You are not your job
38 points
1 hour ago
| 11 comments
| jry.io
| HN
beastman82
19 minutes ago
[-]
I want to thank everyone who hates work, is mentally checked out of their jobs and quiet quitting etc.

It makes it much easier for me to distinguish myself as a hard worker who cares about the business being successful. It also helps me keep my job during layoffs because I can assure you the managers have noticed.

When you are old and have lots of formative experiences that are not work-based, we can shake hands and mutually appreciate each other's motives and respective outcomes.

reply
Arainach
17 minutes ago
[-]
> It also helps me keep my job during layoffs because I can assure you the managers have noticed.

If you believe the managers who interact with you have any say in who gets laid off, then your understanding of how business works isn't nearly as good as you seem to believe it is.

reply
yurishimo
11 minutes ago
[-]
Depends on the size of company. I’ve definitely worked for companies where I know for a fact that my manager had the final say.
reply
garciasn
13 minutes ago
[-]
I am arguably a successful employee in a tech-focused role. I enjoy my job and others seem to feel I'm good at what I do.

That said: I am NOT at all interested in identifying myself in social situations by my job. When someone asks what I do, I respond that I work in tech. I am not interested in giving more details nor talking in-depth about what I do to others I have just met.

Why? Because that's not at all what makes me...me. I am far more interested in what I do outside of work (reading...a lot, listening to music, spending as much time w/my family as possible, traveling, spending time at my lake home, etc). That is what I work to do; enjoy my life.

I realize this is an uncommon opinion, but I find it SO VERY ODD that folks are OBSESSED about their jobs and make it a central point of their existence to those outside of their specific industry. I do NOT care what someone does for their day-to-day; it's unlikely it will have any impact on me or my friendship with them. I want to know what they bring to the table in our current or potential social situation and the fact that they make PowerPoint presentations for whomever to look at, ask a few questions answered in the presentation's appendix, and never think about again doesn't do anything to further any of that.

reply
marconey
4 minutes ago
[-]
Well said, thanks

I’d much rather know and learn about someone’s passion for woodworking, hill walking, flower arranging, whatever they enjoy doing in their free time, rather than having to talk about their (or my!) work.

reply
jazz9k
7 minutes ago
[-]
Do you have any friends? Your job is a good topic that allows you to find something in common with another person.
reply
garciasn
39 seconds ago
[-]
My job has nothing to do with what I enjoy doing with my circle of friends. I just don't see how my work relates to anything we do together (eating out; my cooking for them; having them up to the lake; recommending new books to read; going to see live music together; etc).
reply
fcarraldo
4 minutes ago
[-]
Not if they work outside of tech…
reply
loglog
5 minutes ago
[-]
Traveling? Lake home? I am glad to go to work just to not listen to my wife how we are so poor and cannot have nice things.
reply
noisy_boy
1 minute ago
[-]
> It also helps me keep my job during layoffs because I can assure you the managers have noticed.

I can assure you that when they are laying off to cut costs, which is most of the time, what they notice is A) the old/expensive ones who can be let go without any major disruptions and B) the "expendables" such as contractors or those they have a personal dislike of - the latter usually has not much to do with hard work and a lot more to do with perception. Category A is to meet cost targets while category B can also help with number targets.

If you think your hard work alone will save you, I pray that life spares you that rude shock.

reply
lm28469
1 minute ago
[-]
Who's a good boy? Who's a good boooy? Yes beastman82 your the best boyyy

See you on your death bed, because I sure as shit won't feel bad about not being a corporate drone when I'm lying in mine

reply
alpha_squared
7 minutes ago
[-]
Something tells me you haven't been laid off before. I think the overconfidence you're displaying here will be shattered if that were to happen. I hope it doesn't happen to you, but if it does I hope you remember that you are not your job.
reply
cj
1 minute ago
[-]
[delayed]
reply
dolebirchwood
4 minutes ago
[-]
I've known people who survived multiple rounds of layoffs, not because they were "distinguished", but because they were the cheapest. Meanwhile, their more talented counterparts got the ax for being too expensive. Simple as that.
reply
Tade0
6 minutes ago
[-]
This approach makes huge sense when you're a contractor who is aiming to graduate into a staff engineer.
reply
dgxyz
1 minute ago
[-]
Yeah that.

I don’t put any effort in now. Still get paid the same. Now have more time for better stuff.

reply
asveikau
16 minutes ago
[-]
> worker who cares about the business being successful

In most cases, this is a sucker mentality that makes you vulnerable to abusive employers. You will stress yourself out making your boss richer. They won't care or make reciprocal gestures. They'd be happy to replace you should you become inconvenient.

reply
yurishimo
2 minutes ago
[-]
It’s not about stressing yourself out; that’s something you can ultimately control (though admittedly, many people are bad at separating the two) but more about _how good you are at putting on a show_ of giving a shit.

There is a non zero chance that the company I work for pivots into some weird crypto niche (low, but we’re already fintech-y). If that happens, I’m out, but no way in hell am I gonna pivot my work personality overnight because of a business decision made by the company’s board and investors.

If I need to put on a happy face for my boss to keep my job, then I’m gonna do it because I can’t afford not to at the moment. That’s not to say there is no line, but being a generally positive person in the workplace is a role I’m fine with playing. It costs me very little personally and opens a lot of doors because let’s face it, nobody likes working with a loathsome human being, even if they’re right.

Am I a sucker? Maybe by your definition, but I don’t feel like one currently.

reply
sodapopcan
6 minutes ago
[-]
Hate to say it but very appropriate username.
reply
testing22321
6 minutes ago
[-]
> It also helps me keep my job during layoffs because I can assure you the managers have noticed.

Sounds like you’re young and early in your career.

Wait till you’re part of a layoff where an entire division or arm of the company is axed in a 750 person headcount reduction.

Doesn’t matter how good you are, how many years of service you have or even if the CEO loves you. You’ll be out.

reply
reactordev
11 minutes ago
[-]
Until you get fired…
reply
david-gpu
2 minutes ago
[-]
Agreed with the title and some of the broad sentiment, but two things stood out.

> I can't delegate my capacity to sit with someone when they're confused or scared or just need to feel known

Plenty of people rely on therapists and/or chat bots to listen to them. Not everybody feels comfortable burdening their friends and family with their problems.

> We possess the means to care for everyone -- yet choose not to

There is a trade-off between social services in a broad sense and the ability to pay for them. The stronger the social safety net, the more people at the margin will choose to work less, earn less, make less of an effort. In turn, the tax base becomes smaller, and thus unable to maintain those social services.

For example, the vast majority of people choose to retire once they reach the age where they are able to collect enough from their pension that they no longer need to work in order to get by. If we lowered the age of eligibility by a year, most people would retire a year earlier. Just like we see people retiring later in countries that have moved the eligibility to the age of e.g. 67.

With this I am not advocating to increase or decrease the current social safety net in whichever region you, dear reader, are living. I am simply pointing out some of the real-world effects of moving the needle in one direction or another.

Thus, yes, in rich countries we have collectively decided that "caring for everyone" is not the best way forward, because we would have to pay for it later. Where exactly we place the needle varies from place to place, obviously.

reply
cedws
9 minutes ago
[-]
>My technical skills are being disrupted by machines - that's fine I'll go do other things. [links to long bike trip]

Ok that's cool and all but many of us have bills to pay. Bike trips don't pay the bills. Software people have been economically advantaged up until now that they can go and do stuff like that.

reply
ChrisMarshallNY
18 minutes ago
[-]
There’s an old aphorism: “Do what you love, and you’ll never work a day in your life.”

I worked in tech, because I love tech. No other reason, really. I accepted a job, making maybe half of what I could make, elsewhere, because of the personal satisfaction I got from it, and the relationships I made, there.

When I retired, I have continued to develop software, and am currently “leaning into” AI-assisted development.

During that time, I’ve also had plenty of time to be human.

reply
Bender
11 minutes ago
[-]
This was the same for me. The only things I did not like about tech were not really related to tech but rather bad leadership or the wrong kinds of leadership. Early in my career I worked for one of the worst and literally most criminal managed hosting organizations and it was the best boon for my career making me fearless. I learned how to remove all emotion from my experiences and off-board bad leaders. Everything else for me was being in the right place around the right people at the right time and teaching those around me everything I knew in hopes they would take over those tasks. My biggest satisfaction was helping others with their careers and helping them off-board bad and abusive management.
reply
vrganj
16 minutes ago
[-]
I have found that aphorism does not ring true for me.

“Do what you love for work, and you'll stop loving it" seems more true to me. It always eventually turns into a chore once it is a thing you need to do.

reply
saltcured
2 minutes ago
[-]
It's a bit fractal and tautological...

On the one hand, I think a lot of the ruinous parts are the extra things it forces beyond the parts you actually love. So the problem there is you are actually doing a bunch of things you don't love, so do "work" some portion of your day.

The other is that many of us do love a bit of oppositional defiance. Doing what is demanded of us by others is definitely not doing what we love in that respect!

reply
hinkley
3 minutes ago
[-]
IMO, there are more steps. Do what you love for work, someone will exploit you for it, and break your heart.

One of my kids has taken this advice, does art (really good art) for themselves and is pursuing a STEM career instead. The other is pursuing a game dev career, despite every current and former dev in his life warning him off for the last fifteen years. To quote Kissing Jessica Stein, “OY! This child will suffer.”

reply
ilamont
23 minutes ago
[-]
When you meet someone, you assess them on two dimensions. The first is warmth - do you believe they mean you well? The second is competence - do you believe they're capable?

Well, sometimes.

At other times, the assessment may be based on signalling, tribalism, perception of status, personal connections, career connections, transactional goals, or other criteria.

Some people don't have or can't show warmth. Or they don't have the ability to "crack a joke at the right time" or make small talk. Should that be held against people when making assessments?

reply
throwaway2027
21 minutes ago
[-]
>Should that be held against people when making assessments?

It shouldn't but it does.

reply
tim-tday
1 hour ago
[-]
50% of your waking hours are spent at work. The person you are revolves around your working hours, the problems you solve the concerns you have, the money you make the persona you display at work.

Saying you are not your work is wishful thinking. Try giving it up and check in on how much of you is still the same.

Maybe you wish to be more than your working self. That’s honorable and desirable. Just declaring it isn’t going to cut it though.

reply
heikkilevanto
13 minutes ago
[-]
> Saying you are not your work is wishful thinking. Try giving it up and check in on how much of you is still the same.

I retired a few years ago, and I believe and insist that I am very much the same person.

To see a person only as what they do at work seems awfully limiting. Even when I was working, I was also a sailor, musician, woodworker, home brewer, cat person, chess player, leather guy, and a good number of other things. And yes, even after retiring, I am still a computer guy. I even like hobby coding projects more than I did.

reply
IncreasePosts
31 minutes ago
[-]
I'd only become more "me" if I stopped working. Work isn't a place I go to self actualize, it's a place I go to earn money to do the things I want to do.
reply
mhurron
20 minutes ago
[-]
It's also a place a great number of people have to hide who they are because they have to fit in.
reply
rexpop
7 minutes ago
[-]
This idea that you are not your job is ridiculous because of the amount of time that you spend at your work. And it’s not just fifty of your waking hours, right? There’s also time spent preparing for, commuting to, and winding down from that work. And also, you know, how much of your work are you doing in the shower? It stains the rest of your life; it soaks into everything.

This concept goes hand in hand with...

(oh, to say nothing of the many years of your life dedicated to developing this vocation through school and training or whatever. So it’s not just hours of the day; it’s years of your life that revolve around developing this vocation. It’s deeply disingenuous to suggest that it’s possible to separate yourself meaningfully from your vocation. Frankly, it’s insulting—to suggest that such separation is possible or even preferable, or to judge people for failing to separate their vocation from their identity when it’s impossible.

It makes me think of some of the impossible requirements placed on women: that they not be too slutty while at the same time not wearing a hijab or being too conservative. They get pressure from both sides, and there’s very little space, if any, that goes unjudged or unremarked upon. Having children too early, too late, or not at all—women will get flack from one corner of society or another. Likewise, workers get flack for overidentifying with their vocation, but it’s really impossible to extricate ourselves from it. For that reason, I find the whole idea offensive.)

...this concept of not making friends at work—or of distinguishing between your “work friends” and your “real friends.”

People tell me, “Your manager is not your friend. Your co-workers are not here to be your friends. You shouldn’t expect loyalty from them.” And okay, I get that. I understand the economic realities; I’ve had co-workers say things like, “Hey, I agree with you on this one, but I have a mortgage. I have kids in college. So I’m not going to speak up. I’m not going to join you in this complaint or in this effort to improve working conditions.”

I understand there are real economic constraints on the friendships, the loyalty, and the relationships that we establish in the office. I’ve also had co-workers who were loyal, empathetic, caring, honest, earnest—decent, good people—and they were groomed for management in a way that basically meant that once a week they’d be taken into a room and grilled about everyone else’s behavior. They were made into unwilling spies, and that has a chilling effect on the depth of friendships you can create. What’s tragic about that is, as I said at the start, because so much of our lives are dedicated to our vocation, the fact that we cannot establish meaningful, trusting, loyal relationships—that we’re forced to snitch on and betray one another—is a stunning, fundamental, disgusting injustice.

It’s an enormous violation of human liberties and possibilities. It is an utterly debased compromise that we’ve made as a society, one that wrecks us. It is a deeply troubling flaw in our foundation—that the majority of our hours, days, and years are dedicated to an environment where mutual trust and free association are fundamentally compromised.

reply
ashwinnair99
35 minutes ago
[-]
The people who figure this out early are rare. Most only get there after losing the job or burning out completely. Shame it takes that long
reply
MattDamonSpace
24 minutes ago
[-]
Fine essay overall but “We possess the means to care for everyone -- yet choose not to”

I really don’t think this is true

reply
Etheryte
18 minutes ago
[-]
The US could make homelessness a thing of the past with a minuscule fraction of what it is spending on the military. It is very much a choice.
reply
OJFord
34 minutes ago
[-]
I am not my age or gender either in this sense, but I am still going to say 'I am a man' and 'I am x years old', because I am fluent in English.
reply
rvz
32 minutes ago
[-]
This was obvious to those who value their time over the job given to them and all the office politics, performative meetings and the blame-game that comes with it.
reply
anovikov
1 hour ago
[-]
Indeed, thinking that people and the way they extract money from the environment is same is ridiculous and i've been teaching my kid from childhood that it's just wrong. We've been conditioned to think that way from the industrial era. I hope now people will finally learn to think different.
reply