PHP 8.6 Closure Optimizations
70 points
2 days ago
| 5 comments
| wiki.php.net
| HN
philo23
26 minutes ago
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Little bit of extra detail about static closures in PHP for anyone interested: https://www.php.net/manual/en/functions.anonymous.php#functi...
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kevincox
5 hours ago
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It is an interesting comparison that JavaScript always ensures that different evaluations of a closure expression results in unique instances. So in general the closures will require allocations for each (unless the allocation is otherwise prevented such as via escape analysis). Of course much of the underlying data may be shared, but the identity itself will be unique.

I don't know how strict JavaScript garbage collection rules are. This was non-observable for the longest time but FinalizationRegistry now exists which makes cleanup observable. It sounds like basically no guarantees are provided when an object will be cleaned up, so presumably an implementation would be allowed to make optimizations such are proposed where for PHP.

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eurleif
2 hours ago
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The part that would violate guarantees in JavaScript is not function objects being kept alive longer, but function objects which should be distinct not being so.

    function foo() {
        return function() { };
    }
    console.log(foo() === foo()); // This must log `false` in a compliant implementation
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moebrowne
2 days ago
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> Non-static closures are turned into static ones if they are guaranteed not to make use of $this.

> Stateless closures, i.e. those that are static, don't capture any variables and don't declare any static variables, are cached between uses.

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typia
2 hours ago
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Whenever looking at PHP contents, as a lover who has used since 1998, cannot find the reason why not to use JS instead.
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Gormo
1 hour ago
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Conversely, whenever I see people talking about server-side JS, I can't find any reason why I wouldn't use PHP instead.

PHP has a vastly simpler toolchain (making it much more effective for rapid iteration), much more consistent and well-thought-out syntax, a more extensive standard library, type safety without having to transpile code from another language (so no build processes that rival C++ in complexity just to still have interpreted code at the end), native and full-featured object orientation, generally better runtime performance, and a package ecosystem with Composer that isn't overrun with inane vanity projects and supply-chain vulnerabilities.

The only major downside to PHP is that it's not great at multithreading, but if you're building microservices where parallelization is handled by an external orchestrator, then you can design around that pretty effectively.

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Tadpole9181
25 minutes ago
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As someone who prefers PHP in general and find the TC39 committee has kneecapped the JS language in the past few years...

> PHP has a vastly simpler toolchain

Firmly disagree.

You can install Node and have a basic server running in a few seconds.

PHP requires installing and setting up a server tied into FPM and then reconfiguring a slurry of bad defaults. If you don't avoid the footgun of "traditional" deployments, you get to deal with mixed versions of source. If you don't avoid the footgun of "native" sessions, you get to deal with INCOMPLETE_CLASS errors galore.

And if you want a dynamic frontend, you're still going to want to bust out JS.

> I can't find any reason why I wouldn't use PHP instead

Using a single language for both frontend and backend with (largely) the same availability of tooling and the ability to share code (i.e. type definitions).

> generally better runtime performance

I find this hard to believe? Intuitively, I would assume that the Node / Bun engines are significantly faster than PHP - which doesn't even come with it's JIT enabled by default on the (perfectly valid) note that backends are almost always constrained by DB times.

> a package ecosystem with Composer that isn't overrun with inane vanity projects and supply-chain vulnerabilities.

Functionally, Composer is worse than any of the NPM package managers IMO. PHP's global, shared namespaces preventing monkey patching and nested dependencies is a huge burden when you need to use Lib A and Lib B, but both have conflicting dependencies on Lib C.

But the only reason it doesn't suffer (as many) supply chain issues is two-fold:

1. Packagist's source of truth is the repo and tags. It's much easier to notice a Github account being compromised, which is already harder because it's always had better account security expectations, than NPM. But this comes at costs - such as being unable to rename a package in-place, because Composer gets really confused when it clones a trunk that has a different name than what you asked for. And it's not intrinsically more secure, since tags are not immutable and people can host on less secure VCS platforms.

2. But more than that... it's just less used? The PHP ecosystem is noticeably smaller and has way less happening.

So its very much trade-offs.

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runjake
19 minutes ago
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> You can install Node and have a basic server running in a few seconds. PHP requires installing and setting up a server tied into FPM...

Without mentioning more, the PHP equivalent to your Node example is `php -S`.

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klaussilveira
48 minutes ago
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I have a few:

- Batteries included, everything you need out of the box. No need to npm install left-pad

- Optional, per-file strict types, without the need to transpile from another language

- No need to build anything, lightning fast scripting language

- Is its own HTML templating language (or XML), no need for JSX

- No supply-chain fiascos, stable and mature ecosystem

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pluc
2 hours ago
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Because PHP was designed for this and JS evolved for it. There are still JS quirks that should be avoided.
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hyperionultra
5 hours ago
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~3% performance gains. I didn’t understood part about $this.
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rererereferred
5 hours ago
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If the closure doesn't use $this (an instance of the current class) then it doesn't need to store a reference to it, which also skips the bookkeeping from the garbage collector.
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