Fake Fans
83 points
5 hours ago
| 5 comments
| wordsfromeliza.com
| HN
adamtaylor_13
35 minutes ago
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Pieces like this all seem to be written with an unspoken assumption that anyone who wants to make a living wage from being an artist should be able to, as if it's some sort of right.

It would be nice if that were true.

AI has exacerbated this issue. Suddenly we're faced with the uncomfortable truth that much of human artwork is "mid" as the kids would say and people aren't willing to pay for songs, writing, and/or graphics the way they otherwise might.

Anyway, I'm very curious if anyone has a good argument for why anyone who wishes to be an artist is owed a living wage for merely their desire to be recognized as economically valuable.

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fwipsy
4 hours ago
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Recently rereading William Gibson's "Pattern Recognition" and I'm struck by his belief that certain art or memes are objectively good and destined for virality. I think both Gibson and this author are wrong. No content is intrinsically destined for success. There are countless amazing artists, available to anyone. Any sort of quality, insight, talent, novelty are table stakes. If someone is big, they're either extremely lucky, they got in on the ground floor, or there's marketing money behind them.
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SL61
3 hours ago
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It doesn't surprise me at all that this is going on. There are lots of social media fan pages that are run by real people who post real content 99% of the time but are willing to post promo material for a fee. Usually that fee is pretty high, easily $100-500 depending on the account's follower count, with different price points for how long it stays up (pay more for a permanent post, pay less and it gets deleted after X number of hours). It's really effective because those accounts already have a well-established presence and function as tastemakers.
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cobbzilla
4 hours ago
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Modern payola. Fascinating but not entirely unpredictable. I’m excited by the focus on hyper-local, authenticity is the scarce resource. Great artists are usually not the best marketers, but nothing beats “I am here, this is real”. No amount of algorithmic magic can create that experience.
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jfengel
3 hours ago
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I have found that the great artists you've heard of tend to also be great marketers, or at the very least found great marketers.

I know quite a few extremely talented artists who could never crack the marketing, and so nobody else has ever heard of them. Even local fame requires a fair bit of hustle. Talent alone doesn't get you there.

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mbb70
43 minutes ago
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Reminds me of "a terrible project with a great slide deck might end up decent. A great project with a terrible slide deck won't even exist."

In the real world there is no If You Build It They Will Come, you've got to get the word out

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cobbzilla
1 hour ago
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Could this be confirmation bias?

Isn’t this the point of the unique & real discovery process that actual connoisseurs of an art form participate in? We find you (great artist), because you are brilliant at your art but terrible at marketing.

Then you might become popular because 1) we (the finders, the influencers) talk about you (I mean personally here, friend to friend, in person, not social media) and 2) if your art has broad appeal, it just needed the marketing. word of mouth marketing is the most authentic kind so of course it’s being faked!

There are many artists that I love that “no one has ever heard of” and that’s fine! At some point, some of them will make something with broad appeal and it’ll catch on.

There’s money at stake so of course people are trying to juice the process, but that’s been going on for a very long time, hence my original reference to payola (pay to play on radio) which started in the 1930s!

None of this payola bullshit takes anything away from the true talent producing amazing art today! It just means, as it always has, that if you want the good stuff you have to do your own research. Most are too lazy and that’s fine! They have other interests. But the art form itself does not suffer because there exist grifters who distort mass perception. Connoisseurs are less interested in mass perception.

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cobbzilla
1 hour ago
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As a counterpoint to my own argument above — the Ramones made more money selling T-shirts; every artist must market somehow; so yeah it’s definitely more complicated, I am presenting an oversimplified view.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47473673

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girvo
4 hours ago
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> Great artists are usually not the best marketers, but nothing beats “I am here, this is real”.

Agreed 100%, which is why my local city's (Brisbane) post-rock scene of the 2000s-2010s was so important to me

But it's also why despite being phenomenal musicians, they all worked normal jobs (even those related bands who were indie-rock enough to be played on Triple J even though they weren't) and they've all stopped playing because touring loses money.

I will always have the music and the years of amazing experiences and the photos of the shows I took, but hyper-local means niche and niche means unsustainable, I think.

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cobbzilla
1 hour ago
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Yeah art is art, it’s never paid well generally. You do it because you love it, and your audience loves it. And that is awesome.

And then commerce is commerce, and you make money and more money means you did something good.

And then you put the two together and it’s the same shit we’ve seen for thousands of years. tbh no surprises! This is all as expected.

There’s still phenomenal live music in every city I’ve ever visited, to the present day. Just go out and find it, it’s not hard!

Support live local music

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doctorpangloss
1 hour ago
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Not at all. Saying something like that is the loudest signal for how out of touch you are with how audiences are made.

From the article:

> "...it’s like the first thing that they see or that first comment that they see is their opinion even when they haven’t heard the whole album.”

What is this trying to say? For every 1 person who thinks about truth in some independent way, I don't care if it's spiritual or because they do scientific tests for what the best music is or all of this other stuff; there are 19 people who are, "LIKES = TRUTH".

Are you getting it? That has nothing to do with payola or authenticity or scarcity or whatever. You have no idea anyway, you've never had to make a creative product. Likes = truth. Authenticity is the seeming unlikelihood that social media content authors are bought and sold. It's the OPPOSITE of what you think. It is the OPPOSITE of payola. And look, they're right. The vast majority of opinions on TikTok are not paid for. This is the OPPOSITE of radio.

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cobbzilla
36 minutes ago
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> Likes = truth

sounds like pop culture = art

which is obviously not true

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jwpapi
4 hours ago
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I’ve noticed a lot of fake Tik Tok comments recently and was wondering already..
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