Lessons you will learn living in a snowy place
116 points
4 days ago
| 18 comments
| eukaryotewritesblog.com
| HN
yokoprime
1 hour ago
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> In the first really heavy winter storm of the year, your power might go off. This is understandable

Having lived in Norway most of my 40+ years on this earth, I can with some confidence say that this is not an universal truth. I don’t think I’ve experienced any power interruption of over 1 hour in winter ever, and it’s been at least 5 years since the last time. Yes it snows here. A lot.

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coffeebeqn
10 minutes ago
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Article should be called Lessons you learn living in a place where it regularly snows but with terrible infrastructure and seemingly no societal preparedness for said regular snow
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westpfelia
39 minutes ago
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Live in Nordland on a island. Lost power for about two and a half minutes on Christmas day. I dont even think anyone but me noticed since it was still early.

Even when I was living in the snowier parts of America we didnt lose power. I would say losing power is not a universal truth in the slightest.

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fwsgonzo
8 minutes ago
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Same here, also on an island. We lost power for ~8 hours during a storm, however that is the longest I've ever experienced. I have this stone fireplace: https://www.norskkleber.no/ovner/marcello/ (Marcello 140), which kept my 75sqm living room heated through the whole thing.

Since that storm, we have decided to buy a second fireplace for upstairs with a cooking top.

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dboreham
2 minutes ago
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Even a backward country like the USA, our power has never gone out in the winter. Only in the summer due to lightning strikes.
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da_chicken
18 minutes ago
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I've lived in Michigan for about the same length of time, and even with the terrible service our current power companies are providing the only time I've lost power for more than a few minutes during the winter has been after an ice storm.
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cwillu
28 minutes ago
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Yeah, that's not a thing here in saskatchewan either.
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colechristensen
1 hour ago
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Those of us with above ground power lines especially not in cities experience power outages. Particularly when it's near freezing and there's significant ice accumulation.
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mzi
48 minutes ago
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In the Nordics it's very rare. There were power outages this year that lasted for more than 24h for some customers. So naturally there was a public inquiry into how the power companies let that happen.
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brabel
24 minutes ago
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In Sweden it also almost never happens but this year there was a hurricane like storm that fell lots of trees and thousands of people had no power for days. But yeah it wasn’t because of snow.
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nxpnsv
51 minutes ago
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We have above ground power lines in the nordics too. They are just built to handle our climate.
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MaulingMonkey
19 minutes ago
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Where I live (pacific northwest), it's not snow that's the problem, but windstorms. Presumably knocking over trees, which in turn takes down power lines - which of course implies said trees are tall, in proximity to the power lines, and not cut down. I maybe average 24 hours of outage per year (frequently less, but occasionally spiking to a multi-day outage.)

I don't think that's something that can be solved with just "build quality"... but it presumably could be solved through "maintainence" (cutting down or trimming trees, although that requires identifying the problem, permissions, a willingness to have decreased tree coverage, etc.)

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matttproud
22 minutes ago
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Yeah, it was interesting to see some above-ground-to-the-premises power delivery in some of the smaller Norwegian villages above the arctic circle. Things looked rather robust, though.

I lived in the Oklahoma and in Minnesota, and the difference there is already stark:

* OK suffered from plenty of storm-induced winter power outages (massive freezing rain cycles were common in my life). My mother's cotton bath robe, which she kept using until late in her life, had burn marks from when she reached for something over a lit candle during a power outage when I was four years old.

* MN suffers some, but people knew to develop meaningful contingency plans.

Both states have variegated buried-power-to-the-premises usage. It's not really to be expected as the norm in either place, but MN has far more than OK (funnily enough I grew up in a place in OK with it). Either way, the infrastructure robustness in North America looks like it arose from a dismal cost-benefit analysis versus a societal welfare consideration.

I left North America about 14 years ago for Europe. The difference is stark. We've only had one significant power interruption in that time (not even in winter); whereas stochastic neighborhood outages were commonplace in North America. What really freaks me out about the situation in North America is just the poor insulation of the structures and their low thermal mass. They will get cold fast.

Aside: A lot of friends and family in North America balked at the idea of getting a heat pump due to performance during a power outage: "when the power goes out, I can still run my gas." When I asked them whether the house was heated with forced air or used an electronic thermostatic switches, the snarky smile turned to a grimace.

When you live in a cold place, you learn to do things differently. You're naive if you don't pack warm blankets and water in your vehicle, for instance. You never know when you might find yourself stranded somewhere due to vehicular breakdown …

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LeafItAlone
15 minutes ago
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I lived in such a place and never had power outages. Mostly because the power company came through on a regular basis (two years or so) and chopped down and trees that could cause problems. Some areas definitely looked terrible from a beauty standpoint, but it meant keeping power.
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watwut
27 minutes ago
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That is bad infrastructure problem. Not a necessary feature. Near freezing should be non issue.
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jonasdegendt
5 minutes ago
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Took a winter trip to Norway once with friends, which included a Norwegian that'd immigrated away to the much milder climate the rest of us were all used to. We got a meter of overnight snow and I'd never seen a person so eager to get shoveling, it took her right back to her childhood. What a machine too, once she got going.

We were dealing with -10C to -20C , but as someone else pointed out my takeaway was that it's really your extremities that you need to think about, there rest of my body was easy to keep warm in comparison. I ended up taking a pair of winter motorcycle gloves I had laying around on the trip, water and wind proof and those worked like a charm with an additional pair of thin, inner gloves, so there's a tip!

I didn't quite nail keeping my feet warm though, but I was wearing regular hiking boots with very thick wool socks. Still felt like I was draining heat to the ground at a rapid rate though.

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computerdork
1 hour ago
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Moved a year ago from California to northern Michigan. To add to this list, specifically regarding "Do NOT get wet and cold":

o If you're walking out in the cold, have many different ways to keep your feet and your hands warm, because usually, you'll have a good-enough coat and winter-pants that'll keep your core relatively warm, but it's the very ends of your extremities that get cold (just got a small amount of frost bite on my toes the other day).

o On top of really thick gloves and socks, can buy some battery-heated versions of both. These aren't just gimmicks, they work wonders! As do the standard handwarmers and toewarmers

o Get real winter boots, these are water proof and insulated, so your feet won't get wet, and will resist the cold for longer (didn't learn this one until recently. Yeah, once your shoes get wet enough to bleed into your socks, you feet start to freeze).

o For your head and neck, carry one of those head and neck covers with you in your coat pocket (called a balaclava). Because sometimes you misread the weather and suddenly you've got a 5 degree wind chill streaming over your neck and face.

o etc:)

And, actually, walking in the snow is really nice (so clean and pure), which is why a lot of us here do actually go outside.

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degosuke
1 minute ago
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Any recommendations about the boots? Or what to check for?
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oldestofsports
36 minutes ago
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This guy has mastered the art of dressing for winter https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XG3WfCWU9D0
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internet_points
14 minutes ago
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> battery-heated versions

all the ones I've seen when researching were lithium-ion from sketchy-looking brands, any brands you recommend?

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hysan
1 hour ago
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Something about the tone of the article just makes me want to write a retort / criticism instead of praising the advice. Maybe it’s because it feels like an incomplete list or that it’s too generalized but written like the author has learned it all. For example, no mention of learning when and what to do to avoid frozen pipes. Or how to fix things when it happens. Also, shoveling snow isn’t that hard if you have the right snow shoveling equipment and know a bit of physics (which in my experience, locals will gladly teach you).
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fwipsy
46 minutes ago
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It's not really meant to be advice. It's the author's own experience, ironically written as if it were advice.

For example:

"You did bleach ten gallons of well water for long-term storage already earlier in the year, right? Good."

This is sarcasm, because the author did not do that.

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dboreham
1 minute ago
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Perhaps it's an AI generated article. A real human would have realized quite quickly that you can put snow into the tank of a toilet when the power is out.
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hysan
38 minutes ago
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Ah I see. That didn’t translate well for me. Maybe because the title primed me into thinking that this was meant to be helpful.
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vl
53 minutes ago
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I actually enjoyed the writing. It's clearly reflection on the experience presented as an "advice list" somewhat jokingly. Since author didn't enjoy the experience, tone is somber. After spending childhood in the cold place I can relate.
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slillibri
2 hours ago
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The main lesson I learned was I didn’t have to live in a snowy place. I left SW Michigan in 2000 and haven’t looked back. I don’t like being cold, but I loathe snow and ice.
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Tor3
56 seconds ago
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Cold and dry is not a problem. You can always just add more layers of clothing and get very comfortable.

Warm and humid is a real problem. You can't just remove clothing until you're comfortable. And the humidity.. there's no remedy to fix that.

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mattikl
1 hour ago
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I've lived all my life in Finland, even though all through my early adulthood I was planning to move to some place much warmer. But later (especially now with children for whom the snow is so exciting) I've come to like the four seasons and the balance it gives.

That article was a strange read from my perspective, because here the infrastructure is built for winters as well. I don't remember school ever being canceled due to winter conditions, traffic is only a mess after a snowstorm.

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ozim
7 minutes ago
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I hate bugs, I specifically like late autumn/winter/early spring cold times because there are almost no bugs. I don't mind snow/ice as much.
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richiezc
1 hour ago
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+1 I grew up in CA, went to college in IL and couldn't move back fast enough!
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fulafel
1 hour ago
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A lot of this seems to deal with unreliable electricity infrastructure and effects thereof. Is it just normal in the US and people in warmer places don't mind so much, or does it somehow correlate with snow?
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dlcarrier
16 minutes ago
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Rural areas are much more common in the US than in other countries and much more likely to lose power in a storm, due to the long lengths of power line needed and the lack of redundancy from being too sparse to have multiple feed-ins to the local substation.

It's not the cold that knocks out power, it's the wet and saturated ground and high winds knocking trees into the power lines.

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curation
45 minutes ago
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I grew up in Canadian snowbelt (Great Lakes) and never lost power. If there is an ice storm - then we all freak out. I'm not saying it can't happen if a lot of snow falls and then there is wind but we lose power in summer more often from squirrels trying to nest in transformers. The biggest blackout I experienced was in Toronto in a summer heatwave.
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friendzis
1 hour ago
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I live on the metric side of the Atlantic. Winter means extra tension on wires, extra load on trees leading to higher risk of air lines broken. At the same time you have decreased number of man-hours in a day, decreased efficiency in those hours and difficulty reaching points of failure physically. This leads to high stress on maintenance in an event of a snowstorm. Depending how inclined your country is to vote for the MBA-style policies, there are chances your maintenance crews are already at near-capacity and therefore such an "adversary" event can easily lead to some a bit more remote areas left without electricity for a week at -20°C. Having A+++ house with photovoltaic cells will not help in that case.
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pests
1 hour ago
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Snow and ice builds up on overhead powerlines. It can cause issues. States with tornados or hurricanes are more likely to build underground which avoids this. My location in SE Michigan is all overhead and, while we rarely lose power, I see tons of issues every ice storm that some unlucky few suffer through.

I live very near a hospital and suspect I branch off their higher-SLA lines so that may be a factor.

Warmer places that don't experience cold much absolutely suffer during a cold spell. Texas (with its independent grid) has been absolutely wrecked every time it gets too cold.

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joecool1029
1 hour ago
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> I live very near a hospital

Yeah, you won’t lose power much. That’s prioritized.

I don’t get as many power outages in the winter as I do in the warmer months (in fall it’s not unusual to have some weeks without grid power). I did however get a freak outage before the last round of storms and cold. The overhead lines coming up the mountain to me have wetlands at the bottom, it appears a sudden extreme drop in temperature caused the wires to contract and tilted a pole enough (before ground could refreeze) to disconnect the lines. This is in NJ. JCP&L/firstenergy utility just does a shit job here.

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yxhuvud
1 hour ago
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Trees fall down due to combination of heavy snow and wind. They probably don't cut sufficiently around power lines. It is extra bad if the ground hasn't frozen properly yet.

In some places it may be cheaper to dig down the cable than facing storms.

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ndndndndj
1 hour ago
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But why are power lines above ground in the first place?
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Slothrop99
47 minutes ago
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Just to add, a lot of the midwestern USA is very swampy.
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bob1029
1 hour ago
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Makes them a lot easier to get to. Buried infrastructure is fantastic until it breaks. Then it really sucks ass.

A lineman can fix anything on a pole within a few hours. Probably before lunch if they start first thing in the AM. Fixing a buried line can take days or worse depending on what's above it.

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Marsymars
40 minutes ago
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> Buried infrastructure is fantastic until it breaks. Then it really sucks ass.

Or if you want to upgrade it. My local electricity provider charges an order of magnitude more for upgrading home electrical service for more amperage if your service line is buried.

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joecool1029
1 hour ago
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cost, it’s way more expensive to dig. more red tape.
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bigstrat2003
1 hour ago
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I don't have enough data to generalize across the US, but I grew up in a cold, snowy state (Wisconsin) and we almost never lost power. It happened, but it was pretty rare. We did have a generator for such instances, but that was because we had a dairy farm and the cooling unit for the milk tank needed to be kept running even if utility power was down.
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brettgriffin
1 hour ago
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Put winter tires on your vehicles. I'm surprised by the number of people who tool around in snow and ice in 'all season' tires.

Also, that writing tone is obnoxious.

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qixv
1 hour ago
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I find it quite funny. I read it as if he is obnoxious towards himself, because the lessons presented are learned the hard way.
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dlcarrier
27 minutes ago
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I'm in the foothills in Northern California, and I've never met anyone here that changes their ties out for winter. When there's chain controls, they'll let you through if you have winter rated tires, including all-season, and all-wheel drive, otherwise you need chains.

Everyone I know who drives a lot in the snow gets a vehicle with all-wheel drive and everyone else carries chains. (really they're cables, on a small vehicle)

The difference between what winter-only tires can handle vs winter-rated all-season tires is so minimal that they're not with getting. Chance ate conditions are either fine for the all-season tie or there so bad that the difference is inconsequential and you need all-wheel drive or chains.

I've only heard of people changing their tires on the Midwest, where snowfalls are in the inches, not feet.

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brabel
20 minutes ago
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Interesting, here in Sweden it’s mandatory to change tires. Once I did it a bit late and drove on some ice, just a little. The car was like on ice skates for a little while .
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dlcarrier
5 minutes ago
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I wonder if it's a carryover of an old regulation that used to make sense. Modern all-season tires are better in snow than the best winter tires were several decades ago.

Also, you need studs or chains to get traction on ice. The difference between a winter tire and a summer tire is the temperature range where the rubber stays flexible. When the rubber gets hard, it will keep its shape instead of complying with the surface of the road, so it loses traction quicker. Ice is flat, so there's no difference between tire types, and there's nothing to grip on to.

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matttproud
13 minutes ago
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Driving discipline, culture, and rules in North America are Mickey Mouse.

The reality of car dependency there means that there are people driving and owning cars who can't really afford to do it properly, nor do they know they need to do it properly (e.g., having a second set of tires for the winter). You can see this evidenced by the rust buckets on the road that look like they are one pothole away from losing part of the vehicle body. Deferred maintenance and investment everywhere and in everything …

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shaky-carrousel
15 minutes ago
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The writing tone is obviously self-deprecating.
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bigstrat2003
1 hour ago
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Eh, all seasons do you just fine. Not worth the effort to put winter tires on, imo.
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joecool1029
1 hour ago
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You’re right usually (about not needing blizzaks) but there’s important nuance here. There are warm all season (with usual M+S stamped on, this just means tread pattern, nothing about compound) and winter all-season with a compatible compound for cold conditions. The industry created a logo for the tires some years back it’s like 3 peak mountain snowflake or something. This ensures the compound is soft enough to keep gripping in freezing temperatures. It’s required in some jurisdictions (Quebec I think and maybe some lake effect zones)
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Ekaros
1 hour ago
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There is lot of variation between tires. From summer, to all season, to European winter to Nordic winter(studdles or studded). Only Nordic ones designed specifically for snow and ice are really usable in conditions where there is often snow and ice. They fare worse in wet not freezing conditions and ofc in dry.

But not all winter tires are made equivalent.

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fifilura
26 minutes ago
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I only trust studded tiers (but i live close to a non-paved road that is always very icy during the end of the season).

But that said - there are lots of research that points towards that studded tires kill more people than they save lives because of the asphalt particles they cause.

But then there are people that claim that non-studded cars rely on at least 10% cars with studded tires to make the surface more rugged/rough.

Anyway, down the rabbit hole.

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colechristensen
1 hour ago
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Following an ambulance a couple years back I was up to 110 mph on my rather aggressive snow tires and was just fine. Not to say it wasn't a little worse, but I was fine. Everything you're saying is an exaggeration. A whole lot of people in snowy areas don't drive with snow tires and are usually fine. Good snow tires are a bit of a superpower up north but we all learn how to drive without them being a requirement outside of times where traveling at all is questionable.
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antupis
1 hour ago
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Difference is pretty big if it’s icy like breaking 100 meters vs 10 meters. Especially if there’s wildlife like reindeers/moose’s you are going to do emergency breathing semi regularly.
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literalAardvark
1 hour ago
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If it's icy there's no difference at all. The only tyres that do anything on ice are the ones with spikes or chains.

If it's snowy a good modern all weather tyre can hold its own, but will brake a few feet later than a good winter tyre.

In all other conditions a good all weather is a lot better than winter tyres, and pretty close to a good summer tyre.

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nucleardog
58 minutes ago
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I... Well, I had started explaining point by point how wrong this is but frankly the answer is just "all of it, very".

I've driven summer tires, all season tires, winter tires, and studded winter tires in every season in Canada. (Yes, I live in Canada and own borderline-usless summer-only tires. Yes, I've tried driving them in snow.)

None of what you're saying lines up with my own experience, various YouTube videos on braking distances, or literally anything else I've ever seen anywhere.

Edit: And, well, to be clear... I've lived on the West coast of Canada where it's a bit more mild but you're in the mountains, in the middle where it hits -50, and in the East where it only hits -30 but snows like hell.

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ThrowawayTestr
1 hour ago
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You must live in Florida or be a terrible driver. The difference between winter and all seasons is very apparent.
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Slothrop99
44 minutes ago
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Just pointing out - a lot of snowy areas are very aggressive about plowing (and salting). For most people this is probably like "don't drive tomorrow" and not some need for knobby snow tires.
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literalAardvark
1 hour ago
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It is.

However the difference between winter and a modern all weather (it's a different class) isn't.

And yes, we're probably terrible drivers.

I do not live in Florida. 45N, continental winters.

I'm never using winter tyres again unless society breaks down and no one shovels the roads anymore.

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tgsovlerkhgsel
11 minutes ago
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> instruction manuals ... often have useful information ... A surprising number of my peers don’t realize this.

That's because instruction manuals always have a lot of useless information, and many of them have only such useless information. One of my computer mice came with guidance to avoid prolonged contact with skin and I'm pretty sure nothing in that manual was of any value.

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Tor3
5 minutes ago
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Manuals used to have tens of pages of useful information, if not more. These days it's just tens, if not a hundred pages of (mostly meaningless) warnings, in different languages, and sometimes only that. If you're lucky there's a single page of mostly pictures and a few lines of text, and typically just the obvious parts. I went through some old storage boxes yesterday. Found "manuals" for a number of items. One had four manuals. Turned out it was just that they could only stuff half a dozen languages of warnings in one manual, so they made a bunch of them, all just the same warnings, in different languages. More paper for the recycling centre.
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tgsovlerkhgsel
2 minutes ago
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I particularly miss the spec page that used to be standard in every manual and is now increasingly rare.

Of course, the really old/good manuals also had schematics, and there were a few cases where those were really help when we actually had to repair stuff like that. For some simpler things that would make sense even today but it ain't happening...

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krzyk
1 hour ago
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> In the first really heavy winter storm of the year, your power might go off. This is understandable but you do have to think about it beforehand.

Power going is last thing I would think happens in such place. I understand wind, but snow? I get that rural places might get power cables in the air, but in cities those should go underground.

I live in rural area, close to big city in a semi snowy place (depends on winter), in the last 10 years power went out only when constructions workers cut it out because they had to do some work on them.

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colechristensen
1 hour ago
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Ice on power lines. It's the freezing rain mix in just the right conditions that builds up ice on anything and takes down lines.
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jve
39 minutes ago
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> 5. Snow is easiest to shovel when it’s just fallen. The more time passes, the more freeze-thaw cycles – even gentle ones – build up and make the fallen snow denser and tougher. (This might be less true in very cold places where it never gets above freezing during the day? I don’t know, honestly.)

If it is very cold and no freeze-thaw cycle, the snow is very... Dry and grainy and still OK for shoveling.

But yes, the puffy stuff just fallen from sky is very nice for shoveling.

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jader201
40 minutes ago
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One thing this article doesn’t cover (but probably should): shoveling snow has a fairly high risk of heart attacks (especially past 50):

https://newsroom.heart.org/news/snow-shoveling-can-be-hazard...

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delis-thumbs-7e
18 minutes ago
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I suspect it is because snow storms are fairly rare or at least random and quite a few people do not a) realise they have not done much of any physical exercise for ages b) think shoveling snow is easy, try to do it fast and take too big loads into shovel (which you can with snow, but not with sand). For older people this might mean overexertion and possible seizure, if their cardiovascular health is not well either.

Solution: don’t be a hero. Take breaks. Take smaller shovelfuls. If the first ten shovelfuls are hard, how hard is the 1000th going to be? I live in Finland, are fairly fit and quite strong, but shoveling the car out of thick snow for half an hour is pretty hard work for me. For an older person, it must be double as hard.

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yxhuvud
1 hour ago
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8: that's why you have sharper slopes on the roof if you expect a lot of snow. Then it glide off.

We have to get our city house roof shoveled, but it is more making certain it don't fall on top of someone.

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N_Lens
2 hours ago
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I think this trend of writing in the second person needs to mature into a more accurate first person account. It’s an immature human tendency to universalise one’s experience, and it takes maturity to see that situations are different from context to context. A lot of this article doesn't seem to generalize to every snowy place on the planet.
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rags2riches
56 minutes ago
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If you let people walk on snow, it turns to ice. Shovel that snow asap. Also keep a brush on your doorstep and always use it to clear off the small patches of snow that falls off your shoes, lest you soon have patches of ice there.
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internet_points
6 minutes ago
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+1, I learnt too late how useful a brush is, also for clearing small puffy snowfalls much faster than shovelling
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jmspring
1 hour ago
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I spent 7 years living in an area with 1m acre fires, winters that were 4 feet in april and nothing in december. Having a house setup where you have multiple heat sources - important. My fireplace had a fan and my kerosene heater was pretty low maintenance as well - a honda 2200 generator under the eaves - only needed once.

UPSs for power outages.

Chest freezer - put those 1 gallon crystal springs (if in western us) jugs in to have ice blocks.

Have warm clothing. If you live in an HOA, be on top of them plowing both common areas and walk ways (mine was supposed to, FedEx/UPS/DHL all let me know - the walkway couldn't be an ice sheet).

Ensure you have access to a vehicle to get your to the services you need.

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jmspring
1 hour ago
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I hated the reference to burning man. Most burning man people I have dealt with don't plan long term (aside from the event) and the long term planning they do have - isn't usually at their home.
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jmspring
1 hour ago
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For context, I was born/raised SF Bay Area. Moved to Plumas County (north of Truckee) in 2017 for about 8 years. Didn't mind the snow - have a tacoma trd off road. The electric coop was amazeballs even when PGE tried to screw with them. I've since moved. I like rural - but the wild fires and trumptopia kinda soured me.

I live on an island now with a driveway that has 15-20 degree slope. It snows rarely, but garage is insulated and I need to get a heater near the water pipes. It snowed the one day I had to get to the ferry at 650am for jury duty. I'm glad I had the TRD - it wasn't much but waking up to - doo-dee-doo - drive to ferry and unexpected 2" of snow...causes some anxeity.

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Quothling
48 minutes ago
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24. Check your attic. If snow blows in there because your roof is damaged then it will melt and slowly turn your entire house into fungi. The damage to your roof can be so tiny you wouldn't spot it and your attic could still fill up during a snow storm.

It should frankly be nr 1. At least if you ask any Scandinavian dad.

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Marsymars
37 minutes ago
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This is a concern of mine, and my attics (3 of them due to the way the house is built) are pretty inconvenient to check, so I put some battery-powered temp/humidity sensors in them.

Haven't gotten around to setting up any alerting thresholds though... I'm not actually entirely sure what temp/humidity thresholds would actually be useful.

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keiferski
36 minutes ago
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I grew up in a snowy place and I still live in one. I tell myself every year that this negative experience “builds character”, that being stuck inside forces one to be more intellectual, read more, etc.

I kind of still believe that story, but as I get older it starts to feel like cope, and the sunny shores of Miami / Spain / Warm Place seem more full of life.

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yakshaving_jgt
41 minutes ago
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I've spent the past month in the mountains in Ukraine, and it's between as low as -18ºC at times. Terrorists from russia have repeatedly knocked out power generation, and so on many days we have very little access to electricity in the house. Today we have 15.5 hours without power.

During the day, we'll be somewhere where they have a generator. At night, it's cold. But you can somewhat prepare for this. Two or three layers of duvets and blankets, paired with a hot water bottle somewhere in the middle of the bed under the covers will get you through the night.

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