What young workers are doing to AI-proof themselves
127 points
14 hours ago
| 20 comments
| wsj.com
| HN
cpach
11 hours ago
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anthuswilliams
4 hours ago
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Summary of article: in an uncertain job market, some young people are going into blue collar trades. Others are starting startups. Others are powering through. Journalist says some words about "AI" being the cause of all this uncertainty.
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blitzar
1 hour ago
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Your role writing these summaries could be outsourced to Ai if you don't improve your productivity.
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fancyswimtime
27 minutes ago
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The AI has evaluated your performance as unsatisfactory; no food stamps this week.
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baxtr
2 hours ago
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Thank you. That was the comment I came looking for.
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galaxyLogic
4 hours ago
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So a lot of people might lose their jobs because of AI, right? But the same amount of economic output, probably more, will be produced because of AI. By whom will that output then be consumed? If people don't have jobs they don't have money to buy and therefore ... prices will have to come down!

Society as a whole will be better off because there is more output, better quality output. Then it's for us to vote in a government that shares the fruits of AI with everybody, by way of progressive taxation. Government, use the taxes you collect to give us free food. We don't need 5-star restaurants, just healthy food. We can do this, in a democracy.

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zarzavat
3 hours ago
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> prices will have to come down

Prices of services will come down. Prices of things that require natural resources will go up.

In a hypothetical world where let's say we have AIs that can do any human job more effectively than a human, rich people who can afford to control the AIs will control society and poor people who have nothing to offer economically will live in poverty.

A good proxy for our future is Angola: an upper class who got rich off the oil boom, and a lower class who is dirt poor because they have nothing to offer the oil industry.

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Animats
35 minutes ago
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That's a generic problem with oil states. Or, more generally, where most income is generated by some centralized industry with strong government involvement. See "Dutch disease".[1] It's a strange situation in which having high income from valuable resources ends up making a state less industrial, and usually both more corrupt and poorer.

Is AI going to do this? Quite possibly. One of the symptoms is most investment capital being sucked up by the extractive industry. We're there now with AI. The current US situation is that the economy is flat except for AI companies and data centers, which are booming and are sucking up vast resources.

Most of OPEC has been through this cycle. Venezuela, Egypt, Iran, Iraq - lots of oil, but it didn't make the countries rich.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_disease

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hithre
43 minutes ago
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Yes. Though it won’t be a small class of rich, it will be a couple of overpowerful families only. I don’t think we have any examples to compare too.

Also, If you control the AI, but there is no middle class to consume its product, everyone is poor and controlling the AI doesn’t bring that much.

There is still some products much more important and stable: food, water and therefore land control.

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nazgul17
1 hour ago
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Is it a good proxy, though? My intuition is that many economic effects play out very differently if they are limited to one country vs the whole world.

To make this more concrete, tax havens only work because most countries keep producing for real. AI will take all jobs, not just Angolan jobs.

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matheweis
2 hours ago
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> Prices of things that require natural resources will go up.

This suggests a potential equilibrium sooner rather than later .. few modern technological advances have been as resource hungry as AI

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gmerc
2 hours ago
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You forgot monopolies break the “price must come down”.
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Epa095
1 hour ago
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Progressive taxes hit wage earners, while its the owners who will reap the benefits of AI. We won't get a share of the fruits without solving how to properly tax wealth(in a world where money is power, and its trivial for rich people to move to a different tax regime), which unfortunately seems tabu in large parts of the western world.
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SequoiaHope
4 hours ago
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I agree completely, but you forget that another option is that the powerful will use these tools to make us suffer and we will be powerless to stop them.
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dandanua
2 hours ago
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That's the default option. Power seeks only more power, sharing is worthless to it, except as a temporary instrument. And AI is a perfect tool to concentrate even more power in tiny hands.
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throwuxiytayq
3 hours ago
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Well, we could vote. In some parts of the world, at least.
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returnInfinity
2 hours ago
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And look at what that led to. Democracy is not a panacea.
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Moto7451
3 hours ago
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Yes-Anding you, if one developer is suddenly 3x more productive and does 40 hours of work in 15 with AI tools, any reasonable manager would still want the same three people to keep working at 3x productivity.

I don’t see Keynes’ theory we would all be working drastically fewer hours per week suddenly materializing due to AI. As always we’re just going to try to output more in the same time. The fact I, a manager, can “vibe code” some bugs away between meetings does not mean I will benefit from having one less dedicated engineer.

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laughing_man
2 hours ago
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You need paying customers for whatever those developers are producing. If your market size is relatively fixed, you don't need three people anymore.

Look at it this way: if there really was a 3x market potential, why wouldn't that manager have hired six more people already?

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kuboble
1 hour ago
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One thing could be that there is an extra management cost for each person to manage.

It's much easier to manage 3 people with better tools than to manage 9 people even if their output would be the same

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returnInfinity
2 hours ago
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Lets take the example of Uber. If Uber ships 10x the code and features, I will still not 2x my rides.

Even if Uber makes the cost of travel to 0, I will still not 2x my rides.

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ehnto
2 hours ago
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Uber needs to prove that they are growing though to validate their stock value, one of the tricks used to be increasing headcount to show growth.

But other tricks include new ventures, essentially public companies and VC companies have an almost unlimited appetite for new ventures, as that is how they keep validating their future growth and stock prices.

Currently financial realities are forcing layoffs, and the AI story is covering for the "growth" validation to keep stock prices going up.

But what's next? After you've fired everyone, what's the next growth story? They'll start hiring again, for new projects, even if AI can handle the coding there is still gobs of work surrounding building a software business or department that needs meat moving it forward.

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ghaff
2 hours ago
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0, yes you will. Or at least most would unless piblic transit were a genuinely better way to get around. But it won’t be zero as it’s bounded by the base cost of operating the vehicle.
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KellyCriterion
2 hours ago
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How would they lower the prices to 0 in this scenario, if they have to keep operating their AI-driver-army?
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thaumasiotes
1 hour ago
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Lowering the cost of travel to 0 would mean implementing a technology by which anyone can simply desire to be somewhere else, and they will instantly teleport to that new location.

returnInfinity is simply lying about not doing double (or more!) the amount of travel in that case.

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theobreuerweil
42 minutes ago
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I’m sure that he/she would ride a lot more if it cost nothing, but I think the point is valid: even if Uber could 10x or 100x productivity, they could not do the same with income, because there is a limit to how much people actually need to go places.
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fnordpiglet
4 hours ago
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Because in modern society we equate toil with morality we will toil on ever more meaningless crap tasks for food coupons for food that costs nothing to produce but is withheld through artificial scarcity to ensure meaningless toil occupies our existence because of a philosophy from the 1700’s.
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ghufran_syed
3 hours ago
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I look forward to seeing your company actually producing and selling food for “next to nothing”, given how easy it apparently is
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CalRobert
2 hours ago
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Bulk grains, etc are pretty cheap.
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ehnto
1 hour ago
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That may waver, a main input across the whole chain for farming is crude oil.
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bandrami
49 minutes ago
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As of now, at least, nobody is actually seeing an increase of productivity from AI that shows up in any measurements anybody is making. So some of this talk is really getting ahead of the facts on the ground.
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laughing_man
2 hours ago
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We may very well end up with similar prices, a few stupendously wealthy people, and the rest of us living on the dole.
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baxtr
2 hours ago
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I wouldn’t say it’s impossible but I’d argue from all we know now highly unlikely.

Why? Assume a company has a high margin because they used AI and reduced their workforce by 10x. What usually happens is that a new competitor comes in and offers the same for half the price.

Since AI is lowering the bar for entry this process should be even faster than previously.

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Epa095
49 minutes ago
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What usually happens is that that competitors then gets disappeared. Either by a happy ending (it gets bought up), or it gets squeezed out.

Monopolies arise naturally unless we work hard to avoid them.

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bluefirebrand
13 minutes ago
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> Assume a company has a high margin because they used AI and reduced their workforce by 10x. What usually happens is that a new competitor comes in and offers the same for half the price.

Wouldn't you need 10x the number of competitors to get back to the same amount of employees, assuming they are running with similar workforces?

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overfeed
1 hour ago
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> If people don't have jobs they don't have money to buy and therefore ... prices will have to come down

Here's the one trick the oligarchs will not tell you: they intend to bill the government directly, they won't care if unemployment rises to 80%. They'll keep it up for however long the taxes and debt will last, and then jet off to their bunkers to usher in what comes next - or wait out the chaos.

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csomar
1 hour ago
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I like your optimistic view. The reality is that AI concentrates power and when power concentrates, the rulers can dictate. Democracy is not just voting but also a productive populace that has a voice in the production process.

The people on the top are not going to share sh*t. That's just not how greed works.

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bryanrasmussen
3 hours ago
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>better quality output.

that doesn't seem to follow necessarily.

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gosub100
1 hour ago
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> We can do this, in a democracy.

In a democracy where corporations have 0 representation, I would agree with you. However, they do have representation in a way that is invisible to see and impossible to quantify. And it goes beyond citizens united. There is an invisible hand pressing on the scales.

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intended
2 hours ago
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Eh, the line of better quality output is suspect.

I’ve been looking at AI productivity gains, and the idea that it’s better quality output is the weakest claim that can be made.

There ARE more software project starts, yes. This also means it’s a more crowded field to be noticed in.

Also productivity gains are HIGHLY variable. I see some people being 2x more effective, most people publicly willing to claim 30% efficiency gains, and a more likely 15% gain for most people.

At the same time, I hear of cases in content and media where it’s essentially a wipeout. I know of a story where a firm went to an advertisement agency with an AI generated video they wanted, and only wanted the animations cleaned up.

When they got the quote for the costs to have it done professionally, they decided to just go with the AI generated video.

Fraud is another area which is seeing a boom. The degree of information pollution we are seeing has also seen a step change.

This matters because all the rosy eyed theories of productivity gains from AI do not account for changes to our shared information commons.

The business cases that come to mind are Fast Fashion, and Coke vs Pepsi, and Tobacco.

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throwaway290
2 hours ago
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> But the same amount of economic output, probably more, will be produced because of AI

> Society as a whole will be better off because there is more output

> better quality output

citation needed

> By whom will that output then be consumed?

So there's this thing called "waste"...

> If people don't have jobs they don't have money to buy and therefore ... prices will have to come down!

Yeah, and falling prices and unemployment are sure signs of boom and prosperity...

> government that shares the fruits of AI with everybody, by way of progressive taxation. Government, use the taxes you collect to give us free food

and you think though that never happened is now possible because?

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striped_hash
11 hours ago
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I don’t think kids should be insulating from AI. The examples in this article suggest for example that some people are dropping out of college and going into trade schools. I get that society needs electricians and construction workers and new software graduates are finding it difficult to get jobs. But having had a moderately successful career building software, I tend to think there is a lot of scope for the $40 trillion white collar economy to be disrupted (re-imagined/made more efficient), so still see potential for software engineering demand to stay high over the next decade as the true ramifications of AI plays out. Am I biased/coping? Is this moving faster? Slower? - What should kids be aiming for according to you? Computer Scientist? Biologist? Finance? Construction?
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time0ut
11 hours ago
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Optimistically, I hope it filters out the people who were only interested in it for the money.

When I was in school, decades ago now, very few people went into CS compared to other majors. Everyone I knew going into it did it because they loved it. I would have done it regardless of the career opportunities because I want to build stuff.

Interviewing candidates over the years since then, my experience has been there are still very few of those passionate nerds and a lot of people who did it for other reasons, like the money or similar. There is nothing inherently wrong with this. I don’t fault people for it.

Maybe if we get very lucky, it will go back to a relatively few passionate people building stuff because it is cool?

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denkmoon
10 hours ago
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Having an industry’s labour supplied only by those inherently passionate about it is a great way to crush wages and working conditions. Look at what companies like Blizzard get away with because their employees just want to make video games at their favourite dev studio. While they’re a pain in the ass sometimes, I welcome the devs who are only here for the cash.
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alex43578
10 hours ago
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This is totally leaving out the supply and demand aspect. People like the idea of making games more than working on the plumbing of some accounts payable software, so Blizzard can pay less and treat worse than NicheBoringFinanceCo.
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KellyCriterion
1 hour ago
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>plumbing of some accounts payable software,

As many of us in the early IT generation, I came because of I wanted to build games and program cool stuff.

Today, while I admit Games are supercomplex stunning apps, I hate it and I love to do boring finance app development :-))

If you would have told me in my 20ies that I will end up in banking & finance IT, I would have laughed at you - today I really like it and I do not play a single game anymore.

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AnthonyMouse
4 hours ago
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Let's consider how this could play out:

If you need a lot of low quality code in a hurry, AI can definitely do that for you now. The path to making money by writing mediocre code for people who don't really care that much is going to look like managing a network of bots that constantly spit out a huge volume of code that kind of mostly works and if it sometimes doesn't then whatever. The people in it for the money can probably make a decent amount in the "high volume low quality" space.

Then there's the code that needs to actually work, or have some thought put into it. Consider the process of writing IETF RFCs. Can you get an LLM to spit out English text that conforms to their formatting? Absolutely you can. Is the RFC it emits going to be something you'll want to have the whole world trying to implement as a standard? Not likely. So the people doing that are going to be doing it something closer to the old way.

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davidw
4 hours ago
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I am kind of considering the idea of changing my LinkedIn profile to one of me with a 'wild rag', checkered shirt, and broad brimmed straw hat and calling myself a robot wrangler and see if I get any takers.
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Archonical
9 hours ago
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The parent comment is describing supply and demand. If Blizzard attracts a larger supply of workers who will accept lower pay and worse conditions because they intrinsically want the job, Blizzard gains leverage. That is exactly why studios like Blizzard can get away with more than “NicheBoringFinanceCo.”
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alex43578
7 hours ago
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If an “industry’s labour [is] supplied only by those inherently passionate about it” the post says it would “crush wages and working conditions”.

That runs completely counter to the basics of supply and demand in a perfect competition market. It would be market with far fewer (labor) suppliers, who could therefore command a higher wage, not lower.

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dwohnitmok
6 hours ago
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You are only looking at supply. Neither supply nor demand by themselves adequately describe prices (even in supply-demand 101 theory; in practice of course it gets significantly more complicated than just supply and demand). There are fields with few suppliers where supply is extremely cheap and fields with few suppliers where supply is extremely expensive.

Is the number of suppliers low because demand is also low or is the number of suppliers low because demand is high but supply is constrained?

A field that previously had a supply of labor in it "for the money" who all leave is indicative of the former scenario not the latter.

That does not lead to higher wages. That leads to low wages.

(There are a variety of reasons why this story is too simple and why I remain uncertain about developer salaries in the short term)

There is a broader question of whether having people who are in it for the money leave independently "causes" wages to go down (e.g. if you were to replace all such people with people "purely in it for the passion"). My suspicion is yes. Mainly because wage markets are somewhat inefficient, there are always mild cartel-like/cooperative effects in any market, people in it for passion tend to undersell labor and the people in it for the money are much less likely to undersell their labor and this spills over beneficially to the former.

Note that this broader question is simply unanswerable assuming perfect competition, i.e. a supply-demand 101 perspective (which is why it doesn't make sense to posit "perfect competition" for this question).

It posits durable behavioral differences among suppliers that are not determined purely by supply and demand which do not update reliably in the face of pricing. This is equivalent to market friction and hence fundamentally contradicts an assumption of perfect competition.

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terminalshort
6 hours ago
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To use your example of someone working on the plumbing of an accounts payable system, who is passionate about that? The supply is near zero. That, like most jobs, is going to need to be done entirely by people who are just doing it for the money, and there is nothing wrong with that.

Your example runs counter to the laws of supply and demand too. You understand that wages will rise when supply is restricted, but you don't want to accept that supply will respond to the price signal in the form of more people entering that job market.

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bryanrasmussen
4 hours ago
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> That, like most jobs, is going to need to be done entirely by people who are just doing it for the money

why then do they all have those interview rounds where you have to talk about what really attracted you to work at this boring company and how you would love to do that kind of work? They evidently haven't gotten the memo.

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raw_anon_1111
4 hours ago
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I have never once pretended to be “passionate” about working. Never wrote a single line of code that I haven’t gotten paid for since I graduated from college 30 years ago. I was a hobbyist before college for 6 years.

I’ve gone through the BigTech guantlet successfully. Even then I showed I cared about doing my job well and competently.

I have purposefully thrown nuggets out during interviews letting companies know that I had a life outside of work, I’m not going to work crazy hours and in the latter half of my career, I don’t do on call.

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terminalshort
2 hours ago
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Nobody at any serious company asks retarded questions like that or expects retarded answers like that.
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icehawk
6 hours ago
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Except that there are a LOT of people that want to work in video games (which is the supply) which then depresses the price (wages)

All of my developer friends in the gaming industry have had far worse working conditions then what I've had.

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deterministic
5 hours ago
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There are plenty of non-games software companies that are treating devs purely.

However almost all of the companies I have worked for in my 30+ years career treated devs well.

So if you are in a shitty situation, I highly recommend finding another job instead of just placing yourself over a barrel.

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sb057
10 hours ago
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See also: public school teachers. You either need to be insanely passionate or incredibly stupid to take ~$55k/year for long hours as an educator that is also a babysitter. And insanely passionate teachers are in short supply.
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boringg
7 hours ago
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I bet a lot of teachers look at what devs do and think that its also insane to sit in front of computer all day, in a no boundary job, working on something you really don't care about and is potentially really bad for civilization only to make money off and lose your sense of self.
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notesinthefield
7 hours ago
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My spouse has expressed this nearly verbatim after transitioning out of a 16 year career in middle and grade school education to medical curriculum development. It was hell on her mental health but at least there was a clear motivation and purpose for being there.
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EricDeb
16 minutes ago
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average salary of a high school teacher in seattle is 90k plus you get summers off.. doesnt seem too bad..
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raw_anon_1111
4 hours ago
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There are a lot of other benefits of being a teacher especially if it’s a secondary income in a two income family. Namely you are on the same schedule as your kids. My mom is a retired high school teacher.
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alex43578
7 hours ago
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Long hours? Teachers work the same hours or less than other adults per “New Measures of Teachers’ Work Hours and Implications for Wage Comparisons” by West.

“Teachers work an average of 34.5 hours per week on an annual basis (38.0 hours per week during the school year and 21.5 hours per week during the summer months).”

That’s leaving out the benefits of incredibly strong union protections, it being a state job with matched benefits, absurd job security even in the face of terrible performance, etc.

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tdeck
5 hours ago
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There's no way these numbers can be correct. My school was 8 am to 3 PM, that's 35 hours a week right there for full time teachers. But teachers spend many more hours outside the class preparing lessons, grading work, and following up on things. If you even spend a week teaching something you quickly realize how much extra prep work goes into it.
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alex43578
2 hours ago
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From the study: "Teachers work more than they are required to work by contract, but less than self reported hours of work. I find that teachers are more likely to overestimate their hours of work in the CPS than workers in other occupations, and conclude that this is likely because of an uneven work year".

Even by your own example, you're only at 35 hours a week, and that's before you subtract out the weeks of summer vacation, winter vacation, spring break, etc; where the workload is certainly far less than 40 hours a week.

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nullstyle
7 hours ago
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“ benefits of incredibly strong union protections”

Lol, try saying that to an alaskan teachers face and watch yourself get slapped for the absurdity of the claim.

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alex43578
6 hours ago
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The Alaskan teacher's union is ranked 15th overall in the US [1]. I'm betting they're just fine, and that any issues are more general "Alaska-problems" than anything specific to teaching, unions, etc.

https://fordhaminstitute.org/national/research/how-strong-ar...

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mylifeandtimes
7 hours ago
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Wait-- I think you are confusing "teachers" with "police officers".
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ddorian43
10 hours ago
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Where are the gamedevs in it for the money?
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cabalamat
10 hours ago
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Working on boring accounts software.
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sunir
10 hours ago
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I think you have the law of supply and demand backwards.
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Thanemate
10 hours ago
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>Optimistically, I hope it filters out the people who were only interested in it for the money.

I hope not, because we don't need software developers to be "starving artist 2.0".

And on that note: I vividly remember people staying away from the video game development industry because it was deemed "passion industry", and that had a really negative connotation of long working hours for asymmetrical return, and more.

I don't look forward for every other software engineering branch to become like that.

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hyperadvanced
6 hours ago
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Seems… improbable. There will certainly be less of us, but the fact remains that nobody wants to debug this shite vibecoded apps companies are pushing, and some simply are not able because of skill atrophy and perverse incentives to use AI at the cost of stability.
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Hasslequest
10 hours ago
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Brother, we need to eat. You don't need to go to college to learn about some topic, you can pirate textbooks. You need to go to college to get a piece of paper saying you did. If you were passionate about computer programming, you can do it in your free time while you flip burgers or do whatever you need to survive
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viccis
6 hours ago
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>You need to go to college to get a piece of paper saying you did. If you were passionate about computer programming, you can do it in your free time while you flip burgers or do whatever you need to survive

This is a naive view of the average (or even above average) person's approach to learning, as well as an overly cynical read on the intellectually motivating atmosphere that comes from earnestly engaging in an academic environment.

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raw_anon_1111
4 hours ago
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I really wish this entire romanticism of the good old days when people only got into computer science because they breathed ate and dreamed about computers would die.

It was never reality - I graduated in 1996 and have worked at 10 jobs everything from lifestyle companies, to startups, to boring old enterprise to BigTech and now consulting companies. To a tee everyone has treated it like a job and not some religious calling. There is absolutely nothing wrong with coming to work at 8 leaving at 6 and not thinking about computers until the next day.

You don’t need to be doing side projects and open source contributions to do your job as a software developer anymore than a surgeon needs to be performing operations at home.

No I wouldn’t have chosen a major because I enjoyed it if it didn’t make any money. I didn’t then and I still haven’t found a method to get over my addiction to food and shelter.

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jazzpush2
4 hours ago
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That's just your experience, though. It reflects mine, before I went to elite companies, where it is quite normal for people to live-and-breath software, at almost all hours.
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raw_anon_1111
3 hours ago
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And by definition most developers don’t work at “elite” companies. I hope you don’t call your average FAANG and adjacent “elite”.

And if you think that is normal, it’s honestly kind of sad.

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bumblehean
3 hours ago
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>before I went to elite companies, where it is quite normal for people to live-and-breath software, at almost all hours.

Honest question: Do they actually _want_ to live-and-breathe software, or do they work in a highly competitive and highly compensated environment where doing that is implicitly required?

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ryandrake
3 hours ago
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This is never normal, and should not be normalized.
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drivebyhooting
11 hours ago
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I only went into SWE for the money.

I initially pursued my real passion which was math and physics and got a cold water bucket to the face only after grad school.

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KellyCriterion
1 hour ago
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So you didnt tap your toe into a real dev environment before that second? :-)
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array_key_first
10 hours ago
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> Maybe if we get very lucky, it will go back to a relatively few passionate people building stuff because it is cool?

I think we basically lost this when software/computer/internet entered the mainstream. Now, like everything else, it has to be bland, unoffensive, and a commodity.

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underlipton
7 hours ago
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I'm not saying that this is an incorrect read, but I think it's important to consider that young people might be responding to the general desperation of a tight labor market across the last generation. It used to be that you could get a degree - any degree - and that would be enough to get you in the conversation for a position somewhere. Today, a degree isn't any sort of guarantee of any sort of job - in your field, entry level, dead-end retail, anything. Tuition skyrocketed and only a few fields kept pace. So, you get the degree in the field that's a "winner." Of course, this just increases competition, robs other fields of needed competency, etc. Prisoner's dilemma?
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archagon
4 hours ago
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I think it will actually filter out people who weren't doing it for the money.
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ctoth
9 hours ago
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> What should kids be aiming for according to you? Computer Scientist? Biologist? Finance? Construction?

Can you sit down with an unfamiliar domain and develop enough genuine curiosity to get good at it, without a syllabus or a credential dangling in front of you?

The kids who'll do well in a world where the field-to-security mapping keeps shifting are the ones who can self-direct — not the ones who picked the right field in 2026.

Although full disclosure I'm short humans and very long paperclips.

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striped_hash
8 hours ago
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> The kids who'll do well in a world where the field-to-security mapping keeps shifting are the ones who can self-direct — not the ones who picked the right field in 2026.

Agreed that if someone can self direct and is capable, they’ll do better. Assuming two people who are similar in that regard, what are professions that may benefit from AI rather than hurt because of it.

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syphia
3 hours ago
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> Can you sit down with an unfamiliar domain and develop enough genuine curiosity to get good at it, without a syllabus or a credential dangling in front of you?

Do I have faith that I'll be compensated according to my developed ability?

Looking broadly at the recent past, the correct answer seems "no".

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fragmede
9 hours ago
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> full disclosure I'm short humans and very long paperclips.

What does that mean in practice? Are there specific stock market bets you've made because of that world view?

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justonepost2
7 hours ago
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> Although full disclosure I'm short humans and very long paperclips.

What a ludicrous world we live in where this is a socially acceptable view to hold.

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alvah
5 hours ago
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What a ludicrous reply, to suggest it should be "socially unacceptable" to believe the Paperclip Maximizer thought experiment might reveal a scenario that is bad for humans overall.
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CalRobert
2 hours ago
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Reality doesn’t give a shit about your beliefs, as the saying goes.
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crop_rotation
11 hours ago
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Even if people assume the worst impacts of LLMs on white collar work, there is simply not enough demand for electricians and plumbers for that to work, right now these professions work only because the number of people going into them is limited.
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F7F7F7
8 hours ago
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You sound like you're not a home owner. In populated areas it could take a week to get a electrician or plumber out. And contractors are hard to find.
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asdff
5 hours ago
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It takes a week because if you want it fast they charge you an emergency rate. This aspect of the tradesman is independent of demand and one of the perks of their lines of work much like over time in other fields.
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Capricorn2481
2 hours ago
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They charge you an emergency rate because they are so booked out it takes a week to get them.
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dspillett
7 hours ago
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Development is the same though.

If things play out I see there being two classes of low paid developers in a decade or so: the first being the vibe coders who earn a subsistence wage because most people can do it (not everyone, there will still be a cost of entry, paying for the tools, which will exclude some groups), the second being the more “artisnal” developers working on the things that can't (yet) be vide coded and fixing up the problems caused by insufficient care by the vibers and those employing them. These will be low paid because while the work is important demand will be low and there will still be a fair few people with the skills and desire (they'll make ends meet between good jobs by taking on gig-economy vide-coding work themselves). There will be a lucky few still making a decent living, but a much lower proportion than now.

I'm hoping to arrange retirement before things get that far… Failing that I'll do something else (I could be a sparky, though if all the youngsters are training for that perhaps that industry will gain a bad supply/demand picture from the worker's PoV too!) to pay the bills and reclaim dicking around with tech as a hobby.

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selectodude
8 hours ago
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And their elevated pay is a function of all the other folks making a ton of money in white collar PMC work.
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striped_hash
8 hours ago
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Agree.
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andrekandre
1 hour ago
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  > I tend to think there is a lot of scope for the $40 trillion white collar economy to be disrupted (re-imagined/made more efficient), so still see potential for software engineering demand to stay high over the next decade as the true ramifications of AI plays out.
i would hope so, but wherever i have worked its the bureaucracy/endless "agile" ceremonies and meetings that make things less efficient, and so far (where i'm at anyways) ai has done nothing to help that...
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eucyclos
5 hours ago
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>What should kids be aiming for according to you?

If it's my kid? Starting their own Enterprise. Between 'good enough' knowledge work getting cheaper and the bureaucracy that made entrepreneurship less attractive over the last decades being either trimmed or automatable, we may be looking at a golden age of new business formation. There's an old saying, "genius is one percent inspiration and ninety nine percent perspiration". If ai shifts that to just 2 and 98, it'll unlock massive demand for a certain kind of mind.

How to teach that I'm still pondering. One idea that occurs to me, is that a human will always be needed to ask the right questions and have good taste, but I don't know how to teach those. They can probably only be educated, which in my mind is distinct from teaching. A different idea I have is that an entrepreneur needs three skills: they need to identify a problem, implement a solution, and get paid for it. Those skills probably can be taught, so I'd try to ensure they get early reps in all three.

If I knew how to connect those two ideas I think I'd have a decent curriculum. Anyone have suggestions for that?

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logicchains
13 minutes ago
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Entrepreneurship is like sales; it can't really be taught, only learned through practice, through trial and error. The best way for kids to learn business is through doing it.
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chromacity
10 hours ago
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The prevailing sentiment on HN is that AI will make coders 10x more productive, but that we'll all keep our jobs and salaries, with the possible exception of people who don't embrace AI quickly enough.

But let me ask you this: has AI made life easier for illustrators, book authors, or musicians? They were affected by the technology earlier on. If they don't embrace AI, they face increased competition from cheaply-made products that the average consumer can't distinguish from the "real" thing. But if they embrace it, they can't differentiate themselves from the cheaply-produced content! In fact, for artists, the best strategy may be to speak out very vocally against AI, reject it early on, and build a following of like-minded consumers.

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acdha
7 hours ago
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It’s also not exactly a secret that the executive class resents having to pay high-income workers and is champing at the bit for layoffs. Even if you fully embrace AI, they want white collar jobs to look more like call center work with high surveillance, less autonomy, and constant reminders of replaceability. Most people saw through that “our people are our greatest asset” talk before, but they’re not even trying anymore.
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fragmede
5 hours ago
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We just need to be bold enough to take risks and replace the executive class with an AI agent that's been trained on Machiavelli and the Wealth of Nations and all of the rest of the written word to write the layoff letter in corpo speak anyway. Waiting for the AI bot that gets paid $10mm/year to be a CEO.
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asdff
5 hours ago
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The thing is, for most artists outside say in commercial work where AI is a great risk to jobs, they are judged by the finery of their craft, not rate of output. How many clients are there who say "we don't care how long it takes for you to come up with the solution, we just want it beautiful and representative of your style."
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CalRobert
2 hours ago
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I think you just described a tiny minority of artists though.
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NegativeLatency
4 hours ago
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Automation worked out great for domestic manufacturing in the US /s
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marcus_holmes
8 hours ago
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The thing I'm seeing in people's use of LLMs is that there's still a strong contrast in technical usage of them.

I went to the local Claude Code meetup last week, and the contrast between the first two speakers really stuck with me.

The first was an old-skool tech guy who was using teams of agents to basically duplicate what an entire old-fashioned dev team would do.

The second was a "non-technical" (she must have said this at least 20 times in her talk) product manager using the LLM to prototype code and iterate on design choices.

Both are replacing dev humans with LLMs, but there's a massive difference in the technical complexity of their use. And I've heard this before talking to other people; non-technical folks are using it to write code and are amazed with how it's going, while technical folks are next-level using skills, agents, etc to replace whole teams.

I can see how this becomes a career in its own right; not writing code any more, but wrangling agents (or whatever comes after them). The same kind of mental aptitude that gets us good code can also be used to solve these problems, too.

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toofy
5 hours ago
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and the things the first person is doing can very very easily be trained into a bot as well.

this doesn’t seem like a safe direction either.

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saltyoldman
8 hours ago
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You're coping. Everyone wants a remote software job. These are dead. If you want something in software, it will need to be robotics or space related and you'll drive to a location to do it.

If you want to be in a remote, small town, get into construction and become a builder with their own GC license in a few years. Then charge people 400k to build that little dream cottage with 2 guys (you and a team mate) twice a year. 150k each 100k mats for each house. Just a small warning: It's hard but real work and very rewarding.

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adamtaylor_13
7 hours ago
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Wha do you mean these are dead? I work a remote software job and it ain't going anywhere from what I can see.
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saltyoldman
5 hours ago
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I could have elaborated, but long term this line of work is dead. Will there be software engineers in 20 years? Can't tell you, but it won't be in the millions like it is now. Will those people KNOW a programming language? probably not. At some point the sheer amount of capabilities of agents will just keep going up and us humans are still writing buggy code. Waymo just declared that it's drivers are something like 13x better than human drivers... Agentic has only been around for what, 1 years maybe 2 if you count closed betas.
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raw_anon_1111
4 hours ago
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Interesting, I’ve been working remotely at “remote first departments/companies for 6 years across 3 jobs.

Admittedly the first was at BigTech in a “field by design” role that went RTO last year a year after I left.

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ardeaver
2 hours ago
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I've always felt that AI's main contribution to eliminating jobs is giving CEOs the ability to do layoffs while trying to both separate themselves from the current economic uncertainty and imply that they are an AI company.

Companies do this all the time. A CEO's job is to convince investors that their company stands to win in whatever the current hot trend is. During bitcoin's crazy run in like 2022 or whatever, a ton of tech companies were hopping on the bandwagon and branding themselves as a blockchain company. Look at Block/Square. The current trend is that AI is hot and the economy isn't. Therefore, it's beneficial to the stock price to tell your investors that you're laying off 50% of your staff because you're AI-powered. Just look at Block/Square. My experience has been that most companies have an incredibly patchwork implementation of AI, and that most of the work that they do (particularly larger companies) isn't made more efficient by using AI.

In a few years, there will be some new hotness, and all companies will be saying that the DNA of their company is whatever that is.

As for the current uncertainty in the job market, when you randomly have 50% tariffs slapped on goods you need and can't readily find available in the US for the same price and find that 20% of the world's oil supply is cut off, you tend to not want to invest in the future. Talking about AI is cheap. Tariffs are expensive.

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karakoram
1 hour ago
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> Talking about AI is cheap.

AI is about to get a lot more expensive as Taiwan (TSMC) and other South East Asian chip manufacturers don't get their Natural Gas or the Natural Gas they need becomes really expensive.

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ardeaver
1 hour ago
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I'd be interested to see if the actual cost of AI will actually have any impact on how often CEOs end up talking about it. In my experience, there's a certain level of assessment that goes into whether or not a line item on your expenses is considered a problem or an investment. If you can still hand wave your way into convincing investors that $200K in AI credits replaces 3 $200K/year software engineers, even though it used to be $100K for the same amount of credits, you might be fine. At some point, some part of that equation will likely fall out of favor with investors or the math will no longer work out, and maybe it's the cost of natural gas or helium.
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ReptileMan
1 hour ago
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Energy is minor part of the cost. Now helium is something else
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citrin_ru
28 minutes ago
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I assume TSMC is not only helium consumer so in reduced supply situation they’ll pay more and someone else will end up without helium.
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DeathArrow
1 hour ago
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>AI is about to get a lot more expensive as Taiwan (TSMC) and other South East Asian chip manufacturers don't get their Natural Gas or the Natural Gas they need becomes really expensive.

Also, before the war Trump got GCC countries to promise they will invest $ 2 billion into AI. Now those money will probably not come anymore.

Also, the power will get more expensive, so running AI data centers will be more expensive.

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cal_dent
9 hours ago
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I still don't understand the logic that any job is safe from ai (if it lives up to expectations). Sure, it might not be directly impacted by ai but why is there this expectation that the excess labour from those directly impacted doesnt act to suppress the earning power of other jobs?

Especially considering that the implication is that humans just become a pair of hands with opposable thumbs?. Take the electrician in the article, sure its a skilled job but the barrier into it drops massively imo if you can just take a picture of whatever issue is at hand and ai spits out what is needed, no?

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tavavex
2 hours ago
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> I still don't understand the logic that any job is safe from ai (if it lives up to expectations). Sure, it might not be directly impacted by ai but why is there this expectation that the excess labour from those directly impacted doesnt act to suppress the earning power of other jobs?

I don't get what's illogical in this statement. If people are displaced, everyone will know that the value of other work will go down too, but they'll still try to get into those other fields because they may still offer better prospects and a paid job (even at a low wage). That doesn't sound bad compared to a situation where you can't get a job in your field regardless of your demands. Besides, if we get to that situation, basically every job will be impacted, so it's not like keeping the tight grip on your current career will be more likely to save you.

> Take the electrician in the article, sure its a skilled job but the barrier into it drops massively imo if you can just take a picture of whatever issue is at hand and ai spits out what is needed, no?

That works well until an electrician who follows LLM instructions starts a fire or fries themselves. It's true that automation can still make their work faster, but the value of electricians isn't going to zero any time soon because there's a reason why governments still want them to know what they're doing. As soon as you touch jobs that could result in you directly killing others or yourself, there's usually licensing and regulations all over the place. All of that is additional barriers to being fully replaced on a whim. If this automation gets to you, at least you're all the way back in the line, and it won't be as bad as the others.

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GorbachevyChase
5 hours ago
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I don’t think we have any way of knowing what will happen. We’re in such an age of abundance now that it’s possible to make a living fighting with your girlfriends in Salt Lake City. Graphite block warehouse owners in China can be celebrities in the US. The influencer economy would have seems unthinkable and absurd in the 90s. What will be normal 30 years from now will probably seem just as bizarre. I’d like to think we will be colonizing other worlds, but it will probably be just more service economy excess like pet therapy and Uber-for-friendship.
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rootusrootus
7 hours ago
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Agreed, there would definitely be knock-on effects. If a bunch of people who were otherwise going to be software developers decide to focus their career on the trades, then the wages for trades jobs will drop.
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charcircuit
43 minutes ago
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>then the wages for trades jobs will drop.

This does not seem like a straightforward conclusion. It could instead result in more physical projects being able to be done as it removes bottlenecks due to limitations of laborers. There is not a fixed amount of work that needs to be done in the world, humans can make up new work they want done.

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ares623
7 hours ago
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And if the wages drop, then there will be less demand of those trades, and when there's less demand, ...
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tavavex
2 hours ago
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Some of the trades are non-negotiables that have to be done regardless of the current economic situation. They'll be hurt too by the overall cheapening of labor, but those have the best odds of making it through.
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margorczynski
10 hours ago
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The "go into trades" thing has two major flaws:

1) The supply of work will skyrocket when everyone will flock there for work

2) Demand will plummet as the white collar people who bought these services will loose their jobs and income

And of course if robotics will get solved to an acceptable degree most of those jobs will also get mostly automated.

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yojo
9 hours ago
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Having spent a couple years rehabbing a 100 year old house, I’m convinced the trades will be the last thing to go. When the building you’re working on has been ship-of-Theseus’d by 3 generations of home owners, everything is out of distribution.

When a robot can reliably do this work, I think it can reliably do any human job that requires physical ability and judgement.

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samrus
8 hours ago
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But the problem wont be the robots. Itll be the flood of new workers who will offer to rehab the place cheaper than you. And itll be that the white collar owners of the house wont have enough money to blow on a rehab bwcause their desk jobs are getting replaced by AI
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beej71
9 hours ago
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It's not the robots that are going to blow the floor out of the trades; it's the legions of people joining the trades that will do it.
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Animats
4 hours ago
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We really need automated roofing. Installing shingles is easy, except that it has to be done on top of buildings. There's an experimental roofing robot, but it's not good enough for production yet.[1]

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60DqYMO_nRE

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CalRobert
1 hour ago
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Metal roofs seem nice and easier to install too, but at least where I had a house built (Ireland) the local planners (aka meddling old people with too much time) thought it wasn’t suitable for a “home” so you had to spend four times as much on a slate roof.
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NegativeLatency
4 hours ago
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Especially if you get into a specialized trade for people with money.

I’ve repaired a lot of my historic windows myself because of how expensive it is to get someone else to do it. (Quoted 8k for one leaded glass window) I think it’s become my new backup job if I really am replaced by a computer.

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ivankra
2 hours ago
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Eh, it's been cheaper and better for a long time to just demolish and rebuild rather than deal with neverending issues at major fixer uppers. Robots probably would be able to do uncomplicated cookie-cutter builds in a decade or two, there's just too much money in the construction sector that AI companies looking for the next big thing to disrupt can't ignore.
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ares623
7 hours ago
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If the other 2 comments still make it hard to understand, South Park had a great episode explaining this.
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cal_dent
9 hours ago
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My thoughts exactly. I do think people tend to frame things in a developed economies sort of way when the worst fears of ai is actually more akin to a developing/emerging economy framework. And that says when where there's lump of labour available, most aren't earning that within trades.
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tjwebbnorfolk
10 hours ago
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Pipes don't care about how much you would like to spend on it. They will leak when they are ready to leak.
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throwaway290
2 hours ago
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and if they leak when you don't have the money to fix it, you just live for as long as possible with leaky pipes, then try to fix it yourself and MAYBE you shop for cheapest plumber possible. end result, plumber earns less because you are broke
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lasky
2 hours ago
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Other forces that contribute to the "AI is taking our jobs" narrative:

- Layoffs due to insufficient demand in uncertain economic times

- Companies selling AI need to claim "we are so great with AI we don't need as many people." Layoffs unlock AI budgets.

- It justifies all the capital allocation into AI.

- Companies in the AI industry shock the government into learned helplessness, so they can write policy that is on their terms.

What am I missing?

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HNisCIS
2 hours ago
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Yeah if anything this recession feels demand driven rather than labor replacement driven. Nobody wants to do capex or buy things when everyone is telling them they're going to get replaced with jpeg-for-text so they aren't. As a result most of the economy isn't moving particularly fast with the exception of people buying up the entire worlds supply of silicon and driving up prices on increasingly essential hardware. So we have stagnation and inflation all in one but from the dumbest possible source.
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ilaksh
6 hours ago
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There is no such thing as an AI-proof career.

Look at recent output from leading edge humanoid robotics projects like 1X/Neo, Figure 03, Skild AI. Also see open published work like MimicDroid, HDMI, GenMimic, Humanoid-Union Dataset, RoboMirror, Being-H0

Figure 03:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-31-KBBuXM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUTzuhkDG3w

1X Neo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lS_z60kjVEk

Skild AI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRmjBdKKLsc (Learning by Watching Human Videos)

Mimic

https://youtu.be/_LkBFL5m1WU?si=Qvgb7vkpG_KCAJdN

There is a ton of very useful recent progress with imitation learning and related datasets. There is also some work on learning from large scale video like Youtube.

We are months away from the ChatGPT moment in humanoid robotics where a project launch or demo makes people finally realize that they are general purpose.

The only way we could have AI proof careers is if humanoid robotics were to completely stop progressing. Since it's been advancing very rapidly, that makes no sense.

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theteapot
5 hours ago
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I dunno. I trained as a software engineer, pivoted to civil laborer. I just can't see a robot doing 90% of the stuff I do anytime soon. Same goes for plumber, electrician, ... even most mobile plant operations. As a supplement around the edges, sure. But replace? Not in the near term. And that's not even considering the safety certification moats around skilled labor roles.
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CharlieDigital
5 hours ago
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I'm think event photography is another.

It's one thing to use AI to touch up photos, but in the end, you probably still want photos that match your memories and good photography still has an element of taste and creativity.

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wolvoleo
5 hours ago
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Yeah I think with all the AI slop around, people are going to value 'real' a lot more.
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NoPicklez
3 hours ago
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> There is no such thing as an AI-proof career.

Proof as in much less likely to be significantly disrupted by AI within the next couple/few decades, well I definitely think so.

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vhantz
5 hours ago
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Pfew, if the biggest threat is from humanoid, then there is nothing to worry about
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rogerrogerr
6 hours ago
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AI-proof is probably the wrong way to look at it, but there is substantial advantage in being in one of the _last_ to be automated industries. Social safety nets and such are probably set up by the time the robots come for the last jobs.
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bilbo0s
6 hours ago
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>Social safety nets and such are probably set up by the time the robots come for the last jobs.

What makes you think "Social safety nets" will be the solution the élites land on?

If we were to wargame out different scenarios, we'd likely find there are a lot of potential solutions to the problem of large masses of people who are not useful to the cause of productivity in your society.

Giving non-élites a social safety net is actually one of the most resource intensive solutions. Not saying our oligarchs would not choose that solution. Just pointing out that it would severely impact their bottom lines. More than almost any other solution in fact.

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porknubbins
5 hours ago
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If elites do not provide a social safety net why would the masses respect their elite status and resource endowments anyway?

Unless you are suggesting billionaires build private armies in some sort of neo feudalism, there are no elites who are not dependant on the existing social structure.

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closewith
3 hours ago
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Private companies literally are building drone armies right now. Are you sure their use will be limited to Ukraine and the Middle East?
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yabutlivnWoods
5 hours ago
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On the upside they'll all generationally churn out of life, acting as a forcing function on future decisions.

Time isn't linear. No guarantees we march right along handing batons to the next age group. Which generation will be future elites making the choices come from?

Millennials and GenZ (despite a blip towards Trump in 2024, they blipped hard away from him as his policies of 2025 hit them hardest) are trending progressive as they age.

And Millennials and GenZ outnumber a GenX population that is the only cohort to not sour on Trump. GenX influence will rapidly shrink as Boomers churn out.

No linear time. No single clock all living things tick to. Meaning the population composition is not guaranteed to exist such that the old ways are the future. No guarantee 50 year middle managers waiting patiently end up elites in control. They might be too copy paste and conservative.

https://fortune.com/2025/08/07/gen-x-ceos-decreasing-baby-bo...

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bilbo0s
2 hours ago
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I don't know about this analysis?

Number one, Trump won the presidency on the strength of his support from younger generations of Americans. It remains to be seen whether or not those younger generations will turn against Trumpism.

Number two, GenX. Not only is GenX is the generation that voted against Trumpism the most statistically speaking, they are also the smallest generation. ie - the least statistically relevant where votes are concerned. (Which is why it didn't really matter that they voted against Trump.)

I agree with your assertion that the Boomers will churn out. I disagree that it will matter that Boomers churn out. Mainly because support for Trump-like policies is, again, strongest among the younger generations. The younger generations are literally how the guy won the presidency and they will represent more of the populace in the future, not less. So until I actually see millennials and GenZ vote against Trump-like policies, I'm not really sure how things get better?

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bitwize
5 hours ago
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The Canadian social safety net has big enough holes that rather than incur the costs as a first resort, the Canadian government has taken to passing out "are you aware of your options regarding MAID?" pamphlets to decidedly non-terminal patients.

There's only one way to AI-proof yourself: become enormously rich and join the Davos class.

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laughing_man
2 hours ago
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I'm not convinced the current job market turbulence, at least in the US, has anything to do with LLMs. It's just as likely companies are blaming "AI", which has a sort of inevitable feel to it, while they outsource jobs to lower cost countries.
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HNisCIS
2 hours ago
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The admin is doing everything in its power to cause everyone heartburn and the billionaire class is just running around trying to double down on all the damage the admin is doing. During "good" times I think people would have an easier time looking at AI and seeing it as just another random tool rather than the end of days, but when everything looks like the end of days...
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bryanrasmussen
3 hours ago
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I've been seeing a lot of ads on buses in the area (Copenhagen, Denmark) which suggest trade schools because AI won't be taking your job.
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jongjong
10 hours ago
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Disturbingly, AI is set to replace essentially any position that is useful, to the extent that it is useful and somehow some people still think they should adapt themselves to the system instead of working to adapt the system to them!

Basically all that would be left of desk jobs would be those which have unfair legal powers (including via licenses and credentials) or are pure accountability plays. Like politicians, lawyers, aircraft pilots, corporate accountants... And those jobs will suck because people will be accountable for work that is not their own.

These jobs won't require any skills because most people may be able to go through their entire career without doing any work. But they will get paid a lot just for having being selected for their position... While other people who may be more skilled than them might be broke and homeless.

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nprateem
5 hours ago
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And yet someone has to actually tell the AI what to create. There's just no avoiding this.

Anyway before this AI doomerism can become reality AI first needs the breakthrough of genuine understanding to stop making stupid mistakes. Imitation will always remain imitation.

There must be eg an understanding of casualty and reasoning on the same level as we have, not the useless "You're absolutely right" you get now when you point it its mistakes.

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asdff
5 hours ago
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>And yet someone has to actually tell the AI what to create. There's just no avoiding this.

Yes there is, just stop creating. Or take a page from biology, and use random mutation and natural selection to iterate on useful novel functions.

Honestly, once AI takes all the jobs, game over, why iterate anything else. Planet captured. Humanity hunted down to the last bands of troglodytes holding out in the wilderness. It would be strongly against their interest to just assume we'd starve quietly.

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casey2
1 hour ago
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I like the choice of firefighter. Though it is a super tough and physically demanding job. When there is lots of uncertainty jobs like these increase certainty. On the west coast more people taking these jobs will more than pay for themselves due to depressing insurance premiums.

We need lots of firefighters on call when landowners do control burns for example. It's a short window.

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ReptileMan
1 hour ago
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Praying mostly...

Neither of the strategies in the article here scales.

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whatever1
3 hours ago
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Specialized shoemakers lost their jobs to generic shoe factory workers but there is more shoe consumption than ever before in history.

LLMs like manufacturing will multiply the coding throughput. Likely the mythical 10x swe will not be as valuable, but the work expectation from anyone in the field will just multiply.

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h4kunamata
9 hours ago
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They are doing nothing!!

1) No matter the age, they are using said AI to replace human

2) Within workplace, they are using AI to do their work so they are learning nothing

3) That is it, people are using AI to replace their own work rather than improve it, people are driving themselves out of work.

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stephen_cagle
11 hours ago
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I'm somewhat skeptical of this "enter the trades" movement. Actually, I am more skeptical of that statement than I am of LLM's replacing white collar work in general. I think parts of coding are being replaced quickly because they are the parts that don't require discernment. Trades likely contain just as many automatable and just as many discernment parts as white collar work. At this moment in history, the automatable parts are being automated in the knowledge based world. People think the physical world is somehow different, but with world models (along the full spectrum of what that means) the physical world will be just as trainable as the knowledge based world.

tldr; Just like knowledge work, most trade stuff is probably mostly repeated (i.e. very trainable) task with a small amount of taste and discernment applied. The repeated will be trainable, the discernment may be trainable. I don't think the physical world is necessarily any safer than the knowledge world.

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Loughla
10 hours ago
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The difference is the physical aspect of the trades. The design for wiring can be (and already has been) automated, but you physically need an electrician on site to pull the wires. So I can see a hollowing out of the engineers, but not the actual electricians.

That being said, the absolute focus on trades from the fed right now just reeks of the wild pendulum swing. It used to be 'go to college to get a good job' then we had too many college grads. In ten years we'll have a glut of people trained in the trades with no prospects.

It just keeps swinging back and forth and somehow Joe Regularworker keeps losing.

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terminalshort
6 hours ago
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Yeah, things change. What do you propose to do about that? The only people who lose are the ones who can't accept that they may need to change careers to make more money.
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xp84
9 hours ago
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Indeed. If you squint a little, it kind of looks like the machines are trying to shift to a world where we are just meat puppets to do the tricky stuff there aren't robotics for (yet). :(
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skirmish
5 hours ago
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Cory Doctorow's "The Reverse-Centaur’s Guide to Criticizing AI" [1] agrees with you:

"<...> a reverse centaur is machine head on a human body, a person who is serving as a squishy meat appendage for an uncaring machine."

[1] https://doctorow.medium.com/https-pluralistic-net-2025-12-05...

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bizzletk
5 hours ago
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Or humans are just the "sex organs" that work to bring about the artificial life-forms that come next.
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mycall
10 hours ago
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Have you seen what Unitree G1 can already do? I see the writing on the walls for going onsite and pulling wires.
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array_key_first
10 hours ago
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Robots are expensive, software is not. I can instantly duplicate software 1 million times and run it in parallel, I can't just produce 1 million robots. Physical world is always harder.

Even if we get robots who can, say, build roads start to end, there is still a HUGE gap between that and it actually being used. There is a hard floor, too. Robots are made of physical things, physical things have scarcity, and there's no way around that to our knowledge. Even if you can build the robot for 1 cent, the material cost will still exist.

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rootusrootus
7 hours ago
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> Robots are expensive

People are not, though, and all the folks who are no longer necessary in knowledge work are available for physical work.

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stephen_cagle
5 hours ago
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Dark thoughts... Imagine a future where most human beings are just overseered by an LLM and we are just wearing AR work glasses. Barely aware of what (physical) work we are doing as we overlay our hands within the projections of our AR glasses. Every task is decomposed into a set of small physical steps, you don't even think about what you are trying to actually accomplish, just follow the steps one at a time. I wonder if an entire fast food restaurant could be run in this fashion? No managers, no shift supervisors, just a skeleton crew doing one step of a task at a time.
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tavavex
3 hours ago
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Why have fast food restaurants at all at that point? Just have everyone eat the same mass-produced, nutritionally-optimized substance, and use the AR vision to superimpose pretty pictures over that food. Varied meals are for the rich.
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bigiain
10 hours ago
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Hasn't the US already minimised the cost of all the construction work that are "the parts that don't require discernment" to minimum wage who-cares-if-they're-documented-or-not day workers?
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rootusrootus
7 hours ago
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Seems the answer is no, the average wage is about $25/hr depending on region.
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ramesh31
11 hours ago
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I'll say invest totally in domain knowledge now. The value of knowing how to invert a binary tree from memory has dropped to approximately zero. Web development as we knew it for the past 20 years is completely dead as an entry level trade. The power is shifting to people with useful knowledge and expertise that isn't about twiddling bits.
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mekoka
9 hours ago
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Are people still under the impression that testing candidates with coding challenges is in preparation of a job where real world problems are described like "invert the binary tree"?

There was never any value in simply the ability to invert a binary tree from memory. First, contrary to popular belief, this particular challenge is quite trivial, even easier imo than fizzbuzz. The value of testing candidates with easy problems is their usefulness in quickly filtering out potentially problematic coders, not necessarily to identify strong ones.

Second, another common take on coding challenges is that they're about memorization. Somewhat, but only to a point. Data structures and algorithms are a vocabulary. A big part of the challenge of using them "creatively" in real life is your ability to recognize that a particular subset of that vocabulary best matches a particular situation. In many novel contexts an LLM might be able to help you with implementation once the right algorithm has been identified, but only after you yourself have made that insightful connection.

Having said this I generally agree with the philosophy [0] that keeping things simple is enough 95+% of the time.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47423647

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travisdrake
10 hours ago
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I think this is true today, especially with complex domains, but I foresee a future where more and more walls fall. If you are in college now, go deep on a domain. If you are entering in 10 years, I have no idea.
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Ifkaluva
11 hours ago
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What do you mean by “domain knowledge”? And how is it a competitive advantage?
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crop_rotation
11 hours ago
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Domain knowledge as in non public aspects of the work you/ your workplace does. The AI tools are very good at whatever is public but very clueless about proprietary domains .Let's say you make CRUD apps about some confidential domain. Now the CRUD skills might be commodity but the confidential domain is even more important.
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magic_hamster
11 hours ago
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As long as there's internal documentation, which virtually every serious shop has, it can be processed and combined with AI. There are startups selling this product already. I've seen first hand some very narrowly focused domain knowledge becoming more accessible when you can ask the chatbot and the thing is right. It works.

Come to think of it, domain knowledge should be an LLMs strong suit as long as you can provide the right documentation, which is working pretty well already.

Right now the main issue I see with AI is that it doesn't do well with scaling. It's great for building demos and examples but you have to fix its code for real production work. But for how long?

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generic92034
10 hours ago
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In ERP software there are MLOCs without any technical documentation. And nobody would spend a dime to create one. So, the deep expert knowledge on how business processes are supposed to work (in full detail) and how they are implemented is mostly in the heads of a couple of people.
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mycall
10 hours ago
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AI is most excellent at reading and understanding large codebases and, with some guidance docs, can easily reproduce accurate technical documentation. Divide and conquer.
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generic92034
11 minutes ago
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Again, nobody would spend a dime to create the technical documentation, even if it could be done somewhat faster with AI support. Also, in my experience AI is not so great explaining the consequences to business processes when documenting code.
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yladiz
9 hours ago
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Accuracy/faithfulness to the code as written isn't necessarily what you care about though, it's an understanding of the underlying problem. Just translating code doesn't actually help you do that.
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jasondigitized
6 hours ago
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Documentation rarely reflects how anything is actually done, referred to by good business analysts as 'shadow functions'.
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closewith
3 hours ago
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LLMs are already good enough to read corporate email and document shadow functions and hierarchies.
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Capricorn2481
1 hour ago
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Corporate email documents even less.
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closewith
16 minutes ago
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No, current LLMs are already good enough to read the subtexts from documents, email, call transcripts where available. They're extremely good at identifying unwritten business practices, relationships, data flows, etc.
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skybrian
10 hours ago
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Internal domain knowledge can become pretty useless when you switch companies and have to start over, though.
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kokanee
11 hours ago
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But everyone at the company has that private domain knowledge. The only thing you're bringing to the table that anyone in any other role doesn't offer is the commoditized skill set.
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follie
11 hours ago
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Right, and you'll not keep everything out of materials like AI generated meeting notes for every repeat of every process so the company doesn't really need many experts in its existing operations.
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kurthr
11 hours ago
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Can't speak to the OP, but lots of technical work (and frankly many trades are also technical) doesn't lend itself to text based documentation and teaching. Software, translation, non/fiction writing (like marketing and sales) all do. I think LLMs will take a significant part of those businesses, because I don't believe there is a Devon's Paradox for code -Tractors- Agents.

At the same time medicine, hardware design, good industrial, and specific domain knowledge (problems you solve in assembly or control loops) that are fundamentally proprietary and aren't well documented will continue to have value even when LLMs make solving the problems around them easier. Those might have increased leverage, at least for this round of LLMs. Now, maybe they succeed in World Models, but that is not today.

Really, I don't know what "kids these days" are going to do. I couldn't have predicted the influencer boom 15 years ago, but I also think there are geopolitical risks that are probably bigger than that shift, and "synergized" with the push to AI Everything, it doesn't look like a good time to be a learning/working human.

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bossyTeacher
11 hours ago
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Pre-LLMs, algorithmic knowledge was used as a proxy for skill difference at interview stage. In the workplace, you could google the implementation details and common gotchas. This was valuable knowledge.

Post-LLMs, the value of this (as differentiator) has dropped to zero. Domain knowledge (also known as business knowledge) is the obvious area to skill up on. It simply means knowledge about the area your organisation is working in. Whether it is yogurt delivery logistics, clothing manufacturing supply chain systems, etc. That's the real differentiator now. Anyone can invert a binary try in 5 minutes using an LLM. But designing a software system knowing well the domain your organisation is in is invaluable.

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forgetfulness
11 hours ago
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Right, bridging the gap of knowledge by getting closer to that of the clerical workers of the company, because pure software knowledge is no longer as valuable. That will probably make your salary closer to theirs, and that'll be a pretty big adjustment.
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alephnerd
10 hours ago
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The fact you are getting downvoted to oblivion shows how fucked HN has become.

Ain't nobody gonna hire a code monkey - you are being hired based on whether or not you can reason and enable workflows via tech.

If you're only name to grace is you can write pretty Python but cannot architect at scale or care to actually understand the bigger picture of what is being built and why, you will get offshored to someone who is also using Claude Code.

If I'm working on a fullstack for a cloud security product like Wiz, I'd rather hire an average developer who deeply understands the cloud security industry versus a NodeJS doc wiz who has zero empathy or interest in learning about cloud security. There are too many of the latter and not enough of the former in the American scene now, and especially on HN.

If HNers cry about how cut-throat the American market has become, they haven't seen it in China, India, or the CEE.

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Imustaskforhelp
10 hours ago
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I am not quite sure with the controversy at archive.ph/(today) but If this may help anybody, I have used single-file to download from archive.ph and uploaded it to github

https://serjaimelannister.github.io/wsj-article/

and I have also uploaded the github link on archive.org for persistence/archival purposes.

https://web.archive.org/web/20260322213950/https://serjaimel...

I hope that this might help some people and I have another friendly suggestion to please donate to archive.org :-)

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bigiain
10 hours ago
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https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47474255

Cloudflare flags archive.today as "C&C/Botnet"; no longer resolves via 1.1.1.2

related:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46843805 "Archive.today is directing a DDoS attack against my blog"

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abcde666777
10 hours ago
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> People fear that programming is dead.

> People stop learning programming.

> Programmers become scarce.

> Programmers become valuable again.

Maybe it's wishful thinking but I'm not going to be surprised if it plays out like this. In some sense the reverse happened over the last couple of decades - everyone and their mother got into IT and the industry became saturated.

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onlyrealcuzzo
9 hours ago
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It's hard to say if there's anything new under the Sun...

There were always unqualified people coming out of college, but the amount of people in interviews that can literally do nothing these days seems higher than before.

There was always some cohort of people that somehow managed to graduate from college with a CS degree, and seemingly not learning anything, or at least not learn how to even write basic code (independently).

It seems like AI is not reducing that percentage - possibly increasing it.

Anecdata, take it with a grain of salt.

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fakedang
1 hour ago
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> It seems like AI is not reducing that percentage - possibly increasing it.

AI is definitely increasing it. I barely type out any code now, and simply sit back and review what Claude dumps out. Even if it's a minor UI change, I just request the LLM and it executes the change for me. Thankfully I don't write code for my day-job anymore and mostly just sit in my office and pontificate :). I know my code skills and inclination to write code have atrophied to an extent, thanks to AI. Currently what I'm able to do with AI far surpasses the capabilities of what I was able to do without relying on AI.

Now if my employees were relying on LLMs to do their coding for them, I would be very disappointed. And I think that that limited space in algorithmic and HFT trading is where exceptionally talented programmers will find room in, leaving the others to dry out and wither.

Perhaps the best example of frogs in a boiling pot are all these folks in frontier AI companies themselves who are building the blocks for the very things that are going to replace them, if not already. Maybe they'll make off like bandits before their work gets adversely affected, or maybe not.

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variadix
8 hours ago
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Maybe, another possibility is the frontier providers change their pricing terms to try to capture more of the value once a sufficient number of people’s skills have atrophied. For example: 20% of the revenue of all products built with $AI_SERVICE. For someone several years out of practice they may have no other option.
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khuey
7 hours ago
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I think there's a decent chance that the open weight models remain close enough to the frontier labs that they won't be able to do things like this.
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nemo44x
8 hours ago
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Essentially what happened after .com bust. For years CS departments had to sell themselves and convince people there was a future in computers.

Not that AI is the same as Websites all going broke. But no one can see the future and it’s unlikely that deep technical knowledge will be obsolete.

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ares623
7 hours ago
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Software became ubiquitous because a huge majority of the population found utility and enjoyment from what software had to offer. Very quickly that number in the population is dwindling. (Good) software can only thrive in an environment where other sectors are also thriving. Who needs 99.999% uptime when your family is starving and freezing.
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noelsusman
7 hours ago
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Assuming the AI maximalist digital god bros are wrong, there will always be some demand for programmers, the question is how much. It's not hard to see a future where programming goes the way of farming where the demand for small-scale farming still exists but at a tiny fraction of what it once was.
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killingtime74
8 hours ago
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I think this happened with airline pilots and they're experiencing a boom now
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