Britain is ejecting hereditary nobles from Parliament after 700 years
57 points
1 hour ago
| 10 comments
| apnews.com
| HN
mindwok
12 minutes ago
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British democracy and government is cool. It's not enshrined in some document they got together and wrote down like the US constitution, it's this organic thing that they've stumbled towards over the last ~800 years with small changes like this one gradually evolving them into a modern liberal democracy.
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pjc50
2 minutes ago
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I go back and forth on this. It's a lot like the palace of Westminster itself: charming, whimsical, historical, connected to the past, hopelessly impractical, postponing repairs until things break, and at significant risk of being burned down.

On the other hand it avoids the illusion that power resides in a text and that you can legal-magic your way past a power structure.

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protocolture
2 minutes ago
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I see brits describing it as "Dictatorship with Democratic characteristics" and "3 weasels leading the 4th rabid weasel around by the tail" it doesnt seem "cool" by any stretch, except maybe if it was fictional and the people it hurt were not real.
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rvz
5 minutes ago
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> British democracy and government is cool.

Oh sweet summer child.

The government there does not care about you and will promise anything to get another 5 years in power despite causing the issues the promised to solve in the first place.

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pjc50
1 minute ago
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In fairness, this is not unique to Britain. For America read "4" instead of "5".
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sb057
5 minutes ago
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Also in the pipeline: elimination of jury trials

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cm2x01yne13o

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aaronrobinson
9 minutes ago
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The title makes it sound like they’re removing the remains of lost Lords gathering dust on the seats although that’s probably not too far from the truth.
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amadeuspagel
16 minutes ago
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> The case of Peter Mandelson, who resigned from the Lords in February after revelations about his friendship with the late sex offender Jeffrey Epstein, drew renewed attention to the upper chamber and the problem of lords behaving badly.

But Mandelson wasn't a hereditary noble. His example is an argument for abolishing the House of Lords entirely (which I agree with in any case) but not specifically for ejecting hereditary nobles.

> Labour remains committed to eventually replacing the House of Lords with an alternative second chamber that is “more representative of the U.K.” If past experience is anything to go by, change will come slowly.

Why does the House of Lords need to be replaced at all? Most countries are gridlocked enough with one chamber of parliament.

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throwaway7783
2 minutes ago
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Does House of Lords have any real power today?
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theodric
20 minutes ago
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The point of the hereditary peerage was the same as the point of having a non-elected Senate. Now both will have been lost in the name of "democracy" - a system of government that constantly fails to do either what is the desire of the people OR what is truly in their interests. From here on out it'll just be whoever manages to connive their way into power through connections, payola, corruption, island meetups, and so on. I strongly suspect this will lead to a worse government, not a better one.
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kbelder
8 minutes ago
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How about a chamber populated by random lottery? Like jury duty?
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KK7NIL
2 minutes ago
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Perhaps you're joking, but Athenian democracy had a significant amount of randomness, with candidates being chosen randomly from the top vote winners. Terms were also only 1 year for most positions.

These, and other systems, helped prevent any one person from monopolizing power.

This is a good video on this: https://youtu.be/pIgMTsQXg3Q

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tartoran
16 minutes ago
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Why would a hereditary system work any better? Plenty of monarchies based on heredity ran themselves into the ground.
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taylorius
3 minutes ago
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Heredity is only one of many flavours of cronyism.
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theodric
13 minutes ago
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It provides an additional check. Much like a monarch, a noble's interests are tied to the welfare of the country itself. Without the country, they're just a toff with some money and an overinflated sense of self-importance.
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pkaodev
8 minutes ago
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This is the most convincing argument for the house of lords/monarchy that I've ever heard. Going to be thinking about this for a while, thanks.
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Chinjut
17 minutes ago
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The Senate is, while not the whole story, a significant part of the reason the government constantly fails to do what is either the desire of the people or what's in their interests. I wouldn't lament losing the Senate.
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jfengel
8 minutes ago
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The US Senate is designed to check and balance the House of Representatives. But that often puts the Congress as a whole in deadlock, meaning it can no longer balance the other two branches.

When they could get anything done they delegated a lot of power to the Executive. Which worked ok, but eventually a "unitary executive" appropriated even more power, and the Legislature is powerless to prevent it.

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JumpCrisscross
1 hour ago
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“…a compromise that will see an undisclosed number of hereditary members allowed to stay by being ‘recycled’ into life peers.”

What? Are the membership roles and the text of this law confidential?

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graypegg
46 minutes ago
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Odd! I think this is the bill?

https://bills.parliament.uk/bills/3755/publications

It's rather hard to read because the amendments are written as a diff, but it seems to imply the undisclosed number is 87 peers. I guess they need to decide amongst themselves who the lucky 87 are?

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/cbill/59-01/0295... Bill 295 2024-25 (Lords Amendments)

    “1. (2) (2) No more than 87 people at any one time shall be excepted from section 1.”
---

Edit: Wow, is this ever hard to pin down. I think section 1 of the lord's amendments were dropped here: https://bills.parliament.uk/bills/3755/stages/20179/motionsa...

which I guess means that the text remains the same as the original text in HL-49 (https://bills.parliament.uk/publications/56858/documents/533...):

    # Exclusion of remaining hereditary peers
    Omit section 2 of the House of Lords Act 1999 (exception to exclusion of hereditary peers from membership of House of Lords).
which is a patch onto another law, that is linked to in the PDF but for whatever reason does not resolve for me: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1999/34/contents.
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pjc50
46 minutes ago
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Doesn't need to be in the text of the law. The Crown can appoint an arbitrary list of life peers - possibly at any time (see Chiltern Hundreds).

As the article points out, the life peers are arguably worse. People like Mandelson.

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alopha
36 minutes ago
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Now we're down to just an upper house absolutely stuffed with hundreds of washed up political hacks given a comfortable retirement and party donors. And a few priests.
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iberator
36 minutes ago
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Win for democracy and fair representation of the working class!

Being Noble is like saying 'i used to have slaves(even if not, then feudalism was the de'facto slave system too!) and made profits from it'

Such people are enemies of humanity and democracy and markets. I hope one day they all just go.

King and his small family is fine btw. Cultural reason:)

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kbelder
11 minutes ago
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It's not "I used to have slaves...", it's "My ancestors used to have slaves...".

Having a class of nobles is an embarrassment for a country, and they should have been kicked out of parliament a century ago. But don't attribute to the child the sins of the father; that's the same category of error that the concept of hereditary nobility falls into.

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coldtea
16 minutes ago
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>Win for democracy and fair representation of the working class

In Britain? Good luck with that.

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dude250711
20 minutes ago
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Yep, getting rid of nobility is how USSR lived happily ever after.
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stvltvs
13 minutes ago
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Getting rid of hereditary nobility has worked out pretty well for the USA.
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dude250711
32 seconds ago
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That's kind of dark, besides UK nobility is native, so making reservations is not likely.
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dylan604
3 minutes ago
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Has it? By what metric are using for that? Two Bush presidencies off the power of the senior patriarch. Current president comes from family wealth. Most of the oligarchs come from family wealth. It's not until the recent tech billionaires that became first generation oligarchs.
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coldtea
15 minutes ago
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Well, for all USSRs issues, getting rid of their nobility was one of the best things they did.
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dylan604
1 minute ago
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It's what fills the vacuum that matters, just as POTUS is finding out in Iran. If you don't have a plan for after creating the vacuum, you're probably not going to be happy with how it is filled
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pydry
13 minutes ago
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Until the UK military pledge allegiance to democracy rather than the king, the royal family is also a risk to democracy.

Thailand is an object lesson in how monarchy is repeatedly used as a lever by military and business elites to overthrow democratic representation "in the name of the king".

It almost happened in the UK once, too, in the same way it happened in Thailand.

The reason the media is so keen on the institution is because it functions as a "break glass in case of emergency" for elites. It's not an organic part of the culture, it is shoved down our throats.

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throw_rust
29 minutes ago
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From hereditary buffoons to patronage pissoir and party hack retirement home, not much better off methinks.
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meitham
25 minutes ago
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It’s not just about the seat they must lose their “lord” title
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