Show HN: We built a terminal-only Bluesky / AT Proto client written in Fortran
125 points
19 hours ago
| 20 comments
| github.com
| HN
Yes, that Fortran.
jrmg
3 hours ago
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It seems you’ve written an extensive blog post about this, but I don’t see a direct link anywhere!

https://www.patreon.com/posts/fortransky-we-in-153457794

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FormerLabFred
2 hours ago
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To the repo? It’s in the blog post head, in section under first screenshot,

https://github.com/FormerLab/fortransky

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jrmg
2 hours ago
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No, I mean the other direction.

The repo is what’s this HN post links to, and I don’t see a link to the blog post in it or in other comments here. The blog post is interesting!

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FormerLabFred
1 hour ago
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Ok got you. Good point, added to repo README
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worldmerge
5 hours ago
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I’ve never seen fortran before. Wow, that looks more readable than a lot of modern languages.
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bee_rider
4 hours ago
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Modern versions of Fortran are reasonably pretty.

It’s a fairly nice language. You can probably get better performance out of C/C++ with unlimited effort. But, it is really nice for allowing computational scientists to get, like, 95% of the way there.

I think it actually suffers from the reputation as this ancient/super hardcore performance language. The name comes from “Formula Translating System,” which implies… it was written for people who speak human languages first!

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sitzkrieg
2 hours ago
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ive maintained a simulation software where the core is written in fortran. its using some intel math library that is expensive that i cannot recall, does immense calculations and makes faster binaries than c on every compiler we tried
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bee_rider
57 minutes ago
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Interesting.

MKL is Intel’s famous numerical library (it includes things like BLAS “basic linear algebra subroutines” and fast Fourier transforms). It is availible for free, but IIRC they had some support plans maybe, maybe that’s what you are remembering?

It is closed source, but you can look at the source of the best open source competitor libflame/BLIS, and see that most of the performance comes from C and assembly.

It is difficult to beat “unlimited effort” C, but not many program really justify that treatment.

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foxglacier
2 seconds ago
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MKL used to not be free. You had to buy it from a local reseller for a few hundred dollars per developer.
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cmrdporcupine
4 hours ago
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Modern dialects of Fortran, sure.

Old school Fortran from before they added cleaner and more structured elements is terrifying.

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lzhgusapp
10 hours ago
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Love seeing niche Show HN projects like this. The choice of Fortran is wild but that's what makes it fun. As someone building small Mac utilities, I appreciate any project that proves you don't need a massive stack to ship something useful.
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FormerLabFred
9 hours ago
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Thanks for the feedback!

We got a spec for Assemblersky. Will be a weekend project. Cancel Easter :) And probably Midsummer too…

We got image composer and decoder plugged in in dev env, but will let this first open version breathe first. ASCII or early Apple algo

Fortran-fast feed builder probably in next open version. It crunches fast

Morning, 9 o’clock in Sweden, coffee and check-the-feed-on- Fortransky-time :)

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bombcar
2 hours ago
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COBOLsky. It’s enterprise webscale.
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cat-turner
19 hours ago
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out of curiosity, why fortran? no disrespect. I wrote a lot of scientific software in the earlier days of my career and I learned fortran to update ocean modeling software.
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FormerLabFred
19 hours ago
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You are not the first one to ask :)

We built Cobolsky. Will go public soon. Parallelly too curious on Fortran. The world is better with a Fortran-based social network client in it :)

When we are building the feed composer, in next version, Fortran will be great for the algorithm etc.

Keeping the ancient languages alive. I built some Cobol stuff many years ago. Back at it again. Rusty.

Both Cobolsky and Fortransky looks great on Swordfish90’s cool-retro-term, but we are building our own terminal for Fortransky too. There is a blog post with screenshots over at Patreon/formerlab

Can’t get enough Fortran

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johnisgood
40 minutes ago
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Thank you for choosing Fortran. Seriously, I mean it.

Someone else already said this, but it is awesome because it proves that you can write useful software using languages others consider ancient or dead and therefore "unusable".

Keep up the great work!

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bee_rider
5 hours ago
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Which version of the language is it? It looks like you used Fortran90 at least (modules are used), which is pretty old, but not totally ancient like Fortran77.

Anyway there are also 2018 and 2023 versions…

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fortran77
2 hours ago
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I still make a living from Fortran77 work, though much of it is converting it to Matlab.
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bee_rider
50 minutes ago
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Building interfaces or full converting? Either way sounds like a dream job, haha.
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Melatonic
9 hours ago
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How do COBOL and Fortran compare for something like this ?
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FormerLabFred
9 hours ago
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COBOL is more painful, Fortran better.

Good you raised the topic, can write a blog post on it when we ship Cobolsky. Will be a proof of concept repo. Fortransky is the one

(If AT Proto did fixed-width records instead of JSON, COBOL would be formidable)

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embedding-shape
19 hours ago
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> The world is better with a Fortran-based social network client in it

If you don't mind me asking, why is the world better with more Fortran-based software?

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FormerLabFred
19 hours ago
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Our modern languages are built on it, and it’s incredibly fast,

so it deserves to be kept alive. We owe a great deal to the people who wrote it in the 1950s I guess

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mountainriver
18 hours ago
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This thread makes me happy
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johnisgood
27 minutes ago
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I know right! I was pleasantly surprised. It has to be one of the greatest news I have heard in a while.
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embedding-shape
18 hours ago
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> Our modern languages are built on it

It's part of the lineage, yeah, probably started with Algol though? Fast I guess is always nice, but I'm not sure that's enough to keep it alive solely for that, at least to me.

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mathieudombrock
10 hours ago
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I think the best answer you're really going to get here is that it's cool and fun to learn and use old languages.
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embedding-shape
7 hours ago
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I'd agree with all of those reasons! I do so myself as well, was just specifically curious about the "The world is better with a Fortran-based social network client in it" part. Don't get me wrong, I've spent too many nights learning "dead" languages too, but never with the idea that the world would be better if I published more code in these dead languages, it's just for my own gratification and learnings.
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hedora
16 hours ago
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I came here to suggest COBOL as a better fit, then saw your comment a few levels up in this thread.

Out of curiosity, does your implementation use CODASYL?

(For people that don't pay much attention to historical software systems, most CODASYL implementations were similar to JSON document databases, so going that way isn't as crazy as it sounds.)

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FormerLabFred
8 hours ago
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Great comment! Thanks!

No CODASYL, the JSON parser is hand-rolled Fortran with a depth-tracking key scanner

CODASYL not a crazy direction for the feed composer

Got more depth to explore here, still early :)

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enriquto
19 hours ago
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> why fortran?

why not? the language is straightforward and loops are fast. It is portable and your code will work unchanged for the next 50 years. It may be a bit verbose, but that's not a big deal with today's tooling.

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FormerLabFred
19 hours ago
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Fortran will survive the cockroaches even, when the world 404s
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pklausler
19 hours ago
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Your code will work unchanged until you try to change compilers or your compiler adopts a J3 breaking change to the language.
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kergonath
17 hours ago
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> your compiler adopts a J3 breaking change to the language

Like all the 3 of them they added in the last 30 years, and that compiler vendors are not enforcing anyway because they don’t want to annoy their users?

Windows’ backward compatibility is a joke compared to Fortran.

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deadbabe
13 hours ago
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Great, can we see some benchmarks?
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FormerLabFred
8 hours ago
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Cobolsky holds the record for most surprised looks per line of code :)

Fortransky benchmarks pending

the feed scorer will have real numbers worth reporting

Whenever time allows in future: Fortran vs Go vs Python

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pklausler
19 hours ago
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maybe they weren't really concerned about portability or a decent standard?
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FormerLabFred
19 hours ago
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It’s keyboard navigation only, and we got the Bluesky firehose raw straight into the Rust decoder. Or we switch mode to Jetstream with m+EnTER :)

You hit l+ENTER to like a post. If anyone replies from Bluesky, we hit n+ENTER and see the notifs. And so on

Fortransky is 70% Fortran, rest is Rust, C and a tiny Python helper

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FormerLabFred
1 hour ago
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Forecast: Fortransky on Tangled tomorrow Sunday
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zoom6628
12 hours ago
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Brilliant in every possible way. Fortran was first language I learnt at high school in its "PORTRAN" variant.
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FormerLabFred
9 hours ago
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:) We tried Abacus Fortran on the C64 back in the days and were allowed to stay indoors during breaks doing Basic stuff too on school computer.

One of the guys wrote 8xxROM some 10 years later.

Today known as U−Boot :)

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jrmg
3 hours ago
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There seems to be a bunch of Rust in there too?
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FormerLabFred
2 hours ago
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It’s early version yes. It’s 70% Fortran, next version more Fortran and we will add x86-64 assembly decoder for AT Proto firehose frames
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hk1337
18 hours ago
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Are there any other AT protocol apps that aren’t derivatives of bluesky? By that I mean, not social media feed related, twitter clone.
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iameli
18 hours ago
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Yep lots! Mine is a livestreaming service: https://stream.place

Also a great blogging platform: https://leaflet.pub

Here's a goal tracker: https://goals.garden

This one just dropped recently; it's 44 different atproto-related apps with a cyberpunk theme: https://www.aetheros.computer/

Lots others mentioned here: https://blueskydirectory.com/

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FormerLabFred
18 hours ago
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AT conference in a couple of days. In Vancouver. Bet they are all there and the rest of the AT bunch.
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FormerLabFred
18 hours ago
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Don’t know if people are building GitHub-like systems, offline-first app sync etc

Many devs reuse schema and write some twitter/bsky clone

Kind of search engine for my Blueaky likes

Gotta get off the timeline, germ has a messaging app, then there is Tangled and some more

We do Fortransky and Cobolsky now, got more ideas for the protocol than time :)

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linolevan
18 hours ago
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https://tangled.org/ <--- GitHub on ATProto

that's all I'm aware of

(edit) Oops, just saw that you mentioned it, confused by your first line then. Tangled is awesome!

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tjuene
18 hours ago
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i am currently working on a dropbox alternative: https://dropb.at
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FormerLabFred
1 hour ago
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Cool!
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Hamuko
6 hours ago
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How do you plan on differentiating it from just a trivial setup of an FTP account that's mounted locally with curlftpfs and has files in a SVN or CVS on the mounted filesystem?
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tjuene
4 hours ago
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good point, i havent considered this at all. its basically dead on arrival
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Uptrenda
2 hours ago
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Whenever I hear about this AT protocol I think about the text-based commands to control cellular modems. I can't be the only one, r-right guise... r-right?
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fortran77
2 hours ago
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Finally! Some relevant news here. I wondered where all the other Fortran people were hiding. I thought I knew all the other BlueSky Fortraners.
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vincentabolarin
5 hours ago
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'written in Fortran'.

Interesting choice. Why?

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h4ch1
18 hours ago
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It's always nice to see production codebases in languages that you've never used but are interested in.

Tangential, but to the author, are there any FORTRAN codebases you feel are well designed?

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FormerLabFred
18 hours ago
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Good reminder to dig around. Will check. We picked up the Fortran manual and just went for it.

The original Manual exists as a PDF. Was it in a Stuttgart uni URL? Just a search away.

Late in Sweden, gotta Fortran tomorrow. Happy to continue discussion here tomorrow.

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nerdypepper
14 hours ago
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y'all gotta throw this up on https://tangled.org ;)
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FormerLabFred
1 hour ago
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On it!
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uberdru
19 hours ago
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The world is a better place for this app. Wonderful!
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FormerLabFred
19 hours ago
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:) I mean there are still some people alive out there who never saw a web UI when beginning dev. They get a bit nostalgic, missing their 286

It’s fun and it is appreciated by them, and the young ones who are curious

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arunakt
10 hours ago
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thats COBOL :)
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Ashkaan
12 hours ago
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Oh this is cool
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blundergoat
19 hours ago
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fortran > cobol
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pklausler
19 hours ago
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fortran .GT. cobol
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FormerLabFred
19 hours ago
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> forever
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isodev
12 hours ago
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On ATProto: it’s funny how we never learn the lesson:

- VCs band together to fund something shiny.

- Devs love shiny, helping spread the something.

- VCs enschitify it to get their coins back.

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FormerLabFred
1 hour ago
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VC is Fortransky no-go zone
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grougnax
4 hours ago
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Why not Rust ?
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youhai
12 hours ago
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From my experience building browser automation tools, the biggest challenge with most Chromium-based solutions is that their TLS fingerprint is a dead giveaway. Firefox-based approaches tend to fare much better against JA3/JA4 fingerprinting.

The key insight is moving fingerprint spoofing from the JS level (which is itself detectable) down to the native C++ level. It's a fundamentally different approach.

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FormerLabFred
8 hours ago
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Multiple tabs open? :)
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kgwxd
1 hour ago
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Just spam.
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