Microsoft is walking back Windows 11's AI overload
62 points
1 hour ago
| 28 comments
| windowscentral.com
| HN
stego-tech
2 minutes ago
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Too little, too late, and too specific in scope. Windows 11 is awful not merely because of the AI bullshit being shoehorned into everything, everywhere (CoPilot in Notepad? In Paint? Are you serious, Microsoft?!), but also because of all the other completely unnecessary changes made to the OS. A curated selection of real-world examples from my recent gig making a hardened Windows 11 image for a physical product line:

* Kiosk Mode via the shell launcher delays logon times from <5s to 30-180s - just by turning it on, even if it doesn’t actually enable kiosk mode!

* Local changes via registry keys don’t “stick” consistently, even when the machine is entirely offline

* Offline activations using hardware keys fail across vendors without anyone knowing why (other than Microsoft, for the cost of a support call)

* Existing Windows 10 powercfg scripts and config files do not work with Win11. Our workaround was manually calling the exact same command twice, back-to-back, to force-apply a change.

* Installing language packs via the command line by any means available (Powershell’s add-windowscapability, DISM’s package installer, lpksetup, etc) do not actually populate the GUI with those packs as an option until we reinstall them from the GUI again.

* Adverts are everywhere, even on IoT LTSC Enterprise

Honestly, Microsoft completely lost the plot as to what an operating system is supposed to do in favor of turning it into an advertising and user surveillance machine masquerading as a useful OS.

I hate it.

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Telaneo
2 minutes ago
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The thing that bothers me the most about this is that I actually have faith in the people actually developing Windows. I'm not at all aurprised that they are rebelling against stupid non-features. But that rebelling doesn't amount to anything, since managers and decrees from the top funnel all effort into the most user-hostile results possible.

If MS rehires their QA teams and listen to the people on the ground, I'd imagine the very same devs who put AI in Notepad would be very happy to give us features we actually want.

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Shank
1 hour ago
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> It appears this moment of pushback has resonated with internal teams: According to people familiar with Microsoft’s plans, the company is now reevaluating its AI strategy on Windows 11 and plans changes to streamline or even remove certain AI features where they don’t make sense.

Obviously this is a complete failure of governance. The very first thing they should have considered was whether or not these features made sense in the ways that they were being added. There should not be any necessary work to "rollback" features that do not make sense, because they should have not built them in the first place.

Even if we accept at face value that AI has made generation of code significantly cheaper, that doesn't justify the existence of worthless code. Taste comes from knowing what not to build.

Right now Windows is an unstable mess, filled with things that shouldn't have been built. The question Microsoft should ask themselves is why they built them in the first place, and how they will prevent this from happening again.

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pixelpoet
57 minutes ago
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> The question Microsoft should ask themselves is why they built them in the first place

It seems like everyone except MS themselves knows why: they got tunnel vision from Azure and AI, and completely forgot about what actually made them successful.

Hell they even burnt down one of the most famous brands in the world, MS Office, for zero reason other than to try and whitewash their Copilot name. The marketing guys who made that decision urgently need to find another line of work, because literally a Labrador licking his balls all day would have resulted in a better outcome.

The PMs are completely asleep at the wheel, when they aren't actively self-sabotaging.

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chii
53 minutes ago
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> The PMs are completely asleep at the wheel

or, everyone has career aspirations for which they need to demonstrate impact, relevance and in shipping products. Since the current hype is AI, making and being part of the AI hype means career advancement (at the time).

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sanjit
14 minutes ago
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> …because literally a Labrador licking his balls all day would have resulted in a better outcome.

My Labrador says a/ he’s neutered c/ dogix user b/ his teams always begin with empathy: people (and retrieves) over outcomes

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pixelpoet
2 minutes ago
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That's a good boy, and I meant no disrespect to our furry family, just that they usually aren't known for their product management skills. I probably should have taken a leaf from UK politics and compared to a lettuce.
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dartharva
53 minutes ago
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I don't know about Windows, but it will take a lot more enshittification than that to burn down the Office brand. Excel alone carries it to dominance.
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pixelpoet
52 minutes ago
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The Office brand is literally gone, they renamed it to "Microsoft Copilot 365 app". Check https://office.com
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everdrive
19 minutes ago
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I'm shocked they didn't stash "defender" in there somehow. I used to joke that one name they'd rebrand the start menu as "defender for application launching" and rebrand the power button as "defender for powering on."
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withinboredom
49 minutes ago
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Copilot is such a dumb brand name. At least to me, it confers that I need to be a pilot and that it requires training to be one.

I just want to be productive, not fly a plane.

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xattt
4 minutes ago
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[delayed]
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QuadmasterXLII
1 hour ago
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The pain of ripping this all out properly is likely too high. Ever since they got the delicious taste of white-labelling chromium instead of fixing ie, another way has been looking better and better: windows 13 or 14 will just be a linux distro
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major505
22 minutes ago
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The problem with windows is not the kernel, as it is preety solid, but user space.

Wathever problems windows have today, retro compatibility was always a strong point in favor of windows. Breaking it with such a change in the kernel, would make most of its users even bitter than they are today.

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Sharlin
24 minutes ago
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Unlike IE, the NT kernel was never bad and is still (presumably) in a pretty good shape. It's the userland that's gone insane. Someone should just port the Windows 7 shell to the newest kernel and call it a day.
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b3lvedere
1 hour ago
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That would be kind of awesome, since Microsoft has a pretty serious track record of supporting decades old sofware and technology quirks. Could be pretty cool supporting Windows 11 software products on a 'Linux based Windows 13'. :)
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hparadiz
56 minutes ago
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If they actually did this they would vendor lock you into a custom DM after one or two iterations and then anyone not using that DM would be locked out of any real software. It's a Trojan horse.
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bw86
32 minutes ago
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It would not make Windows a good project, but it would mean that hardware vendors would have to implement good Linux drivers. It could therefore help all other distributions, too!
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delta_p_delta_x
52 minutes ago
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> The pain of ripping this all out properly is likely too high.

That is just completely illogical and betrays a complete lack of understanding of how Windows works. Most problems people have with Windows are in the user mode, and not in the kernel. The pain of reverting straightforward UI/UX/vendor-provided application code that is probably version-controlled and tagged for specific historic Windows releases is 'too high', so, therefore, let's do something that's even higher cost, and...

> windows 13 or 14 will just be a linux distro

Ugh, not this again. It looks like this train of thought will never leave HN commenters who probably have never seriously actually used or programmed on Windows. Literally every week I see 'Windows should keep the same user mode and move to the Linux kernel'.

You guys know what another Linux kernel running a locked-down user mode stack is called? Android.

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slekker
1 hour ago
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Imagine they got their smart engineers to improve and refine Wine (and adjacent tools), rather than pushing out slop, it would be truly amazing
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_heimdall
50 minutes ago
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It seems like a failure in vision from leadership rather than a failure in governance. My understanding is that the company was told from the very top to put AI everywhere and that's exactly what they did.
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lelanthran
3 minutes ago
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They might be getting theborder to Rio it out because if the cost.
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hubertdinsk
38 minutes ago
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Why not both?

Where I work, there have been a lot of pushback where that BS doesn't make a lick of sense (the crown jewel of BS request atm: "let's put AI in the bootloader").

Good governance "should" also mean that those kinds of pushback are encouraged.

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Eddy_Viscosity2
10 minutes ago
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I imagine it went like this:

CEO: Put AI everywhere/

Engineering Staff: There's a lot of places where it doesn't make sense to do this.

CEO: Do it or find somewhere else to work.

The problem of pushback at the lower levels is that it is completely ineffective when the top levels are set on something.

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conartist6
33 minutes ago
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And there's no real evidence of any kind that they positive motivating vision for them other than AI right now.

Sure they want to hide their embarrassment at this second, but I'm not hearing any vision for a future where they make a product designed for someone like me. They don't want me anyore and they've made that quite clear through generations of hostile decisions

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jgalt212
40 minutes ago
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> Obviously this is a complete failure of governance.

How so? The forced feeding of AI is what Satya called for.

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dartharva
54 minutes ago
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You assume Microsoft is interested in offering Windows as a primary consumer product, and not the coercive cross-selling platform that W11 is for Microsoft's higher-margin cloud products. This assumption is wrong.

As an OS, Windows died with 10.

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twilo
38 minutes ago
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Died? It’s been working perfectly fine for me for years now.
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CuriouslyC
48 minutes ago
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I think Windows 11 is the Trump moment. Even if they right the ship, Linux is good enough or good enough is on the near horizon for most use cases so people are jumping ship. There's also bleed from people being tired of Apple's lack of software innovation.
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batrat
51 minutes ago
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But, but, what about those managers? What they are working on? Making explorer better? or AI AI AI?
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OsamaJaber
1 hour ago
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The real issue was never AI in Windows It was AI with no clear user benefit. A Copilot button in Notepad doesn't solve a problem anyone has Good to see them pulling back, but the test will be whether the features they keep actually earn their place in the workflow instead of just being there because someone had a KPI to hit
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ThatMedicIsASpy
37 minutes ago
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Windows 10 searching the web started it all for me - not AI. Followed by constantly changing/moving the option on how to disable it. Use Edge, Onedrive, help finish setting up your PC (by logging in), constant disrespect of me the user.

W11 local accounts only with terminal hacks sealed the deal along with valves contributions to linux.

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nikanj
53 minutes ago
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The might not be a clear user benefit, but there is a clear career benefit. Delivering AI for a billion users looks good on your CV
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greggoB
57 minutes ago
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> The real issue was never AI in Windows It was AI with no clear user benefit

Much of the way AI has been forced upon the world by MS and the likes makes it very difficult to separate the two. The trend of enshittification leading up to LLMs has also not been a solid basis for trust. So yes, for a lot of people, the underlying technology isn't necessarily an issue, but it's kind of hard to imagine it being presented in a non-problematic way given the above, which I suspect is a big part of why there's a growing sentiment of distaste with anything AI now.

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zthrowaway
43 minutes ago
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I can’t believe I’m going to type this, but I miss the Ballmer days. Current leadership has somehow made this company even worse.
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Telaneo
7 minutes ago
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It's a bit like Bush. Sure, what happened back then was indeed stupid, but we didn't know how bad it was going to get.
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nubinetwork
1 hour ago
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They'll pretend to care and change a few things for 6 months, but they'll just keep doing it. /shrug
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Waterluvian
34 minutes ago
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AI feels like the ultimate “a solution in search of a problem.”

Forms of it are very powerful and have a lot of uses for sure. But there seems to be an enormous amount of top-down “figure out how to fit AI into our product/processes” for both producers and consumers.

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g947o
57 minutes ago
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Remove copilot buttons from (new) Windows laptops and we'll talk.
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pico303
14 minutes ago
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Recall is a bloated waste of time that completely misses the point. Why not instead let me snapshot a set of apps and docs/projects that are open, then snapshot a different set of apps and what’s open, and let me flip between the two (or three or four)? This way I could sort out my setup for home versus work, or between multiple clients/customers, and be able to quickly jump between common layouts/apps depending on context. But to be honest, this is probably beyond what Windows APIs are capable of, since Windows can’t even remember what directories I was working in across apps.

I’m not sure why I need to know the history of screenshots that is Recall. Maybe this was simply the best they could do?

That said, Windows 11 is such an AI-fueled privacy dumpster fire that it’s getting replaced by Linux on my gaming PC this month. Then I’m only stuck on Windows for work, and even then I can still write code on Mac or Linux.

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major505
14 minutes ago
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Too be honest, thres is too much wrong with win 11 to save it at this point.

Is not only AI bullshit in my notepad.

The excess adds, intrusive online stuff, terriblee performance for basic tasks like the File Explorer or even opening a menu.

Making everything a damn web page...

One clear example is outlook. Talk wathever you want, outlook, is the indistry standart for e-mail. And while not perfect it was very usefull. Then they keep pushing the new interface on everybody throats. The new interface takes like 1 gb of RAM when in use, agaisnt 200mb of the traditional one, while offering less options. Why would anyone who really cares about e-mail use that shit? People who just casually use e-mails dont use Outlook, they use the webmail.

They choose to ignore the users, and push top down changes into them. But the market dont really works this way for most people. Not every tech company needs to be like Apple.

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Havoc
51 minutes ago
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They need a more fundamental mind shift frankly.

It’s not an AI problem but rather a ram stuff down users throat even when they clearly don’t want it problem.

See broken start menu that does a web search instead showing your apps. See forced online install. See one drive everywhere.

Toning down the AI a bit won’t be enough

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nusl
57 minutes ago
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This entire thing seems very iffy. Not much in the way of concrete info, a lot of speculation, and I seriously doubt that MS will suddenly switch directions. It's just being modified/refactored into smaller suppositories over time rather than the large infrequent ones they seem to have used.
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CuriouslyC
53 minutes ago
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Trying to bake AI into the OS was so dumb. Make the OS super agent friendly, surface as much data as possible in agent accessible way, and perhaps create a journalling config management system so agent actions can be rolled back. Then sit back and let people build cool shit on your base and let people market your product for you.
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nxobject
8 minutes ago
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Agree – "Developers! Developers! Developers! Developers!"
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Frieren
1 hour ago
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Good, maybe Microsoft will start investing to solve real problems and develop better products.

Microsoft have been de-investing in its own companies to put more money into AI. Yes, they have made cuts on highly profitable business to burn money on AI. I hope that they reverse before they fire everyone that was able to build useful software.

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major505
25 minutes ago
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At this point I dont trust common sense in anybody inside Microsoft.

They are doing dumb shit for about 5 years now, and killing MS Office, a brand thats market leader for more than 30 years prooves that anybody who had conservative opinion on how software should be built have already abandoned the ship or was kicked out of it.

Now is being run by "visionary" marketing people, and the only way left is down.

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blibble
19 minutes ago
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5 years? try 10

Windows 10 released with the ability for the user to not consent to updates REMOVED

the direction of travel from that point on was clear

consent was no longer necessary

the OS is purpose is no longer to serve the owner of the computer, it is there to serve Microslop's whims

and that was the point I went full linux everywhere

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mhd
51 minutes ago
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So Copilot in Office is the new "Hall of Tortured Souls"?
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Lucasoato
1 hour ago
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This is absurd, the fact that Windows has 70% if global desktop operating system market share makes them their most important moat, why are they deliberately taking actions and steps to make it worse? They added ads, forced updates, mandatory Microsoft account activation, so much unwanted AI slop... Think about it, if it was another more competitive company, they would be charging for the AI service and the onboarding experience would be totally different. It seems like the management is totally disconnected from their product.
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lloydatkinson
1 hour ago
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I think the summary is that "product owner" types and other agile simulacrums wanted it simply because they viewed it as an easy win towards KPI and other performance metrics. The most damning proof of this is Copilot in Notepad, and that half-attempt at renaming the entire Office suite to simply "Copilot" (they seemed to reverse this a few days later).
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mishac
37 minutes ago
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urgh. What is old is new. "Copilot" is the new omniname, what ".NET" was for a previous generation.
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badgersnake
54 minutes ago
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I think that’s a little harsh. When the CEO groupthink network says AI all the things, what are the PMs supposed to do?
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lloydatkinson
1 hour ago
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I'm hopeful but will wait and see just how much they change. If they remove Copilot from Notepad, I think that would be a reasonable indicator.
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glimshe
28 minutes ago
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We, customers who were annoyed by these AI "improvements", knew we'd eventually get here. We hated these features from the get to.

Now I'm curious: will the executives, paid millions because they are visionaries well ahead mere mortals like us, be fired for this pathetically stupid strategic push?

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lovegrenoble
53 minutes ago
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Please, delete all AI from my Windows
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eimrine
43 minutes ago
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Not your property, sorry.
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yurii_l
42 minutes ago
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It's a shame, I was dreaming of getting a chat-based operating system.

(sarcasm)

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zkmon
54 minutes ago
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Too little, too late.
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Malipeddi
37 minutes ago
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I will believe it when I see it. I have been feeling really helpless and hopeless recently about Windows. So hopefully this news turns into something real.
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TheChaplain
54 minutes ago
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Not surprised it took so long, the decision makers seems to be quite out of touch with the user base.

Which makes me believe that their "walk back" is just to change the packaging of the same old "slop" being shoved down their customers throats.

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zx8080
1 hour ago
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AI overload? It's called "a complete shitshow".
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tokai
17 minutes ago
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Was this push for AI in Microsofts products just to get user number to go up, so investors don't pull out of the AI bubble?
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PlatoIsADisease
41 minutes ago
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Can we walk back on whatever is causing my 3060 computer to work slower than my windows computer from the 1990s? Or my phone?
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Mindwipe
37 minutes ago
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I'll believe it when I see it. Windows many problems are the results of five years of terrible strategy and not caring about if users actually like your platform. It will require sustained effort over a long period to fix.
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