Willingness to look stupid
325 points
3 days ago
| 47 comments
| sharif.io
| HN
21asdffdsa12
2 hours ago
[-]
This posts observation have interesting side-effects. Measurements, metrics and surveillance kill creative work. And hierarchies and the fear of embarrassment do too. So, the more you try to force "excellence" into existence via external pressures and resource tracking, the more it disappears.

Which leaves as observation, you can only do truly creative work - in a high trust society, where people trust you with the resources and leave you alone, after a initial proof of ability.

Or in a truly low-trust society, where you are part the kleptocrat chieftain system and you just use your take to do this kind of work. The classic MBA process will totally destroy any scientific or creative institution.

reply
flats
32 minutes ago
[-]
Interesting—this feels like a very “engineering manager” sort of observation that isn’t actually all that generalizable.

My observation is that people share incredibly creative work all the time in all different sorts of societies. Humans are inherently creative beings, and we almost always find a way. Certainly a person needs _some_ resources (time, most importantly) in order to work creatively, but confidence in one’s abilities can and does regularly get the better of fear (e.g. that which can emerge from observation, measurement, hierarchies, etc.).

I can think of countless artists—writers, musicians, visual artists—who have succeeded in both doing & sharing “truly creative work” (however that’s defined) in the face of “success” & all of its concomitant challenges.

reply
gdorsi
1 hour ago
[-]
I see this post as something motivational around public writing or public speaking.

It's true that the more you are afraid of expressing yourself, the worse your "performance" is going to be.

On general work level it's different.

There the trust needs to be balanced.

People should feel free to express themselves, but also that they need to meet some certain standards of quality at work.

Otherwise we may tend to relax too much and become sloppy in certain areas.

reply
miroljub
1 hour ago
[-]
Nicely put. That's why most of the innovation over the centuries came from the high trust style societies.

With the decline of trust, I fear we as a civilization are going into a long period of stagnation or even regression. Unfortunately, at this point there's no socially acceptable way to reverse the trend of trust destruction.

reply
ludicrousdispla
1 hour ago
[-]
I agree with your main points, but as I have both a BFA and an MBA I want to point out that the MBA focused very much on creating high-trust work environnments.

I think there must be a better label for the process that is destroying scientific and creative institutions.

reply
matt3210
42 minutes ago
[-]
Leadership requires hourly updates all the way down to me so I barely get anything done
reply
timr
53 minutes ago
[-]
> Which leaves as observation, you can only do truly creative work - in a high trust society, where people trust you with the resources and leave you alone, after a initial proof of ability.

I don’t know about “high trust”, but I can say with confidence that the “make more mistakes” thesis misses a critical point: evolutionary winnowing isn’t so great if you’re one of the thousands of “adjacent” organisms that didn’t survive. Which, statistically, you will be. And the people who are trusted with resources and squander them without results will be less trusted in the future [1].

Point being, mistakes always have a cost, and while it can be smart to try to minimize that cost in certain scenarios (amateur painting), it can be a terrible idea in other contexts (open-heart surgery). Pick your optimization algorithm wisely.

What you’re characterizing as “low trust” is, in most cases, a system that isn’t trying to optimize for creativity, and that’s fine. You don’t want your bank to be “creative” with accounting, for example.

[1] Sort of. Unfortunately, humans gonna monkey, and the high-status monkeys get a lot of unfair credit for past successes, to the point of completely disregarding the true quality of their current work. So you see people who have lost literally billions of dollars in comically incompetent entrepreneurial disasters, only to be able to run out a year later and raise hundreds of millions more for a random idea.

reply
themafia
1 hour ago
[-]
I've never understood the "high-strust/low-trust" social dichotomy. I've never processed "society" as a single entity, but a large system with many independent aspects, and my levels of trust vary wildly across them and over time.

I'd also offer that there's no difference between "truly creative work" and "truly creative and profitable work" but we often see the two as separate because we only have convenient access to one or the other.

reply
kjksf
56 minutes ago
[-]
It's not that complicated: statistics matter.

5% of people create 90% of the crime. Double 5% to 10% and you double the crime. Make it 50% and and you 10x the crime.

You still have 50% of non-criminals but society with 50% criminals has way more crime than society with 5% criminals.

You might say high-crime society is much worse than low-crime society even though they both have individuals that are criminals and non-criminals.

Replace "crime" with "trust" and you understand high-trust vs. low-trust society. They both have individuals with various levels of trust, but emergent behavior driven by statistics creates a very different society.

> there's no difference between "truly creative work" and "truly creative and profitable work"

To state the obvious, the difference is "profit".

Also I don't see you're bringing the "true scottsman" judgement here. What's the difference between "creative" and "truly creative" work. Who gets to decide what is "truly creative" vs. merely "creative".

reply
AIorNot
1 hour ago
[-]
This comment is spot on
reply
alwa
4 hours ago
[-]
If you haven’t had the pleasure of Los Angeles public-access television’s Let’s Paint TV…

https://www.letspainttv.com/

Or, to save your eyes, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let's_Paint_TV

For more than 20 years, Mr. Let’s Paint TV (artist John Kilduff) has encouraged viewers to “EMBRACE FAILARE”—charitably put, to pass through the valley of incompetence as it’s the only path to the slopes of mastery. Just do the thing.

I couldn’t agree more with that impulse and TFA’s: the common trait that cuts across all the most impressive people I know—from artists to businesspeople to scientists to engineers to even leaders-of-organizations—is a cheerful unselfconsciousness, a humility, a willful simplicity—a willingness to put it out there while it’s raw and stupid and unformed, and hone it through practice with the people around them.

A taste:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PvbL_5rH1QQ

reply
moss_dog
3 hours ago
[-]
Fantastic, thanks for sharing! I hadn't heard of this before. Very entertaining video!
reply
katzenversteher
3 hours ago
[-]
That's super trippy but I like it.
reply
byproxy
4 hours ago
[-]
goddam, that's beautiful. thanks for sharing!
reply
morbusfonticuli
1 hour ago
[-]
Well, now I went down that rabbit hole. Thanks, I guess :-)
reply
strken
4 hours ago
[-]
> There might be a good reason why smart people want to avoid looking stupid ... The only plausible explanation is that our egos are fragile

I disagree with this, at least in how it regards ego as pointless.

Humans are tuned to win a delicate social competition by becoming popular and therefore having a bunch of kids with other popular (and therefore reproductively successful) people. The most plausible explanation is that our ancestors have been through millions of years of evolutionary selection to try to become the most popular in a social group by taking risks, but then cease all risk-taking and guard their position after they get there.

Ego is the mechanism by which this happens, but it's there for a reason. Social status is really, really important - if you don't buy the evolutionary reasons, it's still important for basic human connection. We haven't always lived in societies which are so open to failure, experimentation, or looking stupid.

reply
ahf8Aithaex7Nai
3 hours ago
[-]
Somehow, it always triggers my skepticism when supposedly sociobiological or evolutionary anthropological or evolutionary psychological arguments are brought up. My suspicion is that it is far too easy to simply pack in the story you want to have in there. I can think of dozens of objections to your description. For example, in small groups, the social game in terms of status may not be that complex, and the choice for pairings may be very limited.

I'll leave it at that because I don't want to write a novel. But when I look at your description, I don't see any plausibility at all. I only see projections. Like in The Flintstones or in old movies about Stone Age people, who have strangely short haircuts and go hunting the way people go to work today. What I mean is: the social dynamics you're assuming here may be primarily shaped by your experiences in the present and are far from as universal as you believe.

reply
strken
55 minutes ago
[-]
Fair enough, but if you remove the evo psych explanation you're still left with "people don't want to look stupid in front of their peers because it might have consequences". This seems plausible to me regardless.
reply
WalterBright
1 hour ago
[-]
I've never encountered a person who was attracted to a stupid person.

BTW, the Flintstones is just The Honeymooners without Jackie Gleason. One could also argue that Family Guy and The Simpsons are also reboots of The Honeymooners.

> who have strangely short haircuts and go hunting the way people go to work today

"They're the modern stone age family" are the words in the Flintstones' theme song.

reply
pbhjpbhj
1 hour ago
[-]
Never heard of "bimbos"/"himbos"?
reply
casualscience
2 hours ago
[-]
Even in small groups, being respected and considered valuable is important? I'm not sure what you mean here.

I take your point, and I too get triggered when people invoke mate selection and dopamine. I could be with you in being skeptical about that specific angle... but absolutely if you look at lawless or less institutionalized cultures, there is a trend towards appearing strong/tough and hiding any weaknesses

reply
rapnie
3 hours ago
[-]
Can we ascribe it all to ego, I wonder, or is it just one of several mechanics at play, albeit an important one. A Dutch saying is that there's a lid for every pot ("op elk potje past een dekseltje") i.e. that the most unlikely people still manage to find a partner and form a family. That very clumsy person who stutters, and is perceived by an ego-driven person as "a loser" still finds someone who thinks they are adorable and attractive.
reply
smackeyacky
3 hours ago
[-]
Maybe not adorable and attractive, but just enough to settle for.
reply
mettamage
3 hours ago
[-]
At work I dare to look stupid and in my friend group too. It hasn’t always led to a good outcome since people simply believe you’re actually stupid and the problem with that is that they don’t take you seriously enough. Now, you can say: their loss. But man, I need to eat. With friends, sure. At work? After years of looking stupid, I had enough of it.

Also finding a partner is mostly about being silly with each other. So looking a bit stupid is a plus there and had no issues about it on that front

reply
WalterBright
1 hour ago
[-]
Being silly is not being stupid. Being stupid is investing in lottery tickets, driving drunk, etc.
reply
tokioyoyo
3 hours ago
[-]
Not sure if this is the right place to respond, but I’ve only seen this play in situations where people visibly want to look better than others, because they feel insecure about their status.

Frankly, I have no idea how to explain it in words, but when you’re in a setting where everyone knows they’re good at their own thing, but also know the others are also exceptional at their thing, this game goes away. Like it actually becomes the opposite. Everyone calls themselves stupid, become more cordial, and things get fun. Trying to not to look stupid signals negative status, or whatever you call it.

It’s very funny to write this out, because I’ve never thought about it on purpose. Everything has just felt natural at the time of the event.

reply
AznHisoka
1 hour ago
[-]
>> Social status is really, really important - if you don't buy the evolutionary reasons, it's still important for basic human connection.

You dont want to do dumb things that might get you in jail and have rveryone shun you.

But should u be so afraid of brusing your ego that you shy away from: starting a business (if u have the financial means), asking someone out, publishing something in public, etc

Sometimes evolution overshoots, esp when our environment changes

reply
paganel
1 hour ago
[-]
I agree with the popular thing, but only up to a point, for a certain type of people, or from a certain age on (for me this latter case holds true), competing against other people just isn't a valid concern anymore, the societal "recognition" stops being a thing.

In my case, and I suppose this holds true for others, too, the "fiercest" competition is with one's inner-self or, at the very most, with past/dead/way-out-of-line-of-sight "competitors" that have nothing to do with current society and its recognition. I know that this "competing against one-self" sounds trite, but, again, this is how things are for some of us.

reply
9rx
3 hours ago
[-]
The actual most plausible explanation becomes clear when you rearrange the words into the right order: "There might be a good reason why people who want to avoid looking stupid are smart ..." Forcing oneself to become smart is the only escape from looking stupid.
reply
Jensson
3 hours ago
[-]
"The people I think are smart are those that try to look smart", that is the most plausible. There are probably many smart people who aren't afraid of looking stupid that you think are stupid for that reason.

Personally I dislike people who never say stupid things, because they are focusing too much on appearances and too little on trying to figure things out.

reply
polywanna
3 hours ago
[-]
This is such a wildly incel-like reply. I disagree 100%. This social competition you speak of is something insecure people have manufactured. It exists only for the people who think it exists. People don’t want to look stupid because they usually have a need for intellectual validation developed in pre teen years. My god free yourself from this false belief that everything is a social competition, you don’t need to stress yourself out.
reply
ryanjshaw
2 hours ago
[-]
> It exists only for the people who think it exists

Right. Which means it does exist. And the point of the article is to bring about self awareness of the phenomenon so that people can improve.

I think you have the same goal with your comment, but your style of communication needs work.

Ironically, I would argue you might benefit from caring a little about how others perceive you.

reply
krelian
3 hours ago
[-]
Have you thought about why they developed a need for intellectual validation?
reply
abcde666777
3 hours ago
[-]
I think you're a little quick to hand wave the phenomenon away, as if it's purely a social construct that people care about how they appear to others.
reply
bravura
3 hours ago
[-]
You and GGP both wrong in ironic ways.

GGP says don't care about X because it's a social phenomenon, but frequently this position is a form of social identification.

You say: X might deeper than social, implying that social phenomena are not important. Thus agreeing with GP.

[edit: my position is pragmatic: If there's a broad or important phenomenon, your position on it should be individualized to the value of the phenomenon itself, not based upon some theory-of-origin category assignment.]

reply
danpalmer
4 hours ago
[-]
> Some of the best research ... has come from surprisingly young people. ... They're not afraid of looking stupid.

Young people aren't doing things without worrying about looking stupid, they just don't know that they look stupid. I say that as a former young person who was way more naive than I thought I was at the time. This is good and bad.

Also I think this point ignores that as people grow in their careers they often become more highly leveraged. I've moved from writing code to coaching others who write code. It is very normal for much of the "important" stuff to be done by relatively young people, but this understates the influence from more experienced people.

reply
eucyclos
2 hours ago
[-]
There's also the fact that there's a lot less social pressure for young people not to look stupid. If you're the senior subject matter expert and get a question you can't answer, people still expect you to make an educated guess. The junior guy they expect to ask someone.
reply
iamflimflam1
1 hour ago
[-]
The sign of true subject matter expert is someone who has the confidence to say when they don’t know the answer.
reply
Tazerenix
2 hours ago
[-]
Willingness to look stupid and intellectual self-confidence are two sides of the same coin.

If you can find internal (rather than external) reasons to trust/believe in your own intelligence and capabilities, it makes it easier to be willing to look foolish. Also, a lack of knowledge/ability in a new area (or even a familiar area) is not a sign of a lack of capability. There's a difference between being a novice and being an idiot. So long as your source of intellectual self-confidence is strong enough (say, you have made great intellectual achievements in some other area of your life unrelated to the thing you're struggling with right now) its irrelevant if other people think you the fool: they're simply mistaken, and that's no skin off your back.

reply
eucyclos
2 hours ago
[-]
Someone (supposedly) published da Vinci's to do list a while back, and from the snippets I read he seemed to spend most of his time talking to experts about subjects he didn't know much about. Pretty telling if true.
reply
ChrisMarshallNY
37 minutes ago
[-]
> Just this: are you willing to look stupid today? That’s it. That’s all there is to it.

That’s always been one of my strengths. I used to ask questions in classes, that would have the teacher look at me, like I was a dunce, and the rest of the students in stitches. It has always been important for me to completely understand whatever I’m learning. I can’t deal with “God said it, I believe it, and that settles it.” I have to really know why; not just what.

By the end of the class, the other students would be asking me for help, and no one was laughing at me. I tended to get good grades.

The worst teacher that I ever had, was a genius mathematician, who shut me down, when I did that. It was the only incomplete that I ever had. The best teachers would wince, but treat the question as a serious one.

One of the really nice things about using an LLM, is not having to deal with sneering.

reply
onion2k
3 hours ago
[-]
It's easy to look stupid with no one around (editing your own writing), or with someone you trust deeply (choosing what to put on a cake with a friend), or if you're a jellyfish apparently. Those are spaces with people, or jellyfish, who you trust.

What's much, much harder is being willing to look stupid in front of people who have an interest in proving your competence (e.g. a manager or a customer) or who would be willing to hold it against you in the future (competitors, and jellyfish probably).

Being OK with taking a personal knock by asking a question that might set you back but that moves everyone else forward is a superpower. If you can build enough resilience to be the person in the room who asks the question everyone else is probably wondering about, even if it makes you look bad, eventually leads to becoming a useful person to have around. That should always be the goal.

reply
socalgal2
2 hours ago
[-]
I'm not sure this is the same thing but I waffle between wanting to not look stupid and also not wanting others to think I'm not trying hard enough.

Let's say there is something I need to do at work. I could read docs in the company internal site. I could read the code. Maybe the thing I need to do is figure out why a test is failing. It's possible it's failing because there's a bug in the code. It's possible it's failing because there is a bug in the test. It's possible it's failing because there's a bug in the CI/CQ. It's possible it's failing because some other dependency changed something.

The question is, when do I keep digging on my own vs ask for guidance and how much guidance? I never have a good feeling for that. I kind of wish the guidance was offered or encouraged as "I know you're not familiar with this stuff so let me walk you through this issue and then hopefully you can do it on your own the next time". But, I never know. I feel compelled to try to work it out on my own. Some of that is ego, like I can't do it on my own I must not be as good as others on my team. But I have no idea how much they asked vs figured out.

A few times when I do get guidance it's not enough. the person giving it isn't aware of all the hidden knowledge that's helping them figure out the issue and therefore doesn't pass it on.

reply
bob1029
1 hour ago
[-]
> The overwhelming majority of mutations end up being harmful or neutral. An exceedingly small fraction are beneficial.

Neutral drift is perhaps the most important part of evolution. It's how you preserve diversity over time and avoid getting stuck in holes in the fitness landscape.

If we only ever made steps that improved performance we'd inevitably see premature convergence. The neutral drift can overpower progress toward a global minimum, but it's a lot better to be going in circles than to not be moving at all. Diversity collapse is the worst thing that can happen to an evolutionary algorithm. You must reject superior solutions with some probability in order to make it to the next step. You can always change your selection pressure. You can't fix information that doesn't exist anymore.

reply
bnlxbnlx
54 minutes ago
[-]
> I keep thinking about the version of me from a few years ago. He was worse at almost everything. Worse writer, worse thinker, worse at making things. Nobody really knew him and nobody really cared what he had to say. And yet he had so much more courage.

I would not agree that that earlier version had necessarily more courage. If no one cared than the associated risk is also lower, and thus less courage needed.

I overall agree with how important the courage to do stuff that might make you look stupid is, though.

reply
geocrasher
3 hours ago
[-]
I've never been afraid to share bad ideas because the best way to get to a good one is to go through the bad ones. Sometimes my bad ideas will spark a good idea from somebody else or sometimes it even turns out that my bad idea isn't bad at all and people like it and we end up adopting it.

Either way, not being afraid to look dumb keeps the juices flowing. And keeps the conversation going. Or sometimes it starts the conversation that nobody else is willing to start.

reply
wcfrobert
3 hours ago
[-]
Good advice to the younger folks. You can afford to look stupid. So go ahead and do that thing you wanted to try. There's more acceptance because of your age. You're expected to fail in some ways.

Once you have a mortgage, a reputation to maintain, an image of competence to uphold at work, you pretty much can't afford to look stupid in my opinion.

reply
ghywertelling
1 hour ago
[-]
Max Tegmark, a cosmologist and MIT professor, is known for his "provocative ideas" and has a self-imposed rule regarding his work: "Every time I've written ten mainstream papers, I allow myself to indulge in writing one wacky one". This approach allows him to pursue unconventional, "crazy" theories without jeopardizing his reputation as a serious scientist.
reply
themafia
1 hour ago
[-]
Intelligence and ignorance are two different things. It is a sign of intelligence to be able to acknowledge your ignorance when it exists. Then you use your intelligence to correct that. Even with a mortgage this has never failed me. 20 years, 2 employers due to an ownership change, and several RIFs survived.

The power of saying, "I don't know, but I will find out" is underestimated.

reply
Jensson
3 hours ago
[-]
Trump and Elon still afford to look stupid, you can do it your whole life.
reply
b3lvedere
2 hours ago
[-]
There's a huge 'Emperor's New Clothes' vibe going on with those two.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emperor's_New_Clothes

reply
Jur
1 hour ago
[-]
I like this post, and reality is of course more nuanced. You can read it between the lines of this article as well: by taking smaller more frquent steps (posting more regularly in context of the article) you can recover faster and and try more ideas in a short amount of time. I guess this is also what a lot of modern development methodologies and start-up mentality rely on too, so I hardly think I'm sharing something new. Still, if you have the option to make your attempt smaller it's generally worth it.

Of course you still have to take the plunge no matter how small.

reply
gopalv
4 hours ago
[-]
> The writing isn’t the problem. The problem is that when I’m done, I look at what I just wrote and think this is definitely not good enough to publish.

Ira Glass has a nice quote which is worth printing out and hanging on your wall

Nobody tells this to people who are beginners, I wish someone told me. All of us who do creative work, we get into it because we have good taste. But there is this gap. For the first couple years you make stuff, it’s just not that good. It’s trying to be good, it has potential, but it’s not. But your taste, the thing that got you into the game, is still killer. And your taste is why your work disappoints you. A lot of people never get past this phase, they quit. Most people I know who do interesting, creative work went through years of this. We know our work doesn’t have this special thing that we want it to have. We all go through this. And if you are just starting out or you are still in this phase, you gotta know its normal and the most important thing you can do is do a lot of work.

Or if you're into design thinking, the Cult-of-Done[1] was a decade ago.

[1] - https://medium.com/@bre/the-cult-of-done-manifesto-724ca1c2f...

reply
randallsquared
4 hours ago
[-]
That's the exact opposite of OP's issue, right? He was producing, and it was good, but somewhere along the way he developed good taste (or some facsimile). Ira is claiming that people who are creative beginners start with good taste, which doesn't seem to be the case for a lot of us.
reply
multidude
2 hours ago
[-]
YES! happens to me all the time in things big and small. At work, at home, with the kids, my wife, and their birthday presents. I once talked to a somewhat famous writer who told me this very thing. He said his worst critic was his inner demon biting him at every thought, every phrase, questioning his wording, waiting for the greatest possible idea, discarding all that was not breathtaking enough.

Why do we have to be great all the time? Who is telling us to be best? And i know that in writing this i am pruning myself again trying to find the best words here.

Imagine that: i want enough points for karma to be able to post here my greatest idea. Which ironically enough, is the best greatest idea i had in a loooong time, and the moment i want to share it i must wait to be found good enough and worth to be heard.

I guess the only thing we can do is to disconnect our feeling of self worth from outside signals and be happy with the little things that made us smile when we did not know nor care about other peoples opinions.

reply
MinimalAction
4 hours ago
[-]
It's a numbers game in the end. Law of large numbers at play again. The noise drops with more tries.

I suppose the corporate culture thinking is exactly opposite to this with metrics like efficiency, productivity etc. You cannot afford to try a lot and look stupider.

reply
throwawaysleep
4 hours ago
[-]
Efficiency, metrics, and willingness to look stupid works when nobody has much future power over you. If you can just refresh to a new pool, that is fine but if it is the same pool, it has consequences.

I was on an interview panel for a role and a guy lost out on the role because about 18 months prior, he had asked too many questions one time and because of that the PM thought he struggled to grasp concepts.

One meeting did in his promo.

reply
paulluuk
3 hours ago
[-]
> One meeting did in his promo.

Although true, I feel it's worth adding here that the problem is that PM. While looking stupid by asking questions can "do you in" when working with incompetent managers like that, I'd argue that most managers will look at results -- and asking dumb questions can lead to much better results compared to just staying quiet and hoping for the best.

reply
stefap2
4 hours ago
[-]
I found it gets easier as you get older. Somehow I care much less what others think
reply
b3lvedere
2 hours ago
[-]
I find it incredibly easy on people and processes my life does not depend on being the way it is. I find it incredibly annoying and unconfortable when around people and processes my life depends on.
reply
bear141
1 hour ago
[-]
Reading this makes me think of the effect of doing something you do all the time, and are pretty great at, but when someone is watching you, you inevitably make a stupid mistake.

It also makes me think of certain people that attain the level of fame where everything they do is praised, whether it is objectively good or not.

reply
dworks
4 hours ago
[-]
A willingness to look stupid is a core requirement for learning languages. I look stupid everyday.
reply
FreePalestine1
4 hours ago
[-]
I actually don't like this statement. I'd rephrase it because trying to speak in a language doesn't make you look stupid, or at least it shouldn't. Saying "I look stupid everyday" just reinforces that there is something inherently stupid about not knowing a language and trying to learn it. If anything trying to learn a language when it's not a requirement for something, is really anything but stupid.
reply
rvrs
4 hours ago
[-]
Whether you like it or not you will look stupid to native speakers. It's a subconscious bias
reply
tayo42
4 hours ago
[-]
Idk if that's universal, when I run into people who struggle with English or just don't know it my first thought has never been this is a stupid person.
reply
klausa
2 hours ago
[-]
"Looking stupid" and "being a stupid person", or even "coming off as a stupid person" are not the same things.
reply
dworks
4 hours ago
[-]
No, it does. Even if the audience knows that your English or other languages is perfectly professional, speaking Chinese at a lower level does leave a certain negative impression.
reply
zephen
4 hours ago
[-]
I think the phrasing is fine. It's self-aware. It acknowledges that stupidity, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.

"Looking stupid" is not the same as "being stupid." It could be very smart indeed, depending on your circumstances, to learn an additional language, and the point being made is that when going out in public and speaking it in front of native speakers, ridicule is not unexpected, and should be embraced.

reply
orthoxerox
1 hour ago
[-]
True. When we were in Italy, my wife couldn't say a single phrase in Italian because she was afraid she might make a mistake. I knew not making one would be impossible, so I just geared down to "barbarian" to get my point across.

"Good morning. Tickets destination Grossetto, please. Two adults, one child. Six years. Yes, return. Card acceptable? Thank you."

reply
arjie
3 hours ago
[-]
Realistically it’s just audience capture. Happens to everyone. Guy makes one hit tweet. He becomes that tweet guy. Always trying to recapture.

I like to think that my blog is mostly for my daughter to read and think to herself “oh that’s who dad was”. And secondarily for AI. That helps.

reply
samitugal
1 hour ago
[-]
It’s actually a blessing when people don’t have huge expectations of you. The higher their expectations get, the more your stress increases and your productivity drops. Forever the underdog :)
reply
abcde666777
3 hours ago
[-]
I don't think we ever escape the desire to avoid looking bad - we just recontextualize it. For instance the article is basically making a short vs long term argument - in the short term you might look foolish, but as a result you might produce something of value (which in the long term will make you look fantastic).

So personally I prefer to frame these things that way - it's not that we should want to look foolish for its own sake (obviously), it's that part of getting anywhere in life is taking some risks and developing your threshold for doing so.

reply
nickvec
2 hours ago
[-]
Yeah, I'm not sure if it's the prevalence of AI-generated text on the Internet now, but I feel more motivated to just... type stuff out and post it now without giving it too much thought (where previously I would overthink things.) Could be all the Claude Code prompting I've been doing too? Not sure.
reply
famahar
2 hours ago
[-]
I feel more motivated to write now because a "badly" written text made by a human to me is always better than a "perfect" text completely made by AI. Everyone has their own way of writing. Embracing that in these times is something to find motivation in.
reply
john-j
2 hours ago
[-]
- Could be a much higher prevalence of badly written AI-generated articles, awful AI slop code etc - you know you can do better

- Could be the opposite, the fact that a lot of what is AI-generated is well polished, at least on a surface - your raw input is distinguishable as a human and rated higher by yourself or others

- Could be the motivation to try to keep internet human-made even if it seems like a lost fight

- Could be the fact that people overall take less effort to write things as you can always polish it up with AI - some decide not to do that and still post it - you feel safer doing the same

reply
helloplanets
3 hours ago
[-]
This is also what's called the beginner's mind, Shoshin. [0] One of the core concepts of Zen Buddhism. Tangentially related would be the concept of no-mind, Mushin. [1]

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoshin [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-mind

reply
akhrail1996
3 hours ago
[-]
The fear of looking stupid is basically a false positive machine. It optimizes so hard for not being wrong (type I error?) that it rejects way more ideas than it should. And most of the time the "that I'll look dumb" signal is just noise - nobody actually cares or even notices. You're always standing on the safe side of a threshold that's set way too conservatively.
reply
WalterBright
1 hour ago
[-]
Young people care what others think of them.

Middle age people don't care what others think of them.

Old people know nobody thinks about them.

reply
allie1
3 hours ago
[-]
I would have loved for the author to cover the 3rd category - people whose ego doesn't let them post anything even before they're known. Everyone in small towns and cities already feels "known" and exposed vs living in big cities like NYC.
reply
PotatoShadow
3 hours ago
[-]
This reminded me of this essay by Isaac Asimov on creativity

https://www.technologyreview.com/2014/10/20/169899/isaac-asi...

reply
sonofhans
1 hour ago
[-]
Ward said it succinctly, as was his wont: “The best way to get the right answer on the Internet is not to ask a question; it's to post the wrong answer."

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Cunningham%27s_Law

reply
arabinda
1 hour ago
[-]
It is probably the most difficult and the most important life skill you need to develop
reply
Animats
3 hours ago
[-]
Never make it to management that way. Other people have to do the failing.
reply
balamatom
26 minutes ago
[-]
Need someone to look stupid for me, $100/hr.
reply
oldestofsports
2 hours ago
[-]
Just a few sentences in and the author is already comparing himself to nobel prize winners. Love it! Nice article!
reply
teekert
1 hour ago
[-]
I think I was 35 when I first said to myself: "When you don't understand something, it's either because it's difficult, or because you don't have all information you need yet."

Being able to think this (and really feel it) was a big step for me. I think objectively I was always quite smart and also highly educated but I still felt like an imposter. It's nice when you finally feel that trust in yourself. And indeed I probably sometimes look stupid, but I think I often come back quickly in smart ways afterwards anyway, so I don't care so much about it.

reply
tombert
4 hours ago
[-]
Queue obligatory Weird Al: https://youtu.be/SMhwddNQSWQ

I'm human so I'm certainly not immune to social anxiety or embarrassment from looking stupid, but I have been trying to do a manual override that for the last year.

Something it took me an embarrassing amount of time to realize is that the first draft of nearly everything I do is bad. The first draft of my code is usually bad, the first draft of an essay I write is usually bad, the first version of something I draw is usually bad. If I don't allow myself to look stupid, even if only for the first draft of something, then I'll never accomplish anything. Doing something crappy is a means to doing something not-crappy.

I don't think I'm alone with this. There appears to be some ambiguity on who actually first said this, but there's an adage of "There's no great writing, only good rewriting".

reply
karolusrex
1 hour ago
[-]
There is sibling concept of the Nobel prize winner ending up doing less meaningful work after they received their price. In history there are countless examples of the underdog emerging from the shadows and the dominant empire collapsing under its own weight; a natural rotation of roles. It is explained in detail here: https://youtu.be/ybufqRY77PQ
reply
cjlm
3 hours ago
[-]
reply
KuSpa
1 hour ago
[-]
What a genuine read. And it is kinda the whole reason why i started blogging (shameless plug: stupid-ideas.com). You never git gud if you never start. And you innevitably look stupid to some people when starting.
reply
bolangi
4 hours ago
[-]
Definitely needed to succeed in theater and take risks in life.
reply
satisfice
1 hour ago
[-]
“Fragile ego” is such a tired trope. It is certainly a factor, but its effects are way overestimated. Something about “fragile ego” seems to stop people from thinking any further.

“Looking stupid” has an obvious downside. Just restate it as “proven incompetent.” If you are proven incompetent within your social group, you lose your power. Loss of power has terrible consequences! Duh!

When someone blames fragile ego, which is equivalent to saying “fear of losing self-respect” but ignores “being ostracized from access to resources and influence by people you depend upon and respect” I might conclude that I should ignore what that person thinks, because maybe they have a thinking impairment. (See how that works?)

Young people are not trying things because they are fearless, nor do they have bullet-proof egos, they are trying things because they really are stupid (in a gentle manner of speaking). They don’t know as much as they will know. Also, they know they have no social status and they must take risks to prove themselves.

Finally, they do it because they have nothing else to do and nothing else to protect.

reply
imiric
3 hours ago
[-]
Great article.

I've observed this behavior at work. It doesn't present itself only as not sharing. People with recognition and political leverage can share wrong ideas confidently, and others will naturally follow them. If they're challenged on that idea, and even presented evidence that it's wrong, they often push back and double down on it, or don't acknowledge the correction at all.

I think this is more detrimental to the team and organization than the fear of sharing the wrong idea. For some reason, some senior people will do anything to avoid losing face in public, yet they still seek recognition for their work.

On the other hand, it is a real pleasure to work with senior people who can acknowledge their mistakes, are willing to learn from them, and course correct if needed. It shows maturity and humility, and sets a good example for others, which is exactly what good leaders should do.

reply
Razengan
2 hours ago
[-]
Human society is too stifled by expectations of how every should behave, from the people who raise you and you grow up with and shows and movies, so much that we try to match that and be happy/sad/angry/prim/proper/etc. at times even when we don't really feel that way.
reply
shevy-java
3 hours ago
[-]
A certain president?

However had, at any level, people may look stupid for doing something that was not clever. I don't think even very smart people are 100% of the time very clever.

reply
bhanuhai
3 hours ago
[-]
Nice work
reply
zoklet-enjoyer
4 hours ago
[-]
I'm a nearly 40 year old man and I skip through the halls at work most days. It's something I've been doing for a long time because it's fun, it's faster than walking, and it looks silly. It seems to help some people loosen up when they see their colleague skipping down the hall and I think that helps team morale.
reply
hyperhello
4 hours ago
[-]
Caring if you get downvoted makes your posts dull.
reply
b3lvedere
2 hours ago
[-]
Somehow sometimes it's not so easy, for me at least. Not that i care about the number, but more that it wasn't beneficial or i offended someone.
reply
ipaddr
4 hours ago
[-]
Measured. If what you are saying is being downvoted this group might not be ready for it.

Saying something like Claude is over rated as a general llm because of loftly guardrails will get downvotes today but seen as insightful down the road. You can be too early or late.

Take Tailwinds. Is it loved or hated now? We went through different phases.

reply
hyperhello
4 hours ago
[-]
I don’t even consider assigning a numerical score to a post meaningful. Downvoting is for trash posts that we all agree are trash, like the weirdos who write angry insults or the AI spam, not a quantitative metric. When applied to honest commentary it feels like twelve year olds yelling shut up at you.
reply
yen223
4 hours ago
[-]
Bears look smart, bulls do things
reply
reverius42
4 hours ago
[-]
Let's see a bull open a very complicated garbage dumpster in a national park. Maybe bears are actually smart and not just looking smart?

> Said one park ranger, "There is considerable overlap between the intelligence of the smartest bears and the dumbest tourists."

reply
saulpw
4 hours ago
[-]
I think they are probably referring to marketplace bears and bulls.
reply
csin
2 hours ago
[-]
It's a horrendous example.

Bears are the same thing as bulls. Just the opposite.

You can look like a degenerate wallstreetbets gambler, being a bull, buying puts.

You can equally look like a degenerate wallstreetbets gambler, being a gay bear, shorting the stock.

The "beauty" of our modern stock market, is it provides both sides the avenue to lose stupid amounts of money.

reply
emil-lp
4 hours ago
[-]
I would think that bears are much smarter than bulls?
reply
ljlolel
4 hours ago
[-]
AI has no ego
reply
Lionga
3 hours ago
[-]
AI also has no intelligence
reply
ronjakoi
4 hours ago
[-]
Are you sure?
reply
applfanboysbgon
4 hours ago
[-]
...but is specifically reinforced into generating text that satisfies the humans training it, and therefore is innately predisposed towards approval-seeking generations.
reply