Bring Back Idiomatic Design
82 points
3 hours ago
| 19 comments
| essays.johnloeber.com
| HN
JojoFatsani
37 minutes ago
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Most software is not designed by intelligent and thoughtful people anymore. It is designed by hastily promoted middle manager PM/Product type people who, as has been mentioned elsewhere, simply were not around when thoughtful human interface design was borderline mandatory for efficiency’s sake.

There is incompetence and there is also malevolence in the encouragement of dark patterns by the revenue side of the business.

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iamcalledrob
3 minutes ago
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As the author identifies, the idioms come from the use of system frameworks that steer you towards idiomatic implementations.

The system UI frameworks are tremendously detailed and handle so many corner cases you'd never think of. They allow you to graduate into being a power user over time.

Windows has Win32, and it was easier to use its controls than rolling your own custom ones. (Shame they left the UI side of win32 to rot)

macOS has AppKit, which enforces a ton. You can't change the height of a native button, for example.

iOS has UIKit, similar deal.

The web has nothing. You gotta roll your own, and it'll be half-baked at best. And since building for modern desktop platforms is horrible, the framework-less web is being used there too.

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lxe
3 minutes ago
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Yall remember https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mystery_meat_navigation? Back in 2004-ish era, there was an explosion of very creative interaction methods due to flash and browser performance improvements, and general hardware improvements which led to "mystery meat navigation" and the community's pushback.

Since then, the "idiomatic design" seems to have been completely lost.

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pkphilip
1 hour ago
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UX has really gone downhill. This is particularly true of banking websites.

Also, the trend of hiding scrollbars, huge wasted spaces, making buttons look really flat, confusing icons, confusing ways of using drop downs rather than using the select/option html controls etc have all made the whole experience far inferior to where desktop UI was even decades ago

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teeray
1 hour ago
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> There are hundreds of ways that different websites ask you to pick dates

Ugh, date pickers. So many of these violently throw up when I try to do the obvious thing: type in the damn date. Instead they force me to click through their inane menu, as if the designer wanted to force me into a showcase of their work. Let your power users type. Just call your user’s attention back to the field if they accidentally typed 03/142/026.

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nkrisc
50 minutes ago
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Is 03/04/2026 March 4th or the 3rd of April?

If you have an international audience that’s going to mess someone up.

Better yet require YYYY-MM-DD.

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cush
7 minutes ago
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This has a solved problem for a long time
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anamexis
19 minutes ago
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Or:

- Use localization context to show the right order for the user

- Display context to the user that makes obvious what the order is

- Show the month name during/immediately after input so the user can verify

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andai
45 minutes ago
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I've seen some that had a drop-down for the month name. But since it was native, I could type the month name and my browser selected the right one.
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readitalready
5 minutes ago
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This is a really huge and a fundamental flaw in AI-driven design. AI-driven design is completely inconsistent. If you re-ran an AI generated layout, even with the same prompt, the output for a user interface will look completely different between two runs.

LLM-driven design is completely inconsistent.

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ceejayoz
4 minutes ago
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You can steer it towards reusable components, though.

Find a run you like, and build off that.

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alienbaby
12 minutes ago
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designers are creatives and will always believe the visual elements of a design need to be updated, refreshed, modernized etc.. then we get flavour of the month nand new trends in visual language and ui design that things must be updated to.

As soon as UI design became a creative visual thing rather than a functional thing , everything started to go crazy in UI land..

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foobarbecue
2 hours ago
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Lately I've occasionally been running into round check boxes that look like radio buttons. Why????
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iamcalledrob
8 minutes ago
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iOS decided square checkboxes were ugly, and design patterns are flowing from mobile->desktop these days.
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LunicLynx
1 hour ago
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UX want to put their own spin on things. I’ve noticed this repeatedly.

UX has gotten from something with a cause to being the cause for something

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aspensmonster
5 minutes ago
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andai
45 minutes ago
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I think the answer is they just don't know.
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finghin
1 hour ago
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> Prefer words to icons. Use only icons that are universally understood.

Underrated. Except for dyslexic people, and the most obvious icon forms, I am pretty sure most people are just better and faster at recognising single words at a glance than icons.

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tgv
6 minutes ago
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I am pretty sure icons are easier and faster to recognize, except when you make them (too) small. In particular, they probably are easier in the long run, as long as they don't change position. But in a context where things change or you need a lot of buttons, words probably win.
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PhilipRoman
1 hour ago
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...except for HN "unvote"/"undown" feedback which is especially unfortunate due to the shared prefix. Every time I upvote something I squint at the unvote/undown to make sure I didn't misclick.
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kennywinker
15 minutes ago
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> You don’t want to have to remember to use CTRL + Shift + C in certain circumstances or right-click → copy in others, that’d be annoying.

laughs in linux wouldn’t that be nice.

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chapz
16 minutes ago
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This kinda hurt. The world is in a rush to be the ASAP, so nobodys interest is to do design good, it needs to be fast. And now we have this sh*tshow.
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hungryhobbit
12 minutes ago
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"Avoid JavaScript reimplementations of HTML basics, e.g. React Button components instead of styled <button> elements."

Tell me you know nothing about web development without saying you know nothing about web dev ...

1. React is an irrelevant implementation detail. You can have a plain HTML button in a button component, or you can have an image or whatever else. React has nothing to do with the design choices.

2. React is also how you get consistent design across a major web app. Can you imagine if every button on every site was the same Windows button gray color, regardless of the site's color? It'd be awful! React components (with CSS classes) are a way for a site like Amazon to make all their buttons orange (although I don't actually know if Amazon uses React specifically). But again, whether they look and act like standard buttons comes down to Amazon's design choices ... not whether their tech stack includes React or not.

Look idiomatic design is incredibly important to web design. One of the most popular web design/usability books, Don't Make Me Think, is all about idiomatic design!

But ultimately it's a design choice, which has very little, if anything at all, to do with which development tools you use.

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andyfilms1
38 minutes ago
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And while we're at it, stop with the popups and notifications.

I don't care about the new features in a browser update. Ideally, nothing at all has changed.

I don't want a "tour" of the software I just installed. I, presumably, installed it to do something, and I just want to do that thing.

I don't want to have to select a preference for how a specific action is performed in your software. If it's not what I expected, I will learn it.

And for the love of GOD, nobody wants to subscribe to your newsletter.

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xnx
1 hour ago
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My hope is that since tools like Google Stitch have made fancy looking design free that it will become obvious how functionally worthless fancy looking design always was. It used to signal that a site paid a lot of money and was therefore legitimate. Now it signals nothing.
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pawsocks
52 minutes ago
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There are no quick signals for anything like that anymore. It's sad and exhausting, everything feels like lies.
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jonahx
51 minutes ago
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This is a good point, but there's usually a long tail on transitions like this.
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satvikpendem
1 hour ago
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Not sure how you can put the genie back in the bottle, every app wants to have its own design so how can you enforce them to all obey the same design principles? You simply can't.
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DoneWithAllThat
10 minutes ago
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Idiomatic design will never come back. The reason being companies believe (correctly) that they design language is part of their brand. The uniqueness is, basically, the point.
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mcculley
1 hour ago
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The web needs a HIG.

All of these people who keep saying that webapps can replace desktop applications were simply never desktop power users. They don’t know what they don’t know.

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andai
42 minutes ago
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Yeah it would be nice if the web accessibility guidelines also focused on actually using the thing normally. For example: offsetting the scrollbar from the right edge of the screen by 1px should be punishable by death.
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dxdm
55 minutes ago
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I think HIG means "Human Interface Guidelines" here. Seems to be an Apple thing.

I wish more people would avoid or at least introduce abbreviations that may be unfamiliar to the audience.

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andai
41 minutes ago
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teddyh
2 minutes ago
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ufocia
1 hour ago
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UIs are inconsistent even in the same app. Nevermind plugins or suites. It would be great if menus were customizable so you could plug in your own template.
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jfengel
45 minutes ago
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I prefer to avoid customizing apps. I want to be able to sit down at a fresh install (or someone else's) and not spend time learning their preferences.

When someone asks me for a checkbox so they can have my app work their way instead and everyone else can do theirs, the hair stands up on the back of my neck. The check boxes are hard to discover unless you put them front and center, in which case they remain there forever serving no purpose.

I would rather redesign the entire interface, either to find the right answer that works for everyone, or to learn what makes one class of users different from another. The check box is a mode, and nodes are to be avoided if I possibly can.

I realize that this puts me at odds with a whole class of users who want to make their box do their thing. It's your box and you should do what you want. And I really love style sheets for that. Rather than cobbling together my own set of possible preferences you should have something Turing complete. Go nuts with it.

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carlosjobim
18 minutes ago
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I think most non-Linux users haven't made a fresh install in 5-10 years. Preferences files and apps get transferred when you buy a new computer or update your os.
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amakhov
1 hour ago
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... and please stop doing paralax...
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dxdm
53 minutes ago
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Such a nice way to give more depth to your content. </s>
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