Ask HN: What Makes AI a Bubble?
8 points
2 hours ago
| 5 comments
| HN
A lot of people seem to take it as a given that the AI bubble will "pop", leading to a mass devaluation of AI companies from their current peaks.

What I'm confused about though is what makes current AI evaluations a bubble.

Bubbles usually exists when future speculation outpaces productivity: eventually some realization leads the market to no longer believe in that future speculation, causing devaluation which triggers a mass sell-off.

However, AI companies currently have very high revenues and are growing extremely fast. Their valuation is backed by actual commerce. I can't imagine that there is any room for a bubble, as it is very clear where the market is at, and why demand for AI is so high.

Now, certain specific companies I can imagine losing a lot of valuation, but only contingent on the fact that they serve a middle-man role in the market that improvements in the underlying AI models will solve, which would likely only mean more revenue for the frontier labs, and thus less reason for a bubble.

8bitsrule
11 minutes ago
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Since it's not actual A.I., I'm reminded of nuclear fusion, which has long been only 25 years away. It's not an actual invention yet.

Yet, thanks to our times, at least one major company appears to be thought-bubbling. It appears to hope (if it's not just window-dressing) that fusion will suddenly appear in the next 2 years ... to avoid driving regional electric rates sky high.

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akerl_
2 hours ago
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> Their valuation is backed by actual commerce.

Is it?

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atleastoptimal
2 hours ago
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I think their annualized revenue is 25 billion with 3.4x yearly growth, with 1 billion weekly active users
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Rury
50 minutes ago
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Now do costs.

You're also ignoring the fact that these companies have been shifting things around to make their books look better than they actually are. Here's a good example explaining how META has been keeping debt and lease obligations off its books to fuel growth (and who's at risk if META doesn't pay up):

https://www.reddit.com/r/economy/comments/1soent7/if_the_ai_...

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benoau
1 hour ago
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Hasn't it cost them $100s of billions to earn that money? Don't they need $100s of billions more to keep the ball rolling?
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akerl_
2 hours ago
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You were talking about actual commerce, though.

Is that revenue actually tied to something in the market, or is it just all of these companies and investors blowing air into the bubble?

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garrisonj
1 hour ago
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It’s important to keep in mind that railroads, airplanes, and the internet also caused bubbles.

Just because of an invention is useful and world changing doesn’t mean it won’t cause a bubble.

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TheAlchemist
21 minutes ago
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Exactly that. There was a very nice talk by Warren Buffett explaining that to business leaders at the height of the dot-com bubble - if I remember correctly it's full text is the introduction to his biography 'The Snowball: Warren Buffett and the Business of Life'.

Airlines are a great example - they are everywhere, nobody can imagine life without them, and yet they are yet to make any money ! Maybe they will figure it out before oil runs out on planet Earth.

As for Buffett speach - ther is a specific quote about airlines in it: "If a capitalist had been present at Kitty Hawk back in the early 1900s he should’ve shot Orville Wright"

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atleastoptimal
8 minutes ago
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They make no money because competition has essentially turned them into commodities. There is no differentiation thus no producer or consumer surplus.
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somewhereoutth
1 hour ago
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Conversely, just because an invention causes a bubble doesn't mean it is useful and world changing.
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ashwinsundar
22 minutes ago
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What are some examples of this?
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hackable_sand
10 minutes ago
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LLMs, for instance
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avaer
1 hour ago
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It is widely agreed users are not paying enough to cover the costs of inference. This is what "subscription" plans are. So, many users are losing the companies money.

This is not discussed publicly and is covered up for by raises, because there is growth and the hope that at some point the economics could work out. Which remains to be seen.

It's a variant on a Ponzi scheme. Investor hope is that at some point someone invents a way to stop losing money.

If at any point investors start to lose faith that this is going to be the case, the bubble pops.

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atleastoptimal
10 minutes ago
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What percentage of Anthropic’s and OpenAI’s revenue is subscriptions?
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brazukadev
3 minutes ago
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what makes AI a bubble is the return over investment. By Scam Altman's spreadsheet, openai should be spending some $100B/year with computing from partners that are building the datacenters for that. They should also be buying 40% of all available RAM. Those things are not happening.
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