The pleasures of poor product design
179 points
by NaOH
13 hours ago
| 25 comments
| inconspicuous.info
| HN
ancillary
2 hours ago
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I found this bit interesting:

> Basically, one reason I’ve lost a lot of will to do anything is because of AI’s existence, and I don’t want to use it. Because I have zero personal time, zero time whatsoever to do anything, so sometimes I’m thinking, “Oh, I could do this task or that task so much faster if I used AI,” but I don’t want to use AI, so then I don’t want to do the task at all. So I don’t have the time to sit down and model something because I know there is a faster way, but I don’t want to use the faster way, so the thing doesn’t get done.

I'm not completely sure, but I think her reasoning is that AI made it a lot easier for random people to just have the idea and translate it into an image in a minute or two, and this cheapens the whole experience for her, to the point that it no longer seems worth doing.

It's sort of a funny point. I think most painters are happy that they don't have to go out and grind up snails to make their own purple pigment, but are perhaps less happy if somebody can produce a painting indistinguishable from their own effort with no manual handwork skill at all. It's like there's a minimum threshold of human skill and investment for an object to be interesting beyond its pure functionality, and functionality has little to do with art (but a lot to do with, say, software).

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Aurornis
49 minutes ago
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A similar thing happened in the early days of 3D printing. When hobbyist 3D printing started you needed to be skilled and tenacious enough to build a 3D printer and tune it well enough to print.

Then as companies like Prusa and later Bambu made 3D printing more and more accessible to the masses there was a subgroup of 3D printing fans who were unhappy about the change. They lost interest in the hobby. Some became bitter and spent their time finding things to complain about on Reddit and other forums instead of enjoying their printing.

Logically, enabling other people to produce something shouldn’t subtract from others’ enjoyment of their own hobbies. Many still do woodworking with hand tools even though we can buy factory furniture now.

I think some people are more interested in seeking status and doing things for personal branding reasons than the joy of the hobby itself. For that group, any advancement that makes it easier for other people to do something similar to what they do (even if lesser quality, as is often the case with AI) it interferes with their ability to use that hobby for status. They carved out a niche as the person who did something rare or semi-unique, but making that thing accessible to more people took that away. So their motivation wanes.

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taneq
45 seconds ago
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This reminds me of the time I really wanted an FT-86 (Toyota low end sports car). I spent ages researching them and reading reviews and stuff. Then they started to get popular and I’d see them everywhere and I kinda didn’t want one anymore.

I described this to a friend and he turned to me, shocked, and said “you’re a sports car hipster!” And I’ve never been quite the same since.

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angiolillo
35 minutes ago
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> I think most painters are happy that they don't have to go out and grind up snails to make their own purple pigment

People who loved mixing colors enough to become experts may have been disappointed when their hard-won skills were rendered obsolete by the march of progress.

There are some aspects of my work that are enjoyable on their own and others that I only do because they're necessary overhead to achieve a desired result. I appreciate technology that eliminates the latter but lament technology that eliminates the former.

So when AI obsoletes yet another human skill I suspect a lot of the wildly different emotional responses are dependent on whether someone considers the skill being obsoleted more "enjoyable" or "necessary overhead".

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secondcoming
26 minutes ago
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My first thought is that this is a sign of burn-out.
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heliumtera
1 hour ago
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You assumed it is about effort, and not quality.

Are you aware that without explanation you just assumed things can be achieved with less effort without quality degradation?

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PaulHoule
1 hour ago
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There's a certain kind of bad taste that goes with AI art like there was with NFTs.

Oddly a few months ago somebody who was a few years too late DMed me on Tumblr to say he wanted to make NFTs of my photos. I played it cool and eventually asked him "which ones do you want?" which got him to pick the last 5 I posted which proves he isn't even looking.

Nextdoor for a nearby city lately has been spammed my somebody who makes AI slop videos with senseless motion like a bad Instagram Reel about our police department (he's black but seems to love the blue) -- at least he has some sense of praising vs dissing people but to people like that there is not difference between beautiful and ugly, good and bad, just ceaseless motion that never stops.

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adrian_b
3 hours ago
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Such badly designed products are easy to spot by visual inspection.

Unfortunately, if you go shopping in a supermarket or online, you can find a huge amount of bad products that look like they were well designed, but in reality some of their parts are made from wrong materials, and you discover this only at home, after using them for a few months, or for a few days, or even after a few minutes.

For instance, I have seen devices where pressure-regulating springs were not made of spring steel, but of ordinary steel and they lost their elasticity after a very short time, making the device unusable, water buckets supposedly made of stainless steel that were actually made of chromated steel, which rusted at joints after a few months and a lot of diverse devices where parts that suffer cyclical stresses are not make of a fatigue-resistant material, so they break after a short time of use.

There are countless examples of this kind and all have this problem that you cannot detect visually if the correct materials are used, or not, like you can recognize an inappropriate shape.

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AriedK
7 hours ago
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This gets quite close to chindogu, the Japanese art of designing objects that kind of serve a very niche purpose, but then without being useful. https://www.tofugu.com/japan/chindogu-japanese-inventions/
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TeMPOraL
4 hours ago
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Funny how some of those ideas are obviously useful, some I even see in stores... and then turns out the selfie stick is an example too, which makes one question the whole categorization.
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ChrisMarshallNY
5 hours ago
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I like the iPhone Control Center screenshot in there…
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cucumber3732842
3 hours ago
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I would spend an extra $0.20/lb if my butter came in a stick (though I think the form factor should emulate deodorant and not chapstick) and would shamelessly rock the umbrella tie.
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Nevermark
5 hours ago
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i need a roller desk EV.
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ChrisMarshallNY
11 hours ago
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I’ve always enjoyed the “useless teapot” that Don Norman has on the cover of DOET: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61KtiLw7BtL...
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userbinator
9 hours ago
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If the cap is screwed on and sealed, you should pour it from the side like a bottle of oil: https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/attachments/technical-stuff/1...
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kakacik
2 hours ago
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I guess you use different types of teapots, the ones I ever saw were definitely not waterproof, nothing to screw. Maybe some small lip to keep it in place but when put on the side they would probably fall off, pouring hot liquid everywhere.
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drfloyd51
10 hours ago
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I believe it is actually called: The masochist’s teapot.

I recommend this book to anyone remotely interested in design. Even today it is fantastic.

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ChrisMarshallNY
8 hours ago
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Reading it was a watershed in my life.

I never look at doors, without evaluating their usability, anymore.

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al_borland
8 hours ago
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I bought a new door for my house recently. When the salesman asked what type handle/knob I wanted, I had a bit of an internal crisis. The one he said post people got seemed like it would create a Norman door, which I desperately wanted to avoid. I ended up getting a standard knob to avoid being the absolute lunatic who spent 6 hours debating the merits of various door handles, but had I been alone, I would have absolutely done that. I still feel like I made a mistake every time I look at my door.

The book was a gift and a curse.

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PaulHoule
1 hour ago
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bluGill
3 hours ago
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yeah, the book is something that people hate me having read. I know it wasn't my mistake and I tell them that.

as for door handles, most manufactures use interchangaple knobs so you can buy two and swap. You end up with a useless mechinism (i find you rarely can find a different door that needs the reverse handle)

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bcherry
12 hours ago
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this really reminds me of the "worst volume control" from reddit https://uxdesign.cc/the-worst-volume-control-ui-in-the-world...
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ancillary
2 hours ago
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The "cannon" one is maybe the funniest thing I've seen on the internet in months. It almost makes me want to add autoplaying music to my own website, just to add that too.
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userbinator
10 hours ago
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IC: With AI getting bigger and more controversial and so on, have you used AI to create any of these designs?

That is an interesting point to bring up, because this type of "almost but not quite right" is exactly what AI seems to naturally create.

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Gigachad
9 hours ago
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I think the difference is AI images tend to create mush or impossible geometry. The ideas here where a minimal change to the design renders the item entirely unusable takes a fair bit of creativity.
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sehugg
2 hours ago
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You can see some of these objects at Musée des Arts et Métiers: https://www.arts-et-metiers.net/musee/les-objets-inconfortab...
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Noe2097
7 hours ago
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"what if objects were actually designed for a bad user experience, instead of a good one? she recalled in a 2018 TED talk. That was my ‘eureka’ moment."

Or, she stumbled upon some article or the very Wikipedia page about it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chind%C5%8Dgu

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jeisc
4 hours ago
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for the record, I am a furniture designer class 1985 Primrose Center and I made a table without a top to demonstrate this point: https://www.jeisch.com/img/furniture/tab_no_top_1988.jpg and another one which is a table which is a holder for a painting: https://www.jeisch.com/img/furniture/tab_pointy_1987.jpg the painting which is being held in the pointy table is this: https://www.jeisch.com/img/paintings/oil_martyr_1988.jpg but it slides in and out basically it is a horizontal holder a painting.
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nayroclade
58 minutes ago
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I’m pretty sure I’ve used cutlery pretty close to this in some hipster restaurants.
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Gigachad
11 hours ago
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I love that these are all fairly beautiful, stuff you'd really love to have if it wasn't fundamentally unusable.
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TimByte
4 hours ago
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It really highlights how much we associate "good design" with aesthetics first, even though function is doing most of the heavy lifting
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Incipient
7 hours ago
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I feel like I've seen some of these designs a VERY long time ago? Is this something old that the person was just interviewed on recently?
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benrutter
5 hours ago
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Yes! (The article says the project started a while back but the writer/interviewer only just discovered it)
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Cthulhu_
7 hours ago
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It does do the rounds on the various social medias on the regular. The website looks interesting enough at least.
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wvbdmp
4 hours ago
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It’s been on HM a couple of times, first in 2017:

https://news.ycombinator.com/from?site=theuncomfortable.com

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el_pollo_diablo
4 hours ago
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This reminds me of Jacques Carelman's Catalogue d'objets introuvables. Highly recommended. It has already been mentioned on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9789216
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lelanthran
8 hours ago
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This is a link to the interview. here is a link to the products website: https://www.theuncomfortable.com/#
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whiteboardr
8 hours ago
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It's missing the Magic Mouse.
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ProllyInfamous
6 hours ago
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Or the M4 Mini power button...

on the bottom (both) WHY?

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anonymous344
9 hours ago
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as a designer and innovator, i appriciete this. this gives me ideas really out of box, just to see these. amazing!

i also do this for ui and app logic: go to some Microslop service, they are all like these...sad but true

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jrmg
11 hours ago
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Now I’m wondering how you could create ‘uncomfortable’ versions of simple command line tools (ls, cat, more etc.) or perhaps shells.

Emacs and/or vi, depending on your inclination, have text editors covered already, of course ;-)

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cmehdy
1 hour ago
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Require interactivity (ask for confirmation on cat).

Output success error codes in unexpected range (see: robocopy).

Use special characters to try TUI things but leave the buffer in weird states.

Have many input params, and default to the most useless ones when nothing is passed. Make some params unnecessarily required.

Go on very long tangents for no reason in the manpage, but keep your -h message as just the list of badly named params.

Use stderr as your stdout.

---- I present to you worse-cat:

wcat notes.txt

error: --encoding is required. Exiting.

wcat --encoding=utf-8 notes.txt

┌─────────────────────────────────┐

│ About to display: notes.txt │

│ Are you sure? [y/N/maybe]: │

└─────────────────────────────────┘

y

stdout: ≈3 paragraphs

stderr: [file content]

echo $?

212

(I'll save you the manpage and worse-ls)

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II2II
10 hours ago
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Well, bash offers vi and Emacs as editing modes. We're already covered on that front. Many of the parameters for ls are cryptic, making it awkward to use for anything other than routine tasks without referencing the man page. more is so limited that many people choose to use a program used to concatenation files (cat) as a file viewer. Those who don't want to reach for their mouse to use their terminal's scrollbar buffer will use less, since it does more than more. Don't bother parsing that last sentence with bison, unless you have a yacc to shave.
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xtiansimon
2 hours ago
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Easier to find uncomfortable websites. Back in the 90s with all the Flash, lots of peeps said these sites made them uncomfortable because they couldn’t figure out how to do anything. Couldn’t figure out the navigation.

I instantly recalled a site from this era and amazeballs it’s still there! Superbad.com All hail!

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simonask
3 hours ago
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The lowest-key example of this is tools that enforce a particular order of arguments, or where the order of arguments carries semantic meaning. It's the worst. Please don't make me put the file name last, or first. You don't know which part of the command I'm tweaking.
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anonymous344
9 hours ago
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jus used new ubuntu instead of ifconfig (weird name) it had ip couldnt figure from the help how to get actually show the ip

so linux is already there

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lelanthran
8 hours ago
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Yeah, Linux has been trending to incomprehensible commands.

In terms of usability, moving to FreeBSD from Linux is quite a positive experience. Pity that hardware and software support is limited on the BSDs.

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TimByte
4 hours ago
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This is a fun idea
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al_borland
8 hours ago
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Feed all command output through AI to summarize the results instead of actually giving the results.

Results from ls would be a few sentences explaining the types of files in the directory. Add a -l on there and it will give you a general overview of the permissions and size of the files. Ex. “These are rather large files that are primarily, but not exclusively, limited to root.”

Results from cat would give a summary of the file. You’d get the same results, with some degree of randomness from more and less as well.

Using any command with sudo would provide the same type of results, but in all caps.

Trying to pipe commands together would be a slop multiplier.

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bsjshshsb
7 hours ago
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Use an agent for all CLI work.
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eszed
11 hours ago
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What's wrong about the glasses? I've been staring at them and trying to figure out why they're unworkable, as opposed to just a quirky pair of specs.
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jaden
10 hours ago
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The sharp angle of the bridge would dig into your nose.
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parallel
11 hours ago
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Pointy bit on the bridge of the nose.
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starmole
11 hours ago
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the sharp point on the bridge is going to hurt your snout.
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anonymous344
9 hours ago
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you don't have glasses ever, i guess?
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camillomiller
6 hours ago
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The glasses would be great for pool playing, as they would sit higher on your line of sight :)
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indersonlms51
1 hour ago
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saved for later. exactly the kind of deep dive i was looking for
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TimByte
4 hours ago
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This is such a great reminder that "good design" is mostly invisible until it breaks
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imp0cat
7 hours ago
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The funny thing is that the toothbrush would actually come in handy for cleaning stuff other than teeth.

For example, the inner water tank of a robotic vacuum.

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qy-mj
3 hours ago
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What kinds of terrible product designs have you seen?
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keithnz
12 hours ago
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given the title, so may software developers must be living in bliss! /s
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abstractspoon
7 hours ago
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All seems very contrived. Not what I would call creative
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