Oil hits $100 a barrel despite deal to release record amount of reserves
42 points
1 hour ago
| 11 comments
| bbc.com
| HN
msy
39 minutes ago
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This theory of how the US loses in Iran is looking increasingly likely: https://kasperbenjamin.substack.com/p/why-the-us-will-lose-t...

It's going to be incredibly difficult to stop Iran being able to kneecap both the global economy and in particular the gulf states, who are going to be motivated to put maximum pressure on the US to sue for peace. Incredible hubris and a lobotomised diplomatic and intelligence infrastructure in the name of ideological purity, quite the combination.

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itake
28 minutes ago
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1/ When authors use AI for editing, it reduces their credibility.

2/ As much as I don't like the current administration (and Israel leadership), there is absolutely no way the assumptions this article makes about them are false.

There is no way the US/Israel didn't calculate that:

- the straight would be closed

- a new leader may represent similar idiologies of the past leader.

Everything that has happened so far (in regards to Iran attacking neighbors) has been extremely predictable. There is just no way these weren't calculated in.

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robertjpayne
24 minutes ago
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Maybe the US military commanders, generals and Pentagon knew this but the civilian leadership at the top chose to completely ignore it and can't really articulate a plan or what the plan ever was.
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applfanboysbgon
23 minutes ago
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They were calculated in, but the decision was made by someone who did not give a fuck about the math.
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Barrin92
21 minutes ago
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>there is just no way these weren't calculated in.

the American government is publishing war footage intercut with Call of Duty scenes. The American secretary of defense is a former television personality with more tattoos than people in a trailer park. He said rules of engagement are stupid because they stop you from "winning" while the US bombed a girl's school.

They literally fired the people who calculate things and wage war based on memes, vibes and chatgpt recommendations

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beloch
18 minutes ago
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The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff is reported to have recommended against further air strikes on Iran[1].

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"Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Air Force General Dan Caine, has warned that strikes against Iran could be risky, potentially drawing the US into a prolonged conflict, US media report.

Caine has reportedly cautioned that a military action could have repercussions across the region, potentially including retaliatory strikes by Iranian proxies or a larger conflict that would require more US forces.

In a lengthy post on Truth Social, Trump described the reports as "fake news".

------------

[1]https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn0zrwzr519o

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davidw
25 minutes ago
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> There is no way the US

Eppur si muove.

These folks are not our best and brightest.

https://www.wsj.com/finance/u-s-plan-to-unblock-strait-of-ho...

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zer00eyz
17 minutes ago
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> There is no way the US/Israel didn't calculate that: ... the straight would be closed

It has always had this potential, as it has happened before: see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Earnest_Will (1987). But based on this history I would assume that many in the admin did not find the threat as credible as it was then. We dont seem to have a good grasp on how things have gone in the black sea. We clearly did not anticipate the level of drone attacks that have been put out by Iran.

Nothing says "we did not have a plan" when easing Russian sanctions while you ask Ukraine for help with defenses.

> a new leader may represent similar idiologies of the past leader.

I could see making a bet that with the current water crisis there the this would tip them into an "Arab spring" moment. For any one aware of the history there, it was a poor one at best.

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surgical_fire
10 minutes ago
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> There is no way the US/Israel didn't calculate that:

I don't really believe the buffoons in US leadership calculate much. It's all vibes.

I firmly believe it will become a case study in how many ways a comically incompetent government can damage a country.

As for Israel... I think their calculation is simple. They don't really care about how much damage they cause to the world economy, as long as they get to kill Muslims in general and Iranians in particular. They want death.

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shubhamjain
21 minutes ago
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You might expect events like this to fundamentally change the global order or bring some sanity to U.S. policymaking. But nothing is going to change. It will be chaotic few years, but soon enough, everything will be conveniently forgotten. Iranian/Syrian/Afganian threat will reappear, the war-mongers and Israel-lobby will once more push for pre-emptive strikes, assassinations of leaders or generals. Rinse and repeat.

At its core, the problem is a militarized, propaganda-driven state masquareding itself as a necessary guarantor of global order, while its sole objective is nothing more than letting no other nation threaten its supremacy. And much of the world continuing to accept that narrative either because of lack of alternatives or out of necessity.

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YZF
12 minutes ago
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The core of the problem is that the US stepped back under Obama from being the guarantor of global order. The world needs policing and deterrence is the sad reality otherwise everything goes to hell.

Why did Russia attack Ukraine? Why is China threatening to attack Taiwan? Without the US (and the west more generally) Russia would retake half of Europe and China would have taken Taiwan. If you think there would be world peace you are so very much mistaken (speaking of propaganda). If you goal is to speak Russian and Chinese and live in those sorts of regimes then that's very much aligned with the US and the West just stepping back and not using force ever.

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davidw
6 minutes ago
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Things don't change... until they do.
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YZF
17 minutes ago
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Wars are hard to predict and the economy is hard to predict. There's easy money in the making for those who are sure the oil price is going to continue way up.

The blog you reference has inaccuracies. Drones are generally not shot by THAAD is a glaring one. It's very much not 2-3 million dollars to $50k. Helicopter gunships shoot down drones with bullets these days is very common and there are other economic means of bringing them down.

Most of the heavy lifting in suppressing these attacks is done by other drones patrolling the skies and attacking anything that tries to fire. Those also don't use extremely expensive munitions.

"Iran produces approximately 500 of these drones per day and holds a stockpile estimated at around 80,000 units.". Both these are false today. I'd also question if they were true when Iran was attacked. These figures don't pass the smell test and either way any stockpile is an instant target.

Everyone seems to be an expert today.

It's obviously not great that the Hormuz straits are more or less closed. We've seen in Yemen that a ragtag force can be massively attacked and still manage to fire at ships on a much larger body of water. That said we didn't really see if they can sustain it for months under heavy attack which is a possible premise here.

There are some pipelines bypassing the straits but their capacity is much smaller. It's also about 20% of the world supply so definitely other suppliers can make up for some of the loss at a cost.

I'm not an expert. But the current oil price reflects what the experts think best. And that price is still below what it was for about half of 2022. And fluctuating. What will matter is the price over months.

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silisili
22 minutes ago
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Whatever points this author was trying to make were completely obliterated by the LLM it was run through or used to generate it.

A shame because it seems to have interesting points, but was too wordy and LLMified to keep attention. Stop telling me what it's not every other sentence, and just say what you mean. I wish folks would just use their own words.

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3eb7988a1663
15 minutes ago
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  Japan, an island nation with virtually no natural resources of its own, depends on it for a staggering 75% of its oil. Japan’s Prime Minister has warned plainly that if the Strait closes, the entire Japanese economy will collapse within eight to nine months. Not slow down. Not a contract. Collapse.
I am failing to an article about this, but that is absolutely incredible if true.
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steve_adams_86
23 minutes ago
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This is written a bit like the US dollar depends solely on the price of oil, which isn't true.

It also seems like if we're to game theory this, we'd need to plot out the full escalation capacity of the USA, which the author is failing to do here. I don't like the idea of doing that because the thought is sickening, but it's necessary to consider the entire decision tree to make a remotely rational model.

In retrospect I guess game theory is used kind of rhetorically here. If you consider what's written through that lens, it's very poorly developed and doesn't make sense. Maybe this is a thing, though? Am I misunderstanding what the author means by game theory here?

I do think the asymmetry of war costs are a serious problem for the USA, and the less they're willing to escalate or otherwise mitigate this, the more serious that problem becomes. If I were to make a statement like the author did about the war, I'd frame it more like "this is going to be insanely fucking risky and expensive for the USA", but certainly not that they'll lose.

edit: Listening to the Professor Jiang analysis and I understand why game theory was referenced now. He seems much more thorough and analytical so far.

edit again: he claims Dubai will probably go bankrupt in one scenario. This seems exceedingly unlikely, but he doesn't explain why it could be true

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morkalork
29 minutes ago
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That's a lot of words for describing "attempting MAD doctrine with conventional weapons". Hell, we even got to see a "first strike decapitation countered by autonomous cells with pre-written second strike directives" scenario play out.
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tinyhouse
22 minutes ago
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Israel and the US completely control their airspace and Iran's entire navy got demolished. I think the US prefers not to got too far as they prefer to keep the negotiation talks open. According to reports they asked Israel not to target energy for example.
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jiggawatts
27 minutes ago
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Normally what happens in these scenarios is that both sides declare victory and go home to lick their wounds.

The US and Israel can claim that they've caused the IRGC sufficient damage to set them back a decade or more.

Iran will declare that they've fought off a superpower with minimal real losses, and they can say that despite the best efforts at interference, they chose and kept their preferred leader alive.

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robertjpayne
23 minutes ago
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Normally yes, but without regime change the Iranian leadership will have even more resolve than ever to continue weapons programs (nuclear or not) and prepare retaliation for the inevitable next round of bombing…

There is no winning here for anyone.

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liuliu
34 minutes ago
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Not really. The U.S. can send in the ground force to restore the trade around the Gulf. The BUT is obvious in this case tho.
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solid_fuel
31 minutes ago
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That's not a reasonable option, it's a bear-trap. Once troops are on the ground it will be another decades-long slog, and one that ends like Afghanistan at best. At worst, this looks like America's version of Ukraine.
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YZF
7 minutes ago
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I can argue both sides but under the assumption (which I think is true) that 80%-90% of Iranians want to remove the regime there's some possibility of success. That said there's also the possibility of screwing things up completely and getting the entire population to fight you as an invader.

One thing for sure, it's not going to look like Russia invading Ukraine. The Iranians don't have the resolve or the support or the capabilities that Ukraine had and has. It will look more like Iraq in terms of the ability of the military to put up any resistance.

The problem with "boots on the ground" isn't that it can't succeed. The problem is it has zero support from the American public. People feel about this a lot more strongly than the other topics dividing the public.

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_heimdall
27 minutes ago
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Trump, the neo-cons, and much of the Republican party might as well hang up their hats if they put boots on the ground (beyond special forces which is often ignored for some reason).

The US will be bogged down for years at a minimum if we entered Iran on the ground, or we would lose quickly and tuck tail.

This isn't a fight to be won in a conventional war, the administration put every chip they had on a gamble that regime change was possible with air superiority alone. I don't know of any historical example of that working, but I guess we'll see what happens.

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YZF
3 minutes ago
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Everyone says there's no historical examples but there is no exact parallel either. I wouldn't argue based on historical precedence here.

The challenge is that regime is large and armed and they can hide and weather the storm. They'll hide in hospitals, and mosques, and schools and amongst civilians.

Getting them and disrupting their organization to a point where a popular revolt can take over seems ... lessay hard.

What needs to happen is that some parts of the military, who are a bit less fanatic, switches sides. The probability of that is very hard to gauge. There are stories of some defecting but hard to know if it's true or not.

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robertjpayne
26 minutes ago
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The ground deployment to the mountains on Iran's side of the strait will have to be absolutely insane to actually eliminate the threat (if it's even possible to) of Iran launching drones or suicide boats at tankers.
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Waterluvian
34 minutes ago
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I think it’s wild to me just how much my mainstream news doesn’t feel like it’s covering some of what’s really going on. I have to go to YouTube to see that Iran is successfully fighting back in many ways including hitting oil tankers and depots.

Not that I’m claiming the CBC and such are doing something sinister here. Just that I no-longer get the full story vibe I recall getting back in previous U.S. wars.

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macNchz
18 minutes ago
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I was just talking with a friend about this on Sunday, just before the big oil price runup—it was very curious to me that I had had to hunt around a bit for coverage of what was going on with the strait.

Closure was something I had known was a risk with any conflict with Iran after learning about the Tanker War in some politics class in college, and following the various threats over the past 15 years or so. It seemed like something that should have had tons of coverage as soon as I heard the US had attacked Iran, and I wanted to know what was actually going on with it...yet all of the mainstream press seemed to skirt around it until oil prices finally spiked on Sunday, even though traffic through the strait had fallen off a cliff a week beforehand.

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Brybry
13 minutes ago
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Al Jazeera, AP News, NYT, etc have been doing "live blogs" every day of the war since it started.

CBC does it too. https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/livestory/iran-israel-us-war-d...

Though I will say CBC's seems to not include as many individual strike and counterstrike posts as others.

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davidw
27 minutes ago
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Corporate media in this moment is... not great.

Figuring out what takes its place is a hard problem that no one seems to have cracked. I don't know if its replacement will be very profitable, but we all lose out when media isn't working. Having a shared reality is fundamental for a healthy society.

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colechristensen
17 minutes ago
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News organizations need to not be part of larger corporations and a nontrivial amount of their funding needs to be some kind of endowment.

Media mergers need to just be illegal, Disney/Viacomm/TimeWarner (god I don't even know what the big ones are any more) need to be broken up.

"we don't want to make the administration mad so our merger will be let through" is just absurd.

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yyyk
21 minutes ago
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"fighting back" == blowing 3rd party civilian installations.
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heavyset_go
19 minutes ago
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PBS has been alright in this regard
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colechristensen
20 minutes ago
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They're all afraid of America's dictator whose only interest is his own personal image. This is how corruption kills nations, overbearing unchecked power meeting a lack of bravery or conviction in those who matter.

Maybe Le Monde give the right balance?

https://www.lemonde.fr/en/

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keyle
27 minutes ago
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The irony of drill, baby drill, and removing the environmental restrictions, encouraging the sale of petrol cars... And then causing the prices to be jacked up.

2026 I swear..., I'm expected a post on top of HN any day about

"i've written all code by hand this month, here is what i learnt".

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fulafel
23 minutes ago
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This is worrying about trivialities. We need to be rapidly phasing out fossils usage to mitigate the climate catastrophe. Which of course requires a much much smaller supply of oil.

There should be ~ $250/barrel cost added to the market price to account for externalities (barrel of oil releases 0.43 tons of co2 and avg social cost of carbon from https://arxiv.org/html/2402.09125v3 is $500+/ton)

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BLKNSLVR
13 minutes ago
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I've found it mind boggling for at least a decade (since solar panels started being a relatively normal consumer addition to the home) that a transition to electric and away from fossil fuels hasn't been an, essentially, national security priority for all countries other than those that produce oil.

The dependence, of literally almost everything, on the continuous flow of oil from few parts of the world has been an obvious point of strangulation for longer than I've been alive.

I mean, I understand that it's so entrenched that politics is owned by it, but, hell, it's been, what a week and a bit, and already Australian media is trying to talk down panic about petrol shortages.

The blind leading the blind.

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fulafel
10 minutes ago
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Yes indeed.

And of course mitigating the climate catastrophe should be much more entrenched, there's vastly more voters whose lives will be impacted by it than by fortunes of the oil business.

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notepad0x90
25 minutes ago
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https://polymarket.com/event/will-crude-oil-cl-hit-by-end-of...

I wonder how prediction markets are affecting all this.

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_heimdall
35 minutes ago
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The stat has been raised frequently of late that 20% of the world's oil floes through the Straight.

My understanding is that its 20% of total oil, but that around half of all oil production is used domestically where it is produced and never enters global markets.

Unless I missed something when fact checking that, Iran is capable cutting off 40% of all purchasable oil.

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perfmode
23 minutes ago
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75% of Japan’s oil. 60% of India’s oil. 40% of China’s oil. is what i’ve heard.
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nchcss76
28 minutes ago
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I feel this is good. It will push economies towards more alternatives(nuclear/solar/wind etc), increase electrification of transport/cooking. Amazon saw India induction stove sales jump 30x after LPG supply hit issues. There is no real reason to be importing expensive gas for cooking, when the induction stove are just much more efficient and cheaper. This is one way to change existing habits that people find uncomfortable letting go off.
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ggm
33 minutes ago
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Price moves have hysteresis. The risk element in moving Oil hasn't gone, and the companies are looking to recover lost income in the month(s) and so whilst there is supply, there aren't necessarily boats in convenient places, or complete freedoms to walk off contracts.

Give it 30 days, things might have changed.

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measurablefunc
41 minutes ago
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That's because oil tankers are going up in flames: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTzdxq0trb0
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Animats
21 minutes ago
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Saw a Chevron station in Silicon Valley today with a price above $7/gallon. That's not typical, but it's real.
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npn
41 minutes ago
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it's not like they found anyway to open the Hormuz strait, why should the price be lower.

one again the world suffers thank to US stupidity.

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