Employers, please use postmarked letters for job applications
47 points
3 hours ago
| 21 comments
| soapstone.mradford.com
| HN
elgertam
1 hour ago
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Introducing JobbyPasta, the service that will hand-complete and mail in job applications for a small fee of $9.99 per application. Add on a transcription of your cover letter for an additional $4.99, or have us generate one (with your approval) and transcribe it for $7.99.

Have a lot of applications to send out? Subscribe to us monthly for $34.99/mo (billed annually).

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budududuroiu
1 hour ago
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We just found ourselves a new industry to contribute to GDP growth
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staticshock
1 hour ago
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Instead, the approach that will continue increasing in dominance is hiring referrals and finding jobs through personal networks.

In a world that increasingly resembles The Library of Babel,

- the main way to know what's true is to tune into news sources you trust (monolithic old school media, or personality driven new-school media, social media, etc.),

- the main way to learn what to watch/listen/read is to take recommendations from people you trust, or received through channels you trust,

- the main way to hire or get hired is, increasingly, by exploiting a network of people you trust.

All of this compensates for ambient oversaturation by using the best available (and tunable!) desaturation filter: your trust network.

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antasvara
1 hour ago
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I like this as an optional "this will be read and considered by a human" guarantee added to a job posting. That way, you can still get the reach of digital submissions but the benefits of this approach.
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siliconc0w
1 hour ago
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I think something like an escrowed fee that both the applicant and the employer pay would be a reasonable way to solve the spam and keep both parties honest. If either the applicant or the employer are unhappy with the process (resume doesn't match, employer ghosts) - the fee is sent to charity, otherwise the fee is returned to both parties.
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malfist
1 hour ago
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2D plotters are what, $100? That's basically no cost for someone wanting to spam "handwritten" letters
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softgrow
1 hour ago
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I'd really like a rejection physical letter back saying thankyou for application but no thanks signed by a human. I put some effort in to applying, they could at least exert some effort coming back, rather than simply ghosting. A reasonable barrier to bots collecting CV's.
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eslaught
1 hour ago
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Not the same industry but at least one literary agent does this: if you physically print and mail your book proposal, they will respond with a short but polite, physical rejection letter if they reject you.

But I think it's a generational thing. The younger agents I know of just shut down all their submissions when they get overwhelmed, or they start requiring everyone to physically meet them at a conference first.

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stackskipton
2 hours ago
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After seeing the flood of resumes for application, I do think a small cost to apply wouldn't be a bad thing for either applicants or companies. I also realize that if someone is unemployed, getting them to pay money they don't have to find a new job is counterproductive.

However, when we wanted to hire a new Ops person at work, the flood of obviously not qualified at all applicants we got was insane.

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vulcan01
1 hour ago
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> the flood of obviously not qualified at all applicants we got was insane

From speaking to folks looking for jobs in tech over the past few years, this is a natural result.

1. Companies write requirements on the job posting that are a little beyond reasonable for the role and salary.

2. Applicants learn over time, and start applying to jobs for which they only meet most of the qualifications.

3. Companies adjust and write even more ridiculous requirements.

4. Applicants start applying to jobs for which they only meet some requirements.

5. Repeat.

As evidence that the applicants are, at every stage, correctly reacting to the situation: I have received positive responses (and, later, job offers) by applying to roles for which I am only mostly qualified, and I know many people for whom this is true of jobs they are only barely qualified for.

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x0x0
1 hour ago
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The last req I opened I closed around 500 applicants. I opened it Thursday afternoon and closed it Tuesday morning.

Over 40% were totally nonqualified. The job was for a rails engineer. In the current market, I wanted exactly what I asked for: a senior rails eng. But as long as the applicant had shipped a web app in a dynamic language -- node, react, vue, svelte, django, flask, phoenix, whatever the php folks use, etc -- it's not unreasonable to apply. That 40% had never shipped a webapp. Another 10% or more completely ignored the senior: many had < 1 year of experience.

I ended up using AI to filter because even 1 minute per is an entire 9 hour day. Engaging for 3 minutes per application is 3x that. And I can't be in a position where I spend effort while the applicant spent none: I assume the bulk of these were just mass applications.

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simoncion
30 minutes ago
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> As evidence that the applicants are, at every stage, correctly reacting to the situation: I have received positive responses (and, later, job offers) by applying to roles for which I am only mostly qualified...

Even fifteen years ago, I was getting advice from grizzled (programming industry) veterans of the form

  If you match even half of what they're asking for, apply. Most of the time, those lists are put together by HR; and even if the list is completely accurate, they're never going to find anyone that meets all those requirements. The ad is asking for the *ideal* candidate. The smart companies know they're going to have to settle for less. Let *them* filter *you* out.
I've interviewed a fair bit, both in and out of Silicon Valley. I've had exactly two interviews where the folks hiring knew exactly what they wanted. All the others were like "Well, we need a programmer to do programmer stuff, IDK.".
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PolygonSheep
2 hours ago
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I'd gladly pay the 78 cents for a stamp if it meant my application was opened and read by an actual human.
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ryandrake
1 hour ago
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If I were a job applicant, I don't know how much I'd pay for an ironclad guarantee that the human hiring manager for the role would open and read my resume. $100? Multiple hundreds?

Sad that things have gotten to this point.

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htrp
4 minutes ago
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Thats when you work with the a 3P recruiter that has a vested interest in putting you in front of the hiring manager
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chipgap98
1 hour ago
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I do think this is going to be part of the solution to a lot of AI slop is adding small fees to do a thing
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1970-01-01
2 hours ago
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At this rate we just need the entire system to breakdown so we can rebuild it with some hard standards. I shouldn't need to reenter my information. Period.
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ralph84
2 hours ago
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They already do this, listen to the radio at off hours and there will be many job ads with instructions to apply via postal mail. Of course the reason isn't to deter LLMs it's to deter Americans so the employer can claim no Americans applied in their visa and green card filings.
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mckn1ght
1 hour ago
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Do FAANG, FAANG wannabes, or startups do this for software development roles? I've never heard of that.
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zabzonk
1 hour ago
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Surely few people have a printer these days? I do (a color laser printer) but I'm a bit old school. And yes, my handwriting is, and always has been, dreadful.
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slaymaker1907
1 hour ago
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As long as you have a FedEx or library nearby, you can print things there
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personjerry
1 hour ago
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This does nothing.

I'll just start a business that mails letters to companies for you.

Now, an APPLICATION FEE, that's interesting. Hmm.

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jaredklewis
1 hour ago
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Well, presumably your business charges something to mail out job applications to companies? Like an application fee, that charge incurs a cost to applicant which will do something (presumably reduce applicant volume).
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postalcoder
1 hour ago
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This does nothing.

I'll just start a business that lends money to job applicants. Apply now, pay later (ANPL).

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bloppe
1 hour ago
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If you continue to get mountains of slop applications after introducing an application fee, then at least you have a new revenue stream.
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postalcoder
1 hour ago
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On the company side, you have a new revenue stream. On the ANPL side, you have another product you can securitize. Revenue generation and risk transfer, a win-win!
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mccraveiro
1 hour ago
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So www.postgrid.com?
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boogrpants
1 hour ago
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Fix the jobs problem hiring mail rooms full of people again!

No poorly paid (relative to company performance) recruitment team is going to take on sorting mail and recruitment.

So this just blows up business operations costs. Non-starter.

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oojuliuso
1 hour ago
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And before the in-person interview, the applicant is required to produce a handwriting sample in front of the interviewer of random text, which is then compared against the mailed documents.
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voxelghost
1 hour ago
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Perhaps we just need Tinder for employee-employer relationships?

Its all in the profile - and we can all just swipe left/right instead.

Dysfunctional FAANG seeks 10X prompt engineer in hyderabad

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isodev
1 hour ago
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And maybe employers/recruiters should be required to include a template (but .doc is not allowed) of what format they expect, disclose if they will be OCR-ing it and with which tool/LLM, will they read it or feed it to an AI etc.
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Arch485
1 hour ago
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As someone who is currently looking for a job, I don't like this idea.

All this does is increase the effort and barrier to entry to apply for a job. This is not a good thing. Applying to jobs is already time consuming as it is; nobody wants more hoops to jump through.

I understand that recruiters/hiring managers/whatever get a lot of junk applications, but frankly, it is your job to sort through them. You are paid to do this.

Could the hiring/job seeking process be better? Yes, absolutely. Currently, it's terrible, and almost everyone involved is making it worse. But the solution is not mailing job applications.

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drdec
1 hour ago
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I think you are ignoring the advantage for the applicant.

The reduction in what are essentially spam applications means your genuine application will stand out and be more likely to be considered.

Things that help employers find qualified candidates also help those qualified candidates.

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Arch485
1 hour ago
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I don't fully agree. I agree that helping employers find qualified candidates is good for those candidates, but I don't agree that making applications mail-in only would achieve that end. It doesn't solve a lot of the larger problems when it comes to job applications, and just makes things harder for the applicant.
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verzali
1 hour ago
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That never seems to happen in practice. The number of jobs I have applied to that required additional effort and that never bothered to reply is just too high.
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duck
1 hour ago
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What was the "additional effort" you've had to do before?
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Leynos
1 hour ago
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Filling out an application form by hand.
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jaredklewis
1 hour ago
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> I understand that recruiters/hiring managers/whatever get a lot of junk applications, but frankly, it is your job to sort through them. You are paid to do this.

Recruiters, hiring managers, and whatevers are humans too, with ordinary human limitations. Just because they are paid to do something doesn't mean they gain superhuman capabilities.

Even if I am a recruiter with nothing else to do, if I get 5k applications for a role each week, I won't individually review 5k applications in a week. It's not possible. So I will have to rely on some automated system that filters out most of those applications. Who knows how good that system is.

On the other hand, if I get 100 mail applications for a role each week, that I can review that.

I'm not in love with this proposal, but I definitely see the appeal. Adding a little cost/effort on the applicant side automatically filters out a ton of applicants that have not bothered to learn anything about the role or company.

In the past I've had success with adding things to the job description like: "please include a link to your favorite gif in your email." And that filters out about 95% of applicants who don't read the job description and don't have a gif link in their email. But with LLMs I imagine those kinds of filters work less well than before.

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Arch485
1 hour ago
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That's a fair point! It is true that recruiters are human and cannot review 5k applications per week.

I don't mean to say that recruiters must/should review all applications, because indeed this is sometimes impossible. I'm just saying that, as a recruiter, your job is to review applications and you should therefore not be making things harder for the applicants.

Asking for someone's favourite GIF to filter out junk applications is a great idea. This does not detriment the applicant, and it makes the recruiter's job easier. This is good. Making all applications mail-in is not good, because it detriments the applicant (by way of costing significantly more time and some money), while also not solving some of the larger problems when it comes to the job application process.

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Magmalgebra
1 hour ago
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> get a lot of junk applications, but frankly, it is your job to sort through them.

But this isn't their job. Their job is to hire someone who passes the hiring bar. If they can do that without ever looking at a random resume everyone at the company is happy.

An unstated thesis of the article is that several years from now people who want to accomplish that job just won't look at resumes submitted online - whatever anyone's feelings about it.

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wat10000
1 hour ago
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Applying by mail sounds easier than the usual online form nonsense.
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ksenzee
1 hour ago
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Has anyone tried this from the applicant side? Just send in a cover letter and resume, old-school?
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malfist
1 hour ago
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That used the be the trick FAANG used to justify H1B visas. Onerous application requirements like mailed applications to prove there's no Americans wanting the job
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wavemode
2 hours ago
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For every 1 LLM applicant that this idea would deter, you would also deter 50 humans who simply don't feel like having to send a letter to apply to a job.
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Zanni
2 hours ago
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Valid point if your ratio is correct, but I suspect it's the other way around.
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mckn1ght
1 hour ago
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At least for me, I'd still rather mail a letter versus input all my personal details and job experience into yet another CRM with a crappy data entry interface.
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behringer
1 hour ago
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Oh no, you still have to do that too.
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wat10000
1 hour ago
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But surely there’s also a downside somewhere.
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Leynos
1 hour ago
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Brought to you by the same people who think that it should be possible to sack an employee without cause and without notice.
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stevage
1 hour ago
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Reminds me of how it was common in France until pretty recently for employers to use graphology (pseudoscience) analysis of candidate's handwritten letters to assess personality traits etc. When I was looking for work there I was lucky that the tech sector was already a abandoning the practice.
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kittikitti
1 hour ago
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In my last job search, I sent out a few dozen resumes utilizing snail mail. It was from a job board that searched for job descriptions that only accepted applications through physical mail. There were some big tech companies I was able to apply to. Ultimately, I didn't get a role from snail mail but it was an interesting process. I would probably expose myself if I detailed the specific service I used, but you can lookup online tools where you upload a PDF and they print it out and send it to an address for like $1 each (more for certified, priority, etc.) and I confirmed it worked. I even had companies mail me back rejection letters, so that was a first.
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