Coding assistants are solving the wrong problem
55 points
2 hours ago
| 5 comments
| bicameral-ai.com
| HN
micw
10 minutes ago
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For me, AI is an enabler for things you can't do otherwise (or that would take many weeks of learning). But you still need to know how to do things properly in general, otherwise the results are bad.

E.g. I'm a software architect and developer for many years. So I know already how to build software but I'm not familiar with every language or framework. AI enabled me to write other kind of software I never learned or had time for. E.g. I recently re-implemented an android widget that has not been updated for a decade by it's original author. Or I fixed a bug in a linux scanner driver. None of these I could have done properly (within an acceptable time frame) without AI. But also none of there I could have done properly without my knowledge and experience, even with AI.

Same for daily tasks at work. AI makes me faster here, but also makes me doing more. Implement tests for all edge cases? Sure, always, I saved the time before. More code reviews. More documentation. Better quality in the same (always limited) time.

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Quothling
12 minutes ago
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I think AI will fail in any organisation where the business process problems are sometimes discuvered during engineering. I use AI quite a lot, I recently had Claude upgrade one of our old services from hubspot api v1 to v3 without basically any human interaction beyond the code review. I had to ask it for two changes I think, but over all I barely got out of my regular work to get it done. I did know exactly what to ask of it because the IT business partners who had discovered the flaw had basically written the tasks already. Anyway. AI worked well there.

Where AI fails us is when we build new software to improve the business related to solar energy production and sale. It fails us because the tasks are never really well defined. Or even if they are, sometimes developers or engineers come up with a better way to do the business process than what was planned for. AI can write the code, but it doesn't refuse to write the code without first being told why it wouldn't be a better idea to do X first. If we only did code-reviews then we would miss that step.

In a perfect organisation your BPM people would do this. In the world I live in there are virtually no BPM people, and those who know the processes are too busy to really deal with improving them. Hell... sometimes their processes are changed and they don't realize until their results are measurably better than they used to be. So I think it depends a lot on the situation. If you've got people breaking up processes, improving them and then decribing each little bit in decent detail. Then I think AI will work fine, otherwise it's probably not the best place to go full vibe.

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zkmon
17 minutes ago
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Wondering why is ths on front page? There is hardly any new insight other than a few minutes of exposure to greenish glow that makes everything looks brownish after you close that page.
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monero-xmr
1 hour ago
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First you must accept that engineering elegance != market value. Only certain applications and business models need the crème de le crème of engineers.

LLM has been hollowing out the mid and lower end of engineering. But has not eroded highest end. Otherwise all the LLM companies wouldn’t pay for talent, they’d just use their own LLM.

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adithyassekhar
59 minutes ago
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It's not just about elegance.

I'm going to give an example of a software with multiple processes.

Humans can imagine scenarios where a process can break. Claude can also do it, but only when the breakage happens from inside the process and if you specify it. It can not identify future issues from a separate process unless you specifically describe that external process, the fact that it could interact with our original process and the ways in which it can interact.

Identifying these are the skills of a developer, you could say you can document all these cases and let the agent do the coding. But here's the kicker, you only get to know these issues once you started coding them by hand. You go through the variables and function calls and suddenly remember a process elsewhere changes or depends on these values.

Unit tests could catch them in a decently architected system, but those tests needs to be defined by the one coding it. Also if the architect himself is using AI, because why not, it's doomed from the start.

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WD-42
29 minutes ago
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I keep hearing this but I don’t understand. If inelegant code means more bugs that are harder to fix later, that translates into negative business value. You won’t see it right away which is probably where this sentiment is coming from, but it will absolutely catch up to you.

Elegant code isn’t just for looks. It’s code that can still adapt weeks, months, years after it has shipped and created “business value”.

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locknitpicker
7 minutes ago
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> I keep hearing this but I don’t understand. If inelegant code means more bugs that are harder to fix later, that translates into negative business value.

That's a rather short-sighted opinion. Ask yourself how "inelegant code" find it's way into a codebase, even with working code review processes.

The answer more often than not is what's typically referred to as tech debt driven development. Meaning, sometimes a hacky solution with glaring failure modes left unaddressed is all it takes to deliver a major feature in a short development cycle. Once the feature is out, it becomes less pressing to pay off that tech debt because the risk was already assumed and the business value was already created.

Later you stumble upon a weird bug in your hacky solution. Is that bug negative business value?

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slau
1 hour ago
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OT: I applaud your correct use of the grave accent, however minor nitpick: crème in French is feminine, therefore it would be “la”.
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crabmusket
20 minutes ago
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There's an interesting aside about the origin of the phrase in Leslie Claret's Integral Principles of the Structural Dynamics of Flow

https://youtu.be/ca27ndN2fVM?si=hNxSY6vm0g-Pt7uR

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pmontra
53 minutes ago
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Well, it takes time to assess and adapt, and large organizations need more time than smaller ones. We will see.

In my experience the limiting factor is doing the right choices. I've got a costumer with the usual backlog of features. There are some very important issues in the backlog that stay in the backlog and are never picked for a sprint. We're doing small bug fixes, but the big ones. We're doing new features that are in part useless because of the outstanding bugs that prevent customers from fully using them. AI can make us code faster but nobody is using it to sort issues for importance.

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exodust
41 minutes ago
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> nobody is using it to sort issues for importance

True, and I'd add the reminder that AI doesn't care. When it makes mistakes it pretends to be sorry.

Simulated emotion is dangerous IMHO, it can lead to undeserved trust. I always tell AI to never say my name, and never use exclamation points or simulated emotion. "Be the cold imperfect calculator that you are."

When it was giving me complements for noticing things it failed to, I had to put a stop to that. Very dangerous. When business decisions or important technical decisions are made by an entity that literally is incapable of caring, but instead pretends to like a sociopath, that's when trouble brews.

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Madmallard
50 minutes ago
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Based on my experience using Claude opus 4.5, it doesn't really even get functionality correct. It'll get scaffolding stuff right if you tell it exactly what you want but as soon as you tell it to do testing and features it ranges from mediocre to worse than useless.
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verdverm
24 minutes ago
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meh piece, don't feel like I learned anything from it. Mainly words around old stats in a rapidly evolving field, and then trying to pitch their product

tl;dr content marketing

There is this super interesting post in new about agent swarms and how the field is evolving towards formal verification like airlines, or how there are ideas we can draw on. Any, imo it should be on the front over this piece

"Why AI Swarms Cannot Build Architecture"

An analysis of the structural limitations preventing AI agent swarms from producing coherent software architecture

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46866184

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locknitpicker
15 minutes ago
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> meh piece, don't feel like I learned anything from it.

That's fine. I found the leading stats interesting. If coding assistants slowed down experienced developers while creating a false sense of development speed then that should be thought-provoking. Also, nearly half of code churned by coding assistants having security issues. That he's tough.

Perhaps it's just me, but that's in line with my personal experience, and I rarely see those points being raised.

> There is this super interesting post in new about agent swarms and how (...)

That's fine. Feel free to submit the link. I find it far more interesting to discuss the post-rose tinted glasses view of coding agents. I don't think it makes any sense at all to laud promises of formal verification when the same technology right now is unable to introduce security vulnerabilities.

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verdverm
1 minute ago
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> Feel free to submit the link

I did, or someone else did, it's the link in the post you replied to

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verdverm
2 minutes ago
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> found the leading stats interesting

They are from before the current generation of models and agent tools, they are almost certainly different and will continue to evolve

We're still learning to crawl, haven't gotten to walking yet

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