Error payloads in Zig
69 points
8 hours ago
| 8 comments
| srcreigh.ca
| HN
kristoff_it
2 minutes ago
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That is indeed more or less that commonly does when you need something more than just error codes.

As an example: https://github.com/kristoff-it/ziggy/blob/852053b09a5f8f5b79...

The part about mapping every error kind to different error code in Zig is debatable. It might be useful in some cases maybe (I don't have the confidence to fully exclude it), but at the very least in my experience I never ever needed that.

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latch
3 hours ago
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It wasn't clear from the examples, and the gist doesn't have a `deinit` method, so what happens if an error needs to own data?

> Here, sqlite.ErrorPayload.init saves 500 bytes of error message from sqlite

Who owns those 500 bytes and where are they being freed?

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srcreigh
3 hours ago
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It's just stored as a [256]u8 in the struct.

  // sqlite.zig
  pub const ErrorPayload = struct {
      message: [256]u8,
  
      pub fn init(db: *c.sqlite3) @This() {
          var self = std.mem.zeroes(@This());
          var fw = std.Io.Writer.fixed(self.message[0..]);
          _ = fw.writeAll(std.mem.span(c.sqlite3_errmsg(db))) catch |err| switch (err) {
              error.WriteFailed => return self, // full
          };
          return self;
      }
  };
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latch
1 hour ago
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And what pattern would you recommend if you needed to allocate?
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twhitmore
3 hours ago
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Does the Zig language not have useful exceptions/stacktraces that can be propagated out?

At a high level, all non-trivial programming is composition. And (see principle of encapsulation) the vast majority of errors shouldn't be recovered and just need to be propagated out.

Then, to be useful, errors need enough information to be diagnosed or investigated. It seems like this should have been a straight-forward requirement in the language design.

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dnautics
3 hours ago
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Zig has error unions on return types which are basically a special cased (rust enum aka sum type) of the return type with a special cased (c enum aka enumerated type), and stacktraces are only available in certain build modes.

A "diagnostics" pattern has emerged in the community to optionally request extra information about a failure. You can pass a pointer to the diagnostic (it can be on the stack) and get the extra info back. It's just a more explicit version of what would otherwise happen in a language with error payloads.

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Cloudef
2 hours ago
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Note that this "diagnostics" pattern is only meant for handling a error locally with potential extra information, or showing a more useful error to a end user of the software. For software bugs, crashes, or developer facing errors, you often don't have to do anything as zig has pretty good error traces by default.
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andyferris
2 hours ago
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> stacktraces are only available in certain build modes

> zig has pretty good error traces by default

These seem rather conditional. If I need to run release-fast in prod, say, do we loose these error traces (for bugs)?

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Cloudef
1 hour ago
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You can enable error traces for release-fast builds as well, without enabling full debug info. Though the quality of call stack of course vary depending on optimization level.
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messe
1 hour ago
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You do, to a significant extent. Though there is always the option of running ReleaseSafe.
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Zambyte
1 hour ago
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> stacktraces are only available in certain build modes.

Minor correction: stack traces are available on all build modes, but different build modes have different defaults. See: std.Options.allow_stack_tracing

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messe
1 hour ago
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> Does the Zig language not have useful exceptions/stacktraces that can be propagated out?

Yes, it has error return traces.

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umairnadeem123
1 hour ago
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the 'error payload' pattern feels like a good compromise between (a) enums and (b) full exceptions, esp when you want to preserve structured context. in zig specifically, do you find yourself standardizing payload shapes per module, or does it devolve into ad-hoc structs? would be interesting to see guidance on when to box/allocate vs keep payload trivially copyable.
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scuff3d
5 hours ago
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Continues to be a point of annoyance that Zig doesn't properly support payloads in errors.
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srcreigh
3 hours ago
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What more do you want than what's covered in the post?

To me, this post is proof zig doesn't need "proper support". You can already have extremely ergonomic error payloads with existing language features.

Earlier version of this post had some language feature ideas, but then I realized Zig already had all the capabilities, so I just removed that section.

For example, I used to think it'd be nice for functions to be a namespace, so I didn't have `myFunc` and `MyFuncDiagnostics`. But then I realized that the Diagnostics type doesn't need its own name; you can just put the type in the function signature, and use a function like `diagnostics.OfFunction(fn)` to extract the type from the function definition, so you can just write this:

  var diag: diagnostics.OfFunction(myFunc) = .{};
  const res = myFunc(foo, bar, &diag) catch |err| ...;
As another example, I used to write out the `error{OutOfMemory, ...}` type explicitly in addition to the tagged union payload, but then realized you can generate an error set from the union tags at comptime.

Do you want automatic inference of the error payload type? So zig creates a special tagged union error payloads type for you automatically? It seems complicated and maybe not a good idea. Do you really want your function to return an invisible 20 elements union on error? Do you want to call a someone else's function which returns an invisible 20 elements union on error? You know, maybe it's not a good idea.

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lenkite
1 hour ago
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> You can already have extremely ergonomic error payloads with existing language features.

I think you meant extremely unergonomic. If you take a dev poll, 8/10 developers would not find the solution ergonomic at all.

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dnautics
3 hours ago
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You can't really easily have useful user defined payloads in errors without implicit allocations.

Best way to do it is to pass a payload pointer into the function call. You can put it into an options struct with a default null pointer that noops if you prefer the ergonomics of a kwarg.

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smlavine
5 hours ago
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I thought so too at first, coming from a language (Hare) where they are very easy and common, but the Diagnostics pattern isn't that bad once you expect it. Various examples: https://ziggit.dev/search?q=Diagnostics
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loeg
5 hours ago
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Right. It's one thing to build the equivalent of Result into the language -- great. It's another to make it only support simple enum variants and not be extensible.
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ozgrakkurt
2 hours ago
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Why need error payloads when:

You can do validation at user interface and report actual nice errors.

And if something happens after that, you can save the stack trace into somewhere so the developer can see it. And you report unexpected error to user as that is exactly that

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grayhatter
3 hours ago
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Alternative title; instead of learning a new language, I adapted it into something I'm more familiar with.

Depending on your language preference; Zig has issues[citation needed], but 1) it's still version 0 and 2) and this is the important part: who cares?

I get you have a pattern and shape you like a lot. But there's less value in that existing shape, than there is in being mildly uncomfortable, and expanding your world view and trying things in ways you wouldn't normally do.

If you tried it and didn't like it, cool, go back to the language you're already used to. But for everyone else. I'd encourage you to try doing things "wrong" for a while and seeing if you can't learn something from forcing yourself to do so.

Something especially true for a language that HN likes to pretend is just a toy and can't compete with [ language you already decided won ]

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srcreigh
2 hours ago
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This is just a "complex real world app code" extension of the stdlib Diagnostics pattern.

  % rg Diagnostics zig/lib/std | wc -l
  165
The zig stdlib kind of has it easy because, for example, the json module can have one schema for error diagnostics. An app that stitches together a bunch of libraries and has a few internal modules is going to want some different Diagnostics schemas for different errors, and sharing those schemas and bubbling them up, so that's just what this is.
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Cloudef
2 hours ago
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Note the person behind your link isn't Andrew Kelley
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srcreigh
2 hours ago
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Oh thanks a bunch. That’s confusing. Removed that.
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deepriverfish
6 hours ago
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page is dead
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