sudo spctl —-master-disable
Of course, you as the developer can’t make this choice for your users… but isn’t that as it should be? The user decides what code is allowed to run on their machines. And the default setting is restrictive because anyone who knows what they’re doing can easily change it.
P.S. Meanwhile, on iOS there’s no way to install unsigned software at all, and on Android (starting soon) the process takes 24 hours instead of ten seconds. That is actually ridiculous because it’s taking away user choice.
P.P.S. To be clear, modern macOS has plenty of other restrictions which can’t really be turned off and which I find super annoying. Gatekeeper just isn’t one of them.
Edit: I’ve just learned that as of Sequoia, you have to also tick a box in Settings after running the Terminal command. So maybe it takes 30 seconds instead of ten seconds. That’s mildly more annoying, but still doesn’t really seem like a big deal to me.
Give me the ability to choose what I trust. “You can either trust Apple and nobody else, even yourself, or you can trust literally everybody” is obviously not a good faith implementation of this. Apple excels at steering the narrative with false conflation and false dichotomy, I’d also remind you of the came-and-went secure boot debate, which Apple successfully steered into Apple owns the encryption keys vs no encryption, and people just kind of forgot to ask, wait, why can’t I have the keys to my device?
The same with SIP (system integrity protection). You can turn it off but then you have to turn it all off.
There's no way to keep secure boot but bless your own changes and sign them in some way, that you have approved. You know, as the owner and admin of your own computer. It's either leave it to Apple or be completely on your own. And to make the choice even more uncomfortable they also disable some features like running iOS apps.
It’s not really even that different than a PC motherboard that gives you “Windows UEFI” and “enroll my own keys” as options.
https://asahilinux.org/docs/platform/security/
As far as code signing, again, what do you want Apple to do here? They already gave you a master switch to turn it off. You are free to turn it off then implement your own third party code signing solution if you’d rather choose who you trust. It’s not Apple’s fault if nobody else decided to make their own trust repositories and the only alternative on the market is to have no safeguard at all.
And let’s not forget who Apple markets their computers to. These features aren’t for you and me, they’re for the non-technical customers who will absolutely get pwned by unsigned code. Go to the MacBook Neo marketing page and try to find a single image of someone writing code or even being gainfully employed.
You can turn off all protection, as you point out. So who Apple markets Neo's to isn't a factor.
> Apple’s fault if nobody else decided to make their own trust repositories and the only alternative on the market is to have no safeguard at all.
Does Apple provide a means for enabling third party trust systems, without disabling Apple's protections in general? If not, that is a serious problem of Apple's choosing. Nobody (to a first order approximation) want's to dispense with Apple's protection, or re-implement it, but to be able to carve out exceptions for specific classes of software.
I want to be able to right-click on an app and choose "Open" to run the program with an authentication dialog. You used to be able to do this, but Apple removed it in favor of an incredibly annoying process of having to go into System Settings every time.
The added friction feels more like a way to force developers to pay Apple an annual fee for distributing rather than for my safety. Not saying it doesn't help with safety, just that it's more weighed to the former.
I am the king of knowing immediately when I have fucked up.
“Undo” has made us far too comfortable with mistakes.
People reflexively hit yes to these things.
With Gatekeeper turned off, you’ll still get a warning on first launch which you can easily click through. (Unless Apple changed something in the last few versions—let me know if that’s the case—but it would be out of character for them to remove a warning...)
The “security feature” you don’t want to disable is precisely the thing you are complaining about, so I don’t understand why you’d keep it around.
> The added friction feels more like a way to force developers to pay Apple an annual fee for distributing rather than for my safety.
I don’t imagine Apple makes a substantial amount of money from $99/year developer subscriptions. The App Store is another story of course.
You actually do get some value, you can file two DTS tickets [1] a year which are (supposedly) looked at by a real apple engineer. Assuming they haven't outsourced it, that feels worth about $100 considering how badly documented their APIs are.
It has a chilling effect on releasing free apps.
It's going to be an interesting time soon, when even your dog will have a vibecoded app he'll want you to use.
“Press command space, no no hold down the command key - gosh it’s in the bottom left - okay, now type “privacy”, now scroll, no you scrolled too far …”
The other day my mom got a text saying she had a $399 charge on Apple, and to call the number if it wasn't her. So she called, because of course, why wouldn't you? Apparently the scammer finally got frustrated and hung up on her because she couldn't understand his accent.
I've run several PiHoles for several years, primarily on latest versions (up to v5; current is v6.4.x) – recently updating to v6 has been extremely frustrating [0], e.g: realizing that even when you tell the pi's/en0 ("internet") interface to use a specific DNS server (in GUI/network settings), it still uses the DNS-server recommended by your local DHCP server [1].
[0] I am aware that this is a joint-issue between RaspbianOS and Pi-Hole teams
[1] which requires TWO sudo nmcli which newbs have no business configuring – what happened to -simple- ?
----
If you ever want to consider how crazy DNS-capture is getting, realize that Firefox/&c are all dark-patterning the abilities to turn off "secure"-DNS. The latest Raspian/Pi-Hole defaults are terrifying... [2]
[2] another example: why doesn't v6 enable HTTPS localhost web-access, by default (like all previous versions?!)? Do the developers really expect us commoners to know how to generate localhost certificates – this is obviously behavior due to how the pihole useraccount behaves differently then the previously-root-blessed v5-behavior
----
Thankfully, I've kept a local copy of my favorite distro of Pihole v5, and it is readily-cloneable.
When I attempted to pass a --version tag during a freshinstall (requesting v5 from remote installer), it went ahead and installed latest v6 (so why even.?!).
This provides IMO all-around goodwill while still adhering to good release practices.
A UI option would make sense. That is what most users are comfortable with.
To make gatekeeper happy without paying a large amount of money and own Apple hardware (same thing).
macOS is slowly getting like Windows, where, on a fresh install you have to go through and turn off all sorts of unwanted software just to have a sane environment where you, the user, are actually controlling your computer.
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/48946680/how-to-avoid-th...
That's what we did for DB Browser for SQLite (sqlitebrowser.org), and it works well: https://sqlitebrowser.org/blog/signing-windows-executables-o...
SignPath also does stuff for commercial places too (https://signpath.io), but I have no idea of the pricing.
I can't remember how difficult it was to set up my initial Apple developer account (trauma related memory loss, perhaps) but it is dead simple to renew. Just pay the $99. I did it yesterday. Took about a minute.
That's the stated reason. The actual reason is that they are salivating at the sight of how much money the app store and play store are making. They just don't want to move too quickly for fear of customers revolting.
Apparently Apple disagrees, Apple decides. Typical users aren’t going to find their hidden 5 step process to enable non-blessed apps and obviously they know that. Gatekeeper is an appropriate name considering the user themselves are on the outside of the gate. It’s the culimination of everything Stallman and the FSF warned everyone about for decades. By its logic we should install police officers in our living rooms for safety.
This has more to do with putting up a scary dialog for normies than it does protecting anyone. A non-technical user isn't going to go bypass this in the terminal, they're going to run back to the App Store where Apple can collect that sweet 30% and analytics.
The author didn't mention Apple's contempt for backward compatibility. Apple like to regularly nuke their entire developer system from orbit. Try running an app developed 10 years ago on the latest version of macOS. It probably won't run.
Microsoft are much better at backward compatibility and they don't force you to join a developer program. But you get totally reamed every time you have to update your authenticode digital certificate for Windows. Just the digital certificate will cost you more than $99 per year. It is a total racket.
This is absolutely correct. Instead of maintaining any sort of ABI and API stability, Apple offloads a constant burden of maintenance updates across thousands of developers, just to keep existing apps from breaking every year with a new iOS version. This takes time which could be spent in more productive ways such as fixing bugs, adding features, or developing new apps. It seems like the wrong trade-off, since stability would offer huge, multiplicative benefits across the whole ecosystem. Apple does seem to want apps to die to mitigate the glut of shovelware in the app store, but there has to be a better way (human curation still seems like the only reliable approach for app surfacing and discovery.)
Most iOS apps are games, but in contrast to developing for other game platforms, iOS developers have to continuously update each game yearly simply to keep it working. (Not to mention Apple was happy to kill off 32-bit games on both iOS and macOS, and many games were never converted to 64-bit.) Compare to other handheld game platforms such as the Nintendo DS/DSi/3DS where games mostly kept working across major and minor hardware revisions along with dozens of firmware revisions from 2004-2020, or the Switch where games have generally worked from across Switch 1 and 2 from 2017 onward.
By comparison, Android is much worse. The Play Store kicks you off for not submitting updates much more quickly and the whole ecosystem is in a permanent state of simultaneous flux and obsolescence. Whatever deity help you if you let an Android project collect dust for a year or two… you’re gonna be fighting battles on multiple fronts getting everything up to date. Gradle conflicts, APIs getting deprecated without fully baked replacements, divergence in behavior between OS versions… it’s a real hoot.
Open source apps are all native.
Rosetta and its underlying tech enable 10,000s of games and applications to run so it's a tremendous loss overall, it doesn't sound like much will be left if this means x86 OSX games:
> "we will keep a subset of Rosetta functionality aimed at supporting older unmaintained gaming titles, that rely on Intel-based frameworks"
https://developer.apple.com/documentation/apple-silicon/abou...
To be fair, compared to the prices of Certum and other providers if you ever want to sign something for Windows, perhaps Apple isn't uniquely overpriced (they all seem to be that way): https://www.certum.eu/en/code-signing-certificates/
Looking more into the Windows side of things, I also found Azure Artifact Signing which is supposedly affordable at 8.54 EUR per month, but unfortunately they don't actually support individual users in the EU (only in US & Canada, meanwhile EU only gets support for organizations). I'd probably have to set up a SIA (equivalent of Ltd.) here first - it was in the plans for later, but this is a bit of a roadblock for using Azure too: https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/products/artifact-signing
My tone might have been frustrated, but I will absolutely say that the code signing industry needs to have a Let's Encrypt moment of some description - at least commoditize it like Azure Artifact Signing was trying to do, but also for individual developers, across all platforms! Sadly, that doesn't seem to be possible when the platforms are intentionally walled gardens. I don't hate the idea of code signing, though - if done right, it's a good idea, same as TLS for (many) websites.
Here's an eight year old Stack Overflow discussion of the issue:
> A guaranteed way to immediately and permanently get rid of the Microsoft SmartScreen warnings is to buy an "Extended Validation" (EV) code signing certificate from one of the Microsoft-approved certificate authorities (CA's), and to sign your app with that EV certificate.
Such an EV certificate will typically cost you somewhere between 300 and 700 USD per year (you better compare prices), and will only be issued to registered businesses. If you're a single developer, you must be a sole proprietor and have an active business license.
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/48946680/how-to-avoid-th...
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/apps/package-and-d...
The only option to avoid a SmartScreen prompt from day 1 on Windows is to distribute through Microsoft Store, end of story.
If you sign it yourself, via Azure or your own $200/year cert, you will get a SmartScreen prompt initially, but the prompt will stop appearing once the file hash has sufficient download history. There is no exact threshold, but it can take several weeks and hundreds of clean installs from a wide audience.
This is from https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/apps/package-and-d...
Digital certificates providers are basically checking your id (mostly automted) and multiplying 2 prime numbers together. Then charging you several hundred dollars. A 1 year Sectigo certificate EV with USB key is $431.99. Nice work if you can get it.
I wrote this back in 2008:
https://successfulsoftware.net/2008/02/27/the-great-digital-...
But it has got much worse since then.
[0]: https://ofek.dev/words/guides/2025-05-13-distributing-comman...
https://successfulsoftware.net/2018/11/16/how-to-notarize-yo...
https://successfulsoftware.net/2023/04/28/moving-from-altool...
I genuinely don't understand why so many developers are willing to compromise so much for a thin laptop.
I am the second most stubborn person I know in my friend group on this, and after only using a desktop for a couple years during the pandemic, I avoided having a mac laptop for the subsequent five years and it sucked. I finally caved after I realized the new M5 Macbook Air is actually likely to be faster for web browsing tasks and is somehow also (awkwardly?!) competitive at compiling code to the monster modern Xeon build I had just completed, and it doesn't even have a fan!
As far as I am concerned, it is over: Apple has won on everything except screen quality (I am sadly now addicted to OLED and I fundamentally disagree with the Apple position of not having a touch screen on a laptop, a stance that is only more emboldened now that I spend a lot of time with children).
Both of these are reportedly coming to the MBP this year (lately rumoured to be next year), although there's going to be a steep price to pay and rumours say it will still just have the MacBook's normal angular range so no good for drawing or iPad apps.
Apple is so far ahead of everyone it's sad but they're catching up and Apple is so unflinching on so many topics it handicaps them, we could be stuck with touchscreen Macs that aren't useful for iPad apps for many years, and later this decade ARM chips will start nipping at the heels of the Pro and Max chips while build/component quality is rapidly improving too.
Serious question - Is it really true that Windows 11 will run an untrusted .exe without a warning?
But also most malware delivery now doesn't trigger it because malware developers have gotten craftier. If you're unscrupulous, it's not a concern.
And yes, you can turn all of that off.
Free business idea: get an Apple developer account and then agree to sign code for other people in exchange for a small piece of their income. I'm surprised that doesn't exist yet (or does it?).
App certification doesn't solve that problem either.
Where do you have to show ID for that??
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_restrictions_on_energy_dri...
However, more relevant to the post, is that when you're ordering groceries online, you need to verify your age at checkout if you're buying stuff like alcohol (or energy drinks). It's trivial, and for a lot of people it uses the same authentication service that they already use to access their bank.
Edit: currently a voluntary but widespread scheme by retailers, proposed to be law. TIL
There'$ a rea$on that $o many people want to relea$e Apple app$. A $uperb Rea$on.
It's a really lucrative market. People like to have access to customers that are used to paying a lot. One of the reasons those customers want to pay more, is that walled garden that HN members hate so much, but millions of people have no issue with (whether or not that's a good thing, is not for me to ponder. It just is).
99 bucks is peanuts. It does give you access to the entire suite of Apple tools. Anyone interested in shipping serious software, is likely to far exceed that, in the non-Apple (or Apple hardware) tools that they use to develop the software. Heck, your keyboard probably cost more than that. I remember that we used to pay Microsoft over $4,000 a year for their developer program.
Here's what Apple says about it[0]. That's what I usually do. I think someone else has shared the command line method. If it's a developer tool, then it would probably have a difficult time passing Apple's app review process, anyway, and that will really jangle your cortisol pipes.
[0] https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/open-a-mac-app-from...
I think we're going to find out in a couple weeks, as Apple will be in court arguing over a reasonable commission to charge developers for using third party payments and their costs and developer subscription revenue are likely to come under a magnifying glass.
> millions of people have no issue with
I think that's a false dichotomy, consumers are not choosing Apple's developer policies and fees, and Apple has gone to great extents to keep consumers ignorant of their fees by banning mention of competing payment options and then burdening them with fees that ensure they can't be cheaper so the fees aren't obvious. This is not a choice consumers have made, it is a choice they have been deprived of.
If I had been positing it as a developer issue, then that would be true.
However, I was talking about the customer experience, not the developer one. There's no question at all. People pay a premium, and have no issues with the walled garden.
Just because I don't like something, doesn't mean that everyone else shouldn't like it, either. I may not be wrong in my rancor, and they might not be wrong in their acceptance.
One thing that customers are disliking, though, is the buggy and overcomplicated mess that Apple operating systems have become. I am hoping that they do another across-the-board "Snow Leopard" release. From what I hear, that's likely. It might end up making the developer experience a bit more frustrating, though, as they may be demanding more from us.
I've been shipping Apple-based software since 1986, and have found myself screaming with rage at them, many times, in those 40 years; but I never stopped developing for the platform. I guess I'm a walking exemplar of The Stockholm Syndrome.
You can't even conclude that since lots of customers are actually suing them for excessive fees, Apple already lost that battle in the UK and are facing the return of billions in IAP fees, they are facing another in NL for nearly €800 million where they are certain to lose because they were ordered to allow third party payments and ignored the court, they are facing a class action in the US that actually predates their injunction ordering them to allow third party payments and their contempt for disobeying.
I don't think people will "pay the premium" when Apple has to allow apps like YouTube to offer a $19/month plan alongside a $25/month plan for exactly the same thing. They have fought this entire decade to prevent that choice and argued it will cost them billions.
You have my apologies.
Have a great day!
What users want to install on their own computer is none of apple's business though.
Annoying, but if you’re delivering your app to semi-technical users, not really a problem.
I agree that Apple is dumb of course.
And also, software that is downloaded from itch.io app does not require notarization.
2. The expected income is way less than the developer fee, much less the expensive hardware required.
If it is good for the end-user, it is usually also good for the ecosystem a a whole, trust is valuable.
But ffs, they are rich enough to make this a lot less painful and hostile for developers.
And this is not a new thing, I used to develop games for iOS, from the very beginning, and while the process somewhat simplified over time, it was a huge cortisol inducing process, not to mention the regular forced OS+SDK updates where the procedures changes almost every time and could fail in not-so-evident ways.
The bad UX is really what irks me. Enough that I may entirely opt-out of the Apple ecosystem forever, and I don't think I am the only one feeling that way.
I'm so happy I moved to KDE which has options for everything. It was a breath of fresh air when I moved and it still is, every day.
On two occasions I've been completely dumbstruck when the software I was using was deleted out from under me. I'm not a fan of the overuse of "gaslight", but it sure felt like that when I had to restart Docker and the OS was like "what do you mean, Docker? You've never had Docker installed! What are you talking about? Are you feeling ok?"
I suspect what triggered it was the fact that the files had journeyed through many filesystems in their time - HFS, ext4, NTFS, APFS - and they probably picked up some unholy combination of impossible attributes.
I thought it was pretty egregious to have Apple helpfully try to delete important PDFs that I've been lugging around for years.
The Docker thing happened as described in my linked post. It happened with something else too, but again I can't remember. I wasn't planning on doing a post mortem so I guess I let the details slip!
In any case, I do like most of the OS' ways of doing things, including security. But it can be overzealous.
P.S. I'm not crazy! I'm not crazy!!!
At least I don't think they got to it, they only mention signing but not notarization.
laughs in Bundesdruckerei