Palantir Gets Millions of Dollars from New York City's Public Hospitals
108 points
1 hour ago
| 6 comments
| theintercept.com
| HN
marysminefnuf
1 hour ago
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It seems like the sole purpose of palantir is to give data to the government they wouldnt have access to without a warrant. So now everyone is just being warrantlessly surveiled??? The difference between now and a few years ago seems to be that companies are assisting law enforcement with even more advanced datacollection.
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coliveira
9 minutes ago
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They figured out that if the government does something it is opposed by a lot of people. But if a company says they'll collect information from every single customer in exchange for some worthless token, people will willingly provide all their information to said company. And those companies will either sell that info to governments or give it away with a little ask... So, the private economy has become the biggest contributor to the surveillance state.
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bebop
1 hour ago
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This is a very accurate take. There is a ton of collection that the government is explicitly not allowed to do. However, the ability to purchase this data is much less regulated. So the work around is, get contractors to do the data collection and then purchase that data.
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spwa4
49 seconds ago
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Purchase? You're misunderstanding how government consultancy works (which is what EU states use consultancy firms for)

A purchase works as follows: I like ice cream. I give you 5$. You give me an ice cream. I enjoy ice cream.

This is: government likes private health data. Hospital gives Palantir 5$, and your health data, repeat for 1 million patients. Palantir gives the health data to government. Your unemployment gets denied because the doctor said you could work.

Buying means exchanging money for goods and services. This is exchanging money AND goods AND services for nothing. It's highly illegal for private companies, if you try it you'll get sued by the tax office the second they see it and find all company accounts blocked "just in case", but of course if you are the government, directly or indirectly, it's just fine and peachy.

And you might think "this makes no sense". But you'd be advised to check out who appoints the head of the hospital (in fact just about the only break on this behavior in most EU countries is that the Vatican still has control over the board of a very surprising number of hospitals. Needless to say, the EU governments really hate that, but there tend to be deals around this. For example, in Belgium those hospitals get 50% less per resident. These sorts of deals were made, but they now mean that if the government wants the Vatican out of the board ... they have to increase spending on that hospital, often by a lot)

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colechristensen
19 minutes ago
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There needs to be a landmark supreme court case that decides that "Search and Seizure" protections include paying corporations for the sought after items.
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runarberg
17 minutes ago
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I keep thinking about the Cambridge Analytica scandal. Illegal data gathering was a big deal only 10 years ago. It seems like with businesses like Palantir that this behavior has been normalized to the point where what was unthinkably bad 10 years ago is just business as usual today.
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bigyabai
1 hour ago
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> So now everyone is just being warrantlessly surveiled???

It's been like that for a while; I don't think either side of America's political aisle has the heart to extricate themselves of such a privilege.

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hinata08
1 hour ago
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correct

PBS's _spying on the homefront_ piece from 2007 already described this very kind of omniscient private database.

The government itself isn't constitutionally allowed to build or run anything of the kind, but it can commission friends in the private sector to do one and query it with little to no oversight

I am definitely not uploading my face and ID on Discord or any site

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pylua
43 minutes ago
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How is it guaranteed to be the same accuracy of data that is not retrieved through a warrant ?
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pavel_lishin
41 minutes ago
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It just needs to be accurate-enough to eventually get a warrant.
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hinata08
38 minutes ago
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you don't need warrants to query these databases

They went from warrant, to FISA, to just write a request about a name, to more or less describe a vague group of ppl on whom you want the data

You should watch this show. It's available online and pretty informative.

If things weren't bad enough in 2007, things that have changed since then are most notably the cloud act that was created, Ring that started to "backup" your home CCTV in the cloud, then also Ring that enabled so called "Search Parties" and made a superball ad about it

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pavel_lishin
25 minutes ago
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Right, I understand they don't need a warrant for the databases. I'm saying that they use the databases to get enough data for a warrant that they wouldn't be able to get without the databases.
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einpoklum
55 minutes ago
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Well, you know it's that time again...

In Capitalist Russia, you are on surveillance by bought off government;

In Soviet America, government bought off by surveillence on you!

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noupdates
12 minutes ago
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Take the following crude entities:

- Stones

- Sticks

- Some rope

Takes awhile, but humans eventually make a murder weapon out of that and build armies.

Now take the benign elements of a crud stack:

- Database

- Server

- User system

It takes awhile, but eventually humans will make something (something not good) out of that.

Sticks and stones may hurt my bones, but databases will never hurt me

Right?

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rubberband
1 hour ago
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andy_ppp
53 minutes ago
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Are there any demos of Palantir out there, what sort of things does it do and has anyone tried making an OSS alternative - I don’t really understand why any government would trust them.
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_diyar
47 minutes ago
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AFAIK their business model is to send skilled engineers to client sites to be consultants and developers. Their selling point is not some product/code per-se (ie. they have a code base with existing analysis tools, but nothing crazy), but the fact that they jump into whatever situation and grind through problems.

The problem is that they also keep close ties to law-enforcement and (para-)military clients, and while they promise to keep your data safe, they would never inform you if they received a warrant from the government to share the data.

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worldsayshi
15 minutes ago
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If that's an accurate description it's very puzzling that European countries buy services from them.
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SilverElfin
49 seconds ago
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No one can explain what it is. They have some bullshit “ontology” thing they talk up on every investor call and bots spam about it on twitter and reddit. I think they are basically a software consultancy firm that the government can outsource all evil deeds to. Like warrantless surveillance
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estetlinus
32 minutes ago
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Michael Burry is extremely bearish on their business model and has written excellent pieces on why he is shorting Palantir.
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infinitewars
35 minutes ago
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The government IS Palantir at this point, at least J.D. Vance was hand-picked by Thiel.

Musk+Thiel is also in the mix with Golden Dome, the space weapons program that was always the mission. The inside "joke" is that Mars = Wars.

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crimsoneer
24 minutes ago
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You can just go sign up...?

https://www.palantir.com/developers/

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renewiltord
42 minutes ago
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What’s there to trust? You use a tool, it finds things you did that you didn’t bill for, you get paid. Where in this is trust required? The guy you’re billing will complain if the bills are inaccurate.
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SMAAART
37 minutes ago
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googaar
20 minutes ago
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Surprised that YCombinator threads are misunderstanding palantir, of all forums…
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wasmainiac
18 minutes ago
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Ok so explain then… this is a forum for discussion after all.
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