CERN rebuilt the original browser from 1989
86 points
3 hours ago
| 7 comments
| worldwideweb.cern.ch
| HN
gerdesj
40 minutes ago
[-]
In 1992ish I worked at RNEC Manadon (UK, Devon). I was asked by my boss to investigate this new www thing.

I telnetted to the nearest VAX from my Win 3.1 PC. I then telnetted to the X.25 PAD and used that to go via the US to Switzerland and CERN. It looked just like gopher and WAIS to me and that's how I reported back - "it looks the same as gopher".

When Tim BL invented www, html and that, browsers were telnet and graphics was a nonsense.

reply
jcims
6 minutes ago
[-]
I worked at an EDI company in the mid 90s. X.25 was the wild west. We had a router set up on it that would happily stand up a ppp session to anyone that knew the node name. No password, right on the core network lol.
reply
hackingonempty
21 minutes ago
[-]
The experience was very different on a NeXT computer.

WAIS was modeled after the built in DigitalLibrarian software. You would select a site in the upper pane, and enter a search term in the box in the middle, and a list of documents would come back in the bottom pane that you could double click and open. Very search engine like.

Gopher was structured and I think Gemini today still sticks with the format. You load a site and the hierarchy of links appeared in a column browser up top and selected documents appeared in the bottom pane.

WWW didn't seem like much in comparison because they were freeform documents without app level navigation support and there wasn't support for images or much formatting and people had not learned to make web pages so it was really hard to see the future of what it would grow to become.

I'm not known for picking winners :-(

reply
fsloth
2 hours ago
[-]
Fun fact: Erwise[0] was the first _graphical_ browser developed by a group of students in Helsinki University of Technology with Sir Berners Lee. Sadly there was no funding in Finland available at the time and they had to abandon the project and most of the group ended up working at Tekla, contributing to a bunch of cool AEC CAD technology (Tekla is now a Trimble subsidiary).

[0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erwise

reply
hackingonempty
27 minutes ago
[-]
It has been about 16 years since I fired up my old NeXTStation Color where I had a copy of 1.0 or a late beta.

The last time I tried about the only site that worked was useit.com, former home of Nielsen Norman UX experts ;-)

reply
tylerdane
3 hours ago
[-]
Direct link to the browser: https://worldwideweb.cern.ch/browser/
reply
Kim_Bruning
2 hours ago
[-]
Did you notice you can click anywhere in the text and edit it?

Something was lost along the way.

(Nowadays you need a separate wiki engine on a site to be able to do that)

reply
dadoum
43 minutes ago
[-]
F12, Console, type

    document.designMode = 'on'
reply
dadoum
22 minutes ago
[-]
(it is slightly different though, as links cannot be followed)
reply
wesammikhail
25 minutes ago
[-]
I had no idea. You just blew my mind
reply
krapp
1 hour ago
[-]
Do we know that they didn't have some backend code handing the editing?

I don't think a web where every page is globally editable by default would be a good idea, but I can't imagine at all how it would work without a backend, unless all of the changes are just local. But that seems pointless.

reply
shakna
1 hour ago
[-]
Being able to change stylesheets, disable or enhance various JavaScript scripts, add notes and annotations, and other things, is exactly the idea of a user agent.

The user makes a request, and then does whatever they like with the answer. Not just whatever is sensible, but whatever they want to do.

If that concept somehow became accepted again... I think the accessible web might well become a solved problem, rather than an endless slog.

reply
idiotsecant
39 minutes ago
[-]
In what way is that not currently possible? All browsers I know of you can edit whatever you want in any page you download
reply
zabzonk
1 hour ago
[-]
> But that seems pointless.

Making notes for your own consumption?

reply
Kim_Bruning
1 hour ago
[-]
HTTP has PUT and DELETE for a reason ;-)
reply
actionfromafar
1 hour ago
[-]
Upload the file when you are done, perhaps?
reply
karlgkk
1 hour ago
[-]
> (Nowadays you need a separate wiki engine on a site to be able to do that)

No you don’t. These browser simply PUTs the request and your web server simply edits the document. Versioning is optional, of course.

reply
lysace
2 hours ago
[-]
It's a javascript-based imitation, much like all of those js-based imitations of various Windows versions.

The original source code isn't really involved, which is a shame, since it is actually available.

IMHO this should have been (something along the lines of) GNUstep + TimBL's original code (mirror: https://github.com/cynthia/WorldWideWeb) + Emscripten + getting Emscripten to work with ObjC. Now, that would have been cool.

This is the most commented HN posting on this from that time (2019):

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19249373

reply
nine_k
2 hours ago
[-]
A WASM emulator of 68040 and NeXT, the original OS and compiler, then run WWW on top of that.

The performance would likely be comparable %)

reply
actionfromafar
1 hour ago
[-]
The performance would likely be much better. :-)
reply
lysace
1 hour ago
[-]
An example from a year later; 1990:

https://copy.sh/v86/?profile=windows30

reply
spijdar
1 hour ago
[-]
Every version of NeXT is actually catalogued and can be run in the browser at: https://infinitemac.org/

I'm pretty sure the CERN WorldWideWeb application is also included in the "bonus software" HDD, but I'm on my phone right now and can't confirm. :-)

reply
krackers
1 hour ago
[-]
You can already run nextstep in browser, see https://aresluna.org/frame-of-preference/ (section "Back to 1992")
reply
java-man
2 hours ago
[-]
All the links should point to the 1989 internet instead of "Not Found"

:-)

reply
jmclnx
2 hours ago
[-]
Interesting, for some reason I thought lynx was the first browser. I thought I read that a while ago.

But it makes sense it is a GUI browser since it was developed on a NeXT

reply
wahern
2 hours ago
[-]
WorldWideWeb didn't originally support inline images, and while using a graphical toolkit rendered pages more like Lynx, albeit with the ability to vary fonts. Lynx wasn't the first WWW browser, but came along shortly after, a year or so after WorldWideWeb, and is the oldest browser still maintained. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_web_browser#Ear...

I'm having trouble pinning down when WorldWideWeb got inline image support, but based on https://www.w3.org/History/1991-WWW-NeXT/Implementation/Feat... I'm guessing sometime between 1992 and 1994, when there are screenshots with inline images, so maybe after Lynx was published.

reply
WillAdams
2 hours ago
[-]
reply
dunham
1 hour ago
[-]
It's been a very long time, but my recollection was the Mosaic did images first, and it was non-standard. (The beginning of the end.) I might be thinking of some other feature though.

I was also disappointed that the editing went away after the first browser. (There was "Amaya" which had editing, but it was a research thing and not a commonly used browser.)

reply