Buckle Up for Bumpier Skies
69 points
9 hours ago
| 9 comments
| newyorker.com
| HN
kuhaku22
4 hours ago
[-]
I liked the article for its brief foray into aviation history, something I wasn't too familiar with myself past the standard Wright Brothers factoids, and for making me appreciate the smooth rides I've luckily had, especially compared to that poor Singapore Airlines flight. The author is also good at conveying the visual feelings associated with turbulence despite only using words. Though I do feel more photographs wouldn't have hurt: like of the glider, NCAR's buildings, the Boeing hangar, visualizations of Cornman's software, and the turbulence simulator.

The article is a good reminder why politics matter and why we can't keep on seeing climate change as some far-off issue that future generations will just bear the brunt of.

> and there was talk of dismantling NCAR altogether. Russell Vought, the director of the White House Office of Management and Budget, had called the research center “one of the largest sources of climate alarmism in the country.”

reply
littlexsparkee
14 minutes ago
[-]
WSJ's article on fume events might interest you - I understand they're rare but the fact you can't really do anything to protect yourself changed my perspective https://www.wsj.com/business/airlines/air-travel-toxic-fumes... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fume_event
reply
birdsongs
3 hours ago
[-]
Agree. The shocking part of the history for me was those few planes in the 60's that were literally torn apart by turbulence. I never knew that. I looked it up, BOAC Flight 911: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BOAC_Flight_911

Also the fact that the turbulence models for design stressors, for planes manufactured today, were from those original measurements in the 60's. Science needs to stay at the forefront here with the earth changing, I only hope that the political situation improves to allow that to remain a priority.

I love flying for the engineering aspect, when I manage to turn off my scared animal-brain. It's absolutely mind blowing the technology and iterative designs these machines have gone through.

reply
btilly
17 minutes ago
[-]
I have been on a rough flight from Denver to Orange County, CA. Based on that flight, it does not shock me that a plane could be torn apart by turbulence. Instead I'm impressed that so few have been torn apart.

Our technology regularly does ridiculously insane things, and achieves jaw-dropping reliability. So much so, that everyone just expects it to work. And we no longer recognize how amazing it truly is.

reply
metalman
2 hours ago
[-]
somewhere, are videos of TTD testing of wings on passenger aircraft, and other video of the two guys doing final assembly of the wing fasteners on an airbus, nasa has nothing on them. and even humble cessena trainers, where "nobody has pulled the wings off one yet" all that, and there are still many many ways for things to go horribly wrong...iceing, mega down drafts, mega UP drafts, that just grab an aircraft and take it on a 5000'+ min elevator ride, or side drafts, put you up, strait up on one wing, ask me how I know. more, but for sure what we get next is just that, more weather
reply
leetrout
54 minutes ago
[-]
I never had full 90 degrees up on one wing but I had 40-60 degrees which was enough for me to know I didn't like it.

Winds aloft were 30-40kts and there is a pass in the mountains east of Asheville NC at Chimney Rock we would fly over regularly. On that day I caught what I assume was mountain rotor and it was like being on a mechanical bull.

reply
alpineman
2 hours ago
[-]
Would be karma for all the unnecessary flights we have taken as a species.

In particular anyone who does 'mileage runs' and emits huge amounts of CO2 just so they have the 'privilege' to sit in a slightly nicer chair in a dull airport lounge.

reply
gruez
1 hour ago
[-]
>In particular anyone who does 'mileage runs' and emits huge amounts of CO2 just so they have the 'privilege' to sit in a slightly nicer chair in a dull airport lounge.

I doubt anyone is doing this? At best they're grinding out flights so they can get free first/business class seats later.

reply
Archonical
58 minutes ago
[-]
People do this to meet minimum requirements for mileage tiers, e.g. I know someone who was close to Diamond status on Delta and went to Miami and back without leaving the airport area just for the miles.
reply
_fw
7 hours ago
[-]
The WebGL animation at the top is really cool. It’s probably smaller than a video too, and much sharper
reply
sarreph
7 hours ago
[-]
When I saw this comment before loading the article, I thought “this is probably the New Yorker”. I think they produce the best visuals across all the online publications.
reply
fishcrackers
6 hours ago
[-]
reply
hooch
3 hours ago
[-]
reply
amelius
4 hours ago
[-]
I wonder how they modeled the clouds and the aerodynamics near the tips of the wings.
reply
antonvs
3 hours ago
[-]
What makes you think it's WebGL? It looks like an mp4 to me, at least I was able to download the mp4. It's sharp because it's high resolution.

But maybe they're serving different content depending on the client.

reply
brightbeige
1 hour ago
[-]
I’m a subscriber with the mobile app and the “video” is a still image for me.
reply
fisian
3 hours ago
[-]
For the part which talks about turbulence damping, this page illustrates how this looks like on a smaller plane: https://turbulence-solutions.aero/technology/

(Not affiliated, just saw their demo once.)

reply
amelius
2 hours ago
[-]
Airplane travel is becoming incompatible with humans ...

Looks like the singularity is coming just in time.

reply
ur-whale
7 hours ago
[-]
reply
wartywhoa23
1 hour ago
[-]
Onion news would put that better: "The fucking goddamn shit called air that had been working since the first heavier-than-your-ass airplane just stopped working yesterday, american scientists are flabbergasted, and you douchebags must be sure as heck too!"
reply
nineteen999
8 hours ago
[-]
> Can today’s planes still keep us safe?

Probably not if the turbines aren't spinning, no.

reply
Onavo
6 hours ago
[-]
Presumably the article is more referring to turbulence at a macro scale. If the air is so turbulent that the compressor blades stall because of it, well, we have bigger problems.
reply
nineteen999
3 hours ago
[-]
I was referring to the really obvious animation (or lack of) at the top of the page.

But yeah once again it seemed to go over the heads of the oblivious around here...

reply
jsrozner
5 hours ago
[-]
Idk but the analogies in the piece strike as AI generated. I don't think the new yorker is using AI to write pieces, so maybe the author has just been ingesting too much slop
reply
A_D_E_P_T
5 hours ago
[-]
If it weren't the New Yorker, I'd swear up and down that Claude wrote this:

> Turbulence is rarely that simple. It’s too scattered, too mercurial, too easily triggered by weather patterns that trigger other patterns in an endless cascade. “It’s not just one thing that’s going on,” Bob Sharman, an atmospheric scientist at NCAR, told me. “It’s not just atmospheric convection. It’s not just wind flowing over mountains. It’s everything going on all the time and interacting.”

> “It’s not a piece of farm equipment,” Larson said. “It’s a life-support system. At thirty-five thousand feet, you can’t pull over.”

The funny thing is that the passages that feel the most "AI-generated" come in quotes, when the author is quoting others. It could be that the author was communicating with those experts via email, and they used AI to generate their responses.

Otherwise, I think that AI language patters are diffusing into common use. Being so aware of them is a curse...

reply
notarobot123
4 hours ago
[-]
It isn't only LLMs that use rhetorical constructs like these, humans use them too.
reply
wongarsu
3 hours ago
[-]
Funnily enough "It isn't only X, Y too" doesn't trigger my AI-sense nearly as much as "It's not just X, it's Y". Similarly in the above quote the "It's not just U. It's not just V. It's not just X, it's Y" doesn't seem AI generated to me.
reply
CGMthrowaway
14 minutes ago
[-]
"It isn't only X, Y too" triggers my NPR/NY media/cathedral sense. Because it's folksy affectation but by a trained writer who knows to avoid the weak words like "just."
reply
kuhaku22
4 hours ago
[-]
Not to mention these patterns didn't come out of thin air. The LLMs are statistically regurgitating language from its training set, which researchers probably tuned more towards journalistic sources like the one we're reading.
reply
CGMthrowaway
12 minutes ago
[-]
You're right of course. And it's cliche now, thanks to LLMs, so outlets like the New Yorker who pride themselves on good or interesting writing (which includes avoiding cliches) ought to find alternative rhetorical structuring.
reply
birdsongs
3 hours ago
[-]
Not arguing, it's just interesting I read the opposite, it felt human to me, and I usually have a good spidey sense here. Maybe it's a combo of handwritten and LLM polishing? Or just a case of a good writer, whose typical output was the training input for most of these models. Good writing, novels and articles and short stories, were the high value training sets.

"For a moment, the plane quivered around them like a greyhound straining on a leash." - I don't think a LLM would write this.

But hell, maybe I'm just being naive. I think we're past the point of ambiguity, we just can't know anymore. Which feels poignant to me.

reply
forgetfreeman
4 hours ago
[-]
You're reversing causality here. LLMs train on massive bodies of human-generated content. Constructs like the ones mentioned are an entirely unremarkable staple of long-form text content produced for audiences who are accustomed to consuming long-form text content.
reply
mapt
1 hour ago
[-]
The formula they have generalized their responses to in basic explainer mode is pretty distinctive for a lot of us who are otherwise used to reading long-form written pieces.
reply
FreakLegion
4 hours ago
[-]
People point to the basic structure of "It's not X, it's Y" as the hallmark of AI, but I find it's more the incongruity between X and Y, especially when figures of speech (invariably strained) are involved[1]. That first quote reads like a real interaction that's been tightened up for print, but the second, the 'farm equipment' <> 'life-support system', does smell like AI, even though the article implies it's from an in-person conversation.

1. These are all from a single 850-word op-ed I saw the other day: "Presidents do not usually lose power because of a single speech. They lose power when a speech reveals something structural." "But the most important part of the speech was not the applause lines. It was the compression." "Markets can rise. But voters do not live inside charts. They live inside grocery stores and mortgage payments." "The issue is not whether a statistic was stretched. The issue is that the presidency becomes reactive instead of agenda-setting." "That friction is not theoretical — it is baked into the constitutional design." "Trump’s address was not a pivot to persuasion — it was a doubling down on confrontation as strategy." "They are not just another campaign cycle. They are leverage."

reply
antonvs
2 hours ago
[-]
I noticed that slop-ed in The Hill. Weapons-grade slop. It's impressive in a horrifying short of way.
reply
troyjfarrell
4 hours ago
[-]
Have you see AI repeat itself inside a paragraph? This looks more like something an editor missed.

Fourth paragraph, sixth sentence: "Still, at best, only two-thirds of the occupants were buckled up after seventy seconds."

Fourth paragraph, final sentence: "Fully a third of the occupants were still out of their seats after seventy seconds."

reply
singleshot_
43 minutes ago
[-]
Not a repeat; an error. How many people were in their seats, unbuckled?
reply
whywhywhywhy
4 hours ago
[-]
Yeah if you had AI rewrite things a few times and copy and paste paragraphs from multiple drafts together this is definitely something that could happen.
reply