▲There was a period of like 2 years when I was a kid where chuck Norris jokes were all the rage on the playground and I made an iPhone app that listed them all.
Jokes like “Chuck Norris is able to slam a revolving door.”
Anyway, I “built” this stupid app when I was like 13, copy-pasted like 300 jokes in there and a random one would show every time you tapped the screen.
Chuck Norris’s estate blocked the app from going live. I wish I had printed that rejection out and framed it.
It was so funny how that whole thing happened.
For the first time in over a decade he was suddenly relevant in a way. People remembered he existed, and they were playing off his tough guy image.
And what did he do? Try and shut it down and start suing people. Stupid.
It took him a couple of years to come around to it. If it wasn’t for those jokes would he be remembered anywhere as well? Or would he be a much more obscure celebrity by now?
> would he be remembered anywhere as well?
You underestimate how popular Walker, Texas Ranger was. It wasn't pulling ratings like Seinfeld, ER, or Friends, but it was a solid primetime staple for almost a decade.
I never watched it myself, but the 50+ demo loved it.
PoignardAzur6 hours ago
[-] Maybe for people in the US. Internationally? I haven't watched a single episode of WTR, I don't know anyone who has, but everyone knows who Chuck Norris was.
reply▲In France, it was popular enough that everybody knew Texas ranger before the Chuck Norris jokes.
reply▲riffraff32 minutes ago
[-] Same in Italy, it was prime time TV for a few years.
Not overly popular, but many people already knew him from the Bruce Lee era, so it had a following by default.
CalChris11 minutes ago
[-] So Chuck Norris is an Anna Kournikova, famous for having been moderately famous and monetized ad infinitum?
reply▲I'm Swedish and I was only vaguely aware Chuck Norris even had a career outside the jokes.
reply▲Belgian here, only thing I ever watched that had Chuck in it was Way of the Dragon.
reply▲Seinfeld wasn't at all well known in Italy when I lived there, but WTR was.
reply▲riffraff31 minutes ago
[-] IIRC Seinfeld aired on Tele Montecarlo/La 7, while WTR aired on Italia 1, the difference in audience was massive.
reply▲As a gent born and raised in Texas, and has never seen the show - I am pleasantly surprised to see these comments about how popular WTR was internationally. If I had been asked to bet, I would have lost money on this one.
reply▲As others have said, WTR is very well-known in France while most people have never heard of Seinfeld.
Same with Dallas and The Dukes of Hazzard.
Assuming this sort of phenomenon extends further than France, this quite well explains many of the misconceptions Europeans have about the US.
Thinking WTR, Dallas, or TDoH are representative of American culture is... hilarious.
But I guess shows that hit the big American cultural stereotypes hard are maybe the ones that do better abroad?
riffraff28 minutes ago
[-] I think Hazard didn't sound stereotype at all, like, nobody had a clue why the car was called General Lee, or what the confederate flag meant.
It was just a fun show. Magnum PI, Different Strokes, McGiver.. were just as popular.
karel-3d28 minutes ago
[-] From my memory from the 90s: Baywatch, X-Files, that speaking car one, Beverly Hills 90210, Ninja Turtles. Some dumb sitcom named Step by Step? edit: oh and ALF
Oh and Married with Children, but it was always very late night and I was not allowed to watch it.
And our teacher always played us ET on VHS. (and that dog playing basketball.)
that's america for me when I was a kid
Yeah. As an American I would’ve absolutely never guessed it was that popular.
reply▲I've got the impression that the big US exports are ones that play into big American stereotypes, e.g WTR, Baywatch, Friends. Not even that they see these shows and get programmed with these stereotypes, but that they have these stereotypes (Texas, California, NYC) and shows like this feed their imaginations and give them detail.
Exported media is weird. Like the huge proportion of British/BBC output (usually period, but also often detective in a way redolent of Christie) that is made primarily for export to foreign consumers who think of British upper-class culture as aspirational.
There is US exported media that just randomly becomes popular in a specific demographic. Case in point: Adventures of Ford Fairlane, a flick with Andrew Dice Clay that got a razzie the year it came out. IIRC it got a cult following in Norway because the voice over was done by a popular radio DJ.
reply▲> Maybe for people in the US. Internationally?
It was big internationally. But the jokes made Norris known to a whole different generation than the one watching WTR.
I loved WTR as a child in Spain! (This was like 15 years ago tho)
reply▲Czechs love Chuck Norris and WTR. It aired between 1995 and 2012. The series is still occasionally rerun.
reply▲It was extremely popular in Russian-speaking areas in the late 90s.
reply▲sharyphil49 minutes ago
[-] Yes! Oldfagi remember.
Also, he was just called "Cool Walker", which was appropriate.
reply▲karel-3d37 minutes ago
[-] It was very popular here (Czech Republic). Not prime-time popular, but popular enough.
reply▲In Spain it was on the TV also for like a decade, and everybody knows who he is. Also in France.
reply▲Haven't watched it and first time hearing about it too. But I knew who Chuck Norris was.
reply▲I watched it all the time in Canada.
reply▲Lies. Everyone knows The Red Green Show is the only television program legally allowed in Canada.
reply▲It was quite popular in France.
reply▲Huuuuuuuuge in South Africa.
reply▲Personally I was at a prime age watching a lot of Conan O'Brien's Late Night show and one of his best skits was the Walker Texas Ranger Lever. They would pick the most ridiculous clips from the show and just run them out of context. IIRC Chuck Norris even showed up on the show one time to give him a "stern talking to".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpIEyn9G6_8Also, he fought Bruce Lee! One of my favorite face-offs ever filmed, esp in the martial arts movie genre. Not many actors who could say that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlTyJhbTxxo&pp=ygUZY2h1Y2sgb...
Any person from South Africa from that era will have a certain tv announcement permanently etched in their memories. It goes something like:
"Friday night is action night with Walker Texas Ranger"
UncleOxidant4 hours ago
[-] The only time I ever saw Walker,Texas Ranger was when I was living in Italy for a few months in the aughts. It was dubbed in Italian. Apparently it was popular there.
reply▲Never heard about this series in France. I discovered him through the jokes. I am 55
reply▲I loved that show! I was a teenager. Peak 1990s.
reply▲And he would be known by those people. I remember him being famous in the 90s.
Would the people who grew up in the early 2000s, or especially 2010s, know much of anything about him?
I mean how much do younger people know about Scott Baio or the Corys or Candice Bergen these days?
You might be able to argue he was a bigger star than any of them.
His career lasted far longer. He had big movie appearances for 30 years, none of those people accomplished that.
Norris' first movie role was in 1968, first big credited appearance was 1972, Walker Texas Ranger finished in 2001.
> You might be able to argue he was a bigger star than any of them.
I think that's a hard argument to make.
Candace Bergen's career was just as long. Her first movie role was 1966, she was nominated for an Oscar in 1979, and she was on a popular sitcom from 1988 to 1998 that won her five Emmies and attracted national commentary after criticism from the Vice President.
I was a kid in the 80s and 90s and to me even then Chuck Norris was a B-movie self-parody joke character. He was not an A-list "action star" in the sense that Schwarzenegger, Stallone, or even Van Damme were.
spencerflem6 hours ago
[-] Haha haven’t heard of either of those but I do know that when Chuck Norris does pushups he pushes the Earth down
reply▲The dude was a badass, 6 time undefeated karate world champion (!!!), created his own variant of karate mixed with korean martial arts, was a good friend with Bruce Lee and that scene in Colloseum - probably the coolest thing I saw as a kid growing up behind iron curtain... not many actors can have such a resume on top of their acting career.
Those who cared would/will know him regardless. But obviously those people would be relatively few and far apart.
An immense amount of time, dedication and talent must have went into all those achievements. This requires mastery of body and mind at an exceptional level. Putting aside all jokes and acting roles, the martials arts is where he earned my full respect and that will also stick in my memory about him.
reply▲He had is own line of denims, with extra stretchy crotches. Makes roundhouse kicking baddies in the face easier.
reply▲Chuck Norris made a Chuck Norris joke in one of the Expendable movies, and for that I'm willing to forgive all his indiscretions.
reply▲That is hands down one of my ATF scenes in any movie. Expendables 2 was IMO just about the most "fun" movie I've ever seen as well. It wasn't great cinema, or a specific classic.. but it was fun. I have similar feelings about Gremlins 2 as well. We need more fun movies, but too many people seem to have not been issued a sense of humor these days.
reply▲X1 is also great imo. Just the perfect blend of action, self awareness and cheese.
reply▲> And what did he do? Try and shut it down and start suing people. Stupid.
Isn't that an obligation when you own a trademark? That you sue people, or else you may lose the trademark?
> Isn't that an obligation when you own a trademark? That you sue people, or else you may lose the trademark?
It's not quite as cut and dry as you suggest. Besides, in which way was a trademark being violated? Last I knew merely talking about and referencing a celebrity by name was not a trademark violation.
Found out about his passing from my teenage kids. They knew him as some legendary tough guy based solely on the jokes, but had no idea who he actually was. To be fair, looking at some other comments here about his political and personal leanings, I didn't know who he actually was either.
reply▲Chuck Norris was and is still an international sensation. Chuck Norris is right up there with Arnold Schwarzenegger and Jean Claude Van Damme.
His round kick, Walker Texas Ranger and his fight with Bruce Lee. In Africa, to this day, some TV channels still play his stuff.
observationist5 hours ago
[-] His proximity to Bruce Lee earned him more or less permanent kung fu cinema fame. Walker,Texas Ranger and other work he did definitely boosted it, but the memes clinched it.
reply▲block_dagger1 hour ago
[-] If it weren’t…subjunctive mood. Sorry, it’s Pedantic Friday in my small world.
reply▲This post certainly wouldn't be here right now.
reply▲Maybe not as well, but between the "Walker gave me aids" clip and Conan's Walker Texas Ranger lever, he'd still have been known well enough.
reply▲The quote is “Walker says I have AIDS”
reply▲>> If it wasn’t for those jokes would he be remembered anywhere as well?
You’re assuming the jokes make people dive deeper. In reality I know the jokes and didn’t have a clue who he was and never cared enough to find out. The reality is the probably didn’t make much of a difference to how well he or his work was actually known.
No, I didn’t mean it that way. I meant they wouldn’t even know the name.
Not that they actually know about him past the tough guy persona of the jokes.
The Ruby gem "Faker" is used for generating fake data for testing, like legit-looking names, emails, phone numbers, lorum ipsum text, etc. About 10 years ago I was working on a messaging app, and wanted some real messages to see in the UI while I was developing it. One of the best engineering decisions I've made in my career was to pick the Chuck Norris Facts generator for the messages, so every time I re-seeded my local db or looked at a review app on staging, I was greeted by two fake people sending a half-dozen Chuck Norris facts to each other.
https://github.com/faker-ruby/faker/blob/main/lib/locales/en...
The "slam a revolving door" one was absolutely one of my favorites. Also "Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups; he pushes the Earth down".
reply▲I'm pretty sure they were all the rage when _I_ was at school, but that was long before the iPhone.
I'm curious on what grounds they blocked the app.
PurpleRamen6 hours ago
[-] > I'm curious on what grounds they blocked the app.
The app probably used his pictures or his name, which are easy candidates for copyright or trademark-claims.
Mentioned below in a few comments but it was on the grounds of using his name/likeness.
reply▲(Not the parent poster) I found out about them in 2008-2009, and they were quite popular online and offline.
reply▲If you're curious, maybe you can look into Chuck's lawsuit against Penguin's book of Chuck Norris facts. He would eventually "co-author" his own book. The obvious guess here is trademark infringement (over use of Chuck's name/likeness) and/or copyright (if some of these facts were lifted from his book).
reply▲Interesting. I get the likeness thing, but surely one could publish jokes about anyone they wish and that would be satire or fair use or something?
Facts and copyright is an interesting one, because I'm surprised a fact can be copyrighted, unless it's the wording specifically.
For better or worse, in the US you can pretty much sue anyone for anything. A court certainly requires more evidence to declare liability than Apple would to remove an app.
As far as copywriting facts, are you really under the impression that Chuck Norris is the only man who can factually slam a revolving door? :)
Jeff Dean got his Chuck Norris app published by Chuck Norris.
reply▲I knew of "Walker, Texas Ranger" but the jokes definitely kept him relevant to my generation (age: 49) for a resurgent period of time.
The only one I remember offhand:
"Chuck Norris doesn't do pushups, he pushes the world down."
The expendables had a scene that was basically the meme in live action, highly recommend. It’s all over YouTube.
reply▲That scene makes the movie one of the few 10/10 movies in my opinion. It's perfect for the target audience.
Seeing my dad, who grew up on these actors' action flicks, laugh himself to tears when Chuck Norris appears is one of my favourite memories.
I printed out all the jokes on my dad's home office printer and sold copies at school. This was pre smartphones.
reply▲John Wick wears Chuck Norris pajamas. RIP to a legend.
reply▲AdmiralAsshat6 hours ago
[-] Was this before or after Mike Huckabee started publicly offering Chuck Norris as his solution to "border security" on the campaign trail?
reply▲In India, we have Rajni (Rajnikanth) jokes that keep increasing in number and are still pretty popular...
I remember reading 'The Vinci Code' in college which was very popular those days and getting a SMS from a friend almost the same day, "Rajnikanth gave Monalisa that smile!".
I did something similar when Microsoft gave away Windows Phones for every app published on the app store. I used the Chuck Norris API though. The one I used is sadly no longer available (I think it was called CNDB). But there's a new one:
https://api.chucknorris.ioOnly God could defeat Chuck Norris.
reply▲Well, that remains to be seen
reply▲His estate? While he was still alive?
reply▲make_it_sure5 hours ago
[-] i created a Facebook App that did something similar, it posted random jokes on your wall
This was like 2005-2006
In had one app like that from Cydia
Loved it.
reply▲Having been near the epicenter, I recall that Vin Diesel jokes (same format) pre-dated Chuck Norris ones. I always found it a shame that the Chuck Norris ones caught on; Vin Diesel is, imo, a better role model.
I bet Vin wouldn't have blocked your app.
>
Chuck Norris’s estate blocked the app from going live. I wish I had printed that rejection out and framed it.Seeing the youthful spirit run headfirst into the corprocracy of locked down devices and app stores is depressing. Twenty years ago you would have made a webapp or flash animation, most likely avoided scrutiny and not even been shaken down. Thirty years ago you would have made a QBasic program and floppy/email/dcc it to your friends, completely illegible to the corprocracy. But these days simply trying to publish through the common channels, and you're immediately subject to restrictions made for businesses.
Death had to take Chuck Norris sleeping, for if he had been awake, there would have been a fight.
reply▲Chuck Norris doesn’t sleep. He waits.
reply▲thiagoharry4 hours ago
[-] And yet death was defeated. And with that, Chuck Norris took up its mantle.
reply▲they were better when they were Vin Diesel jokes.
reply▲The Vin Diesel jokes I remember had an absurd quality to them beyond "He's really tough." One I recall fondly was "Vin Diesel writes Donkey Kong Fan Fiction."
reply▲Chuck Norris jokes were making rounds well before Vin Diesel was even born.
reply▲The Chuck Norris fact page that really kicked this all off started as a Vin Diesel fact page.
Most of the original funny Chuck Norris facts were from the original Vin Diesel ones.
The kids today don't know their internet lore. smh.
reply▲moralestapia6 hours ago
[-] Haha, good one.
I will have to steal this one for my upcoming valedictorian speech.
The crowd is going to love it.
plasticsoprano6 hours ago
[-] Except is was said by Vice President Thomas R. Marshall upon Theodore Roosevelt’s death and co-opted as a Chuck Norris joke.
reply▲Teddy Roosevelt was the Chuck Norris of his day. It is appropriate.
reply▲I think that comparison is quite unfair to Teddy, and overly flattering to Chuck Norris.
Historian, sheriff, war hero, governor, explorer, and a successful President who reshaped America largely for the better. While Roosevelt was human, he led a life that very few have ever matched.
That said, the line does fit them both.
Literally saved Football.
reply▲SebastianSosa1 hour ago
[-] All due respect, no comparison, teddy is a real legend not just cinema. Lets not conflate the two. Much love to chuck though.
reply▲It's a kickass obituary, no matter the subject!
reply▲moralestapia6 hours ago
[-] I agree!
It is funny because you usually think of Death as something inevitable and people just accept it but then ... some of these guys put up a fight. Mega-LMAO!
canucker20166 hours ago
[-] from his instagram for his last birthday (
https://www.instagram.com/p/DVtiSHbETbX/ )
I don’t age. I level up.
I’m 86 today! Nothing like some playful action on a sunny day to make you feel young. I’m grateful for another year, good health and the chance to keep doing what I love. Thank you all for being the best fans in the world. Your support through the years has meant more to me than you’ll ever know.
God Bless,
Chuck Norris
Jokes aside, this octogenarian was living his golden years enviably. He was summiting peaks last fall, doing 500 lb barbell curls, and still sparring in his birthday video just 10 days ago. We’ve all gotta go sometime, but the way Chuck Norris went out was the way I’d want to go—able to do it all right up until the end. He was a lot of folks’ childhood hero, but that title is freshly renewed in my eyes. I have new inspiration in my fitness endeavors going forward.
reply▲reply▲reply▲He forgot to actually curl it. Like someone else said, the weights are almost certainly not actually 500lbs. Even elite bodybuilders and strongmen in their prime don't come close to curling 500lbs, let alone an old man.
Looking at the video, if it was legitimate, it would be 585lbs (6 45lb plates on each side plus a 45lb bar), which is even less believable.
threetonesun39 minutes ago
[-] Those are... very fake weights. Or AI. But probably just fake weights.
reply▲He was supposed to die last year, but death took a while to muster the courage to call him.
reply▲Death once had a near-Chuck experience
reply▲Goofy_Coyote6 hours ago
[-] Chuck Norris once slapped Pi so hard it became rational for a moment.
RIP dude, we’d continue the jokes, may your soul laughs as hard as we do.
Chuck Norris once bet 42 is a prime. He won.
ndsipa_pomu3 hours ago
[-] I used to love the Schneierfacts, I mean I still do, but I used to as well.
They were obviously a bit more niche, but that made them funnier to my mind.
> For Bruce Schneier, all zeros of the Riemann zeta function are trivial.
He finally defeated life
reply▲While normally making jokes after a person's death would be socially questionable, in this case Chuck Norris himself loved the Chuck Norris jokes. For me at least, a good sense of humor is maybe the most endearing personality trait. RIP
reply▲reply▲>
Fundamentally, I'd argue that very little should ever be unreasonable or out of bounds to make jokes about; what is important is that it's good humour.On a personal level, I couldn't agree more. I do hope that culturally we get to that point at some time :-)
Wololooo46 minutes ago
[-] I mean, jokes are made to uplift, intent in joking is important and punching up is preferable to punching down, this being said this didn't apply to chuck Norris that would have already got to the punchline without throwing a single fist.
reply▲Giving people reason to laugh while you are old and dying is a superpower. I wish i will have it, too.
reply▲I can only assume Chuck has decided to relieve the grim reaper of his duties, leaving us all here to meet our own end not with a scythe but a roundhouse kick.
reply▲Shades of Piers Anthony's "On a Pale Horse," Death showed up to take Chuck Norris and Chuck killed him, taking his place.
reply▲I loved that series, until the last book. Maybe the novelty had worn off.
It's been a long time since I read it, but didn't the current Death decide to retire and pass the role on?
I had no idea he was in his 80s (older than my parents would be), and that he did Walker, Texas Ranger when he was in his 50s. The final episodes aired when he was 61! That's nuts.
Not a fan of him in real life (based on how he portrayed himself publicly), but I do find his level of physical fitness even more impressive back in the 1990s (and even up until his death), given his age.
I came to the conclusion a long time ago that early browser developers must have really been on quite a lot of drugs.
reply▲And the beast shall come forth surrounded by a roiling cloud of vengeance. The house of the unbelievers shall be razed and they shall be scorched to the earth. Their tags shall blink until the end of days. — from The Book of Mozilla, 12:10
reply▲17 years ago we launched the first "Chuck Norris Facts" app for Android (March 2009). It was a big success until end of 2010 when Chuck Norris sent his lawyers after us to get the app removed from the Android market. Chuck Norris won, we took the app down
reply▲I remember trade chat (/2) in wow on the Medivh server would often turn into Chuck Norris jokes. There were always about how bad ass Chuck was. How tough and impossibly manly.
One of my favorites.
Chuck Norris jumped into a lake. Chuck Norris didn't get wet. The lake got Chucked.
Trade chat (like /b/) was never great, but one of the first WoW addons I developed was designed to filter out garbage like this, and make idling with your guildies in Ironforge tolerable.
It's funny for a while, in measured amounts, and then it becomes tiresome.
Anal [Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker]
reply▲I fear the crime wave as the thugs hear about this and take the streets back. Be careful out there people.
reply▲From Reddit: "I heard that the opening 27 minutes of Saving Private Ryan were loosely based on a game of dodgeball played by Chuck Norris in 2nd grade." ;-)
reply▲Chuck Norris didn’t die, we simply phased out of his reality.
reply▲DDayMace15 minutes ago
[-] he's not really dead, one of his morning push-ups just launched him into a new universe.
reply▲From one of my friends:
"Chuck Norris didn't die. Death had a near-Chuck Norris experience."
RIP
It's a trick; he will come back unscathed in the next episode.
reply▲looneysquash6 hours ago
[-] There's not a body inside Chuck Norris's casket, there's just a fist.
reply▲simpaticoder6 hours ago
[-] Chuck Norris (and Michael Landon) were golden age role models for young men. Strong but thoughtful, firm but compassionate, and deeply principled but also practical. Yes, these were acting roles but they picked those roles for a reason. Rest in peace, Chuck.
reply▲"Deeply principled" really doesn't describe Obama birther conspiracists.
reply▲He was openly maga and a homophobe and a transphobe. I wouldn’t consider these qualities for a role model.
reply▲Many like myself did not know this as a kid in the 80s-90s. Some of the movies he made like "sidekicks" left a positive impression at that age.
reply▲nazgulsenpai5 hours ago
[-] In the 80s-90s his positions would have aligned fine with the center left.
reply▲rootusrootus4 hours ago
[-] Some of them, perhaps. I don't think the center left would ever have been into the birther conspiracy.
reply▲something76547814 minutes ago
[-] No, I'm pretty sure they would have. I remember during the primaries, Hillary tried to attack Obama by showing him in a "Muslim" garment.
reply▲nazgulsenpai3 hours ago
[-] There were conspiracy theories in the 80s and 90s too.
reply▲sanktanglia2 hours ago
[-] There is a huge difference between general conspiracy theories and the birther lie which was more racist astroturfing than a legitimate conspiracy
reply▲Forget the 80s-90s - Even California passed prop 8 in 2008.
reply▲GP said "these were acting roles." They were talking about the characters, not the actors behind them.
reply▲But then he said he "picked them for a reason" implying that he chose those characters based on the characteristics he shared with them
reply▲Whatever the reason, it wasn't because his characters were "openly maga and a homophobe and a transphobe," because they weren't. Bruce Lee movies and Texas Ranger didn't address those issues at all.
And in spite of his flaws, it's possible that he had some good qualities as well, or at least aspired to them. So maybe those other qualities were what he looked for in the characters he played.
Doesn't seem like he aspired all that hard, since instead of expressing empathy for people who weren't like him, he continued to be a bigot in nearly every aspect. But sure, if you were a white cis straight guy I'm sure he was perfectly kind.
reply▲You either die a hero, or you live long enough to become a Faceboot psychosis villain. It's basically the politics version of "Why is everything so cold?"
reply▲raw_anon_11115 hours ago
[-] I think you forget that Clinton signed the Defense of Marriage Act and put in the policy of “Don’t ask don’t tell” and Obama supported it originally.
Of course they both had a change of heart- was it true change or they saw the direction of the political winds? Who knows?
I don’t know Chuck Norris’s views on LGBT. But if he was a self proclaimed “born again Christian” and a rabid Trump supporter, I can only guess. But I no more expect people who were insulted by what he said (which I personally don’t know) to give him more grace or reverence than I do is a Black man who couldn’t give two shits about a dead racist podcaster.
Other people no more need to “contextualize” homophobia than I feel a need to “contextualize” the racism of a dead podcaster.
My charitable interpretation is that it was political winds, but possibly not in the way you're implying.
I do believe that Obama was 100% cool with gay marriage, but believed it was politically foolhardy to admit that publicly and in policy positions, but was able to advocate for his true feelings once the political climate changed. Still not awesome, but understandable from an electoral perspective.
I'm not really sure about Clinton. I would guess he's personally in favor of gay marriage and gays in the military today, but hard to say what his views might have been in the 90s (as I was a teenager at the time who wasn't all that interested in politics).
Also on supposedly-liberal people doing homophobic things: let's also not forget that California voters banned gay marriage statewide in 2008. 2008! And this was a ballot measure where all voters got a say, not something passed by the legislature.
> put in the policy of “Don’t ask don’t tell”
DADT was a significant improvement over the status quo of "we ask, you tell, and then you get dishonorably discharged". Considering it evidence of homophobia is revisionism. Did it go far enough? No. Was it a good step towards where we wanted to go? Yes.
raw_anon_11115 hours ago
[-] And the Defense of Marriage Act?
reply▲> It passed both houses of Congress by large, veto-proof majorities. Support was bipartisan, though about a third of the Democratic caucus in both the House and Senate opposed it. Clinton criticized DOMA as "divisive and unnecessary".
Sure doesn't seem like a Clinton issue?
raw_anon_11115 hours ago
[-] Again he still signed it. It’s like Susan Collins who always has “serious misgivings” about things that her fellow Republicans do and then votes the party line anyway trying to stay in her party’s good graces while at the same time not pissing off her liberal constituents
reply▲> Again he still signed it.
It was gonna be law either way; signing it removed a political weapon from the folks pushing its passage. Arguing this is something Clinton did to gay people is counterfactual.
raw_anon_11115 hours ago
[-] That’s a really poor excuse to sign on to something that you disagree with. I would not sign a petition for making the “Confederacy Day” law if I lived in Mississippi just because it would become law anyway. You have to stand for something.
Would you think it was okay if Tim Scott signed such a law just so his fellow Republicans couldn’t hold it against him in the primary? Well actually I wouldn’t be surprised if he did…
> That’s a really poor excuse to sign on to something that you disagree with.
It's a pragmatic excuse.
Not signing changes nothing; clear statements that it's bad law; avoid giving the assholes pushing it more likelihood of winning the next election.
raw_anon_11114 hours ago
[-] A clear statement of it being a bad law is not signing it. Should he not do anything that would give assholes an excuse to argue with him?
Am I suppose to be okay if he signed a law overturning “Brown vs Board of Education” because it would become law anyway?
Was the fact that he signed off on executing a mentally retarded man because it would show he was “tough on crime” just him being “pragmatic”?
https://jacobin.com/2016/11/bill-clinton-rickey-rector-death...
Getting back on topic, I don’t get to praise Chuck Norris because of his anti-racism stances but then dismiss his stances against non straight people.
>
I don’t get to praise Chuck Norris because of his anti-racism stances but then dismiss his stances against non straight people.Sure, but I think it's fair to praise people when they do good things, and criticize them for the bad that they do. That's true fir Chuck Norris, Bill Clinton, Barack Obama... anyone.
Totally agree, though, that it's bullshit to think that having positive views on some issues wipes away the bad.
Imagine basing your entire opinion on a man about how they feel about that other man.
reply▲Imagine having a lot of people you once admired and looked up to as role models, from actors all the way to even your parents, suddenly all within a decade or so take their masks off and reveal that they are actually villains.
reply▲Is it revelatory that human beings having a quality you admire aren't the ideal person you projected them to be?
I'd reckon you'd be hard pressed to find a single person that matches every quality/belief you imagined them to have.
I don’t think this is about nit picking some small detail that causes them to fail a quality/belief checklist. It’s not like finding out your hero picks his nose or doesn’t like chocolate ice cream. When someone goes mask-off as MAGA, they are revealing fundamental core beliefs and values that totally flip the kind of person you might have thought they were.
I have friends and family who I never thought had a hateful, cruel, or belligerent bone in their bodies, suddenly start acting like totally different people, in the span of a few years. This isn’t me holding them to some purity checklist!
"Good People" suddenly going all in on racist rants and hard-core misogyny is never going to stop being disturbing.
Some of them taught me how to behave!? Did they just not believe any of those things?
MAGA is a horrifying movement.
It's an object lesson on how certain historical things happened. We go, oh no how could those people have all been inhuman monsters? If only we understood what made them like that.
And the monkey's paw curls…
Agreed. Additionally, when someone says something latently bigoted or hateful, it's easy to just let it slide because we all have our failings and societal progress is slow. Whereas maggotry is about
openly embracing those failings, taking on
additional types of failings from other people, and then socially validating it all as a purported political movement. But the only real thing tying it together is frustration with the world culminating in lashing out, which is why when they get into power there are no actual constructive policies
in any political framework [0]. (apart from lining the preachers' pockets of course, and now apparently a holy war)
nit: I wouldn't call it "mask off" though, as if it's been there the whole time. I'd say it's more like there is tiny a kernel of that (and let's be honest, who doesn't have this in some form or another?), combined with a lack of willpower and critical thinking, that causes them into give in to the siren song of easy answers from mass-personalized propaganda.
[0] ancap and religious fundamentalism are the only frameworks I've been able to find that fit the maggot movement, and they're not particularly constructive.
Fred Rogers was the same kind, thoughtful person in everyday life as he was when he acted on his show. You can watch the congressional tapes of him testifying on increased funding to PBS and also testifying on not making VCRs illegal.
reply▲That's a little bit of a false dichotomy, though. I agree that it would be rare, even impossible, to find people who match every quality I imagined they had.
But some of those failings are forgivable, others are not.
Getting genuinely confused about pronouns sometimes: forgivable.
Being a loud, public MAGA homophobe transphobe: not forgivable.
I stopped being a Chuck Norris fan when I learned he was a frequent contributor to WorldNetDaily, that he actively campaigned against gay marriage, and that he advocated for the theory that Obama was not born in America and saying shit like 'Electing Obama will plunge America into a thousand years of darkness.'
Him liking Trump was a symptom of his regressive, homophobic, and racist beliefs.
Incomprehensible levels of based.
reply▲So I guess Chuck Norris has now keys for the Pearly Gates and is the one who gets to pick the heavenly club members. I'm sure roundhouse kicks are somehow part of the process.
Why do I feel like an era has ended...
Rest in peace.
Clickbait. He is not dead, he just decided to retire from the world of mortals.
reply▲northlondoner5 hours ago
[-] He was a hero in tech and science as well. I recall during my PhD studies, we always create new memes on our field that Chuck can finish things in no time. In loving memory of Chuck Norris.
reply▲Death will soon realize that he messed with the wrong man.
reply▲Chuck Norris haven't died, he just went to carry out the Last Judgement of God (ant probably torture Satan on the way).
reply▲The Grim Reaper wished that Chuck Norris had only come to play chess with him!
reply▲Chuck Norris dominated WoW Barrens chat back in the day. It was kind of weird and amazing at the same time.
reply▲Chuck Norris counted to infinity. Twice.
reply▲Chuck Norris doesn't upvote on Hacker News. His presence alone sends posts to the front page. No more.
reply▲Chuck Norris let him win
reply▲The earth was too scared to have him on it anymore...
reply▲Oh wow, coincidentally I watched a Chuck Norris film recently with my (90 year old) grandmother, which resulted in me diving down a bunch of Chuck Norris memes for the first time in more than a decade.
RIP
I even remember the times he was not vintage yet, but the real thing. Maybe even watched his famous fight scene with Bruce Lee on the cheap cinemas back in the day. Good days. RIP .
reply▲nasaeclipse2 hours ago
[-] Chuck Norris didn't die. He simply moved to a parallel Earth that needed him.
reply▲I grew up watching action films in the 80s and 90s. I always like Chuck Norris ones as they had a humour and ridiclousness about them
Films like Missing in Action ,or delta force where the motorbike fires a rocket were just great at the time
I get he had some funny views later in life - but the films were a laugh at the time
What in the Hell could possibly take down Chuck Norris??? We are all DOOMED!!!
reply▲Wishing him speedy recovery! Legend
reply▲This just means we're in a simulated universe. He's respawned elsewhere.
reply▲He immediately asked the ferryman for a coin to get to the other side.
reply▲I remember having a "Chuck" plugin installed on our Jenkins back in mid 2010's. Gave me a Chuckle every time i forgot it was there.
reply▲Chuck Norris hasn’t died, he summoned the death. RIP.
reply▲Chuck Norris decided to take the final sleep on his own. Death tried years ago, but Chuck didn't feel like it.
reply▲Anyone remember barrens chat?
reply▲Chuck Norris doesn’t die.
reply▲markus_zhang6 hours ago
[-] Oh this guy is a legend. Did he do anything with tech peripherally? I hope we can put up a dark top for him as an exception.
reply▲Not even every important influential person in tech gets the black bar. You think an actor who is mostly known for low-effort internet memes and pretending to be a cowboy on tv deserves it?
reply▲I guess it’s a generational thing, because I shouldn’t actually be surprised that someone would know so very little about Chuck Norris.
reply▲Chuck Norris died? I didn't think that was possible...
reply▲First Wade Boggs and now this. Just awful.
reply▲Wade Boggs is very much alive. He lives in Tampa Florida. He's in his late 60s.
reply▲What a legend.
I enjoyed reading the comments here. RIP.
aimanbenbaha6 hours ago
[-] The Grim Reaper requested permissions from Chuck Norris to take his soul.
reply▲northlondoner5 hours ago
[-] The only person that can train LLMs with his mind.
reply▲Strange if you never heard about Bruce <s>Lee</s> Schneier.
reply▲Death has Chucknorrised?
reply▲Chuck Norris didn't have a near death experience, Death had an experience near him.
reply▲My mother told me, "Chuck Norris passed today at 86" and my mind immediately went to, "I would never expect him to pass anyone on the sidewalk at any slower speed."
reply▲Chuck Norris didn't die, Death chucknorried.
reply▲Wouldn't be suprised, if he dies back and announces a film for next year.
He made it that far in life, that even if you might disagree with him on all and everything, you would still like him.
Chuck Norris didn't die -- Death just became Chuck Norris
reply▲Death did not come for Chuck Norris. Chuck Norris came for Death.
reply▲A part of internet dies with him. RIP.
reply▲Death becomes Chuck Norris.
reply▲philipallstar7 hours ago
[-] An absolute class act of a human. Life well lived.
reply▲He had some pretty awful views that he was pretty loud about, especially later in life. He also cheated on his wife at one point.
However, so as not to speak (purely) ill of the dead, I will say that he was an accomplished martial artist with a prolific film career.
> He had some pretty awful views that he was pretty loud about, especially later in life. He also cheated on his wife at one point.
In 1961, in his early 20s. You get ~80 years on this planet to make mistakes and have views that some other people will dislike. If these are the worst things we can accuse him of, while acknowledging all his charitable work, I'd say he fared OK compared to many other role models we have.
The Obama Birtherism nonsense was certainly not in this dude's 20s
reply▲To be fair, you probably have some views some people think are pretty awful.
reply▲This is a tough thing. I do believe in moral relativism to a large extent, but I also think there are some things that are really just objectively morally and ethically "right" or "wrong".
Hating on LGBT folks and trying to restrict their rights is one of those things that is wrong no matter how you dice it. People who believe otherwise are wrong, full stop.
So it's not really so much about people thinking someone else's views are awful. It's about whether or not those views truly are awful. And I feel very safe in saying that if someone thinks my support of LGBT folks is pretty awful, they're in the wrong, not me. And I'm in the right to think their hateful views are awful.
(Yes, I realize how arrogant that sounds, but I have to stand by it.)
I think this is something that transcends politics or culture wars or anything like that. Having these sorts of hateful views are actively harmful to humanity's and society's future. That doesn't mean I think we should censor people (rampant censorship is also actively harmful to our future), but it does mean we need to somehow fix people and shift the culture toward one that lets people live how they want in cases like this where doing so doesn't actually hurt anyone else. I have no idea how to accomplish this, though.
Oh, for sure. MAGA types think some of my views are absolutely abhorrent. I'm pretty sure there are a few cultures that would kill me for my views.
Just because they hate me, though, doesn't mean I can't disagree with their position.
I don't see how this matters. Whoever thinks I'm horrible is 100% allowed to say this after I'm dead.
reply▲claytongulick6 hours ago
[-] Or, another option is that we could all give grace to others, even (especially) if they disagree with us.
reply▲I'm fine with people disagreeing with me. I'm not fine when that disagreement results in campaigning for legally restricting the rights of others. There's a huge difference.
If every racist, homophobe, and transphobe (and others) would stop trying to enshrine their views into law, I'd have much less of a problem with them. I wouldn't want to hang out with them, but I could safely ignore and not care one bit about their views.
There's disagreement then there's being an outspoken supporter of systematically trying to strip rights away from others because of your religious beliefs. It's much deeper than having differing views on fiscal policy.
reply▲Who are you granting grace to? Who are you denying it to?
We know the answers to these questions for Norris.
Disagree? I think it's safe to say that someone who campaigned to ban same sex marriage is more than just disagreeing. He's trying to ruin millions of lives.
He was an Obama birther conspiracist.
He thought gays shouldn't be allowed to join Boy Scouts.
He was a big supporter of Netanyahu.
This aren't things that are even remotely in the same ballpark as disagreement. If someone is using their celebrity status to cause harm to millions or tens of millions, I think we can say a few unkind words about them when they go.
Don't give grace to racists who spout birther conspiracy theories. Don't give grace to homophobes.
reply▲Me 5 years ago did. I agree with all my views today. Who knows about me 5 years from now
reply▲There's a solid difference between 'awful' and just plain 'dumb'.
reply▲If I can quote Chael Sonnen, I’d like to say ”you absolutely suck!”
reply▲"Don't speak ill of the dead"?
How about "Don't be a bad person when you're alive"?
Something I was brought up to believe was that you shouldn't speak ill of the recently deceased. A courtesy to those in mourning.
I struggle with that rule sometimes.
claytongulick6 hours ago
[-] Great advice. Do you follow it?
Is there one way to be a good person?
Does being a good person also mean agreeing with your politics?
>
Does being a good person also mean agreeing with your politics?Can we stop framing human rights as "politics"? People hating on others because they don't like that they're gay or trans or black or brown... that's just people being fundamentally awful people, and has nothing to do with politics.
The fact that they are then taking their awfulness and engaging politically to enshrine their awful views into law just adds another dimension to it.
I said this in another comment: if these people with awful views would stop trying to make those awful views laws, then I'd have much less of a problem with them; I could at least just ignore them.
> Is there one way to be a good person?
What a useless, one-dimensional take on the problem.
There are good people whose politics I disagree with. If you are using your celebrity status to cause harm to millions on the international stage, systematically attempting to strip their rights, I think it's fair to say they weren't a good person.
reply▲My dad was a film reporter in the late '70s/early '80s, and told me that Chuck Norris had been one of the friendliest celebrities he had ever met.
My dad had some antiquated views himself too.
People can have/be both, I suppose.
That's the thing: you can be a perfectly pleasant person to interact with, and people can genuinely enjoy interacting with you.
But then you can start actively using your celebrity status to advocate for legally restricting the rights of people you don't like. That's the real problem, and that's why I wouldn't want to look at people like Chuck Norris as role models.
Being polite doesn't make you a good person. It just makes you tolerable, or even pleasant, in personal interactions.
Sure, we can talk about things like your dad's experience. But there's more to it than that.
"Class act" is doing a lot of lifting there
reply▲guywithahat28 minutes ago
[-] As far as I can tell he was an incredible person in life, people only spoke well of him. Sad to see him go, although happy he lived a full life
reply▲Yeah, his support of the Obama "birther" conspiracy was super classy.
reply▲The headline is incorrect. Chuck Norris didn't die, he transcended.
Also, the grim reaper hasn't yet gathered the courage to tell him.
He hasn’t died, he’s just moved on to an eternity of roundhouse kicking Satan.
reply▲"Every man has two deaths, when he is buried in the ground and the last time someone says his name. In some ways men can be immortal."
― Chuck Norris
Chuck Norris doesn't die. He prepares himself for the next battle, with Jeff Dean.
reply▲reply▲>
"Chuck Norris actually died 20 years ago, but Death hasn't built up the courage to tell him yet."Death finally worked up the nerve.
How did he die?
reply▲Boredom, last enemy to defeat was life itself.
reply▲volkercraig6 hours ago
[-] He was 86 years old
reply▲How do you know that?
Scientists tried to measure Chuck Norris’ age. The number refused to exist.
reply▲Honestly some of the most successful PR ever to paint a conservative religious bigoted homophobic freak as simply a meme of hyper-masculinity.
reply▲They're not that far apart, honestly.
reply▲That's true. These days it seems the ideal conservative man is more like a caveman eating steak off the bone versus a thoughtful caring Atticus Finch type.
reply▲with_a_herring6 hours ago
[-] The headline is inaccurate.
Chuck Norris is alive and kicking in another dimension.
reply▲SV_BubbleTime7 hours ago
[-] “We’d like to keep the circumstances private”
Yes, but now I’m like, super suspicious.
He was defeated by Mr Rogers in a blood-stained sweater. Understandable they're keeping that quiet.
(Ok, ok, technically it was Gandalf the Gray and White, and Monty Python and the Holy Grail's Black Knight)
And Benito Musollini, and the Blue Meanie. And Cowboy Curtis and Jambi the Genie
reply▲And Robocop, Terminator, Captain Kirk and Darth Vader. Lo-Pan, Superman, every single Power Ranger.
reply▲And Bill S. Preston, Theodore Logan, Spock, The Rock, Doc Ock, and Hulk Hogan.
reply▲There is nothing suspicious about a celebrity's family just wanting to deal with death in private.
reply▲You're probably right, but that's not the usual wording you hear. Of course, when grieving, proper proofreading may not be (nor should it be) at the top of anyone's list.
reply▲They usually don't put it like that, though. It's usually just "please respect our privacy during this difficult time", etc.
reply▲So many commenters here are, or choose to be, completely obvlivious to the fact that Chuck Norris was a racist little man who decried Obama becoming president, supported Trump through both campaigns, and openly hated muslims and gay people.
Yeah, really tough guy.
Yeah, I was pretty bummed with how Chuck Norris and Hulk Hogan turned out in the end.
reply▲polothesecond5 hours ago
[-] Very cool thread. Middle school jokes and culture wars. I’m so glad we don’t allow political threads on here and can instead bask in the intellectual might of people talking about TV man the did/didn’t like.
reply