SpaceX rocket set for unintentional moon landing – well, a piece of it anyway
56 points
15 hours ago
| 7 comments
| theregister.com
| HN
the_king
3 hours ago
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I cannot wait for Starship to become a real thing, but you have to admit it's way behind schedule. The engines are awesome now.
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eagerpace
3 hours ago
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It's so much further advanced than anything anyone else is working on, does it really need to be on schedule? I feel like "on schedule" only pertains to non-research-intensive projects.
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estearum
3 hours ago
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More bigger != more advanced != more economical != more sensical

And anyway yes there are programs that are dependent on Starship working on a schedule. If it doesn't work on schedule, those programs will advance without it and the Starship program will eventually fail.

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ehsankia
2 hours ago
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SpaceX has had 165 launches in 2025 (although admittedly 75% of those were for Starlink...) Obviously bigger isn't more economical or sensical, and most cases are served just fine with the Falcons, but there are cases we need the big boy for, and it's good that someone is working on it and has made so much progress.

Obviously a semblance of a schedule is good to have, but realistically, that's not really how research works. Look at James Webb telescope, it was originally scheduled for 2007, and ended up launching 14 years later. It's still an amazing piece of engineer/science, and it's amazing that it's up there now, even if it was very late to it. It's much better to be late and successful than early and failing.

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estearum
2 hours ago
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> but there are cases we need the big boy for, and it's good that someone is working on it and has made so much progress.

I am taking issue with this claim. Are there cases where the cost/benefit actually come out favorably for Starship as it is actually turning out? Are they cases anyone should actually care about beyond sci-fi fantasies (i.e. not "colonize Mars")?

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eagerpace
3 hours ago
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There are so many individual features in this program that have never been done or even attempted before. That's "Advanced" in my book. Yes, they attached it to an overly ambitious program that is rife with delays (and hubris) but the program started on its own, is the best path to making the 2028 landing happen (it won't), and on its own is incredible.
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estearum
3 hours ago
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Starship is at this point probably not even the best path to making a 2028 landing happen.

How many of those things that have never been done/attempted before sit downstream of poor strategic decisions?

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eagerpace
2 hours ago
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You have to separate the two. There are no good options to 2028. It's just politics.
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SecretDreams
2 hours ago
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On schedule pertains to anything where extraordinary schedule claims are unnecessarily made. Nobody would have to think about a schedule in this context if somebody did not regularly make bold schedule claims.
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refulgentis
2 hours ago
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It does need to work at some point and I have a feeling it won't. Travelled from doubter => hyped => doubter. Something is very wrong.
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7e
3 hours ago
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If my rocket doesn’t need to deliver any results on any timeline, it can be infinitely advanced. Convenient, right?
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throwaway27448
2 hours ago
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Is it? It seems mostly similar to what we had fifty years ago.
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consumer451
1 hour ago
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The issue is cadence. SpaceX is the king of cadence with Falcon 9, but if it takes >10 Starship Tanker launches to get all that excess mass of Starship HLS to the moon... prior to boil-off of the Starship HLS... holy crap, this is really hand wavy.

Even SpaceX will have a really hard time launching ~10 Tankers in the time required. What are the lower and upper bounds of that time required? Nobody knows. But, if it's less than many weeks, it's gonna be tough. That's ~weeks of HLS on orbit, getting refueled, with boil-off occurring.

SpaceX has many things correct, except for the vehicle size and design, as far as HLS goes.

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kevin_thibedeau
55 minutes ago
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That's why BO will ultimately be landing before SpaceX gets the chance and likely after the Chinese.
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consumer451
42 minutes ago
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I don't know about the CCP program at all. However, Blue's HLS plan for winning the USA race to the moon is far simpler than Spacex's plan. Even at Blue's relative glacial pace, that is actually possible. Starship is designed for atmospheric entry to Mars. Ain't no atmosphere on the moon. Wrong design for the moon.

I am a huge space nerd, therefore I have a lot of respect for SpaceX, and I have been hating on Blue for years. As weird as it is, Blue might actually beat SpaceX to the moon. Just the real chance of that is crazy, and if you look at the logistics, there's a real chance.

In the long term, aside from HLS, Stoke Aerospace has the coolest design. Late mover advantage.

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kevin_thibedeau
26 minutes ago
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Landing Flash Gordon style with exposed ascent engines on an unprepared dirt and rock surface is not a recipe for success regardless of the gravity involved. Until they come up with some Marston matting style deployable landing surface, their system will never work. Furthermore, Apollo 15 was tilted 10° with a relatively squat design to the LEM. A skinny tower would not have survived that.
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gregjor
56 minutes ago
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The warp drives in Star Trek seem awesome too, we're just behind schedule.

Starship excels at funneling tax money into Musk's various enterprises. Whether it actually reaches orbit, much less the moon or Mars, merely incidental, the sexy marketing photos for an imaginary island resort.

By the time Starship does actually achieve orbit it will likely get damaged by all of the debris SpaceX has parked around the planet.

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wolvoleo
1 minute ago
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> The warp drives in Star Trek seem awesome too, we're just behind schedule.

They're not scheduled until 2063 :)

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7e
3 hours ago
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The engines are so awesome that test flights are loaded with 10% of the promised capacity of the rocket. Someone is blowing smoke up your ass.
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SecretDreams
2 hours ago
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> but you have to admit it's way behind schedule

Shouldn't even be phrased like this. We can cheer for progress without simping so badly that we can't acknowledge failures and missteps.

Space is hard and over promising and under delivering are real possibilities that a hype-person cannot run from. Just moderate the hype and let the engineers cook - is that so hard??

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LeoPanthera
5 hours ago
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"List of artificial objects on the Moon"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_artificial_objects_on_...

It's a lot more than you might think, and I couldn't find a comprehensive list of the non-spacecraft objects, some of which are hinted at in the first paragraph.

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Polizeiposaune
5 hours ago
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The later Apollo missions (13-17) deliberately crashed their 3rd stages into the moon, in part to provide a signal for the seismometer packages left at each of the landing sites. They hit the moon a little faster than the Falcon 9 2nd stage will hit (2.6km/s vs 2.43km/s for the new one).

All of those impact sites have been located but the last one wasn't pinpointed until 2016: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/moon-mystery-solved-apollo-rock...

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anticensor
6 hours ago
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Let's make it intentional and controlled then.
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cucumber3732842
2 hours ago
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They should paint a cowboy onto all the ones they aren't trying to re-use. Would fit with the Texas motif of the operation.

https://youtu.be/snTaSJk0n_Y?t=48

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flockonus
4 hours ago
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Curious to see if to what intensity the Moon will "ring like a bell" at this one.

ref: https://books.google.ie/books?id=6QAAAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA56&lpg=PA...

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spwa4
5 hours ago
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What I think is very ironic is that Blue Origin actually beat SpaceX to Mars, after a decade of SpaceX "make life multiplanetary". A few months after Blue Origin did that SpaceX announced now they'll just go to the Moon, no more Mars.

https://www.nasa.gov/news-release/nasa-blue-origin-launch-tw...

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dmix
5 hours ago
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That article says that Rocket Lab is building the spacecraft designed by NASA. Blue Origin is just launching it.

Falcon Heavy launched a spacecraft that used a Mars gravity assist in 2023 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psyche_(spacecraft) same with the Europa Clipper https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europa_Clipper going to Jupiter

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dylan604
4 hours ago
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They also launched the roadster that has an orbital radius out to the distance of Mars
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GMoromisato
4 hours ago
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That's not irony, that's shallow thinking. If you want to "make life multiplanetary" you would do it by building a very large, reusable, refillable rocket that can land 100 tons on Mars.

Which is exactly what SpaceX is doing.

[p.s.: The drive to land on the moon makes sense in the context of "how can we fund colonizing Mars?" Starlink funded the initial development of Starship. Musk believes (rightly or wrongly) that data centers in orbit and on the moon can fund the next set of projects.]

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michaelmrose
1 minute ago
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Data Centers in orbit could be the single dumbest idea Musk has ever expressed. They would be in every respect worse than on land and there is just no solution for heat dissapation.

As stupid as the basic idea is the scope he's described is beyond any reasonable endeavor it's nor clear our society could achieve it if it was the singular goal of our species and what for? There is simply no use nor demand for it and it's by no means a durable investment we should have to continue the effort forever to sustain it.

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danaw
2 hours ago
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also a great way to raise money on abstract and impossible promises, musks specialty
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trueno
6 hours ago
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inb4 wreckage on the moon that stays there forever
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drivebyhooting
5 hours ago
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Several times the speed of sound? That is meaningless when there is no media for the sound waves. I think a better unit might be furlongs per fortnight.
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ambicapter
4 hours ago
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From TFA:

> 2.43 kilometers a second, or 1.51 miles a second, or 5,400 miles an hour, or 8,700 kilometers an hour.

> There is, of course, no air and no sound on the Moon, so a "Mach number" doesn't really make sense. But if there were air, the speed would be about Mach 7, seven times the speed of sound.

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roelschroeven
4 hours ago
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"If there were air". Air at which temperature though? Th sound of speed, and hence what Mach numbers mean, depends on the temperature of the air. The temperature air would have at the moon's surface? By day or by night? Or the air at Earth's surface? Or at some other altitude?
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SecretDreams
1 hour ago
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How many Machs is the earth moving?
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hgoel
4 hours ago
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"several times the speed of sound" is obviously just meant to mean really fast to earthlings in relation to their speed of sound.
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jghn
4 hours ago
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What about giraffe lengths per second?
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sandworm101
4 hours ago
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Well, there is a speed of sound on the moon. Sound does travel through the regolith. If you were standing on the moon you would indeed "hear" this impact as the sound moved up through your feet. It would sound/feel like standing beside a subwoofer.
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throwaway27448
2 hours ago
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I wouldn't call that sound but you can call whatever you want whatever you want, I suppose
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matttttttttttt
1 hour ago
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Transverse pressure waves?

I still call it sound when I hear things under water. Gas isn't special.

When someone knocks on your door, you still say you heard the sound, even though the pressure wave was transmitted through the solid door material (before then being transmised to the gas in the room). Likewise, we still file a noise complaint when the neighbor is throwing a raging party, even though we are feeling the bass as much as we are hearing it.

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