▲helloguillecl13 hours ago
[-] Airtag is the reason of why I stil have my favourite hand luggage.
I had just sat down on the train from Zurich to Basel. Suddenly, someone sat down in front of me. He looked suspicious, but I didn't pay much attention. Just before the train departed, he picked up what I thought were his belongings and left.
Twenty minutes later, already on the way to Basel, I looked toward where I had left my suitcase. It was gone. That was when I realized that the person who had sat in front of me was a thief.
However, he hadn't counted on the fact that I have an AirTag in every backpack and suitcase.
So I was able to see where the thief was and where he was moving. I considered going to retrieve my suitcase myself, but while traveling back to Zurich, I called the Zurich Police and, as the thief kept moving, I told them where he was.
Twenty minutes later I received a call from the police informing me that they had found my suitcase with my belongings, matching the description I had given.
But also the thief and his accomplice.
trollbridge3 hours ago
[-] I need to applaud the efficiency and moxie of the Zurich / Swiss police service.
In America, the UK, Canada, etc they'd tell you to fill out a report that nobody would ever read, and also advise you it's probably unsafe to go pick it up yourself.
nozzlegear14 minutes ago
[-] In certain places in America. My county sheriff's office would be more than happy to have something to do that isn't picking up somebody's stray dog. I'm sure this is true for the UK and Canada too.
reply▲dmitrygr41 seconds ago
[-] Telling them "i am getting my gun and going to retrieve my stuff" guarantees that 6-8 police cars will converge on the location within minutes. Once there, they will apprehend the thief since they are there already.
reply▲There’s a pervasive belief in the anglosphere west that unfortunate people ought to be able to commit any property crime with impunity
reply▲My experience with small police departments in the US is that they either don’t have the time or the inclination to deal with small property claims. If you’re a business they’ll be there in 10 minutes, but individuals aren’t afforded the same courtesy. Eventually, citizens realize it’s just not worth the cost or the hassle to report a crime unless it helps with an insurance claim.
reply▲My experience with large police departments in the US is that they either don’t have the time or the inclination to deal with small property claims. Some people tried to steal cars (including mine) in my neighborhood in Chicago, we had them on video and they were still in the area and the police didn't do anything. Large police departments also generally won't really do much. Though my friend in Houston did have the police investigate car break ins at his apartment complex but that might be because multiple guns were stolen from cars (so at least there are certain things that will get their attention).
reply▲djoldman20 minutes ago
[-] Next time, try reporting that a crime is currently in progress. Emphasize that it is happening
as you speak.
Also say that you're thinking of intervening personally.
That usually gets them going.
catskull25 minutes ago
[-] Sounds like the solution in the US is to keep an AirTag and a gun in your suitcase so the police will be bothered to track it down.
reply▲I believe there to be some merit to the notion that it is better for society if many of the generational cycles which lead to crime are broken. Sometimes that involves off-ramps from the road to incarceration.
That said, the policy can be, and certainly is, applied in imbalanced ways when justice is pursued over pragmatism.
I'm sure at some point it's cheaper to pay people to do nothing and have laws enforced, rather than indirectly paying people to do crime by letting stuff get stolen without consequences. Politically it sounds insane, but it would make for a more trusting society.
reply▲That belief is not shared by law enforcement. But all the same, they'll refuse to help you anyway.
reply▲Back in 2011 (!) I went to a wedding in Denia, a medium-sized town on the Mediterranean coast of Spain.
The day after the wedding we went to a restaurant by the sea to have some hangover paella, part of the wedding celebrations. Weddings in Spain are usually 2 or 3 day affairs.
Anyway, since we were travelling back to Madrid later that day we left our luggage in the trunk of the car, not visible from the outside. We locked the doors and off for paella.
Or so we thought: some bad guys were jamming the car key frequencies so the car didn’t actually lock. They hit jackpot with my bag: my Canon IXUS camera (I loved that camera), my Kindle 3G, my MacBook Pro and my iPad… with 3G.
When we found out later that day we went to the local Guardia Civil and told them the story. I opened “Find My” on my phone and told them exactly where the bad guys were, all the way in Valencia already.
You should have seen the face of the two-days-shy-from-retiring officer when I told him that my iPad was connected to the internet and broadcasting its location continuously. Remember this was 2011.
So they sent a police car to check out the area and found a suspiciously hot car. They noted it down and did some old-fashioned policing the rest of the summer. Two months later I got a call: they had found them and waited on them to continue stealing using the same MO, until they had a large enough stash that they could be charged with a worse crime.
They had found my bag, my MacBook and my iPad. The smaller items had already been sold on the black market.
It still is one of my favourite hacker stories. I went to court as a witness and retold the whole thing. The look on the judge’s face was also priceless.
reaperducer7 hours ago
[-] Similar story for me. Except in Rome, and the ending wasn't happy because all I could do is watch my wife's iPhone go to Tunisia where it disappeared.
Still, in those very early days of "Find my" I could see how this was going to eventually change things.
Der_Einzige2 hours ago
[-] The one thing I like about the USA's significantly more violent culture is the idea that pickpockets will get the shit beat out of them or worse.
reply▲No one gets beaten up in the US.
They get shot.
Only if they're regular citizens. Somehow masked federal thugs don't get shot; somehow the 2nd Amendment gun-humpers who so opposed federal tyranny have disappeared.
reply▲We haven't disappeared. Look at Rep. Massie.
Quite the contrary. Events such as these reveal who really believe in a sovereign, free, people and who is just cosplaying.
For example, Pritti and Rittenhouse were completely within their rights to be armed at a protest.
Rittenhouse defended himself against a mob that started attacking him unprovoked; Pritti was executed by federal agents.
throwaway858252 hours ago
[-] This is a myth. The police will usually arrest the victim and the the criminal go because it's easier for them.
reply▲seanmcdirmid13 hours ago
[-] Thankfully you were in Switzerland rather than the states, I just never see American police caring about that.
reply▲ifwinterco12 hours ago
[-] Switzerland is the Singapore of Europe (I mean this in a good way!) - the state just functions in a way that other European countries can only dream of
reply▲seanmcdirmid11 hours ago
[-] I spent a couple of years in Lausanne so am aware. Swiss police don't mess around, you need to follow the rules if you want to live there.
reply▲I was robbed at a gas station in Jersey City and the police retrieved the airtagged backpack in 20 minutes. The police was fantastic.
reply▲alexjplant11 hours ago
[-] Depends on the jurisdiction.
One time I was driving down a twoo-lane road with a police car a few hundred feet behind me. An oncoming pickup truck veered several feet over the center line and almost hit me. I flagged the police down to tell them and they were nonplussed even though they literally saw it happen. Drunk driving, a greater threat than property theft, was of little consequence to them.
On the other side of the country my motorcycle got stolen and the police found it the next day. I picked it up from the tow yard shortly thereafter.
YMMV.
hshdhdhj444411 hours ago
[-] America is weirdly nonplussed by destruction and deaths caused by a car.
reply▲throwaway858252 hours ago
[-] Murder is legal if you do it by car. I don't know why anyone would ever try to hire a hitman.
reply▲My car got broken into in Oakland, California. Multiple pieces of luggage stolen (yes, my fault for leaving it in the car in the first place). Luckily I had an AirTag that showed the exact location of the stolen items. I called the police but they said they couldn't do anything. Apparently, even if I had the location the thief would have to invite them in. Regardless, I was put on a waiting list, they finally called me back 3 days later. I promptly left the state a few months later.
reply▲ahmeneeroe-v25 hours ago
[-] It's not your fault for leaving your property in your car. Wild to say that.
reply▲poulsbohemian59 minutes ago
[-] Ahem. There are neighborhoods in the US where you leave nothing in your car because otherwise your car will become a target. It's often "the rule" in these places that you also leave the doors unlocked because that way "they" won't break your window trying to get in. They open the door, see there's nothing of value to steal and move on. In other places in the US it's (still but fading) normal to leave your car doors unlocked because "everybody knows everybody and no one would steal from each other." Code switching is knowing which of the neighborhoods you are in and how to adapt.
reply▲Outside of some bad areas of some cities, in New England leaving property in cars is perfectly normal.
reply▲It 100% is if you live in or operate in a high crime area known for vehicle break-ins. Like OP of the comment.
reply▲Lived in the Bay Area for over two decades. Yeah, leaving a visible item in your car is just bait for the smash-and-grab crowd.
It sucks but once you know it, it would be like thinking you can just leave your wallet sitting on a counter.
You can also do that in high-functioning societies. In Japan people leave their purses, phones, etc to hold their seat before ordering in a café, going to the bathroom, etc.
reply▲jasonfarnon3 hours ago
[-] not "fault" in the sense of legal or ethical blame, but "fault" in the sense of stupid vs. smart thing to do
reply▲But it’s not a stupid thing to do either - if anything, normalizing crime sounds not optimal.
reply▲renewiltord5 hours ago
[-] I imagine they see it the way I do: the SF Bay Area has thieves like this because it's part of local native culture. You get the good with the bad. Sort of like going to the elephant graveyard and being eaten by hyena pack. Sure, it's not your fault for walking around graveyard and getting eaten by hyena. But this is where hyena is. I have lost (and sometimes recovered) many items to these hyena. Ultimately, they are not people or anything. They're like hyena. You don't say it is fault of hyena. It is animal and local culture is animal lover. Why stress about it? Like many, GP decided that he leave hyena here and go elsewhere where it is people and not animal.
reply▲trollbridge3 hours ago
[-] But the thieves actually are people, not "wildlife". And there is no reason to tolerate this kind of quality-of-life crime. Nobody is better off for it.
reply▲renewiltord43 minutes ago
[-] One way or the other, local culture is to do this. Yes, I agree it’s a negative sum choice. But they like it. It’s the same school of thought where a prison abolitionist didn’t report her gang rape:
https://www.thenation.com/article/society/why-i-didnt-report...It’s a coastal elite view.
As for whether they’re people and not wildlife as you put it, I suspect I’m more right than you are. Some of them have almost been acquitted because after killing people while robbing them it was offered as an explanation that they are too stupid to know that killing was bad.
https://sfist.com/2024/09/20/sf-jury-convicts-two-for-2017-m...
> Decuir and Mims were convicted last year of armed robbery, but a jury deadlocked on the first-degree murder charge, leading to this second trial… Attorneys also argued that she had a low IQ…
> the SF Bay Area has thieves like this because it's part of local native culture
You mean like Coast Miwok or Pomo?
renewiltord42 minutes ago
[-] I’m with you but local culture is to run arbitrary tests to see if you’re a “native” or not. The tests usually go back to high school or something.
reply▲trollbridge3 hours ago
[-] I generally believe it is not a crime victim's fault for being a victim of a crime, and the police services need to stop saying things that perpetrate this mindset.
reply▲> (yes, my fault for leaving it in the car in the first place).
It's not your fault. It's California's fault for tolerating a culture of criminality.
>Apparently, even if I had the location the thief would have to invite them in.
I mean, isn't that good? 4th amendment, warrants from a judge, and all that.
Presumably they could easily get a warrant with that information, if they cared to ask.
reply▲Victim meets with police, signs affidavit, prosecutor goes to judge with affidavit, warrant written specifically for those items only. Should be simple and even digital if we wanted it to be.
reply▲An airtag alone will never be enough for a search warrant. They are not accurate enough and don't prove any actual crime was committed (maybe someone found your looted backpack in the trash). If there was security camera footage of the theft or you knew the thief and the cops could verify where they lived, that could likely be enough.
reply▲jasonfarnon3 hours ago
[-] I guess the question would be how easy it is to fake this evidence. I don't know this tech. Could I throw my airtags in someone's bag and just take that to the police station and say look here on my phone, that's where my bags are, and then it's a he said/she said? Then the airtags aren't really adding anything to just your word "they took my bag".
reply▲Unrelated to airtags but last year a couple wheels were stolen off my brand new car. My city in California falls under county sheriff jurisdiction and they actually assigned a detective to the case.
Sadly even once he got the subpoena and other paperwork to track down the criminals through Facebook (they had listed my wheels two weeks later on Marketplace) he couldn't find them since they were using VPNs.
The police in Spain will also not care, in my experience. They acted completely helpless regardless of how much information I gave them.
My solution now is to travel very light.
Didn't they start chirping and alert the thief?
The anti-stalking measures with AirTags, while we all recognize why they're in place, also greatly reduce their value as anti-theft devices. I've gouged the speakers out of a few and hidden them in my vehicles, but if Apple makes that impossible to do with the new generation... no sale.
My local police would literally laugh at me if I made that call.
reply▲I do use airtags for this purpose. I also expect (and I read) that most police departments won't pay the slightest bit of attention to your reports.
reply▲traceroute6613 hours ago
[-] > most police departments won't pay the slightest bit of attention to your reports
Its sort of a combination of two reasons.
First in many cities, police departments are underfunded. And so running around looking for your stolen phone or whatever minor item is low on their to-do list compared to say, stopping the local drug-gangs from shooting their brains out.
Second, for minor thefts most insurance companies just need a quick box-tick "police crime report number" before paying out. So if the police know they can get you off their backs just by quickly giving you a report number, well....
> compared to say, stopping the local drug-gangs from shoting their brains out
I'm guessing people have that impression from TV, but it doesn't seem to match reality.
> the data suggests that officers spend relatively little time responding to major violent crimes: 4%, 3.7% and 4.1% in the three locations, respectively.
- https://www.freethink.com/society/how-police-spend-their-tim...
Which raises the obvious question: If they're not responding to either violent crimes or nonviolent crimes, what are they doing all day?
reply▲Just like that excellent Yes Minister episode about hospitals - I imagine they have more then enough internal busywork so they have no time for their customers. Which the older am I the more this seems true.
reply▲Donuts don't just eat themselves.
reply▲administration; paperwork et al. Don't you just like the modern technical bureaucratic apparatus?
reply▲reaperducer7 hours ago
[-] If they're not responding to either violent crimes or nonviolent crimes, what are they doing all day?According to a police administrator I once knew, filling out all the endless paperwork that makes the studies possible so people can complain about what little time cops spend fighting crime.
reply▲>stopping the local drug-gangs from shooting their brains out.
Thats a good thing tho, its the problem(s) solving themselves.
And it's probably under your deductible anyway. And replacing various cards is your deal with your credit card etc. companies. Relatively few of us carry around a lot of cash.
reply▲I also know from experience that Zurich police will chase an AirTag location with vigor.
reply▲That sounds... unique from everything I've heard.
reply▲seanmcdirmid13 hours ago
[-] Switzerland sends in swat for noise complaints, they would definitely care about a thief that could be caught.
reply▲Is it all over or just some parts of the countries? I ask, amused, since I have never been there except a 2 day trip to Geneva in 1992 or so.
reply▲jules-jules9 hours ago
[-] Some Kantons are more easy going than others but overall the police are not to fuck around with.
reply▲That's awesome. I'm glad that trackers have reached a price point, reliability and form factors that I can easily put one in everything I care about. I even have card ones in my wallet, my steam deck / e-reader case, etc.
Also, most of these have usb-c / wireless charging, so I don't have to mess with random cell batteries every 6 months.
Given that the battery in my Airtag lasts about a year, I'd rather have to exchange a CR2032 once per year than to buy a new tracker whenever the built-in rechargeable battery inevitably dies. (I think there are actually rechargeable CR2032s too – best of both worlds?)
reply▲trollbridge3 hours ago
[-] There are, and I got cursed with a BMW that uses one of them. Eventually after 10+ years it finally dies, and it's basically impossible to replace and actually make it work again, so I just have to replace the 2032 in it every few months.
reply▲> I called the Zurich Police and, as the thief kept moving, I told them where he was. Twenty minutes later I received a call from the police informing me that they had found my suitcase with my belongings, matching the description I had given.
So refreshing to hear. Here in the UK the police would be annoyed by your call and at best would give you crime ref number (usually after mentioning that you will file a complaint if they don't) to take up with your insurance provider.
yeah this should be the standard, same here in Australia unfortunately the police will just pretend to care by taking more information and then does nothing.
reply▲I had a camera stolen on a Zürich streetcar and when I reported it to the police they acted like it was the first crime that had ever been reported in the canton, a very serious matter indeed.
reply▲Did you tell them that you have a particular set of… tags?
reply▲logicalfails13 hours ago
[-] > The new AirTag is designed with the environment in mind, with 85 percent recycled plastic in the enclosure, 100 percent recycled rare earth elements in all magnets, and 100 percent recycled gold plating in all Apple-designed printed circuit boards. The paper packaging is 100 percent fiber-based and can be easily recycled.
I'm no material scientist, but this seems pretty impressive to me that Apple's economy of scale can pull this off, and upgrade the device capabilities, for less than $30 USD.
Building an attachment point into the tag itself is still beyond current technology though. We just don't know how to do it.
reply▲The fundamental issue preventing keyring aperture integration stems from the AirTag’s reliance on inverse-phase magnetic reluctance in the structural substrate.
You see, the enclosure maintains a precisely calibrated coefficient offramular expansion. Introducing a penetrative void would destabilize the sinusoidal depleneration required for proper UWB phase conjugation. The resulting spurving bearing misalignment could induce up to 40 millidarkness of signal attenuation.
Apple’s engineers attempted to compensate using prefabulated amulite in the magneto-reluctance housing, but this only exacerbated the side-fumbling in the hyperboloid waveform generators. Early prototypes with keyring holes exhibited catastrophic unilateral dingle-arm failure within mere minutes of deployment.
Until we develop lotus-o-delta-type bearings capable of withstanding the differential girdle spring modulation, I’m afraid keyring integration remains firmly in the realm of theoretical engineering—right up there with perpetual motion machines and TypeScript projects that compile without any // @ts-ignore comments.
The technology simply isn’t there yet.
reply▲nasretdinov13 hours ago
[-] I must say you had me in the first couple sentences :). Also does look like it's not an LLM-generated text either. Good job!
reply▲nerdsniper13 hours ago
[-] Indeed, LLM's still suck at the cultural nuance required for humor. It's like they're writing for an audience that's too generic, so the joke doesn't truly "land" for anyone in particular.
reply▲You really don’t want to accidentally frobnicate the turbo encabulator.
reply▲It's all ball bearings nowadays!
reply▲Of course the offramular expansion is what makes all the Fleeb Juice a key aspect of Find My. That and the lack of a substantive in the name.
reply▲rumors are the airtag promax has it for $99.
reply▲Sadly the polishing cloth doesn't work on that one
reply▲next_xibalba13 hours ago
[-] > attempted to compensate using prefabulated amulite in the magneto-reluctance housing, but this only exacerbated the side-fumbling in the hyperboloid waveform generators
Wrote my PhD dissertation on this. It would've been in the literature for Apple's engineers to find, but unfortunately I lost institutional support to get this into a journal after my college (Mailorderdegrees.com, an FTX University^TM) folded mid-process.
You missed the "strategic use of metamaterials to emanate a negative refractive index"
reply▲I think the point is to make the smallest unit of functionality possible and then people can integrate that into their use case using attachments, casings, etc. in a way they see fit. It's a good approach for this product in my opinion.
reply▲I think this argument would work better if the AirTag in its minimal form wasn't so teardrop-shaped. It feels almost like it was designed to be difficult to integrate into other environments because it lacks any edges or openings. It ensures that anything that could hold it must be at least as big as the AirTag itself. It really confuses me why they couldn't even allow for a single small hole in its edge - it would still leave attachment up to the user, but make it far more flexible by letting people just hook it onto things. Is it because design had overpowered functionality in this product? Is it because this shape is somehow mandated by the hardware within it? It confuses me.
reply▲ > I think this argument would work better if the AirTag in its minimal form wasn't so teardrop-shaped.
That shape is symbolic of the tears of those who wish nothing more than to track where they've left their keys.
An Apple product in which design takes precedence over usability. Imagine that.
reply▲chrisfinazzo7 hours ago
[-] This might also explain why the first party luggage loop accessory seems to have been (unfortunately) memory-holed. I
think third parties still sell them out of excess inventory, but they've been harder to come by in recent times.
My current carry-on doesn't have large enough attachment points to easily accommodate the Apple leather case's keyring, so an updated loop would have been welcome.
Mine is duct taped inside the inner liner of the carryon that has a small zipper for cleaning.
reply▲traceroute6612 hours ago
[-] > Building an attachment point into the tag
To be fair, most people I know put their AirTag inside something, e.g. inner pocket of a bag.
At which point the necessity for an attachment point becomes somewhat moot.
Same. I've never seen anyone put an AirTag on a keyring.
Oh, wait...
That attachment loop costs more per unit than the dual-protocol tags themselves that another commentator mentioned.
reply▲traceroute6613 hours ago
[-] Dude... not cool to put your Amazon `ref` link in there....
reply▲nathancahill13 hours ago
[-] It's not theirs, internal Amazon stuff. Also, plug for Firefox and the Copy Clean Link function.
reply▲Yeah &ref= is for analytics, affiliate referrals use &tag=.
reply▲But I got my pitchfork out and everything! How dare someone try and make money to pay their bills!
reply▲MengerSponge3 hours ago
[-] My father-in-law is a builder. It is difficult to get his attention in a magnificent space because he is lost in wonder. We were in an Apple Store together years ago and I asked him what it would cost to build an attachment point to the tag itself. I will never forget his answer… 'We can’t, we don’t know how to do it'
reply▲Different people want different attachment types (or no attachment point at all), so it makes sense for that to be external. I've used other trackers with integrated attachment points, and because the attachment point has to be very compact it tends to be flimsy or hard to fit.. vs the Apple one where you can add a larger attachment point that makes sense to you.
reply▲peddling-brink13 hours ago
[-] Are you trying to say that the AirTag is so strictly utilitarian, that they couldn’t have found a spot for a lanyard hole?
I disagree, they could have, they didn’t want to. Beyond the look, this sure panders to their accessory partners.
How big of an industry is the phone case? Should it even exist? The audacity.
Right? Nokias had the equivalent of today's "case" built right into the design of the unit, plenty of durable plastic around the vulnerable parts -- the phone would've been considered unfit for sale if it couldn't survive a drop in out-of-the-box condition.
By the time you stripped a dumbphone down to be as vulnerable as one of today's is, it'd be a bare PCB. Nah, probably even in that state, I bet it could handle a drop better than a new iPhone straight out of the box.
What you buy today isn't a complete phone, it's just the guts. One tumble to pavement and you're out a grand. Heaven help you if you fumble it while trying to install the case that should've been part of it from the beginning.
And yet, we still buy them, because the alternatives are from shady manufacturers who never provide updates, and there is no third-party hardware that can run up-to-date iOS. If there was, I'd buy an iNokia in a heartbeat.
I'm carrying my 13 Pro without a case, to see it's Alpine Green glory and feel the matte finish on the back. It's been perfectly fine for the last almost 4 years, some minor scratches on the steel edges I fixed with a sandpaper, there is one recent scratch on the screen and that's all. Otherwise it looks good, just a bit used. Has fallen multiple times from pocket when sitting, and a dozen times from tables, few times onto pavement (that's what needed sanding).
Almost every single one "case" for iPhone is a waste. Waste of material, waste of space, waste of your money, waste of user experience. You've already paid for a perfectly good phone, and then slapped some $[1]0.99 case on it to gain nothing but pain and vanity.
I only had one case on a phone, that made it better - original wooden case for 1+3T. Been looking for same experience on iPhone, but it's not possible due to shape -- they are all bulky. The closest thing is carbon-fiber cases, and I had one, which saved this iPhone when I dropped it onto slanted pavement, where it slid for a few meters screen down, ruining the case, but saving the screen.
Would I drop it if I wasn't using a case, that has parts sticking out, making the phone more cumbersome to use and carry? Unlikely, because it happened in the first year owning it, and I've been going caseless since then and nothing similar happened.
I dropped my flagship Samsung S24U one time. I was running and it slipped out of my back pocket.
That 1 meter fall resulted in calls unable to be placed, USB charging and ABD does not work, and the microphone for the voice recorder does not work. All that indicates that the daughterboard cable was displaced. But the unworking rear camera indicates that there is a second fault in there as well.
Not to mention the alarmingly large dent in the corner, that shattered the screen protector and likely would have resulted in the screen itself having shattered if no protector were on it.
New phones are designed to break. Contrast with my Note 3 that I carried for 8 years without so much as cracking the screen once.
Yes, the phone case industry should exist. People want different things. Plenty of people are willing to go without a case entirely. For those who want a case, they want different tradeoffs between bulk and protection. They want different textures. It's OK to sell something that isn't all things to all people.
reply▲Somebody take an x-ray so where know where to drill our own holes.
reply▲reply▲> For the initial disassembly, the AirTag is said to be the hardest to open to access the battery. Though all three could be opened by hand, the AirTag is suggested to be the hardest due to the lack of divots for grip.
Does the author lack thumbs? It’s easy to twist the battery open.
renewiltord16 minutes ago
[-] I get some AirTags opened easily and others are harder. We have more than ten AirTags in the family and I have experienced quite a range of torque and force required. This could be because of gunk over time, though, which wouldn’t be something these guys faced.
reply▲The lack of a divot prevents iFixit from selling an overpriced single use tool that exactly matches the divot shape for $50 USD that just so happens to be the exact same shape and material as a $0.05 guitar pick. Totally unacceptable, won't anyone think of the environment?!?!?!?!
reply▲There are third-party tags out there compatible with both Google and Apple's network that is roughly the same size and use the same battery, yet have a
giant lanyard opening in the design to fit anything.
Apple could trivially have fit a usable hole if they wanted to. They just don't want to because they get to sell accessories with that now. Also, looking cleaner on its own helps sell even if that is an entirely useless quality for a tag tha tneeds to go into a bloody case.
Do the third-party tags have all the same features, size, capabilities, range, durability, etc.? Or have they made other tradeoffs instead of eliding the attachment point?
reply▲Recycled metals have always been cost effective. Recycled plastic is much more expensive than virgin plastic, but it's a very small materials cost to start with, likely totaling only a few cents.
reply▲How does that compare to previous AirTag? Whats the industry baseline for all of those, maybe gold is 100% recycled anyways in most products?
reply▲This is a great question. For example, the Pixel 10 has a similar recycling profile, although with less recycled plastic.
reply▲colechristensen13 hours ago
[-] The wholesale material costs for the plastic, gold plating, and magnets is all just pennies, if that.
reply▲This is just green washing on the level of “93.65% natural ingredients”.
reply▲What level of materials recycling would be required for you to not consider it green washing?
It’s a genuine question, since I don’t like Apple and agree that we buy tons of stuff we don’t really need. That said, our bicycles can’t be insured anymore, but having AirTags at least alleviates some of the angst over leaving them in public places.
Recycled plastics actually produce microplastics more than virgin plastics do. Some studies on recycled polyester garments found that they dump an additional 50% more or so into the environment than non-recycled polyester fabrics. And those non-recycled fabrics already release enormous quantities over their lifespan into the water supply and open air (via your dryer exhaust) already.
Dumb example for the sake of discussion, you could understand why recycled plutonium would not be a healthy thing to weave a sweater out of. It's less about the recycling and more about the material itself.
reaperducer13 hours ago
[-] This is just green washing on the level of “93.65% natural ingredients”.I keep seeing products in the supermarket with big "Made with REAL ingredients!" labels on them.
As opposed to what? Imaginary ingredients?
Classico pasta sauce is the most recent offender.
reply▲ExoticPearTree13 hours ago
[-] Chemicals. That’s what they mean by real ingredients: no chemicals.
Like orange juice: can be from a chemical powder or real oranges.
snowwrestler12 hours ago
[-] This is a good example of how easy it is to fool people if they don’t have their own understanding of how things work.
Highlighting this has been a priority in my parenting. My child is having a great time trying to scare friends about the dangers of the chemical dihydrogen monoxide, which is found in a surprisingly large number of manufactured foods.
ExoticPearTree11 hours ago
[-] Right. And wonder bread is awesome for your health.
reply▲snowwrestler10 hours ago
[-] Wonder Bread is horrible for your health, but it’s not because of “chemicals.”
Orange juice is also bad for your health BTW!
array_key_first11 hours ago
[-] Nobody said it was. But it's not bad because of chemicals, because all bread is created with chemicals.
As for natural versus artificial - that's also bullshit. There's many natural ingredients that are poison, and many artificial ones that are good for you.
I mean, if I eat home made fried chicken everyday, you can bet your ass I'm not gonna live very long.
reaperducer9 hours ago
[-] Asbestos is all natural.
reply▲Don't forget poison ivy, amanita mushrooms, and box jellyfish.
reply▲But that's total nonsense. Everything in our physical world (including water, air, food, and human bodies) is made of chemicals. They can be naturally occurring or artificially manufactured.
reply▲ExoticPearTree11 hours ago
[-] You can nitpick and be pedantic about the wording I used, but if you equate artificial flavors or ingredients with natural ones…
reply▲Could you describe the difference between the artificial flavour vanilin made in a lab, and the natural flavour vanilin extracted from a vanilla bean?
reply▲Is it really pedantic? Everything is ultimately a chemical compound. H2O is a chemical. Where do you draw the line between "chemicals" and "not chemicals"? Is it more about what you can find in nature? You can find acetone in nature.
reply▲yeah, this is kind of a definitional example of pedantry. you probably understand what people are trying to say when they talk about "chemicals" but instead of engaging with the actual conversation, you spin off a metanarrative to pick apart the word choice as if that's directly relevant to the point they're trying to discuss.
not trying to pick on you specifically, because sure everything's a chemical, and i don't really care to fight about that, but you asked :)
"Chemical" is just a really, really vague and poor word choice. I honestly don't understand what people are trying to say when they use it. Food and chemistry are inextricably intertwined. You can't even talk about food without talking about all of the various components food is made up of. Not a single food item out there isn't made up of chemicals. Some found in nature, some created in a lab or factory process. Some healthy, some not. Some with long names, some with short names. Some have effects on food taste, longevity, appearance. Some are inert. It's really a meaningless word to use in the context of one's food.
reply▲It’s never possible for things to be good with people like you. It’s not 100% recycled, which would be better. But surely, this is better than 0% recycled??
reply▲Ironically, it's worse. I just wrote another comment about this. Recycled plastics carry more toxic load and shed more (and more fragmented) microplastics into the environment. Recycled plastics only win out on carbon emissions.
Moral of the story: plastic is just not good. Avoid buying things made out of ANY kind plastic if you are going to regularly wash and mechanically agitate them. You won't eliminate 100% of washed plastic in your life, but it's surprisingly easy to get rid of 80% of it without sacrificing quality of life.
CGMthrowaway12 hours ago
[-] I don't see old-gen airtags for sale on the website. Are they throwing them all out?
reply▲mambo_giro12 hours ago
[-] Apple rarely offers direct discounts of closeout or excess merchandise. Instead to clear out back stock they’ll work with partner retailers (Amazon, Best Buy, etc.) who don’t mind the brand perception associated with offering deeper discounts.
First-gen AirTags have been on sale on Amazon frequently over the last year, and they’ll probably drop the price again soon.
I'd be a little wary of these numbers as regulation around advertising these kinds of figures normally permits mass balance systems[0] (which imo is tantamount to straight-up lying).
Mass balance is better than nothing I guess, & I understand the practical challenges with going further, but ultimately it's not what's implied by the marketing.
[0] https://www.iscc-system.org/news/mass-balance-explained/
Just stating the obvious that not buying one of these things that we never seemed to need until they told us we needed it is the only way to have "the environment in mind".
reply▲actuallyalys2 hours ago
[-] This feels like a good tradeoff as far as gadgets go. It doesn’t take finding that many objects for it to make up the energy cost to manufacture the AirTag.
They do require periodic battery replacements but I imagine it’s still a net savings or pretty negligible cost. I’d love to see a more formal analysis, though.
reaperducer13 hours ago
[-] Just stating the obvious that not buying one of these thing that we never seemed to need until they told us we needed itI never thought I needed one until my wife lost her car keys, and the Fiat dealer charged $1,200 for a replacement.
And it's not even the electronics that makes them so expensive. Modern car keys aren't like the 1970's where it's just a piece of metal with the edges shaved off. Those little key cutting kiosks at Home Depot can't cope with today's complex engraving.
reply▲I have cats. I can’t count on things being where I left them.
reply▲> one of these things that we never seemed to need until they told us we needed it
Found the guy who literally never leaves his studio apartment and has thus never lost baggage, keys, etc.
Unfortunately the anti-stalking features have made Airtag mostly useless for theft prevention. You have less than an hour to retrieve your item before the tag alerts the thief they are being tracked. I've seen it trigger as quickly as 30 minutes.
reply▲LeoPanthera40 minutes ago
[-] > Unfortunately the anti-stalking features have made Airtag mostly useless for theft prevention.
While this is true, Airtags are not designed for theft prevention, and never have been. They're designed to locate lost items.
Apple should be applauded for making the only tracking tags with literally any kind of anti-stalking features at all.
Damned if they do, damned if they don’t.
Initially they didn’t have it, people complained, now they do, and people still complain.
Considering theft is a property crime and stalking is often a prelude to much worse, I think they made the right choice.
reply▲I'm not taking any position on this, but some data to chew on concerning the US. There are roughly fourteen million cases of larceny in the US every year, and between three and four million cases of stalking in the US every year. Rate of violence with larceny is roughly 1% whereas rate of violence with stalking averages 30%. Threats of violence with stalking occurs in about three out of every four cases, if I recall.
Of course, there is an implicit bias with measuring stalking as "peaceful" stalkers who never get caught leave no evidence. Unlike theft which always leaves evidence by its nature (the thing is gone).
burnt-resistor2 hours ago
[-] Wrong bothsidesism. The right choice was making a functional product. This is not that.
reply▲> Damned if they do, damned if they don’t.
So you can either keep a tag on your stuff that lets anyone know where you are at all times, or just not misplace your keys. It really doesn't seem that hard to not use something this privacy intrusive if that's your threat model.
ZekeSulastin1 hour ago
[-] That's not the complaint at all - the complaint is that, because of the anti-stalking measures added at the original launch, the AirTags can't be used to track stolen items because the thieves will be notified that they are being "stalked".
reply▲How would airtags work as theft prevention? Airtags only enter the equation once something has already been stolen.
reply▲I think "theft recovery" is probably meant.
reply▲Setting expectations and thinning the herd. If even half of items had a well hidden air tag, and the cops successfully followed up even half of tagged thefts:
There would a. be less dumb criminals around to repeat offend and b. The smarter would-be criminals will do the calculus and and not steal items which could have tags.
johncolanduoni4 hours ago
[-] How useful is a GPS position for theft prevention? IME cops are not interested in doing more than filing a report after a theft, even if you have a live GPS location of the item for them. Do you try and go get it yourself?
reply▲i can speak to this as i had my motorcycle stolen on NYE last year in Santa Monica with an airtag in it. the Santa Monica police said “smart, but it’s in LA so we can’t help you get it. tell the LAPD.”. it took me seven hours of calls to the LAPD while personally hunting down my bike in the shadiest areas of LA, and being a block away from getting it myself, did they come. so yes, if you’re in LA, you basically get it yourself.
in my case, the damage was so much i wish i had just left it stolen and taken the bigger insurance payout.
burnt-resistor2 hours ago
[-] In Austin, they won't lift a finger because they're underfunded and don't have the resources to address nonviolent crime.
reply▲Interesting, I hadn't considered theft recovery to be a use case for Airtags before. I've only used them for "where the hell did that X go".
reply▲To be fair, you'd likely ask that exact question if your X was stolen!
reply▲What happens after that? It goes dark? Or it just alerts the thief (stalker victim)?
reply▲I have only seen the Google side, just a single time when one of my Chipolos threw an alert on my passenger's Samsung.
My Chipolo certainly still works.
There are [cheap] tags being sold that are compatible with both Apple Find My and Google's Find Hub. I would rather have a dual-network device than Apple's improved model.
Would it be so difficult for Apple to put a hole in the Airtag so it could be directly attached to a keychain?
Here is an example of dual-network tags:
https://www.amazon.com/Tracker-Locator-Android-Bluetooth-Fin...
venusenvy472 hours ago
[-] Do the Apple/Google "multi-tags" support the UWB precision finding from the phones?
reply▲Do these tags need to be configured on both networks to support both protocols? If I own an Android device and configure it there, will Apple devices still find the tag? How does that work?
reply▲The Chipolos that I have purchased appear on my phone when first presented, then do not offer to pair to other users' Find Hubs unless I deregister.
I imagine that Airtag functionality is disabled when Find Hub configures these tags.
I have heard in the commentary here that Chipolo is now making dual-network devices, but only one can be active at a time.
Apple has a larger and more sensitive network, so uses requiring tracking quality would lean that way.
I would prefer to find a tag that can be provisioned on both networks. I don't know if any actually work that way.
I'd also like a tag that would let me take it apart and disable the speaker. For my car, that seems appropriate, if I can also find a placement location which is extremely difficult to access.
Edit: Google is saying that "they generally require switching between networks rather than operating on both simultaneously."
Seems like apple is licensing usage of their Bluetooth protocol/scheme via the "MFi program".
https://developer.apple.com/find-my/
> Would it be so difficult for Apple to put a hole in the Airtag so it could be directly attached to a keychain?
Yes. It is surprisingly a near impossible engineering challenge at the levels Apple hardware is being done. Have you even considered the wear and tear that a mere hole in an ABS plastic molded detail would be subjected to over the lifespan of...several years?
(Just kidding, obviously they just want to upsell their customers with extremely overpriced accessories.)
It sends alerts to the thief's iPhone or Android (if you have Apple's Tracker Detect Android app) that they are being tracked within 30 to 60 minutes. It also enables the beeping so the thief can find and remove the Airtag.
If the Airtag can't reach the thief's phone, it starts chirping by itself within an 8-24 hour window.
Do you have more info about this? Never heard it before
reply▲What airtags need is a theft mode, where anyone carrying the airtag is not alerted, but the location can be retrieved by an approved local authority after being voluntarily surrendered by the owner.
reply▲fartfeatures1 hour ago
[-] Wouldn't even be hard for Apple to implement, they already do this for airlines.
reply▲The challenge is how you prevent such features being abused by like stalkers
reply▲fartfeatures1 hour ago
[-] Whitelisting law enforcement so when the owner of the air tag declares it stolen nobody other than a whitelisted law enforcement org could view its location and when they did that creates an audit log?
reply▲This implies a level of trust in law enforcement. As a US citizen, hard pass.
reply▲It would be nice if this could tie in to actively altering enforcement when it's turned on, maybe even require sharing with authorities for it to be enabled: the stalker would have to collaborate with police in order to stalk the victim.
reply▲It sounds like the external dimensions are going to be exactly the same or nearly so. I'm hoping the battery compartment is also identical so that third-party mounting and extended battery packs continue to work.
I recently picked up a few of these extended battery packs and it would be nice to eventually upgrade the AirTag if the extended range turns out to be meaningful. They're pretty neat, you remove the battery cover completely and only insert the half of the AirTag with the electronics and radio.
https://www.elevationlab.com/products/timecapsule
blazarquasar5 hours ago
[-] Their description does say “Works with AirTag generation 1 & 2.”
Thanks for putting me on to these. Really clever products. I always feel stupid with my airtag dangling off of my camera.
reply▲Didn’t know that external battery packs were a thing. That could be super useful.
reply▲Yeah, I picked them up along with some AA lithium (non-rechargeable) batteries. I also didn't know those batteries existed until recently. I knew there were rechargeable lithium AAs with a charge plug and charging circuitry built into each little cylinder, but I've heard mostly bad reviews of those.
These non-rechargeable ones have pretty good reviews though, and apparently last much longer than normal AAs (both in terms of capacity and storage). I'll probably start putting them in the handful of things I've got that still take AAs.
FigurativeVoid13 hours ago
[-] Probably one of the best products apple has made of late: relatively affordable, good ux, user replaceable batteries. Glad to see this iteration hasn't made it worse.
reply▲> relatively affordable
You can buy 4 third-party trackers for the price of 1 official one.
They do lack UWB, though there are other great form factors such as cards, and cool features such as wireless charging or usb-c charging, which imo is nicer than swapping batteries every few months.
I have a third-party tracker and the AirTag in my bicycle. The third-party tracker has no clue what it’s doing or meant to do. But then again, the AirTag is completely inaudible in a decently-sized bicycle parking garage.
reply▲i thought so too, but in practice i've been getting much better battery life from the official airtag on my keychain, than i do from the "atuvos" trackers that see much less use. high-precision UWB finding and half as many coin cells used makes the airtag an easy choice over the cheaper trackers for me.
the card-shaped one i've got in my wallet isn't going to be replaced by an official airtag any time soon though, that form factor is too nice.
The reliability of the other brands are quite poor though. I've tried Tile, I've tried Pebble (using Google's network) and neither has worked reliability enough. So I ended up switching to AirTags and so far I have been impressed with the reliability - it works 100% of the time which is not something I could say about Tile nor Pebble/Google.
reply▲Do they plug into the Find My network that iOS devices use?
reply▲Yep, Tile I believe is the only third party service that exists. All other trackers either plug into "Apple Find My" or "Android Find My Device" network. There's finally starting to be a few devices that can do both, but they're rare, so make sure you get the right one when buying. But they take 10s to setup and it's very smooth.
reply▲haneefmubarak9 hours ago
[-] Any names or recs on the ones that can do both? Can they do both simultaneously?
reply▲Samsung trackers also use their own network.
reply▲insane_dreamer12 hours ago
[-] Tiles are about the same price as AirTags (at least they were last time I bought some)
reply▲prodigycorp13 hours ago
[-] Apple of late is a mystery. Their software and hardware product quality is wildly inconsistent and, yet, with the most simplest of hardware like AirTags and AirPods, they're like magic. iPhones, I could hardly care less about. These new airtags? Insta buy!
reply▲throwfaraway413 hours ago
[-] reply▲yes, apple has a LOT of hidden complexity. Another example is their dongles - many of them have significant processing power, like video conversion chips inside the shell.
reply▲Apple’s headphones adapter contains very high quality output and driver hardware. Their basic software usability quality problems simply shortchange everyone involved.
reply▲The quality would be better if those weren't needed, though.
reply▲Airpods are a great example of good UX making things seem simple. There's a ridiculous amount of engineering that goes into making them work as well as they do.
reply▲I can see it in AirTags, but, haven't used AirPods myself, what is so "magical" about them?
Also, my understanding is that AirTags are only usable if you have an iPhone, am I wrong?
singularity200113 hours ago
[-] That just work. I know it sounds simple but if you have been burned by Bluetooth devices before again and again get unburned by AirPods. Also, they stick in my ear even though all other headsets with cable fell out. I don´t know how
reply▲They're just expensive. If you spend the same amount on Sony earbuds or another good brand, they also work fine.
reply▲Maybe I got lucky, but I never had issues with my Bose, Shokz, or even with my Soundcore headphones and bluetooth. I don't use in ear, so I can not comment on that.
reply▲From what I've read, it's an accumulation of small details.
I have a pair of Soundcore buds, and they work well. Unless only one of the two decides to not connect to the phone. Or they randomly decide to change the noise cancellation setting. Or their gesture detection randomly triggers. To be fair, it's pretty rare and easy to fix: put them back in the case and back out, etc. But it's small things that remind me "yeah, I did not shell out for AirPods". (also, their transparency mode for conversations is nigh useless, but it may be because those are a 4 year old model).
I regularily use a pair of Sony headphones too, and they are a bit less troublesome, because it's a much simpler product: a single BT connection, physical buttons for some quick controls, etc. But they still have their warts: can't charge and be used at the same time, handoff between two source devices still don't work after years, etc.
It's an accumulation of details that are not big, happen rarely, and don't need much to get used to. But they still need to get used to.
Yep but with AirPods, you are listening music or watching a video, on your Mac, your iPhone rings (on your AirPods), you accept the call, and now the video is paused on your Mac and your AirPods are already connected to your iPhone.
Any time any of the registered devices needs to emit sound, the AirPods instantly switch to this device (and both devices will show an unobtrusive notification to reverse the auto switch).
And it works every. single. time.
Apple can't make Airdrop work reliably after decades but somehow, they are able to magically and instantly transfer bluetooth audio from a device to another device.
Though, if you use your airpods with anything non apple, it will juste work like a classical bluetooth device, with manual pairing and no magic switching.
That is a great point. Airdrop on my iphone currently has this weird bug where if I try and airdrop directly to a target (eg my laptop) it doesn't work, but if I go into airdrop and select the exact same target, works fine. This is even weirder because it's followed me between phones (I restored from icloud backup). Yet, yeah, my airpods are fine at switching.
reply▲I've used them with my iPad. I don't have a Mac, but I would guess they work with any Find My-capable machine.
reply▲AirPods are great! You can use them with an Android, and it will let you know there's AirPods travelling with you every time!
reply▲That is correct. With the iPhone at home, you keep getting "Unknown tracker found travelling with you" spam on your Android, and the AirTag rings occasionally.
I would not call that usable.
tacker200013 hours ago
[-] How are Airtags or Airpods simple?
Cramming lots of tech into a small footprint is an extremely complex affair.
Apple is a big company. I’d be more surprised if they were completely consistent.
reply▲FigurativeVoid13 hours ago
[-] I've started to dislike the narrative that "Apple never leads the pack, but it waits to release the best product."
But that hasn't been true for a decade. Most improvements have been marginal, and they totally missed the boat on LLMs.
To be fair, I think everyone but Google has been missing the boat on LLMs as platform integrations.
I call out Google as an exception because Gemini when it works correctly from an integration point of view can actually do some cool stuff like predictive suggestions in messaging based on context, though I wish it was all on device stuff, as on a privacy level I don’t trust Google
That said, it’s not like they’re so far and above anyone else they blow the competition out of the water either, they simply managed to make the functionality sometimes useful
LLMs are way outside their lane. With that said they've been focused on the underlying components to enable LLMs since way before ChatGPT was on the scene: Unified Memory, Neural Accelerator, even Spotlight counts (as a data source), etc...
There was no world where they were going to be the breakthrough leader in LLM development. That's a problem they can catch up on when they need to or license the technology.
postexitus13 hours ago
[-] Why should Apple care about LLMs? They missed the boat on cloud, cryptocurrencies and on search engines. So what? It's not their business - they can just license a good offering and move on to what they do best : Products.
reply▲Would privatizing police help?
I have requested theft a number of times, even presented video footage. I was surprised they ask you fill out bureaucratic paperwork and at the end they do nothing, after all these taxes we pay in Europe.
So they made it impossible to remove speaker, destroying its usability as a theft tracking device. One could add an airtag with a removed speaker on a bike/scooter/car and then localize it in case of theft. With the new airtag any thief will be quickly notified they are tracked.
reply▲There's an inherent conflict between use as a theft tracking device, and use as a stalking device. Both situations are pretty indistinguishable. Apple is prioritizing reducing the AirTag's utility to stalkers.
reply▲Again prioritizing low cardinality event (stalking) instead of high cardinality event (theft) because of "security", making the device mostly pointless, good only to quickly locate some thing at home (assuming battery still holds after the thing being forgotten for years in a closet).
reply▲They are prioritizing safety both personal and litigious. Apple markets it as a way to find lost things, not stolen things. There are trackers you can buy for tracking stolen things. I'm only familiar with ones designed for cars but I'm sure there are others as well.
reply▲"Again prioritizing low cardinality event (stalking) instead of high cardinality event (theft)"
I don't think you can speak to the relative likelihood of these with any confidence. There are lots of people for whom stalking is a much bigger problem than theft.
Stalking has likelihood of being life threatening, property can’t be life threatening.
reply▲That's a personal preference. I have like 12 AirTags and find them quite useful. The precise indoor tracking functionality is great. Losing/misplacing something happens a lot more to me than theft. Though I do have an airtag I've removed the speaker from, so could be useful in a theft situation.
reply▲It's useful to help locate things both at home and when traveling. But, yes, optimizing for potential theft recovery conflicts with disabling stalking and, however uncommon, the latter got a lot of publicity, so it's something Apple etc. wanted to focus on (especially given that, in most places, theft prevention probably wasn't very effective anyway).
reply▲A train is barreling down the tracks while you stand at a switch. Do nothing and the train will destroy dozens of bicycles. If you pull the switch the train will kill one woman you've never met.
You sure you still wanna pull that switch?
The false dichotomy you present does not become any more credible in the form of a thought experiment.
reply▲I think you'll find it's not so much about how likely the event is (stalking vs theft) as it is about the potential impact of the event.
The things you want to "protect" with an invisible AirTag are, at their core "just stuff".
The things being protected by not selling an invisible AirTag are, at their core "people".
Apple has removed all mention of theft tracking from their site once they added the stalking protection. Airtag is for people who lose things, not finding stolen things. You have less than an hour before an Airtag alerts a thief they are being tracked.
reply▲That is also true for thieves looking to steal your vehicle by finding where you live, so it is an unfortunate intersection of crime and crime prevention.
There are much better options for vehicle tracking and theft prevention so I would personally prefer it to be harder for thieves or stalkers to track using these very easy to get devices.
We don't need to risk having people stalked/tracked just so you can play pretend sheriff.
reply▲imoverclocked5 hours ago
[-] > Find My makes it easy to locate AirTag, Apple devices, and compatible third-party devices
The other side of this is that it can't be used to slip into someone's purse as they leave the bar and then be tracked unknowingly.
Apple leaves the door open for manufacturers to implement an anti-theft device into their goods that address both concerns.
Apple decided its better to not enable stalkers and get bad press for that. From tne point of view of the tracker anti theft and stalking are kinda the same. This mirrors yesterdays one about efuses btw
reply▲I wish they made airtags in different form factors.
I've gotten into photography lately. I'd love to slip an airtag into more places - ideally within the housing of my camera bodies themselves. But, there's not really any room to put an airtag on or in a camera given the current airtag form factor.
You can get camera cages with secret compartments for airtags. And lens caps which take an airtag. But they take up a lot of space, and end up adding a lot of bulk to the camera itself. I wish Apple opened airtags up to 3rd party manufacturers who could buy the (tiny) circuit board directly, so they could hide it in their products better.
ShakataGaNai3 hours ago
[-] The better solution is the route that Insta360 took with the Go Ultra. The camera has embedded "Find My" technology. No Airtag or hiding things required, the entire camera
is the tag.
All we need to do is get more camera companies to follow suit.
my parents live in Russia and my grandma has alzheimer's, so as a present "for her" I bought an airtag - so in case my mom loses grandma in a crowd she can be found.
Little did I know, GPS jammers around the city make my grandma appear 50km away.
Not Apple's fault of course.
AirTag itself doesn't have GPS, of course. It depends on the devices that communicate with the AirTag having precise location. IF you have a phone in Russia, are your maps apps off by 50km these days?
reply▲I would assume the inaccuracy is due to the various phones that pick up the airtag pings GPS being jammed, reporting AirTags nowhere near where they actually are.
reply▲Makes sense. Would be pretty cool if Apple could find a way to correct GPS jamming using accelerometers and some logic. If your GPS location jump 50 kilometers in 2 minutes, ignore GPS and use cell tower + accelerometer. Maybe create some sort of mesh network, using other phones and nearby SSIDs to get a makeshift location positioning.
That does come with the risk of Tim Cook falling out of a window.
kube-system12 hours ago
[-] Most current phones already use these techniques (and more) just simply to account for poor signals, which have long been an issue with GPS because signal strength and SNR are inherently very low.
reply▲The AirTag does not have a GPS receiver. When anyone's iPhone discovers the tag, it sends their device's location to Apple servers with "by the way, this AirTag is in range." If cellular location is inaccurate then good luck.
reply▲kylehotchkiss10 hours ago
[-] iPhone SE for next gift? it can snap back to correct location when the jammers are off or the phone infers location from tower etc
reply▲Wait what
reply▲Russia does pretty widespread GPS jamming and spoofing both in their country as well as across the Baltics and Nordics (and others). If a phone is receiving bad GPS data when it reports sensing the tag, the tag location will reflect that bad GPS data and not reality.
reply▲Shouldn't most comodity GPS receivers also be GLONASS compatible (I get that Galileo is more niche and might not be included).
Does the Sensor Apple uses not use GLONASS in Russia? Or is it cheapo Android Phones picking up the tag and then sending GPS coords into cloud?
edit: Nvm, I might be dumb, I guess unless your jamming includes all commodity GNSS it's pretty useless.
nasretdinov13 hours ago
[-] They have had GLONASS for ages too, but obviously they have to jam everything, otherwise it's not going to prevent drones and such from working
reply▲> Or is it cheapo Android Phones picking up the tag and then sending GPS coords into cloud?
AirTags have no integration with Android devices. There's a shitty app from Apple you can install that allows you to scan for AirTags nearby, one shot. It's supposedly against stalkers, but it's practically useless. There a bunch of other community apps with varying features like finding and notifying you there's an AirTag nearby. But you can't even track your own AirTags from an Android device, because Apple have decided you must do it from an iDevice. No browser, no Android app. You can check your iPhone's location via the browser, but not the AirTag.
The Android ecosystem has an alternative thing, but depending on the phone manufacturer you have to opt in to your device being used to track trackers around you.
When I travel to places with low iPhone market share, I always have one tracker of each ecosystem, just in case.
Oh, thank for the correction. I must've muddled it up in my mind with the contact tracing integration that had during Covid.
reply▲Thanks for explanation. I had absolutely no awareness GPS jamming was a thing, let alone at scale.
reply▲The United States (who created and operates GPS) also has the ability to make civilian GPS receivers in a specific area or region area less accurate, in case of war. I would assume that other countries' systems (Russia, China, maybe not EU) also have this ability.
GPS was primarily developed as a military technology. It was intentionally inaccurate for all civilians up until the year 2000.
my runner friends hate it, suddenly your Garmin can't show your pace and distance properly.
(I am very much aware it's a 1st world problem to have in times of war)
reply▲Awesome.
Time for me to buy my first iPhone then.
Sincerely, f** Google. I've been android user since I had to abandon Symbian, and their impotence in this one thing is staggering.
Ironically, one of the reason Google's offerings are (were?) worse is because Google prioritized privacy and required pings from multiple phones to count a tracker as seen.
reply▲hackandthink42 minutes ago
[-] "the new AirTag is 50 percent louder than the previous generation, enabling users to hear their AirTag from up to 2x farther than before"
Can that really be true?
If you’re 2x farther away, the intensity of the sound with be 1/4, because of the inverse square law, so logically your speaker would need to be 300% louder.
reply▲> Maintaining the same form factor as the original, the new AirTag is compatible with all existing AirTag accessories
I'm glad this appears to have been a focal point of the design.
Great to hear but it's still the same shape. I really want a 'credit card' shaped version I can slide into my wallet.
reply▲reply▲There's a newer version:
https://chipolo.net/en-us/products/chipolo-cardNotably they now support both the Apple and Android ecosystems from a single hardware SKU, although only one at a time, and the formerly disposable battery can now be recharged with a standard Qi wireless charger.
mikepurvis13 hours ago
[-] I'm interested to hear this. I had very mixed experience a few years ago with the Seinxon finder card; it wasn't reliably in contact to make it beep, even when I was standing right beside it, but worse it would semi-regularly go into anti-stalker mode and start beeping and spamming iPhones around me with scary-looking notices. This second behaviour was obviously a deal-breaker so I discontinued use of them. (Looks like the company still exists but is now selling newer versions of the cards I bought from them)
Having recently switched to Android I was tempted to give Chipolo products a try, but this reddit thread disuaded me, as multiple users there are reporting the exact kinds of issues that I experienced previously: https://www.reddit.com/r/Chipolo/comments/1n4m4j3/chipolo_po...
I have white Android-only Chipolos, and they work reliably.
reply▲Do the third party ones have UWB/"Precision Finding"?
reply▲Nope, but you can play sound. For my wallet it's enough to know I didn't leave it somewhere, then sound is enough. Sorry should have mentioned it's not a perfect replacement.
reply▲Yeah. Although I'm normally pretty good, it's mostly what did I leave my wallet under in my house?
reply▲Does it tell a thief a chipolo is following them around like the apple tag?
reply▲You can buy a third party wallet card that works with the Find My network just like an AirTag.
reply▲I'm always tempted to buy one of these but most of them seem to be one time usage, and don't have a way to recharge. That always seems very wasteful to me.
Any recommendations for a rechargable but thin one, AirTag itself is too thick for regular wallets.
The Eufy SmartTrack card is great! Mine is non-rechargeable and going on year 3. They have released a rechargeable version called the “E30”.
reply▲I have one you can recharge wirelessly. Forget the brand but it’s been working well
reply▲The other direction is just get a wallet that supports a real airtag. Because my wallet is so important to me, the name brand airtag, with UWB-enhanced findability, is worth swapping out my wallet rather than getting a sub-par credit-card find my compatible device. nb, I came to this conclusion after getting an aftermarket credit card device and found it lacking.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BZ8C5N7H
I have almost an identical wallet; I really considered using the card form factor but I would miss the precision find too much.
reply▲I could be wrong but third party tags bet a subset of the tracking capabilities? Ie less accurate/less likely to be found.
reply▲I have a wallet with a pocket for an airtag.
reply▲I haven't stress tested it but I have a Spotfinder in my small wallet.
reply▲Atuvos one at 1.6mm and UGreen one at 1.7mm are great, though one time battery is annoying. There are some that have wireless charging, though thicker.
reply▲SpotMinder is supposedly wireless charging though haven't tried.
Have one in my wallet. Will probably get some more AirTags.
thehigherlife13 hours ago
[-] reply▲prodigycorp13 hours ago
[-] Do these have the ultra wide band chip? you lose a lot of utility without it.
reply▲thehigherlife13 hours ago
[-] From the FAQ: Does Tracking Card Air support Precision Finding?
You can track your items from anywhere in the world using the Apple Find My app, but sound alerts only work when you’re within about 150 feet. Since Apple doesn’t yet support Ultra Wideband (UWB) technology for third-party trackers, Tracking Card Air doesn’t include Precision Finding at this time.
reply▲I like that it's the same shape. My backbag has an AirTag pocket, so I can just swap out a first-gen AirTag for a second-gen if I need to.
I think there are also several third-party wallet trackers that integrate with the Find My network.
> Designed exclusively for tracking objects, and not people or pets, the new AirTag incorporates…
Interesting to call out that it’s not designed for pets. I know several people with AirTags on their pet collars.
HumblyTossed13 hours ago
[-] Legal reason, perhaps?
Apple doesn't, maybe, want to explain why these are for tracking the living?
ShakataGaNai3 hours ago
[-] AirTags have always been "meh" about "finding" anything in motion. And by that I mean the up close "locate this device". I ASSUME it has to do with the fact that its trying to create a multiple point triangulation using only a single device (eg the phone you are on).
Even an airtag moving a little bit, will give you warnings in find my.
coderatlarge13 hours ago
[-] why not pets?
reply▲They work best for things that a human has to move, and since a good chunk of humans (at least in US/CA) have iPhones, the movement of the physical thing will be tracked by an iPhone fairly reliably. Any time the critter is outside the range of an i-device picking it up the location will be stale. There isn't really a way around that, since GPS/5G radios are a lot more power hungry than the occasional bluetooth pings an airtag broadcasts.
reply▲I think mostly it's a chew risk for dogs and won't help if the dog is far from the AirTag network. I still have one on my dog anyway (he's not a chewer) and my daughter puts one on her cat occasionally. (Both pets are microchipped too, of course.)
reply▲kube-system12 hours ago
[-] 1. they way the network works, it works better for inanimate objects that don't move around
2. they contain small parts that pets might inadvertently eat, and some of the collars that exist for them have been known to snag on things and entrap pets.
c-hendricks12 hours ago
[-] I bought one for my cat, never did help with finding him, just the general area.
They're not great for tracking things that move on their own, or things that avoid people.
ccvannorman12 hours ago
[-] We use them on our cats and have found the trouble-maker cat 3 times out of 3 when needed (in an urban apartment area; most recently the cat was scared by a noise which may have kept her hidden out all night in the cold, unless we had found her/shooed her back to the house)
reply▲Traubenfuchs22 minutes ago
[-] Finally! Can‘t wait to tinker with one and figure out how to disable the new tamper peotected speaker.
reply▲apple should have an anti-theft mode. Where you can't track it, but they can give access to local law enforcement to track it, and therefore wont go into stalker mode / alerting people about it.
If one is in close proximity to the device (say bluetooth), one can take it out of this mode and return it to normal usage.
I don’t know where you live, but where I live, I think we have a very good police force. But I would have absolutely no expectation of them getting actively involved in the tracker sleuthing of petty theft.
reply▲mschuster913 hours ago
[-] > But I would have absolutely no expectation of them getting actively involved in the tracker sleuthing of petty theft.
That's actually what I would love to see cops doing! Petty theft is among the most annoying nuisances there is, particularly for tourists. And I'd classify petty thefts in tourist areas, public transport and similar hotspots as aggravated cases as well.
Honestly, it doesn't take that much work. Have the mayor announce that police will now take stolen-property claims seriously and immediately follow up on reports, maybe run the occasional sting operation themselves... and the thieves will go away somewhere else all on their own.
Yes, you might run the risk of only catching some piss poor drug addicts instead of the brokers accepting and selling on the stolen merchandise - but when the brokers can't find anyone willing to risk a mandatory year in prison for petty theft, they will have to close up shop as well.
Depends on the country. Switzerland will. I suspect Japan will too
reply▲reply▲No. Skeuomorphism would have you dragging the AirTag from a picture of your pocket to a picture of someone else’s pocket, and you’d lose the ability to track it yourself then, because it would belong to the other person now.
Skeuomorphism is more about making the UI work like the real world, not just look like it.
prodigycorp13 hours ago
[-] I have ADHD – which is hardly uncommon in this economy – and the improvements to finding AirPods Pro with Find My have been a godsend. I use it almost every day. I've lost so many airpods in the past. I hope we see the same improvements to air tags.
ps, Apple is driving me nuts with their branding. With is AirPods one word and Find My two words?
Same. If I had a dollar for everytime I've said "hey siri where are my keys/airpods/phone" they'd have paid for themselves several times over.
reply▲I get the optics about tracking people...
But man that's one of my best use cases, toss a tag in my kid's pocket when we are somewhere busy. I used one on my older in-law who tended to wander.
They work great for that.
They don't seem to get that if it costs less people will buy more of them. I'm not doing to spend $29 to track a $100 item.
reply▲I'm sure Apple appreciates the advice, especially considering how few people buy their pricey phones and accessories.
C'mon, this is the same company that sells a $230 sock for your phone. And they sold out of the first batch. Apple knows their market, and some people...don't.
burnt-resistor2 hours ago
[-] AirTags don't help if the police are understaffed and totally unconcerned.
ProTip: Avoid Austin. Property theft everywhere and the cops don't care at all.
The key ring costing more than the AirTag itself is wild
reply▲does this update also enable precision finding from the watch? would this start working with the previous generation of airtags as well (currently you can use precision finding from your iphone, but not from the watch)
reply▲From the linked article:
> For the first time, users can use Precision Finding on Apple Watch Series 9 or later, or Apple Watch Ultra 2 or later, to find their AirTag, bringing a powerful experience to the wrist.
According the MacRumors, yes but they cant confirm if its only for the new AirTags yet:
"watchOS 26.2.1 is also coming, and it expands Precision Finding to the Apple Watch Series 9 and later, and Apple Watch Ultra 2 and later. We have not yet confirmed if this is for the new AirTag only or also works with the original model."
apples_oranges13 hours ago
[-] I read they are popular with drug distributors. They ship their merch world wide using various hidden channels and couriers and this helps keep track of the merch.
reply▲stevewodil12 hours ago
[-] I put one in my car when I shipped it across the country - it was great to be able to check where it was and know when it was getting close!
reply▲Sounds like one of those "what if..." things someone made up.
AirTags are terrible for surreptitious tracking, alerting every iOS user nearby of a tracked product following them around.
I mean, years ago people, such as stalkers, would use it for this purpose, but Apple rightly gimped that. There are a lot of specialized, self-connected trackers that creeps and criminals use.
And simultaneously gimped the theft-alert use case. I embedded one into my labelmaker, which is a notoriously high-theft item on jobsites. I can still track it in case I leave it behind, which is great.
But if someone steals it, they get an alert that there's an airtag traveling with them, and they can go through their loot to figure out which item it is, and ditch it, or destroy it. In the first case I get my labelmaker back, but I never bust the thief.
I've only been notified about a device traveling with me one time, and it was when a relative was riding home with me in my car. When we got home, I received a notification that there were AirPods Pro traveling with me.
This is consistent with my understanding that it only goes off if it travels with you for a very long time, or to your house. (Of course, at that point it's too late because they know where you live already.)
To all available information, your home has nothing to do with the alert. The alert occurs if one of the trackable items (airtag, airpods, etc) is moving with you, but the registered owner is not within bluetooth connectivity of the device. I've had it happen with my son's airpods a number of times because he let his phone battery die, triggering the alert for any other iPhone nearby if moving simultaneously with this tracker.
I'm not sure what I'm to make of your absence of your alerts. Perhaps that happens because you have no such trackers moving with you? Like, are you saying you do and there are false negatives?
Apple's documentation indicates that notifications are in some cases triggered by the fact that a device has followed you to your home or other "significant location". [1]
1: https://support.apple.com/en-us/119874
It goes the other way around. Enabling significant locations allows your device to queue up notifications like that to basically be "you have arrived" updates, versus while you are driving or otherwise engaged having a sudden notification go off, which some people find alarming. It doesn't require significant locations, but that's when it might decide to wait to tell you.
reply▲I have followed this issue somewhat carefully over the years and my understanding differs from yours. Can you show sources that indicate that it is the other way around? I have experienced the notification coming at home even when the phone was not set to a driving mode beforehand, so notifications would not have been silenced.
reply▲Well, to be historically accurate: Apple has pretty much been forced by the backlash to notify people that they're being tracked and even then it only worked if you had an iPhone.
They knew what they were doing and I'm sure the stalking aspect helped their sales significantly as it seems to be a very popular behaviour in the US.
> the stalking aspect helped their sales significantly
while not denying people have done this, I do have problems thinking that it was a significant portion of the sales numbers. exaggerating problems is not necessary and actually reduces the credibility of the people doing the exaggerating
Sure, that's accurate. I actually never said otherwise, nor did I saint Apple. They were basically forced to do it.
Virtually any tracking or surveillance has a knock-on effect that we often overlook in our enthusiasm, but Apple absolutely should have foreseen the abuse that would happen, and certainly profited off of it.
I have an older AirTag, which cannot be seen by my iPhone any more but gives a slight beep whenever it gets shaken. Anyone ever heard of the behavior?
reply▲IIRC, this indicates that it's linked to someone else's account, and has not been shared with you. The "beep when moved" feature is to alert people they're being tracked.
For example, I let my mother in law use luggage of mine with an airtag still in it and every time she moved it after the first day or so, it would play a noise.
I had the thought too, but there is no way anyone else could have gotten physical control over this and shouldn't I see that AirTag when I scan for things in my surrounding as an anti-tracking protection?
reply▲I've had similar issues -- consider it a bug -- and unpair and re-pair with your phone, and likely the issue will go away.
reply▲I think I unpaired it, but I cannot pair it again, as it isn't recognized by the iPhone at all.
reply▲The battery needs changed.
reply▲Changing the battery was the first thing I did. No change. But if that is the official signal for "battery low", I can try a few more. Thanks.
reply▲Make sure the battery doesn’t have bitterant coating on the edge where it meets the AirTag contact.
The first time I replaced my AirTag batteries I had to remove some of the coating or it wouldn’t power the AirTag.
Tried with a cleaned new battery. It beeps when I put the battery in, that is it. When I scan for unknown objects, I get shown an air tag, but it doesn't tell me anything about it. So probably I should just remove the battery - I must have gone through a heap of them debugging this - and just smash it.
reply▲Oh yeah totally, that “feature” of a Duracell cr2032 battery screwed me over in that exact case. They just don’t work at all with an AirTag (battery bought from afaik reputable supplier, Home Depot).
Switched to Energizer cr2032 and it’s been great.
reply▲Thats worth a try, because if the batteries have that, trying several ones of the same brand would produce the same results.
Now, do I try to test this by licking the battery or should I try to sand the surface without pre-testing? :)
I read this literally just after I ordered 4 AirTags. Great.
reply▲rationalist4 hours ago
[-] Did you buy it with a credit card that offers an "extended return" policy?
reply▲stalfosknight13 hours ago
[-] You have 14 days to return them.
reply▲I could return them. But I wonder how long it will take before the new AirTags are available in stores?
reply▲Not all retailers take returns. But the old ones were likely on sale, have been for a while.
reply▲stalfosknight11 hours ago
[-] He should have bought them directly from Apple then.
reply▲Third party sellers offer bigger discounts, but lesser return policies are generally part of the tradeoff.
reply▲MisterBiggs13 hours ago
[-] I was really hoping for a new form factor or new killer features. Its too bad that the general public can't behave themselves with simple tech like this
reply▲Brajeshwar13 hours ago
[-] Apple AirTag is one of those interesting products that you don’t think you need until you use it. An Apple thing that just works as advertised and is cheap enough that you can keep picking them up at Airports, without the guilty feeling that usually comes with buying high-priced Apple products, such as the Polishing Cloth. And when you order it online, the nice engravings are fun for my daughters. They like it when it is pinged, finding their toys and bags, and it is worth the price tag.
I had to put in a few of my daughter’s pencil pouches and some toys; they are cheaper than the AirTags and, financially, make no sense to lose an AirTag that costs more than the items being tracked. But hey, daughter is happy, and that covers up for the cost.
WorldMaker11 hours ago
[-] There's a value in sentimentality that doesn't always reflect in the financial value of a thing.
reply▲eurotechie13 hours ago
[-] "With its updated internal design, the new AirTag is 50 percent louder than the previous generation, enabling users to hear their AirTag from up to 2x farther than before."
Curious about getting 2x the distance from 1.5x the "loudness", I would have thought the inverse? Maybe there is nuance to this though.
herpdyderp13 hours ago
[-] I tried AirTags once. It beeped non stop on my own possessions. I don’t understand how anyone uses these things.
reply▲I had this experience too. They beep like this if they're not near an updated iDevice logged into your account.
You'll have the same problem if you do something like: set the AirTag up on an iPad, but then carry around with an Android phone on you or just any phone not logged into your Apple Account. The beeping is the anti-stalking feature since it thinks it's separated from its owner.
That’s not the expected experience, and not the one other people have.
reply▲I once bought 4 air tags, never got to work them in any useful sense. I keep getting warnings about leaving my keys behind, which are in my pocket. I don't recall any time being warned about leaving things behind when I did. Can't really locate things a few meters away.
reply▲That’s so odd! They’ve worked exactly as promised for me. I never, ever get warnings about my own tags, or my wife’s tags that she’s shared with me. Not even once. And yesterday I used them to find my keys that the cats had relocated to across the house.
I don’t have any explanation for how our experiences could be so different, but they are. Mine even did the cool thing where you can watch your luggage move through an airport until you join up with it.
Just found out that the one active remaining tag on my keychain stopped working in September without me noticing.
reply▲rationalist3 hours ago
[-] It seems like Apple should notify users that their AirTag disappeared and ask them if they would like instructions on replacing the battery or to remove it from their account.
reply▲Mine pester me to change the batteries until I actually do.
reply▲WorldMaker11 hours ago
[-] Generally you tag your home as a trusted location, which eliminates most regular pings. Then you make sure that your Find My shows all of your tags; if you missed enrolling one and it still pings as a "stranger's tag" that can be a cause of confusion. (If you live with someone else, I've heard it is useful that you share your Find My data with each other.)
When actually traveling with your stuff there's a personal comfort question of how comfortable you feel in setting things like hotel rooms as "trusted" so you don't get a lot of pings when you leave things behind intentionally in places like hotel rooms. I think that's my biggest ask for AirTags is an easier way to set explicitly time-bound trusts: trust this exact hotel room until my checkout date; trust this exact office space until the end of this work day.
Apple's Find My helps thieves more than it helps the owners:
When I was on a walk with my friend, my iPhone constantly nagged me about "AIRPODS ARE MOVING WITH YOU!!!1!" and it showed me the EXACT complete route on the map.. I didn't even ask for it!
When I lost my AirPods (which are ridiculously easy to remove from your iCloud account and Find My: just hold down the pairing button for 30 seconds), it just showed me a vague radius and "Last seen around here 12 hours ago" not even a exact time.
But the real question is... is the speaker still glued on?
reply▲I wonder what changes they made to the firmware, as the first generation you could “fix” it so it doesn’t notify people nearby.
reply▲Great that they are improving a relatively low profile product. I imagine that the warning of using AirTag on pets is just for regulatory purposes?
reply▲Yep. They continue to be excellent pet trackers. “They’re not for use with pets, wink wink”, when if you set out to build a pet tracker from scratch, that’s what you’d hope to end up with.
reply▲ianschmitz13 hours ago
[-] Pet trackers in which situation though? The times I’ve wanted a tracker on my dog is when we’re out in the woods for a hike and I worry he bolts after an animal or similar. I can’t see how an AirTag would help in that scenario.
reply▲That’s a good point. You’re right: they’d be useless there, unless you were so close to your dog that you could hear it anyway. I live in a city and a lost dog would be close to any number of people with phones at any given time, and it’d be very useful there.
reply▲That's the part of the "hope" people have with the AirTag is that their pet will happen to wander close to another compatible Apple device to update the tracking. I assume this is also why they are not the "suggested" use
reply▲They're great if you're in a populated area. If you're tracking pets in the country, you'll never see them, as there aren't any relay devices out in the woods.
reply▲And they didn't put a small loop in it so you can attach one of those skinny little lanyard hoops?!
Attaching these things to anything is their major flaw.
/picard facepalm
How else can they make you buy a keychain holder that costs more than the AirTag itself?
reply▲insane_dreamer12 hours ago
[-] AirTag (and FindMy for devices like phones, tablets, etc.) might be my favorite iOS/Apple feature and one that I use regularly.
reply▲The new AirTag requires a compatible iPhone with iOS 26 or later, or iPad with iPadOS 26 or later.Oh come the fuck ON. I'm not installing your silly fuzzy UI, Apple. Get over it.
reply▲For real. This just went from insta-purchase to "guess I'll have one someday, but not anytime soon".
I use these to help keep track of my kids, but I'll probably get them AWs before I upgrade to 26 in all honesty.
> and a louder speaker
That's great, but could they do something about what plays on the speaker? It's all pretty in that Apple sort of way, but the fact that its volume goes up and down makes it harder to find. Y'know, exactly the one thing you're trying to do with it?
Is this just to lock out the cheap clones?
reply▲The AirTag is a fantastic device.
If only it were usable with an Android phone :(
I was hoping for 6DoF sub-mm realtime tracking. My disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined.
reply▲Would be great, but that, world-wide, for millions of objects, probably is a case of putting your expectations too high.
Has that ever been demonstrated for a single object, even if allowing the object to be a thousand times as large as this?
why do you need that?
reply▲Pure visual object tracking in visionOS is considerable laggy (even with increased detection rate). Natively tracked peripherals (Logitech Muse, PSVR2 controllers) are super responsive, but are designed for hands and are too specialized. There is a place for generic 6DoF tracking device that can be attached to any object you want to track. This could be tiny IR LED array if you want to track it inside the field of view, but when you need precise position outside of your FoV, your options are limited.
reply▲candiddevmike13 hours ago
[-] I hate that this eventual e-waste wasn't standardized across vendors. It makes perfect sense for every phone to be a potential node, but the network is bifurcated (and possibly more bifurcations within Android due to Google's privacy-first approach...).
reply▲_verandaguy13 hours ago
[-] Maybe a hot take, but I don't think this is as awful for e-waste as many other things.
I've had a set of airtags for a good few years now (shortly before Covid, I think?) and they mostly just kinda work. They don't insist upon a need to upgrade, the only part that ever goes bad is the battery -- which is a standard, user-replaceable CR2032, and while batteries going into the garbage isn't fantastic, there's really only so much you can do as long as depend on them.
Like -- this announcement is technically an upgrade, but I've never been less tempted to actually buy into it because the existing product does what it does plenty well enough for my needs.
I do think it's a bit funny to highlight anything Google does now as privacy-first, though. I can't play back Youtube embeds in Waterfox because the browser's default privacy-preserving setting doesn't send referrer information to those embeds, which Youtube now requires for embeds to work. As much as I take issue with Apple's politics over the past year, they do tend to lean towards on-device logic where possible, and their work in the homomorphic cryptography niche has been interesting to follow.
Please don't put your CR2032 in the garbage. Use battery disposal points for that.
reply▲_verandaguy12 hours ago
[-] I use the terms interchangeably when it comes to batteries; I do use battery disposal bins, but I don't have any faith that the actual process behind the scenes is much less impactful for the environment.
It's like when I learned that many paper recycling programs end up combining paper with regular garbage, or finding out that plastic recycling is comically ineffective in its outcomes.
Batteries in the trash are also a fire hazard. It's not just for the environment.
reply▲slimadvies14 hours ago
[-] That took a long time. Better late than never.
reply▲Late? When did Apple originally announce that it would be released?
reply▲Is this demonstrably better that just... the devices already in your bag? My backpack would be a primary use case... and in it are my AirPods, iPad, and MacBook Air. I think any of these can use Find My already?
reply▲Maybe not if one of those items is always in your backpack. A few other use cases that I think they're great for:
- Throw one in your checked bag when traveling
- Mount one in a relatively concealed location on your bike
- Keychain (depending on if you're prone to misplacing your keys)
In addition to your first use case, multiple airlines are now supporting AirTag for bag tracking.
reply▲For that one item, no not really. But an AirTag has a battery life of about a year and there's really no reason to frequently remove it. AirPods have a substantially shorter battery life and are not guaranteed to be in that bag all the time no matter what. Also AirTags are many times cheaper and smaller than your listed items and are moderately water and impact resistant. If there's something you want to track in addition to your backpack you likely don't want to buy spare AirPods (your cheapest item) just for that purpose.
reply▲The battery life of AirPods in a case (what GP is referring to) is quite long. I don't know how long, but I'd guess weeks/months if you're not using them. Obviously a single AirPod out of the case would last much less time (though still days, IME).
reply▲neonmagenta13 hours ago
[-] Airtags use Find My as well once you're out of bluetooth range. The tag offers more precision once you get into range, down to inches supposedly whereas Find My is more of a general 30 ft radius
reply▲clickety_clack12 hours ago
[-] I don’t know how many people have bought them, but I’m going to guess it’s in the millions since Apple are updating it. All those people presumably do find it useful separate from their devices.
Personally I don’t always have an Apple device in my backpack, and when traveling you can’t put devices in checked luggage, so I use them for those use cases at least.
I use AirTags on car keys and wallets.
reply▲I have them on my dogs' collars, because squirrels exist.
reply▲Cats collars here, as an insurance measure if they were ever to sneak outside. They're also handy to locate them around the house for various reasons.
reply▲They might not be for you.
reply▲Are they less prone to stalking? All I see is generic corpo "industry security" verbiage
reply▲It looks like the anti-stalking mechanism remains the same: if your iPhone detects that a non-paired AirTag is traveling with you you'll get a persistent notification about it.
I've seen these myself for my partner's AirTag when I was carrying her stuff.
Apparently Android 6+ can warn you about AirTags in the same way, since May 2024: https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2024/05/apple-and-google-deli...
There were rumors that this version makes the speaker harder to remove (I remove the speaker from the previous version when I put them in my own cars & motorcycles to make them harder to find). Looking forward to a teardown...
reply▲The most stalkable users are android users, but even that it's going away with newer androids. And it already beeps when you move it if it's been away from the owner for too long.
I know because I have an android phone and a not-so-used ipad and mine beep all the time.
What stalking scenario are you worried with?
Have you not seen the stories? Put one of these on the underside of an ex's car
reply▲How does that avoid the Android/iPhone unknown AirTag warning features?
reply▲buzzerbetrayed13 hours ago
[-] And it would notify your ex that you did so, no?
Apple has already done more than enough to discourage stalking. We shouldn’t nerf all our technology to the ground because assholes exist.
It's too late when they are notified. The last known address is where the victim is at.
reply▲kube-system12 hours ago
[-] The perpetrator has to already find the victim, and physically be there, to put the tag on the car
reply▲PurpleRamen12 hours ago
[-] Meeting could happen in public, it doesn't mean they know their private address.
For example, meet someone at a convention/fair/job, gift/sell them something which has a hidden tag, and then wait for them to drive to their hotel, or home. Gotcha. With influencer and celebs, you can also send something to their agency, and hope they are re-routed to their home. S** like that happened quite often until people learned to be more careful. Probably still sometimes happens even now.
kube-system7 hours ago
[-] I'm sure idiots do this but it's a pretty high risk way to try to track someone. IME the tracking notifications are timely enough that you're going to have a good idea where they came from. Actual GPS trackers are cheap on Amazon, have better accuracy, and don't notify people they exist -- they just don't have the public's mindshare nearly as much.
reply▲On the car, not on the car at the victim's house.
Or the much more, frankly common, scenario is: a $15 plushie bought through Amazon wishlist, sold by PerpOwned LLC for $500, and delivered through Amazon warehouse. That's actually happening.
kube-system8 hours ago
[-] I don't know why anyone with a budget would choose to use an Airtag that notifies nearby iPhones and makes noise when you move it around. If Amazon lets you ship arbitrary items to people's private address, that sounds like a vulnerability with Amazon that is far more severe than simply shipping Airtags.
reply▲Isn't it easy to disable the speaker?
reply▲“Easy” in relative terms for people who hack on electronics. Even if you remove the speaker, modern phones will tell the victim that someone else’s AirTag is moving along with them, unless the owner of the AirTag is also present.
reply▲prodigycorp13 hours ago
[-] The greatest success of AirTags is its silent refutation of the clamoring concern trolling.
It's been, what, six years now? The media would pay hand over fist for an airtags stalking story and how many have there actually been?
Both Apple and Android have had anti-stalking features for years.
reply▲superxpro1213 hours ago
[-] I mean, i remember a lot of posts about people using them for stalking. It's unclear if this has been addressed or if the concern has been deprioritized, or if apple solved the problem somehow.
I mean it was enough of a concern that Android added a "detect airtags" feature to the base android OS.
WorldMaker11 hours ago
[-] Apple had its version of "stalking detection" (that equivalent of Android's "detect airtags") from early rollout. (There's a screenshot in the attached article even.) Some of the scrutiny and early complaints was that ecosystem divide that needed Android to also support at least a basic form of that same feature before people would feel safe, and everyone knew that Apple themselves weren't going to build the Android version.
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