all that, but nobody except an unknown electrician from the 80s could tell you even where they come out at either end.

Powerline kinda worked, with crap download speed and just abysmal upload (0.1mbps max), and I limped along with it for years.

When we upgraded to Fibre, that left the old phone line spare, and as luck would have it went straight from the office to the router cabinet in the house. But 80s electrician guy didn't use Cat5, so my genius attempt to use it as ethernet cable ended up slower than the powerline.

My eventual solution was a crazy powerful point-to-point wifi beam blasting straight through the 3 foot thick stone wall to a receiver in the garage below the office. It sets birds on fire from time to time if they fly through it while Helldivers is downloading an update, but it gets the job done.

Still, I might look in to getting one of these things as an upgrade.

Thanks for the writeup!

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Fiveplus
6 hours ago
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This is a fantastic result, but I am dying to know how the G.hn chipset creates the bit-loading map on a topology with that many bridge taps. In VDSL2 deployment, any unused extension socket in the house acts as an open-circuited stub, creating signal reflections that notch out specific frequencies (albeit usually killing performance).

If the author is hitting 940 Mbps on a daisy-chain, either the echo cancellation or the frequency diversity on these chips must be lightyears ahead of standard DSLAMs. Does the web interface expose the SNR-per-tone graph? I suspect you would see massive dips where the wiring splits to the other rooms, but the OFDM is just aggressively modulating around them.

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user5994461
5 hours ago
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A view from the the debugging tools since you asked https://thehftguy.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/01/screenshot_...

I don't think there is anything too fancy compared to a DSLAM. It's just that DSLAM are low-frequency long-range by design.

Numbers for nerds, on top of my head:

* ADSL1 is 1Mhz 8Mbps (2 kilometer)

* ADSL2 is 2Mhz 20Mbps (1 kilometer)

* VSDL1 is 15Mhz 150Mbps (less than 1 kilometer)

* Gigabit Ethernet is 100Mhz over four pairs (100 meters). It either works or it doesn't.

* The G.hn device here is up to 200 MHz. It automatically detects what can be done on the medium.

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direwolf20
4 hours ago
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Gigabit Ethernet uses four pairs per direction. It uses the same four pairs in both directions at the same time.
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estimator7292
3 hours ago
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1000Base-T uses two pairs per direction, actually. It's full duplex. Each port sees two TX and two RX pair.

There are four pair of wires in the cable. If you use all of them for TX, you can't receive.

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cpgxiii
2 hours ago
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> There are four pair of wires in the cable. If you use all of them for TX, you can't receive.

No, you absolutely can use them all for transmit and receive at the same time. The device at each end knows what signal it is transmitting, and can remove that from the received signal to identify what has been transmitted by the other end.

This is the magic that made 1000Base-T win out among the candidates for Gige over copper, since it required the lowest signaling frequencies and thus would run better over existing cables.

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direwolf20
2 hours ago
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zbrozek
19 minutes ago
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It's been many years since I implemented G.Hn hardware, but if memory serves the chipsets are typically able to split the available bandwidth into 1 or 2 MHz wide bins and choose different symbol densities and FEC levels for each bin. If you have a bin that has horrible reflections, you don't use it at all.

I also recall that the chipsets don't do toning automatically, and so it's up the the management device to decide when to re-probe the channel and reconfigure the bins.

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jakub_g
6 hours ago
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> Basically, you need to follow the tracking regularly until the package is tagged as lost or failed delivery, which is the cue to pay import fees.

> It’s the normal procedure to buy things from Europe since Brexit 2020. It’s actually quite shocking that Royal Mail still hasn’t updated their tracking system to be able to give a status “waiting on import fees to be paid online”. They had 6 years!

Wow.

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hdgvhicv
5 hours ago
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Another Brexit bonus

It’s no coincidence those that championed Brexit are those that wanted a weaker Europe and weaker U.K.

That’s why the majority of tax payers were against it, the majority of educated people voted against it, the majority of working people voted against it, the majority of people alive today who voted voted against it

Yet we still got it.

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bflesch
5 hours ago
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It's never to late to rejoin, we've all learned a lot about foreign propaganda in the last decade.
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yetihehe
5 hours ago
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Someone at Davos commented "It took you 7 years to negotiate your way out, it will take you 7 years to regret and then 7 years to negotiate back in".
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consp
4 hours ago
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All while losing all goodies and setting the economy back a decade.
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Nextgrid
4 hours ago
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But the remaining wealth of the country has successfully been extracted in the form of overpriced and not-fit-for-purpose utilities, transport companies, taxes, and so on and given to corporate interests. From their perspective it's a resounding success.
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hdgvhicv
3 hours ago
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Didn’t need Brexit for that - it’s been going on for decades.
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blibble
3 hours ago
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with most of the privatisations triggered by EU law!
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ulfw
1 hour ago
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You must have forgotten Thatcher
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blibble
56 minutes ago
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she was certainly a fan, but the spark for the match for almost all of the privatisations was EU/EEC directives

if the UK had never joined the EEC those industries would likely still be under government ownership

(for better or worse, water certainly was a disaster, but telecoms and airlines seem to have gone reasonably well)

and rail was done post Thatcher, with her on record as saying it is "a step too far"

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LightBug1
2 hours ago
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I wouldn't strictly put all of them at the feet of the EU. While what you say is true, the Conservatives were frothing to privatise whatever they could. Labour just went along with the process (and I'm no Labour supporter either).

The one I won't forgive was our water. I believe we're the only developed country to have privatised our water, with disastrous consequences.

And that one can be squarely laid at the feet of Margaret 'Fucking" Thatcher (real name).

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blibble
2 hours ago
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> The one I won't forgive was our water. I believe we're the only developed country to have privatised our water, with disastrous consequences.

100% agreed

there's no market or competition at any level (even RAIL had somewhat competitive bidding for franchises)

they're just Henry VIII style granted monopolies, with the results are the same as they were 800 years ago

(well, other than the civil war bit)

> And that one can be squarely laid at the feet of Margaret 'Fucking" Thatcher (real name).

water was another EU triggered one: the EU (EEC) kept writing new water directives, and the government couldn't figure out another way to fund their implementation

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wizzwizz4
1 hour ago
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If the government couldn't figure out a way to fund their implementation, then either the government was insufficiently-wily (in which case, they could've hired wily consultants), or it was genuinely impossible without taking money from another pot. If the latter, then selling to a for-profit corporate structure was the worst possible decision they could've made.
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blibble
1 hour ago
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I'm absolutely certain mountains of useless consultants were involved
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tonyedgecombe
5 hours ago
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We need a whole generation to die off before that becomes likely.

In the mean time we should move closer when the opportunity rises.

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bflesch
2 hours ago
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Don't be so sure that the next generation automatically gets less indoctrinated.

Facebook at least documented content interactions out in the open. With tiktok you don't notice what kind of content someone consumes.

There are tens of thousands of people working a full time job just to influence people in democratic countries to act/vote against their interests. Then we have hundreds of thousands more in advertisement industry with their own interests, mainly in line with goals of US companies.

There is reason for optimism because if everyone is on tiktok it becomes "uncool" again but still it is a very dangerous tool.

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bloomingeek
2 hours ago
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I'll bite on this one. I've been saying to anyone who will listen here in the states: my generation, the Boomers, needs to die out and/or get the hell out of the way. We're trashing almost everything because of a cult of hero worship.
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fnimick
2 hours ago
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While I used to agree with you, based on the most recent polling, Gen X and Gen Z are both farther right than Boomers are these days. So we're fucked long term too.
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Reason077
2 hours ago
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> "Paid the fee online, 20% VAT + a few pounds of handling fees ... It’s the normal procedure to buy things from Europe since Brexit 2020."

Why don't Amazon and other online retailers just charge you the UK VAT when you order and ship it "VAT paid", so it doesn't get held up at the border?

That's how it works in New Zealand. You pay New Zealand's GST when you place an order, not after it arrives. Any online retailer that ships over a certain volume of products to New Zealand is required to implement this.

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alibarber
1 hour ago
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Strangely, if I order from Amazon UK to Finland in the EU, the VAT is already all included and it comes directly to me, no customs. Even for some third party sellers too.
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neilwilson
1 hour ago
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It would be far better if we could get a government in who would use Brexit freedoms to scrap VAT and all the other sales and import taxes. They are an administrative nightmare and both unnecessary and ineffective. Stick to simpler taxes.

The problem is that we have one side who loves all things EU and the other that loves all things neoliberal - both of which are obsessed with sales taxes for some reason

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djhworld
4 hours ago
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> A new house bought today could have 10 phone sockets and 0 Ethernet sockets. There is still no regulation that requires new build to get Ethernet wiring (as far as I know).

I think this is true in the sense of there's no regulation it's just up to the developer, but my house (new build, 2021) has an RJ45 patch panel downstairs with 4 ports that lead to 4 areas of the house.

This was actually a surprise to me when I got the place because when I was speaking to the sales associates they had 0 clue what I was talking about when I enquired about network cabling. If I had known they were installing it as standard I'd have asked for more ports in more rooms, but hindsight...

But yeah, there's also 4 phone sockets as well, which I don't use. This solution might be interesting to try out, but phone sockets are in the same place as where the ethernet sockets are and I've no real need to expand in those rooms right now.

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Philip-J-Fry
19 minutes ago
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My new build (2023) would have had 0 ethernet if I didn't request it. It's so cheap to wire it in and so useful for the future I don't know why it's not just standard.

It had phone sockets though, for whatever reason.

When I was configuring the house the person I was with to do it didn't even know what ethernet was.

One thing I wished I could have picked was where all the ethernet terminated. It's all gone to a little cupboard where the fibre enters the house. That's convenient I guess if you had just one socket in the living room where you stick your Wifi router. But when I've got ethernet to all the rooms, I'd rather have it all in a back bedroom so I can stick a server rack in there. I guess I can still do that, it just means I need 2 switches now.

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Latty
4 hours ago
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When looking at new build houses a year or two back (in the UK), I saw some stuff that made no sense to me: they installed some by default, but ran it to only the lounge and bedroom 1, the house also had a dedicated study (labelled as such by them) which did not have an ethernet run to it, and they refused to let you option in any more, very weird.
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Dayshine
3 hours ago
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It's for the TVs, to provide network for live TV boxes.
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omnicognate
4 hours ago
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I've been using this for a couple of years in my home now, with the same German Gigacopper devices. It's rock solid, very much unlike my attempts at power-line ethernet in the past. I used ethernet over coax in my last house too, which was also great.

I think many (most?) UK houses could get gigabit ethernet to at least some rooms without any new wiring. It's strange that the devices for doing it reliably are hard to get, but powerline ethernet modems are sold everywhere despite barely working in most houses.

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Latty
4 hours ago
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My experience with powerline is they can work well for low activity, but they all overheat if you actually use them continuously, and the advertised speeds are extremely misleading as they are before error correction (which is very significant) and for the whole network.

My guess is that the nature of them being in a power plug means that they struggle to isolate things from the mains for safety in a way that doesn't also make them hotboxes.

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guenthert
2 hours ago
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I didn't notice overheating, but there are a quite a few different products on the market.

The modest speed (~50MBps at my place) was then ok-ish, but the (variable!) latency of a couple of ms was annoying (it tended to break pacemaker/corosync cluster communication). And every once in a blue moon they stopped working altogether and needed to be un-plugged.

Worst, for someone interested in analogue electronics, they emit (of course) a huge amount of electrical noise into the power lines.

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retired
6 hours ago
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I had a similar issue but instead I opted to replace all the wiring with CAT5E. I used the old phone wiring as a pull-wire to get the CAT5E through the walls very, very slowly. CAT5E was used as I needed all the flexibility I could get and 1Gbit was enough at the time.

The RJ11 panels on the wall were replaced with RJ45, crimped everything. Took a full day of carefully pulling wires but in the end I got gigabit all over the home.

The next owner will probably call me an idiot for using CAT5E in 2019.

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gnfargbl
5 hours ago
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You're the reason why the author's assertion that there is a huge untapped market for this in the UK is probably wrong; most of the people technical enough to set this up are also going to be technical enough to pull new cables.

There might be some market for a simple point-to-point device sold by the likes of Argos, zero config and including all the right cables already, aimed at people who can't or won't upgrade their cabling but want to enable their kid to play Fortnite.

But... there is no clear patent protection available, so as soon as someone successfully creates and markets that device, the Tiktok Shop clones will appear.

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jasonkester
1 hour ago
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most of the people technical enough to set this up are also going to be technical enough to pull new cables.

"Technical" isn't the issue. 200 year old stone houses are the issue. If you can't punch through it with wifi (and thus have this issue), I expect you're not going to be able to poke a cable through either.

For an example, to get from my house router to my office, you'd need to punch through a 3 foot cobble & mortar wall, trench across 30 feet of poured concrete (and tidy it up somehow), punch through another 3 foot thick stone wall, then "pull cable" up to the office. There's an old phone line from A to B that went in 30 years ago when the place was first renovated, but you can tug on it all you like and it's not going anywhere.

If I'd seen this article a few years ago, my life would have been a lot easier.

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JonChesterfield
5 hours ago
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Pulling cables through walls is really easy for some construction styles and really difficult for others.

Can involve taking up floorboards and drilling horizontally through beams, plumber style. Or cutting slots in masonry with angle grinders. Sometimes there are existing wires you can tie to and pull through, sometimes the existing wires were stapled to the walls.

On the bright side everything about the ethernet wires and connections is trivial. Like demo to a friend in 20 minutes and let them walk off with the toolbox and they'll be fine wiring their house, if the construction style is amenable.

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retired
4 hours ago
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Agreed. I tugged on each phone wire a to see if they were free. And I got lucky on all of them.

One of the problems I had was a kinked conduit where concrete was poured on top, or at least that is what I assumed. Was a bit difficult to get the “knot” (where the phone wire was connected to the CAT5E) through that spot.

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consp
4 hours ago
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The twisted pair (should be two but one pair is broken...) installed in the 60s in my home are so stuck you will never, ever, get those out without ripping the wall apart. Originally the coaxials should have gone through the same pipes, as there should be enough space, but there is so much gunk in there it was impossible and they layed out a new tube though the floors and ceilings in the corner. For fun and because institutional knowledge is for suckers, they tried the same with fiber and simply gave up so now we are in limbo because computer says we have fiber but we don't.
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user5994461
5 hours ago
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> most of the people technical enough to set this up are also going to be technical enough to pull new cables.

It's really not that simple when you realize that the average UK flat has 3+ sockets and the average house has 5+ sockets (speaking from my own experience). Some daisy chained and some direct.

Besides, a lot of people are renting and cannot touch their wire.

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Nextgrid
5 hours ago
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> a lot of people are renting and cannot touch their wire.

Nobody's going to complain about a backwards-compatible upgrade (you can put phone sockets back when you leave - nobody has to know there's cat 5/6 behind it).

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maccard
4 hours ago
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One of the big problems with pulling cable in the UK is the abundance of solid internal walls. Running cabling in my house involves lifting floorboards or drilling through multiple 2ft thick stone walls. It’s worth doing while you’re there but so destructive if you’re not
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simondotau
2 hours ago
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> The next owner will probably call me an idiot for using CAT5E in 2019.

Unlikely, they’ll probably be delighted that you went to the effort at all. While not ideal, Cat5e is usually good enough for 10 gigabit over shorter lengths. It’s not unusual for it to work perfectly on wires as long as 20 or 30 metres.

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jedilance
5 hours ago
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I am curious if you have some tricks for attaching pull-wire and CAT cable. Also, did you use any lubricant for the CAT?

I tried the same approach to replace COAX cable with CAT but the tie just broke off like 10cm before the socket exit [1], and CAT is stuck there now.

[1]: https://i.imgur.com/myW6IIq.jpeg

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JonChesterfield
5 hours ago
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Relatively successful was slotting the cat5 jacket, cutting off two or three of the pairs, twisting/tying the remaining pair to the old wire, then sliding the jacket back over the join before wrapping in a conservative amount of electrical tape. You want the join to be similar width to the cable and preferably flexible.

I have a suspicion that pulling fishing line first is the right play if you can manage to connect it to the old wire. Flexible, very high tensile strength, small.

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retired
4 hours ago
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In addition, in one room I ran two CAT5E cables as there was conduit along the entire way. So I took a CAT5E cable double the length of the conduit, stripped the outer sheath in the middle, folded the cable to get a loop and then attached the phone cable to that using the individual inner wires. Plus tape.
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pzmarzly
5 hours ago
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The apartment block I live in in Ireland has converted phone sockets into Ethernet using similar converters, except (a) it was in 2004, so 10Mbit base, (b) they ordered whole socket replacements, eliminating the need for separate box outside the walls, (c) the goal was to buy 1 business high speed line, and split it across all apartments, which became obsolete when ADSL, DOCSIS, and later FTTH became affordable options.

I heard the state of the wiring also wasn't great, sometimes apartments had twisted pair wires, while some straight wires, some only have 2 or 3 out of 4 wires connected, etc.

Good to know this technology still exists.

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forinti
5 hours ago
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This wouldn't be legal in my country unless all the apartments had one owner, because the telcos have a monopoly on communications.

The law says one person can't stretch a cable over to his neighbour, because they would need a licence for that (although if you did do that, who would know?).

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consp
4 hours ago
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My parents shared coaxiale television for years with the neighbors. Technically illegal but there is no way to know with analogue television.
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mattmanser
4 hours ago
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I think our phone lines must work differently, the entire infrastructure is owned by one company (BT) who must lease it to other companies. So they can do things like this, as everyone needs a router at the end to access it and that's how they charge per customer.

There is a separate cable network, again one operator (Virgin), who don't lease it out.

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jimnotgym
3 hours ago
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In the UK, pull the socket front off and look what the wires actually are.

I have seen electricians use cat 5 to carry phone lines several times. It is a mixture between having cat5 already in stock, and future proofing I think.

If it is cat 5 then just put an RJ45 socket on it.

As others have said, you can also try running ethernet on a phone line, you might not get gigabit, but you might get more than what is coming into your house!

The third point is you may be able to use the phone cable to fish a cat 5 through (depending on where it is). Electricians tend to be very good at this!

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tialaramex
3 hours ago
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That's also a good point that the Network hardware does not care about cable categories.

If it plugs into your card the card goes "OK, lets see if 1000baseT fits on this?" the cables don't have a little chip or anything saying "I'm not suitable for high speed" the card will figure out whether this looks plausible and just do it.

At the turn of the century I was putting new Cisco gear into a building (which has since burned down, not related) that had been built a long time ago and so it didn't have Cat 5e cables. I was fitting switches which were state of the art at the time (IPv6 experiments), and they didn't have a 100Mbit option because that was legacy, so you'd plug this ancient looking 1980s cable designed for 10baseT into a switch, and in most cases once it's connected the switch and the network card at the far end both go "Aha link, can I do 1000baseT over this?" and conclude yeah, Gigabit just works. There is a setting to say "No, only do 10baseT" but why set it? Users don't want slow Internet.

Unless somebody went very cheap and strung literal bellwire (which was never rated for a telephone but would probably work) or your distances are very long, you will almost certainly get 100Mb and if there actually are four pairs you will most likely get Gigabit.

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mprovost
2 hours ago
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Even if the cable is cat 5, telephone sockets are often daisy-chained from room to room. So it can still be a pain to get a point to point connection if it goes through several sockets.
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bdavbdav
3 hours ago
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I’ve tried that over fairly short lengths at home, and ended up with flapping even locked to 10HDX
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bloomingeek
2 hours ago
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Here in the states, when we moved into our house that was built in the late 60's, every room had a phone jack. The exterior of the house had cabling strung onto the back and one side with lines installed, through the brick, into the separate rooms. There was also a line or two in the attic. Sometime in the early 90's, after I fired Southwestern Bell, I striped away all the wiring. Two of out kids had new homes built, both were wired with Ethernet cable only for communication.

<I can’t stress enough how much we love our phone sockets. It’s not uncommon to have a one bed flat with 2 phone sockets in the living room and 2 phone sockets in the bedroom and a master socket in the technical room. It’s ridiculous.>

My wife and I rented a flat in Amsterdam a few years ago. I noticed that there was a phone jack in the water heater room, which I thought was strange. Now I know. (I was looking for the broom, BTW.)

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pvtmert
10 minutes ago
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> After some days, the DHL website said they tried to deliver but nobody home, this is bullshit

This is typical DHL. I started to believe, they put "tried to deliver, but nobody home" for any & all "UnhandledException" cases.

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j4mie
4 hours ago
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When we bought our house (1950s semidetached) it needed a full electrical rewire. I’m so glad I asked the electricians to run Ethernet all over the house at the same time, including to the ceiling in some rooms for WiFi access points.
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a022311
4 hours ago
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I wish I knew about this when I lived in a house without Ethernet sockets! I needed it in the attic for my PC and servers and all I had were slow, unreliable TP-Link Powerline adapters. My first speed test gave me 37.1Kbps (after painfully loading Cloudflare's test page). On a really good day I could get 3MBps. I'd get disconnected multiple times a day and I had to try all sorts of methods to get the adapter to connect again. I had to write a program in the end to tell me if I didn't have internet because the Powerline broke or my DNS server broke (normally it's always DNS but turns out it wasn't) :D

I had a phone socket in that room and I had already discussed the possibility of converting it into an Ethernet socket but decided it's not worth it because everything ended up in a cupboard far away from my router. These adapters would have solved the problem nicely!

By the way, I have more fun stories. The cabling in my current house (which has Ethernet sockets) is still miserable. I spent a year working with my PC over USB tethering to my phone until I finally called an electrician to find which of the 11 dangling cables in the cupboard went to my office...

One day some wires in there were slightly moved and the internet got disconnected because they were badly crimped. Nothing was working so in the end I got an RJ45 connector and managed to get the wires in there.

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larusso
4 hours ago
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You are a god send! I have the same issue. My house (2013!!!) is fully phone wired but has zero Ethernet. I have 3 floors which each running on a different phase (the electrician wired it like that). I have a power line adapter in my fuse box to connect directly to the three phases. But I can’t stream content or large files. Even worse the power line adapters bring noise into my power sockets. A guitar amp gets ground crackling etc. will look into this solution!
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the_mitsuhiko
3 hours ago
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I think I told this story plenty of times now, but Wifi got so good, that even though we have network cables everywhere, basically nothing is hardwired in our household any more other than the TV and a few sonos speakers that were close enough to the outlets.

We have about ~100 devices connected to our home network according to my router and other than 6 devices, they are all on Wifi. I would never have expected that, but the reality is that it just got so much better over the years that I cannot be bothered with actually wiring things up any more.

That's in part because the outlets are not necessarily aligned well with the devices that would need to be connected, and then all kinds of other shit that is going on with home ethernet.

In 2020 I wrote about my USB-C adapter breaking ethernet [1]. It is still one of my most read blog posts and I get emails from it still, because apparently even in 2025 actually hooking up a USB-C ethernet adapter will cause quite a few switches to fail.

Long winded way of saying: our Ethernet does Gigabit because I never upgraded and has almost no devices left. Our Wifi does >4Gitabit because it was easy to swap and most devices are Wifi anyways.

[1]: https://lucumr.pocoo.org/2020/7/6/usb-c-network-hubs/

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FloatArtifact
3 hours ago
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Wireless is just fine for devices connected to the internet but as soon as you want to connect multiple devices to do a heavy load, backing up or those kinds of things, wireless really does still take a hit depending on access point density.
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digiown
2 hours ago
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I'd like to mention that the cat5e cable present in your walls is rated to 2.5Gbps, and would often still work at 5 or 10Gbps over shorter runs in a home. 2.5gb equipment is very cheap nowadays. I got a couple of no-name switches under $40 each and they all work perfectly. Wired networks will always have better consistency and latency characteristics, too, if that matters to you.
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the_mitsuhiko
3 minutes ago
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It used to matter to me a few years ago but somehow I just no longer care enough.
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arwineap
3 hours ago
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Surely your access points are hard wired?
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the_mitsuhiko
2 hours ago
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I have three, only one is hard wired (the source). That's because I only have gigabit ethernet at the moment and the wireless backhaul is faster than the cable.
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wtcactus
2 hours ago
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Right, but where do you live?

I live in a 100m^2 apartment and the signal in the main bedroom is quite bad.

In most European countries, houses are built out of brick and concrete. The signal doesn’t easily reach the all house.

In my parents house, built out of granite, it’s even worse.

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the_mitsuhiko
2 hours ago
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> Right, but where do you live?

A 200 sqm apartment in Vienna, mixture of think walls and drywall. The signal goes everywhere with three well placed mesh things.

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tylerflick
31 minutes ago
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This has been my experience as well. I did have signal issues with cheap consumer router+AP combos, but after switching to Ubiquiti hardware coverage and signal have been great.
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bloomingeek
2 hours ago
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Excellent article! I think another take away is that we should all take a class on electrical wiring safety. Wiring is fun and very interesting, but can be very dangerous. Classes and the literature that comes with it are invaluable. However, Youtube and the literature will only take you so far, safety wise. (I'm not affiliated with any tech school, I learned by being in the trades under the guidance of trained electricians, with test stands and real life testing.)
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JonChesterfield
5 hours ago
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Lots of sympathy with this plight. Great to hear that someone has done the needful and rendered MoCA style modems over pairs of copper. I'm probably a customer for that.

I'm currently running MoCA over spliced coax as part of the local connection and not amused by the 5ms latency on it. Also running 100mbit over cat3 I found in a wall which does work, but cat3 in another wall can't hold 10mbit. That link actually can hold 70mbit of vdsl but after a nearby lightning strike slagged various hardware I've moved the vdsl modem back to the BT wires entry point and run the output through some fibre.

And there's a wifi bridge between two other points. And some ethernet running outside the building. Previously also ethernet-over-mains that I might bring back now that I've learned what spanning tree protocols are so the periodic reboots they inexplicably require can be tolerated transparently.

Also the connection to the internet itself is crap so bonding vdsl, starlink and 5g through the openmptcprouter project. Just lots of redundancy and self healing hacks all over the place to give an observably solid connection.

Which is a rambling way to say that if you're in Britain and your network connection brings you sorrow, it can be forced to be acceptable with application of more time and money than other countries require.

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Nextgrid
5 hours ago
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> the periodic reboots they inexplicably require

I've had powerline adapters with uptimes measured in years (basically in between power cuts). I think yours might be defective. They absolutely do not require reboots.

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jakedata
4 hours ago
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I connected self powered crank telephones to my home phone wiring for use as intercoms. Crank one and the others ring. Pick up to engage the battery powered talk circuit and you're chatting with Mabel like it's 1915. I did replace the old dry cell batteries with lithium camera cells so I don't need to think about them for a decade.
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bdavbdav
3 hours ago
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The German suppliers they link do European centric MOCA too! Looking seriously at these guys - the previous owners who renovated put decent CoAx absolutely everywhere, 4 BT lines for the outside office, and 0 Ethernet in.
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neilalexander
4 hours ago
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I have been using the exact same G4201TM devices at home for approaching five years now to do much the same: reuse some unused telephone wiring for a meaningful purpose. They are rock solid and have needed exactly zero attention since being installed.
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alimbada
4 hours ago
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> It’s not uncommon to have a one bed flat with 2 phone sockets in the living room and 2 phone sockets in the bedroom and a master socket in the technical room. It’s ridiculous.

This sounds a bit farfetched to me. I'm 40+ and lived in the UK all my life. Growing up we only had 1 phone socket in the house for the first few years until my dad got an extension put in upstairs. I've lived in multiple cities since then and no flat or house I've lived in has had more than 1 phone socket including the house I eventually bought and live in now (which is not small by most UK standards).

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hnlmorg
2 hours ago
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I’m a similar age and have also lived in a few houses over the years. I’ve never lived in any place that didn’t have more than one phone socket.

Though I have noticed multiple sockets are less common in really old houses which haven’t seen much modernisation, and less common in really new ones too (since builders expect most people will just use the master socket for broadband and people use mobiles for calls).

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abanana
2 hours ago
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Yes, the author's assertion here is nonsense. A case of someone with a very small window of experience being certain that what he's seen couldn't possibly be an outlier - must instead be normal for everyone.

The article also has a constant theme of putting people down because of something he doesn't understand. The Helldivers 2 developers are "idiots" because he doesn't understand the reasons for asset duplication in games. Simple daisy-chaining of slave sockets off the master is "incomprehensible", "pointless", "arbitrary" and "a mess"; the person who did the wiring is an "idiot". It all comes across as unfortunately quite arrogant.

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lambdas
4 hours ago
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I’ve lived in two apartments with the setup OP described, and they were both built 2003-2006. But I’ve not had it anywhere else, so it does seem constrained to a specific window of apartment developments
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alimbada
4 hours ago
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Interesting. Every place I've lived in has been older than that so that makes sense.
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user5994461
5 minutes ago
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It's a setup seen in a lot of new builds flat from the 2000s and 2010s, which is a very large amount of the housing stock in London for flats (There has been so many constructions!).
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cjs_ac
4 hours ago
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> One peculiar thing from the UK: Internet providers don’t truly offer gigabit internet. They have a range of deals like 30 Mbps – 75 Mbps – 150 Mbps – 300 Mbps – 500 Mbps – 900 Mbps, each one costing a few more pounds per month than the last. This makes the UK simultaneously one of the cheapest and one of the most expensive countries to get Internet.

Andrews and Arnold[0] offer gigabit, but I'm not surprised the author hasn't heard of them; they never advertise.

[0] https://www.aa.net.uk/

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Bassetts
24 minutes ago
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It's not just A&A either. I know I'm lucky as I live in an area that's had a relatively new CityFibre XGS-PON install, but I've got 2300Mbps symmetrical and 5000Mbps is coming Q1 this year.

Virgin Media also do Gigabit plus speeds and you can upgrade to symmetrical (they don't seem to advertise this though). That's definitely a household name.

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pumplekin
4 hours ago
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This is due to advertising standards. They are required to advertise "average speed", although how this is actually calculated is nebulous.

A&A not advertising can just say what the link speeds actually are on the product pages.

Other ISP's could do this too, but it would cause confusion having one figure on the advert and one figure on the product pages, and they might get in trouble if they link to the product pages in the adverts.

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VorpalWay
3 hours ago
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Couldn't they just list link speed and average speed (however that is measured, before or after protocol overhead for example) as two separate lines on the product page?
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alexfoo
1 hour ago
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As others have said, Fibre is a postcode lottery.

A&A is expensive for me. 1Gbps down and 115Mb/s up with a 1TB/mo quota for £75/mo. I get similar speeds (with no download limit) from BT for £34.99/mo.

Community Fibre is £63/mo for symmetric 5Gbps and "unlimited data".

I'm locked into a contract with BT for another year but I don't have any real need for anything faster than 500Mbps right now.

I'm focusing on making my homelab network 10GbE to cover the day that I do manage to get >1Gbps broadband.

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martinald
1 hour ago
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It's not true either. Openreach offer a 1.6gbit/sec product now, which ISPs can resell.

I don't understand why he says it's the most expensive places to get internet. You can get 900mbit (really 1gig pre overheads) for ~£30/month on openreach infrastructure which is not the cheapest in the world but it certainly isn't the most expensive.

And if you're covered by an altnet (who build their own infrastructure instead of reselling openreach) like cityfibre, community fibre or netomnia you'll get far faster speeds for even less money.

A lot of these providers do rent the poles and ducts off openreach, but then lay their own fibre over it

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TheOtherHobbes
2 hours ago
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I used to live in the UK and thought double-digit broadband was pretty good, actually.

Now I live in a slightly remote corner of Europe and I had 6Gbps fiber installed yesterday, for €15/month. (Nominally 10Gbps, measures as 6, which is... pretty good, actually.)

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userbinator
5 hours ago
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It sounds like his phone lines were already cat5, which is not surprisingly capable of 1Gbps.

However, I wonder why it seems G.hn is only available in the form of adapters, and not as e.g. a PCIe NIC.

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mortenlarsen
5 hours ago
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Then they would need to deal with drivers.
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Nextgrid
4 hours ago
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Yeah the era of non-Ethernet/Wi-Fi NICs died off decades ago with the last ADSL cards. Nowadays I'm not sure if OSes even support creating drivers for anything non-Ethernet (especially where to provide the config UI for your non-standard protocol).

What I've seen done recently to work around this is to combine your custom chip with a standard Ethernet NIC on the same board. The computer just sees an (off-the-shelf) NIC that's always connected, and all configuration happens via IP by browsing to a specific private IP (this kinda insists on NAT though).

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VorpalWay
3 hours ago
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Linux would support it for sure. It even still has support for several old NICs (it was only the other day I saw a news item about some old protocol from the early 90s finally being removed). But I can imagine no one wants to develop a new such driver.

And if you want to sell to consumers you need Windows and Mac support, and then it easier to just adapt to existing interfaces.

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Havoc
5 hours ago
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I've been eying the phone sockets too wondering what I can do with them. Think i'll end up running fiber though because internet is 1.6 so gigabit would be a bottleneck.

As a side note - it's quite difficult to find white fiber cables. They're all bright colour so that nobody cuts them accidentally but I don't want a pink line running along the walls haha

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vdm
1 hour ago
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Nextgrid
5 hours ago
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Here: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Elfcam®-Fibre-Optic-Multimode-Duple...

It is flat and thin enough you can stick it on top of skirting boards/etc with tiny dabs of hot glue.

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davkan
3 hours ago
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No need for fiber for 1.6 gigabit, Cat5e can do 10GbE over short distances, 2.5GbE over longer distances.
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dobroezlo
4 hours ago
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I've noticed this company also has coax modems. I wonder if they will work better than MOCA adapters. I've tried MOCA at my house and the quality of the signal is not good, connection keeps dropping every 10-15 minutes for no apparent reason...
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somehnguy
1 hour ago
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You may have had filters on your lines or just really poor quality connections/cables. I’ve been using MoCA in my home to bring internet up from my basement to the second floor for a few years and it’s been flawless. Consistent 1gbps, no drops, 1-2ms extra latency compared to Ethernet wired devices.
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bjackman
4 hours ago
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Wait, but you get 63MB/s down from steam?

My internet is pretty good, I can easily saturate my (rather dated) WiFi at about 30MB/s. But Steam downloads are extremely slow for me (can't remember the numbers but much less).

I always assumed Valve themselves were just stingy with bandwidth. Something else funny going on?

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Nextgrid
4 hours ago
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Peering between your ISP and Valve is likely saturated.

Considering Valve has an incentive to make downloads fast (= more revenue), it's likely your ISP is being stingy in this case.

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bjackman
1 hour ago
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I would have assumed valve use some third party CDN but yeah this would make sense I guess
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stefan_
4 hours ago
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And ISPs in most of the western world have no incentives to fix it, instead trying to scam Valve and others to get paid twice.
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Nextgrid
4 hours ago
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The business model of consumer ISPs is "take the money and don't deliver" so this tracks.
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user5994461
3 hours ago
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It might have detected the wrong country/city for you. Check Settings -> Downloads -> Region

Otherwise it's just your WiFi being patchy. I think Steam is doing "friendly" bulk download, it slows down before the connection is saturated, to avoid disconnecting your wife/mum/siblings watching Youtube or on a videoconference.

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theragra
1 hour ago
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For me it varies a lot. Sometimes I get 800 Mbit and sometimes like 80 Mbit. Mostly closer to 800, tho.
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simoncion
3 hours ago
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> Wait, but you get 63MB/s down from steam?

I usually (but not always) saturate my downlink with Steam downloads... even back when I was a Comcast customer and paying for ~180MB/s (~1500mbit/s) asymmetric service.

I believe that I have noticed that smaller games (~a few hundred MB or maybe a GB or two) will download quite a bit slower than large games, but I'm not very confident in that observation.

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Astronaut3315
2 hours ago
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Comcast has Steam server(s) colocated within their network in my immediate area. I’ve observed that less popular downloads tend to connect to external servers in the next state over.
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martinald
1 hour ago
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Another option is invsilight (https://lightera.com/invisilight-home-fiber-kit/).

It's very thin fibre cable that can be glued across skirting boards etc and is very hard to see.

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mgaunard
4 hours ago
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A lot of British houses have coaxial cable TV in all bedrooms.

Ignoring the horrible taste of our forebears that were putting TVs where they don't belong, that does enable carrying gigabit ethernet using MoCA technology.

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mgraupner
5 hours ago
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I have an 8-wire phone line (twisted pair) between floors. I connected it with an RJ45 socket and it connects at Gigabit speed.

If you only have four wires available, it will usually still work at 100 MBit.

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gambiting
5 hours ago
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>>Phones are wireless, which is too slow to test anything.

As a random aside - I've been surprised by this recently. I got a new shiny Wifi 7 router(TPlink BE550) and my Samsung S24 Ultra can sustain 2.2Gbps over wifi, both to and from the router. At this point I'm not sure if that is the actual limit or if it's limited by the 2.5GbE port on the router since that had my NAS connected to it and I was testing transfer to and from it. And it wasn't like an inch from the router either - it did it while in my hand, on the other side of the room with me sitting on our sofa.

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Nextgrid
4 hours ago
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When it comes to wireless, top speeds are misleading and the wrong way to look at it.

You can have the shittiest link possible with lots of dropouts and still get a decent speed test result because in between the dropouts you get max speed and TCP/etc is designed exactly to smooth over such packet loss, and browser-based tests aren't able to get low-level UDP access to defuse that.

Yet such a connection will be unusable for anything real-time, think gaming or videoconferencing. That's why so many people's connection still stutters on Zoom/etc calls - the "good" connection and super fancy router their ISP sold them isn't actually that good despite speed test results being satisfactory.

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michaelt
4 hours ago
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Honestly, most UK houses start out with a single ISP-provided wifi router, situated somewhere close to where the data cable enters the building.

For a lot of homes, that's enough to provide good-enough internet throughout the building.

The issues arise when you've got a larger building, thick walls, lots of things competing for the same frequency band, a less great router, or you need the very lowest latency.

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Nextgrid
4 hours ago
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> For a lot of homes, that's enough to provide good-enough internet throughout the building.

It often isn't - it's just magic like TCP/etc that is doing its job and making it feel that way for bulk non-interactive transfers. But get those people on a Zoom call or anything real-time and it'll be painful (double pain if they've subsequently got terrible bluetooth headsets and/or accidentally use their laptop's internal mic).

Doesn't help stupid ISPs split their 2.4GHz and 5GHz bands on separate SSIDs so now devices can't switch automatically and you've either got people constantly hogging the 2.4 band or barely trying to hang onto the 5GHz one in conditions where falling back to 2.4 would be appropriate.

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maccard
4 hours ago
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And here I am struggling to get gigabit Ethernet over brand new cat6 cabling with devices bought in 2025…
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stephen_g
3 hours ago
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Over what distance? Sounds like something is broken… Sure all the pairs are punched down in the right order, cables aren’t crushed, etc.?

I’ve had 2.5GbE running over old in-wall Cat5 in old buildings on short to medium (15-30m) runs with no issues…

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maccard
2 hours ago
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Roughly 15 metres. Almost certainly a cabling issue, although frustratingly the electrician who installed it says that they think it's fine. I've got a ubiquiti U7 AP connected to a USW lite 8 via POE, and it negotiates GbE, but then falls back to E.
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Roritharr
6 hours ago
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Wild to me that this developer has no access to a device with gigabit ethernet.

Time really does fly.

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dvdkon
5 hours ago
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The way I read it, they probably have Ethernet on their gaming desktop PC, just not on a second device to run a local speed test.
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Quarrel
5 hours ago
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He claims:

> One peculiar thing from the UK: Internet providers don’t truly offer gigabit internet.

Which might well be true where he is (ie he's limited to the equivalent of shared HFC or xDSL), but certainly isn't true everywhere.

I've had gigabit fibre (full duplex) in London since 2016, and the building had it before I arrived. It also has incredibly low latency to the major data centres of London, and not a lot more to most of western Europe.

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iamcalledrob
4 hours ago
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Symnetric gigabit connections can be hard to come by in London.

If you're served by a niche fibre provider (e.g. Hyperoptic, Community Fibre) then you're golden.

There's Virgin (think Comcast) with paltry upload speeds due to the cable tech. Understandable though not ideal.

Then there's the OpenReach full fibre network with paltry upload speeds due to... ??? there appears to no good reason, other than not wanting to cannibalise their leased line business. Does anyone actually know why they don't offer a symmetric product like the niche fibre ISPs?

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martinald
1 hour ago
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Virgin actually have upgraded a huge swath of their footprint from cable to XGS-PON (probably coming up to 10million homes now, with the full program due to finish in a couple of years).

However, due to their comically bad billing systems (i believe they licensed a billing system off the cable modem headend provider) they do not allow their existing users to switch from DOCSIS cable to FTTH. This has been a problem for a couple of years now. They've spent billions on civil engineering work to blow fibre everywhere but existing customers can't order it because their billing system is tightly coupled to their cable modem system. They offer up to 2gig symmetrical over XGSPON FTTH.

Re openreach I think it's a bit of protecting leased line revenue, a bit of faster upload speeds actually being quite niche - the market is driven by headline download speeds - but most importantly they rolled out GPON not XGSPON.

GPON "only" has 2.5gbit/1.2gbit available to the entire network slice it's on, which can be up to 32 homes (theoretically many more but openreach have that as the maximum I've seen).

This means one gigabit uplink can nearly saturate the entire link for the network slice of 32 homes.

They do have plans to upgrade to XGSPON (though I suspect they may skip that and move to 50GPON instead). XGSPON has 10git/10gbit and 50GPON 50/50 available to the same 32 homes.

They are just about to start a pilot of XGSPON in Guildford which has up to 8gig symmetrical available.

It's not a huge amount of work to upgrade PON versions, it just requires new line cards, and new ONT boxes for each house and can run side by side with existing GPON.

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lonesword
3 hours ago
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Hyperoptic is niche? I thought they were available all over London.
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mprovost
2 hours ago
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Even if they are available on your street, each building and individual flat has to be connected. For blocks of flats that's not always straightforward.
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iamcalledrob
2 hours ago
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Not where I am. It's street by street. A lot of areas have no fibre at all, not even OpenReach.

It's cable from Virgin or DSL

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timthorn
5 hours ago
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It's possibly because of a ruling from the Advertising Standards Authority back in the ADSL days: https://www.asa.org.uk/resource/broadband-speed-claims-guida...
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user5994461
5 hours ago
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Full quote. The problem is the price.

> One peculiar thing from the UK: Internet providers don’t truly offer gigabit internet. They have a range of deals like 30 Mbps – 75 Mbps – 150 Mbps – 300 Mbps – 500 Mbps – 900 Mbps, each one costing a few more pounds per month than the last.

Gigabit is so much more expensive (obviously it's gone down a lot). In London 2016, I had ADSL broadband at 16 Mbps for £12/month. That building didn't have fiber at the time. When fiber finally happened... it started as 30 Mbps fiber for so much more money.

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Latty
3 hours ago
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This is actually something where you are often better off outside of cities. The areas serviced by newer providers who are using the government grants to offer fibre to places without it and are actually running new fibre tend to offer much better prices and speeds.

E.g: One of them offers 900Mbps symmetric for £40/month (with a deal for £30/month for the first year). Meanwhile the legacy providers via OpenReach will only give you 700 down/100 up for more money, and require a two year contract.

The only real downside is most of them will CGNAT you, but most do offer IPv6 too, and mine offers a static IPv4 for £5/month more.

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sudhirb
5 hours ago
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I have 150Mb/s FTTP for £37/month - upgrading to gigabit would be £75/month, for example!
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regularfry
5 hours ago
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Fibre rollout in London was (is?) really, really patchy. If your building had it you were lucky. If you hadn't had it already you may well have found it impossible to get at retail.
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martinald
1 hour ago
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It's actually very well covered now. The problem is apartment buildings. The buildings owner has to give approval to allow openreach/virgin/hyperopic to run new fibre thru the building, and it's extremely time consuming for network providers to negotiate these individually per building.

If you're not in an apartment building you'll almost certainly have FTTH coverage from someone in London.

The govt is consulting on new laws which would give apartment building residents the power to demand the freeholder of the apartment building allow fibre installs, which would make this far easier.

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wtcactus
4 hours ago
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My current apartment also had a bunch of phone sockets spread around... In a couple of hours, I've removed the existing wires and passed Ethernet wires. Quick, easy, ubiquitous and cheap.

Ok, the writer could be renting a house and not wanting to do that. But sincerely, in Portugal, the landlords couldn't care less. Maybe in the UK, they really, really love their phone sockets and don't want to replace them, don't know.

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michaelt
4 hours ago
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UK landlords also don't tend to invest anything in their properties.

But in the UK case, that means the old phone cables are stapled to the skirting boards and painted over with gloss paint, and the sockets were wallpapered around in the 1990s. Pull the old cables and sockets off, the paint chips off and you've got holes square holes left in the wallpaper.

And although UK landlords don't give a shit about upkeep that costs them money, they rarely miss a chance to deduct money from the deposit.

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mschuster91
3 hours ago
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What I did in all my rentals (in Germany) was to outright run new cable. All you need is a bunch of drills - if you want to pull Ethernet, a 10mm drill will be sufficient, if you want pre-fab LC fiber you'll need a 15mm drill (better 17mm), and if you want to pull pipe (which I prefer) a 27mm drill for a DN20 pipe. And when you move out, take out the pipe, put some plaster over, smooth and paint, and no one can ever tell what has been there.
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wolvoleo
3 hours ago
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I mean on fairly short runs you can run Ethernet over water pipes if you want to. I'd try the cable on its own first without any fancy chipsets.

I've been surprisingly successful with that in the past.

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encom
4 hours ago
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This seems like a lot of effort and expense to avoid either figuring out the current ethernet cable layout, or pulling new cable. It's not that hard.
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IshKebab
4 hours ago
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> A new house bought today could have 10 phone sockets and 0 Ethernet sockets.

That's nonsense. Not in a new house. Maybe one from 20 years ago.

Anyway nice find. It's always annoying when there's a product that you know should exist but simply doesn't.

I'm currently trying to find a reasonably priced Bluetooth Auracast receiver so I can play audio to multiple rooms from my phone (no way am I investing in Sonos after all their bullshit).

There should be loads of these but the only ones I can find seem to be battery powered wearable devices aimed at tour groups, or hundreds of pounds.

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Latty
3 hours ago
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The 10 phone sockets are pretty unlikely, true, but 0 Ethernet? Probably more common than not. If anything, modern builds are doing less ethernet than ever because they assume everyone is just using WiFi.
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IshKebab
1 hour ago
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Ah yeah I quoted too much. I meant the phone sockets thing. Zero ethernet seems to be the norm still unfortunately because most people do just use WiFi.
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zabzonk
4 hours ago
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Why would they have ethernet sockets? Only one of the four computers I own has one, and I've never used it. I don't think this is unusual.
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ValveFan6969
1 hour ago
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I think Hitler had some good points.
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