So you want to build a tunnel
49 points
1 hour ago
| 8 comments
| practical.engineering
| HN
isubkhankulov
3 minutes ago
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Great content for the upcoming drone wars and the inevitable tunnels that will be built for troop and matériel movements
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ngvrnd
7 minutes ago
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Seymour Cray down in the tunnels, communing with the Machine Elves.
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pstuart
1 hour ago
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Brings to mind this woman's efforts -- very impressive indeed:

https://www.youtube.com/@engineerkala/

Edit: reading is hard -- I only skimmed and did not realize she was mentioned.

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advisedwang
31 minutes ago
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He explicitly mentions her in the video.
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pstuart
24 minutes ago
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My bad, I just skimmed. This is HN after all ;-)
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poszlem
1 hour ago
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When my wife was diagnosed with cancer and eventually went into remission, I didn’t really process what was happening at first. I was completely focused on getting her through it. The grief hit me later.

What helped me more than anything was going out into the garden and digging. I made sure to do it safely, since I know it can be risky, so I dug wide and with wooden supports, but there was something about just digging and digging down that let me work through all the darkness that had built up in my head. It gave those feelings somewhere to go.

This is unrelated, but I wonder if I did actually hit on something primal in myself.

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downut
45 minutes ago
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I figure if Seymore Cray thought digging was useful for mental hygiene it's probably ok:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobby_tunneling

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shagie
8 minutes ago
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https://web.archive.org/web/20080521163217/http://www.time.c...

> For Cray, the excavation project is more than a simple diversion. "I work when I'm at home," he recently told a visiting scientist. "I work for three hours, and then I get stumped, and I'm not making progress. So I quit, and I go and work in the tunnel. It takes me an hour or so to dig four inches and put in the 4-by-4s. Now, as you can see, I'm up in the Wisconsin woods, and there are elves in the woods. So when they see me leave, they come into my office and solve all the problems I'm having. Then I go back up and work some more."

> Rollwagen knows that Cray is only half kidding and that some of the designer's greatest inspirations come when he is digging. Says the chairman: "The real work happens when Seymour is in the tunnel."

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devmor
56 minutes ago
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I think the “primal urge” to dig is just really seeking the endorphins of manual labor. Digging like that is especially attractive because there’s little planning (unless you’re making a tunnel like the subject here) and no material investment but the earth beneath your feet.
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tasty_freeze
50 minutes ago
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One of my sisters had four boys (and no girls) and during summers they would drive her crazy with their boredom. When they were about ages 8-14 one summer she said: go in the back yard and see how big of a hole you can dig.

Wide-eyed they said: really? She said yes, dig as much as you want, but the only rule is it all gets filled in before school starts in the fall. 30 years later they say it was the best summer ever. Every day they were working on it and all of their friends would come by and help dig and plan what development would come next.

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rtkwe
47 minutes ago
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How deep did they get? Hope she kept an eye on it, unsupported holes quickly get dangerous, people underestimate how much weight is in the soil if the sides give out and just how dangerous that amount of weight moving can be.
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tasty_freeze
7 minutes ago
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It was more sprawling than deep. It was a series of trenches connecting "rooms". I know they also had "water features" at some points, but the water would soak into the ground pretty quickly then be a mess for a few days, so they didn't do that.

No collapses happened and everyone is still alive. :-)

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autoexec
27 minutes ago
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You can get the same endorphins with exercise, but you don't get to see the results of your work. It's so much more satisfying when you can clearly see your progress. Playing in sandboxes or digging holes in your yard is a game, but manual labor alone is often just work.
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cucumber3732842
55 minutes ago
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This article/video really rubs me the wrong way. These strawmen who are being torn down for the most part aren't building "tunnels". They're building glorified 8-10ft foundations and basements with dirt over the top instead of structures, 1970s hippie "underground homes" basically. They're calling them tunnels and bunkers for clicks and views.

To then take that naming at face value and pontificate about code and engineering is very much a two slights of hand not making a right situation. Furthermore, a civil engineer doing so is deep into "man won't understand what his salary depends on him not understanding" territory.

I know that the many HNers from the seismically active portions of the US will have no frame of reference for this but there are portions of the world where for hundreds, sometimes thousands, of years basements were built with less than scant engineering. The sort of "just barely below dirt" construction most of these amateurs are engaging in is on that order of complexity. Based on my observations via Youtube, these amateurs should be more scared of their own temporary construction rigging and material handling solutions than the forces their structures must hold back.

The primary practical engineering challenge and hazard these structures face is that there's nothing stopping someone from driving a point load of undefined size over the top and that has serious implications for roof strength.

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Hasz
5 minutes ago
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As they say, the rules are written in blood. I don't think we should be disqualifying projects because they are not Mponeng-scale or complexity.

I am not a civil engineer, but I did spend a bunch of time looking into building an underground range. Way more relaxed life safety reqs, smaller bore, etc. However, when you start reading, it is clear that much of the work is empirical, heavily localized and based on a great deal on the experience of the builder. I found very little in the way of solid theoretical modeling, but lots of measure, adjust, etc.

I think Grady does a reasonable job highlighting the dangers and risks.

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gostsamo
1 hour ago
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Completely offtopic, but my first reaction was this song.

Enjoy for those who would enjoy such things: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34CZjsEI1yU

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kleiba
1 hour ago
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Colin Furze ftw!
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shagie
10 minutes ago
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seymour_Cray

> Cray avoided publicity. There are a number of unusual tales about his life away from work, termed "Rollwagenisms", from then-CEO of Cray Research, John A. Rollwagen. Cray enjoyed skiing, windsurfing, tennis, and other sports. Another favorite pastime was digging a tunnel under his home; he attributed the secret of his success to "visits by elves" while he worked in the tunnel: "While I'm digging in the tunnel, the elves will often come to me with solutions to my problem."

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greggsy
1 hour ago
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Article really needs some sub headings or images - just anything to help situate where you are in case you navigate away from where you were reading.
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gwbas1c
1 hour ago
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The article is a transcript of the video at the top of the page.

Grady's videos are quite impressive to watch.

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MisterTea
1 hour ago
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There are people like myself who prefer to read at our own pace, even skim the article and look at pictures. Video sucks.
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hparadiz
1 hour ago
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Okay but that's not what this is. It's a YouTube channel. A very well known one in fact.
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dilawar
58 minutes ago
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I prefer text too but this channel is just amazing..
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