Carl Sagan's Baloney Detection Kit: Tools for Thinking Critically (2025)
37 points
7 hours ago
| 6 comments
| openculture.com
| HN
scns
31 minutes ago
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The article links to an article about Sagans' prediction of the decline of america. Strangely fitting nowadays.

> I have a foreboding of an America in my children’s or grandchildren’s time — when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers are in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what’s true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness…

https://www.openculture.com/2025/02/carl-sagan-predicts-the-...

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clawlrbot
23 minutes ago
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Sounds like the EU
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zyxzevn
1 hour ago
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While skeptical, he did not have much skepticism against mainstream theories.

I think it needs another item in the list: For any theory/ hypothesis: how well does it stand against the null-hypothesis? For example: How much physical evidence is there really for the string-theory?

And I would upgrade this one: If there’s a chain of physical evidence (was argument), every link in the chain must work (including the premise) — not just most of them

And when breaking these items do not mean that something is false. It means that the arguments and evidence is incomplete. Don't jump to conclusions when you think that the arguments or evidence is invalid (that is how some people even think that the moonlanding was a hoax).

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ajross
28 minutes ago
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> While skeptical, he did not have much skepticism against mainstream theories.

That's tautological. The definition of a "mainstream theory" is one that is widely believed. And while, sure, sometimes scientific paradigms are wrong (c.f. Kuhn), that's rare. Demanding someone be "skeptical" of theories that end up wrong is isomorphic to demanding that they be a preternatural genius in all things able to see through mistakes that all the world's experts cannot. That doesn't work.

(It's 100% not enough just to apply a null hypothesis argument, btw!)

Really that's all of a piece with his argument. It's not a recipe for detecting truth (he didn't have one, and neither do you[1]). It's a recipe for detecting when arguments are unsupported by scientific consensus. That's not the same thing, but it's closer than other stuff like "trust".

(And it's 100% better th an applying a null-hypothesis argument, to be clear.)

[1] Well, we do, but it's called "the scientific method" and it's really, really hard. Not something to deploy in an internet argument.

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kgwxd
45 minutes ago
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The people for whom this stuff isn't glaringly obvious, relatively early in life, will never get it. Except, maybe, specific instances that directly affect them in a bad way. Switch "brands" and they'll be fooled again. They'll probably even double-down on it.
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philipallstar
31 minutes ago
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> The people for whom this stuff isn't glaringly obvious, relatively early in life, will never get it

How do you know this?

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AdamN
22 minutes ago
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Yeah I hard disagree with their statement.

I've come to observe with having kids (and also moving to Germany and seeing other kids shaped) that so so much is taught. There is a ton born into a kid but so many things like the ability to think critically about a problem is actually taught in primary school and early years education (kindergarten/kita/preschool). There might be some raw horsepower that some people have more or less of with regards to certain problem spaces but for the most part - how to tackle a problem and think critically is very much a learned skill that some may get on their own but it can certainly also be given to them.

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nobody9999
7 hours ago
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Original Title:

Carl Sagan’s Baloney Detection Kit: Tools for Thinking Critically & Knowing Pseudoscience When You See It

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jgalt212
20 minutes ago
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In these fractious times, I think we're all very good at scrutinizing other side of the aisle, and not so good at self-reflection.

As a committed centrist, I am very good at fairly scrutinizing everything. /s

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chistev
3 hours ago
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Acclaimed science author Carl Sagan illustrated this challenge with his “dragon in the garage” analogy. If someone claims to have a dragon that is invisible, silent, intangible, and undetectable by any means, there is no practical difference between the dragon’s existence and non-existence. Similarly, without verifiable evidence, the existence of an immortal soul remains unproven.

https://www.rxjourney.net/the-possibility-of-life-after-deat...

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RcouF1uZ4gsC
51 minutes ago
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Doesn’t silent, invisible, intangible also apply to software?

You can’t really tell a particular piece of hardware is running software by a direct physical measurement. You can only infer that indirectly.

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kesslern
2 minutes ago
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If software were undetectable by any means, we'd have no way to run software or tell which software is running at a given time.
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dghf
3 minutes ago
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What? Yes you can. I know my laptop is running a web browser because I can see it and interact with it. That's a physical measurement.
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Zigurd
32 minutes ago
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Having debugged code with a logic analyzer, I'm pretty sure the voltage on those CPU pins is real, and really the consequence of the code I think I'm running.
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nobody9999
3 hours ago
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>If someone claims to have a dragon that is invisible, silent, intangible, and undetectable by any means, there is no practical difference between the dragon’s existence and non-existence.

“Everyone knows that dragons don’t exist. But while this simplistic formulation may satisfy the layman, it does not suffice for the scientific mind. The School of Higher Neantical Nillity is in fact wholly unconcerned with what does exist. Indeed, the banality of existence has been so amply demonstrated, there is no need for us to discuss it any further here. The brilliant Cerebron, attacking the problem analytically, discovered three distinct kinds of dragon: the mythical, the chimerical, and the purely hypothetical. They were all, one might say, nonexistent, but each non-existed in an entirely different way.” ― Stanisław Lem, The Cyberiad

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chistev
3 hours ago
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mdallastella
2 hours ago
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Love that book!
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qsera
3 hours ago
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The dragon in the room is the hidden qualifier for "undetectable by any means" is "that is currently known to humanity".

That makes Carl Sagan's claim some what Balonish. Not sure why the smart Sagan fell for it.

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GetTheFacts
24 minutes ago
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Your "argument" reminds me of this:

The Rabbit's Thesis

Scene: It's a fine sunny day in the forest; and a rabbit is sitting outside his burrow, tippy-tapping on his lap top. Along comes a fox, out for a walk.

Fox: "What are you working on?" Rabbit: "My thesis." Fox: "Hmmmmm. What is it about?" Rabbit: "Oh, I'm writing about how rabbits eat foxes."

(incredulous pause) Fox: "That's ridiculous! Any fool knows that rabbits don't eat foxes!" Rabbit: "Come with me and I'll show you!"

They both disappear into the rabbit's burrow. After a few minutes, gnawing on a fox bone, the rabbit returns to his lap top and resumes typing.

Soon a wolf comes along and stops to watch the hard working rabbit.

(Tippy-tap, tippy-tap, tippy-tippy-tap).

Wolf: "What's that you are writing?" Rabbit: "I'm doing a thesis on how rabbits eat wolves."

(loud guffaws). Wolf: "You don't expect to get such rubbish published, do you?" Rabbit: "No problem. Do you want to see why?"

The rabbit and the wolf go into the burrow, and again the rabbit returns by himself. This time he is patting his stomach. He goes back to his typing.

(Tippy-tap, tippy-tap, tippy-tippy-tap).

Finally a bear comes along and asks, "What are you doing?"

Rabbit: "I'm doing a thesis on how rabbits eat bears." Bear: "Well that's absurd!" Rabbit: "Come into my home and I'll show you."

SCENE: Inside the rabbit's burrow. In one corner, there is a pile of fox bones. In another corner is a pile of wolf bones. On the other side of the room a huge lion is belching and picking his teeth.

MORAL: It doesn't matter what you choose for a thesis topic. It doesn't matter what you use for your data. It doesn't even matter if your topic makes sense. What matters is who you have for a thesis advisor.

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andsoitis
1 hour ago
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> The dragon in the room is the hidden qualifier for "undetectable by any means" is "that is currently known to humanity".

> That makes Carl Sagan's claim some what Balonish. Not sure why the smart Sagan fell for it.

The point is that if someone does claim that the dragon exists, they better be able to explain how they know it exists.

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RealityVoid
1 hour ago
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Yes. The beauty is that once you get the means you can adjust your view. But you can't go just "trust me bro, it's there, you can't ever verify it, but I know it's there." It might be there... But why do you believe it to be so?
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