The 49MB Web Page
95 points
1 hour ago
| 13 comments
| thatshubham.com
| HN
cjs_ac
5 minutes ago
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My family's first broadband internet connection, circa 2005, came with a monthly data quota of 400 MB.

The fundamental problem of journalism is that the economics no longer works out. Historically, the price of a copy of a newspaper barely covered the cost of printing; the rest of the cost was covered by advertising. And there was an awful lot of advertising: everything was advertised in newspapers. Facebook Marketplace and Craigslist were a section of the newspaper, as was whichever website you check for used cars or real estate listings. Journalism had to be subsidised by advertising, because most people aren't actually that interested in the news to pay the full cost of quality reporting; nowadays, the only newspapers that are thriving are those that aggressively target those who have an immediate financial interest in knowing what's going on: the Financial Times, Bloomberg, and so on.

The fact is that for most people, the news was interesting because it was new every day. Now that there is a more compelling flood of entertainment in television and the internet, news reporting is becoming a niche product.

The lengths that news websites are going to to extract data from their readers to sell to data brokers is just a last-ditch attempt to remain profitable.

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PunchyHamster
27 minutes ago
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Our developers managed to run around 750MB per website open once.

They have put in ticket with ops that the server is slow and could we look at it. So we looked. Every single video on a page with long video list pre-loaded a part of it. The single reason the site didn't ran like shit for them is coz office had direct fiber to out datacenter few blocks away.

We really shouldn't allow web developers more than 128kbit of connection speed, anything more and they just make nonsense out of it.

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ceejayoz
17 minutes ago
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Same for fancy computers. Dev on a fast one if you like, but test things out on a Chromebook.
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mananaysiempre
9 minutes ago
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“Craptop duty”[1]. (Third time in three years I’m posting an essentially identical comment, hah.)

[1] https://css-tricks.com/test-your-product-on-a-crappy-laptop/

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Joel_Mckay
3 minutes ago
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Based on the damage rate for company laptop screens, one can usually be sure anything high-end will be out of your own pocket. =3
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Joel_Mckay
12 minutes ago
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If you want to see context aware pre-fetching done right go to mcmaster.com ...

There are good reasons to have a small cheap development staging server, as the rate-limited connection implicitly trains people what not to include. =3

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sublinear
12 minutes ago
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I'm pretty damn sure those videos were put on the page because someone in marketing wanted them. I'm pretty sure then QA complained the videos loaded too slowly, so the preloading was added. Then, the upper management responsible for the mess shrugged their shoulders and let it ship.

You're not insightful for noticing a website is dog slow or that there is a ton of data being served (almost none of which is actually the code). Please stop blaming the devs. You're laundering blame. Almost no detail of a web site or app is ever up to the devs alone.

From the perspective of the devs, they expect that the infrastructure can handle what the business wanted. If you have a problem you really should punch up, not down.

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zahlman
7 minutes ago
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"Developers" here clearly refers to the entire organization responsible. The internal politics of the foo.com providers are not relevant to Foo users.
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arccy
8 minutes ago
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Sounds just like a "helpless" dev that shifts blame to anyone but themselves.
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sublinear
6 minutes ago
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Do you have a suggestion how else to handle the situation I described?
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hobs
6 minutes ago
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From the perspective of the devs, they have a responsibility for saying something literally wont fly anywhere, ever, saying the business is responsible for every bad decision is a complete abrogation of your responsibilities.
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sublinear
1 minute ago
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Why don't you tell your boss or team something like that and see how well that flies.

Ultimately things are on a deadline and the devs must meet requirements where the priority is not performance. It says nothing about their ability to write performant code. It says everything about where you work.

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Joel_Mckay
7 minutes ago
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In general, how people communicate internally and with the public is important.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conway's_law

Have a wonderful day =3

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galphanet
28 minutes ago
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This is just the top of the iceberg. Don't get me started on airlines websites (looking at you Air Canada), where the product owner, designers, developers are not able to get a simple workflow straight without loading Mb of useless javascript and interrupt the user journey multiple times. Give me back the command line terminal like Amadeus, that would be perfect.

How can we go back to a Web where websites are designed to be used by the user and not for the shareholders?

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ngruhn
2 minutes ago
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> Don't get me started on airlines websites

You can't beat China Southern . They have the most dog shit website I've ever seen. The flight was fine but I gave up doing online check in after 3 attempts. Never mind the bloat: - half the text is randomly in Chinese even if you select English - required text fields with wrong or missing labels. Maybe just a placeholder that you can't fully read because the field has not enough width and the placeholder disappears once you start typing. - makes you go through multi step seat selection process only to tell you at the end that seat selection is not possible anymore. - signed up with email; logged out and went back to the SAME login page; now sign up via phone number is required!?

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userbinator
7 minutes ago
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How can we go back to a Web where websites are designed to be used by the user and not for the shareholders?

Loudly oppose the trendchasing devs who have been brainwashed into the "newer is better" mindset by Big Tech. I'm sure the shareholders would want to reduce the amount they spend on server/bandwidth costs and doing "development and maintenance" too.

Simple HTML forms can already make for a very usable and cheap site, yet a whole generation of developers have been fed propaganda about how they need to use JS for everything.

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bigfatkitten
25 minutes ago
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> How can we go back to a Web where websites are designed to be used by the user and not for the shareholders?

Or for developers to pad their CV.

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niccl
15 minutes ago
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Sadly, I think the only answer is some other form of payment than ad clicks. I've no idea what that could be, though.
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hilbert42
40 minutes ago
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These days the NYT is in a race to the bottom. I no longer even bother to bypass ads let alone read the news stories because of its page bloat and other annoyances. It's just not worth the effort.

Surely news outlets like the NYT must realize that savvy web surfers like yours truly when encountering "difficult" news sites—those behind firewalls and or with megabytes of JavaScript bloat—will just go elsewhere or load pages without JavaScript.

We'll simply cut the headlines from the offending website and past it into a search engine and find another site with the same or similar info but with easier access.

I no longer think about it as by now my actions are automatic. Rarely do I find an important story that's just limited to only one website, generally dozens have the story and because of syndication the alternative site one selects even has identical text and images.

My default browsing is with JavaScript defaulted to "off" and it's rare that I have to enable it (which I can do with just one click).

I never see Ads on my Android phone or PC and that includes YouTube. Disabling JavaScript on webpages nukes just about all ads, they just vanish, any that escape through are then trapped by other means. In ahort, ads are optional. (YouTube doesn't work sans JS, so just use NewPipe or PipePipe to bypass ads.)

Disabling JavaScript also makes pages blindingly fast as all that unnecessary crap isn't loaded. Also, sans JS it's much harder for websites to violate one's privacy and sell one's data.

Do I feel guilty about skimming off info in this manner? No, not the slightest bit. If these sites played fair then it'd be a different matter but they don't. As they act like sleazebags they deserve to be treated as such.

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keane
5 minutes ago
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It’s hard to beat https://lite.cnn.com and https://text.npr.org (I imagine their own employees likely use these as well) or https://newsminimalist.com
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appreciatorBus
17 minutes ago
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> Surely news outlets like the NYT must realize that savvy web surfers like yours truly when encountering "difficult" news sites—those behind firewalls and or with megabytes of JavaScript bloat—will just go elsewhere or load pages without JavaScript.

No.

"savvy" web surfers are a rounding error in global audience terms. Vast majorities of web users, whether paying subscribers to a site like NYT or not, have no idea what a megabyte is, nor what javascript is, nor why they might want to care about either. The only consideration is whether the site has content they want to consume and whether or not it loads. It's true that a double digit % are using ad blockers, but they aren't doing this out of deep concerns about Javascript complexity.

Do what you have to do, but no one at the NYT is losing any sleep over people like us.

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CalRobert
27 minutes ago
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Do you think youtube will continue to make it possible to use alternate clients, or eventually go the way of e.g. Netflix with DRM so you're forced to use their client and watch ads?
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curtisblaine
2 minutes ago
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Big tech will slowly enforce "secure browsing" and "secure OS" in a way that will make it impossible to browse the web without a signed executable approved by them. DRM is just a temporary stopgap.
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alpinisme
26 minutes ago
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What does playing fair mean in this context? It would be one thing if you were a paid subscriber complaining that even paying sucks so you left, but it sounds like you’re not.
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hilbert42
10 minutes ago
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I'd like to answer that in detail but it's impractical to do so here as it'd take pages. As a starter though begin with them not violating users' privacy.

Another quick point: my observation is that the worse the ad problem the lower quality the content is. Cory Doctorow's "enshitification" encapsulates the problems in a nutshell.

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curtisblaine
7 minutes ago
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You're right, it means nothing. But it cuts two ways. These sites are sending me bytes and I choose which bytes I visualize (via an ad blocker). Any expectation the website has about how I consume the content has no meaning and it's entirely their problem.
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zahlman
9 minutes ago
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This site more or less practices what it preaches. `newsbanner.webp` is 87.1KB (downloaded and saved; the Network tab in Firefox may report a few times that and I don't know why); the total image size is less than a meg and then there's just 65.6KB of HTML and 15.5 of CSS.

And it works without JavaScript... but there does appear to be some tracking stuff. A deferred call out to Cloudflare, a hit counter I think? and some inline stuff at the bottom that defers some local CDN thing the old-fashioned way. Noscript catches all of this and I didn't feel like allowing it in order to weigh it.

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h4ch1
42 minutes ago
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This rubbish also exists disproportionately for recipe pages/cooking websites as well.

You have 20 ads scattered around, an autoplaying video of some random recipe/ad, 2-3 popups to subscribe, buy some affiliated product and then the author's life story and then a story ABOUT the recipe before I am able to see the detailed recipe in the proper format.

It's second nature to open all these websites in reader mode for me atp.

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jopsen
36 minutes ago
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Good sites do exist. It's just that they drown.
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h4ch1
22 minutes ago
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True, these ad heavy cooking sites also dabble extensively in SEOmaxxing their way to the top.
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decimalenough
48 minutes ago
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This is why people continue to lament Google Reader (and RSS in general): it was a way to read content on your own terms, without getting hijacked by ads.
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bot403
3 minutes ago
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Why lament it? I've been using Inoreader for over a decade after Google Reader went away. And I gladly pay for it year after year.
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Cyphase
40 minutes ago
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RSS and feed readers still exist! All hope is not lost.
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fsflover
40 minutes ago
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People should stop lamenting Google Reader and start using RSS. There are numerous threads about it on HN, e.g., https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45459233
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bergheim
6 minutes ago
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What on earth do you have to rely on alphabet, an ad company, to read rss for? there are many other options, that are not made by an ad company.

Google Reader was never the answer. It's such a shame that people even here don't realize that relying on Google for that had interests at odds - and you weren't part of the equation at all.

Well, except for your data. You didn't give them enough data. So they shut down shop. Gmail though, ammirite? :D

Yeah I wonder why gmail was not one of the shut down products /s

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ray023
40 minutes ago
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I think it's a GOOD thing, actually. Because all these publications a dying anyway. And even if your filter out all the ad and surveillance trash, you are left with trash propaganda and brain rot content. Like why even make the effort of filtering out the actual text from some "journalist" from these propaganda outlets. It's not even worth it.

If people tune out only because how horrible the sites are, good.

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mvrckhckr
34 minutes ago
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Only major media can get away with this kind of bloat. For the normal website, Google would never include you in the SERPs even if your page is a fraction of that size.
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throwatdem12311
22 minutes ago
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49mb web page? Try a 45mb graphql response.
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napolux
39 minutes ago
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and the NYT web team was praised as one of the best in the world some (many?) years ago.
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keane
10 minutes ago
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gnabgib
25 minutes ago
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Some of them are good (formerly Richard Harris - Svelte[0]) some of them should stop podcasting.

[0]: https://svelte.dev/

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Crowberry
25 minutes ago
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I hate this trend of active distraction. Most blogs have a popup asking you to subscribe as soon as you start scrolling.

It’s as if everyone designed their website around the KPI of irritating your visitors and getting them to leave ASAP.

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Bratmon
51 minutes ago
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Maybe I'm just getting old, but I've gotten tired of these "Journalists shouldn't try to make their living by finding profitable ads, they should just put in ads that look pretty but pay almost nothing and supplement their income by working at McDonalds" takes.
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ronsor
48 minutes ago
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Well, I'm going to block the ads anyway (or just leave), so if they're trying to find profitable ads, they may need to revise their strategy.
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jdross
41 minutes ago
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“I’m going to either steal your work in a way you don’t consent to, or not consume it” isn’t really great. The alternative is paywalls
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zoklet-enjoyer
33 minutes ago
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Much of their work consists of poorly sourced articles, sensationalism, disinformation, and bias to sway the audience.
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decimalenough
46 minutes ago
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I'm pretty sure people would read more and click on more ads if they didn't have to endure waiting for 49 MB of crap and then navigating a pop-up obstacle course for each article.
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scared_together
25 minutes ago
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In the case of the New York Times, they have subscriptions and many are willing to pay for their work - but their subscriptions are not ad-free.
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neya
39 minutes ago
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This argument is valid if journalism was actually journalism instead of just ripping off trending stories from HN and Reddit and rehashing it with sloppy AI and calling it a day and putting in 4 lines of text buried inside 400 ads.
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pibaker
36 minutes ago
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I don't like the state of journalism either but you realize this is a vicious cycle, no? People not paying for news (by buying newspaper, or more importantly paying for classified ads) leading to low quality online reporting leading to people not wanting to pay for online news.
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bsjshshsb
44 minutes ago
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49MB or homelessness? There is surely other options.
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hilbert42
21 minutes ago
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Solution, see my post. ;-)
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