Do teachers need advanced degrees?
19 points
2 days ago
| 14 comments
| cremieux.xyz
| HN
shalmanese
11 minutes ago
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FYI: the author of this piece is the eugenicist Cremieux who was responsible for using hacked data to attack Zohran Mamdani for checking Black and Asian on his college application.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_Lasker

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next_xibalba
4 minutes ago
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What do they call this type of argument, again? Ad hominem?
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rao-v
20 minutes ago
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My understanding is that, these days, a lot of advanced degrees held by teachers are in Education, not say Math or History.

I’d love to see this data recut by degree type.

Edit - wow we’re talking about 50-70% of the masters being in Education, Special Education or Admin fields. (Page 14: https://mhec.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/10/202510-MHEC-Grad...)

This data is basically telling us nothing about the value of a topical masters degree.

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CivBase
1 minute ago
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My wife is a teacher. She wanted to teach history, so she had to get a history degree with a specialization in education. But there were no jobs available, so she accepted a conditional as a special education teacher. That's what drove her to get a master's degree in special ed.

While doing teaching special ed she developed a fondness for teaching math. But she isn't allowed to take on a general ed math class because she doesn't have a "math endorsement" - which would require her to go back to school again for basically another advanced degree in math. And she can't get a general ed job in history because it's too competitive and her years of experience makes her too expensive compared to fresh blood.

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NiloCK
5 minutes ago
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I'd say that there is no such statistically significant data.

Practically nobody teaching K-12 has subject-matter masters degrees. It's just not part of the career trajectory. As unusual as a nurse having an M.A. in history or something. Yes, would occur on the margins of people changing course in life, but not the mainline.

Specifically, the question here is about the efficacy of pay-scale bumps for Masters degrees in education. To your point (and my counter-point), teachers get a substantial pay bump* if they hold a M.Ed, but no bump if they hold a masters in their teachable areas.

For persons who can afford it in the moment, taking a one year or two or three year part-time M.Ed. after getting a few years teaching experience (an entrance requirement in most M.Ed. programs) can pay for itself over the next 2-5 years, then is all surplus for the rest of the career.

* - all of the varies a bit by jurisdiction but I think this is "the general case".

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class3shock
54 minutes ago
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It's funny that this is a question when every college STEM class is taught by people who have degrees that have absolutely nothing to do with being able to teach effectively.
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m463
21 minutes ago
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I think a lot of teaching jobs are like that.

If you were good at teaching STEM, I think you could probably work nearby in a STEM job for more money.

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seangrogg
12 minutes ago
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This does suppose there are good jobs in the area, which can be a bit hit or miss especially out in the sticks. Not to say one couldn't move, but moving isn't in the cards for everyone.
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m348e912
2 days ago
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Teaching salaries start at $48,112 on average. If schools want advanced degrees the industry needs to pay more, and that's beyond whatever adjustment the provide for holding an advanced degree.
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goosejuice
21 minutes ago
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All things considered, it's much better than it's made out to be.

Teaching is pretty stable, offers pensions, unionized, yearly adjusted for CPI, opportunities to increase pay schedule + extra pay with extra curriculars / duties, lots of time off, good hours.

Don't get me wrong. There are issues and it does depend on the district (US).

Now the aides..

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sampli
1 hour ago
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Well, the way you get instant raises in the public school system is by completing more advanced degrees
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lmm
1 hour ago
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They're already paid better than adjunct professors or grad students which is the normal career path for people with advanced degrees.
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blinkbat
2 days ago
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this. there's almost no fiscal incentive to even BE a teacher, let alone a well-educated one.
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EtienneDeLyon
1 hour ago
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When you overpay teachers, people who hate teaching, and hate being teachers, will become teachers for the money.

Is a good idea to select the people who hate teaching to become teachers?

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class3shock
58 minutes ago
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When you underpay teachers, people who hate teaching, and hate being teachers, will become teachers because all the people that had better options did something else.
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platevoltage
47 seconds ago
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You made an assertion that is based in fantasy, and then asked a question based on this silly assertion. Just wow.
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mikeocool
1 hour ago
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Yeah, why would we pay top dollar for top talent and then hold that talent to high standards? That certainly doesn’t work in any other profession.
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OccamsMirror
1 hour ago
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When you overpay CEOs, people who hate leading, and hate being CEOs, will become CEOs for the money.

Is a good idea to select the people who hate leading to become CEOs?

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codegrappler
32 minutes ago
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We call this new movement “involuntary CEO”. Bob you’re now it.
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AndrewKemendo
33 minutes ago
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You say that as though it’s an option

CEO is selected by the investors for whoever will side with the investors 100% of the time over every other group including employees

What you suggest would subvert this and so it won’t and can’t happen

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seangrogg
4 minutes ago
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This was far more of an option in the 1980s and earlier; a CEO being compensated 20-30x a line employee was pretty standard around then; now it's closer to 250-300x. I think there's more optionality than we may assume, we've just left the structural incentives that drive that difference in place.
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jimmygrapes
1 hour ago
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Yes
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bloqs
58 minutes ago
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This is true of every single job.

Teachers are high in big five trait agreeableness which means they typically don't negotiate on their own behalf

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choilive
1 hour ago
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Absolutely dumb take. There are plenty of very bright and talented people that would have made excellent teachers but chose different career paths because - surprise surprise - the pay is better.
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decafninja
17 minutes ago
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A friend who came from a wealthy family went to an Ivy League teaching school. While she was there, her family went bankrupt and she had to take on student loans. Fast forward to today, she regrets going there, saying a cheap state school would have been just as effective for her career.
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Atotalnoob
6 minutes ago
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You aren’t really paying Ivy League prices for the quality of the classes, but more the quality of the connections and reputation.
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djoldman
10 minutes ago
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> Have you never met a bad doctor? A shoddy lawyer? A barista with a PhD?

I presume the implication is that bad doctors and shoddy lawyers exist and just because they have advanced degrees doesn't make them good at what they do. This seems reasonable.

BUT, I find it fascinating that people who aren't doctors or medical experts think they can spot a "bad" doctor or people who aren't lawyers or experts in law think they can spot a "shoddy" lawyer.

A good doctor/lawyer makes good decisions and executes beneficial actions given the facts surrounding a situation. It's pretty hard to judge whether those decisions and actions are good or bad if one isn't an expert.

That's a huge motivating factor for professional licenses.

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yepyoukno
2 days ago
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Those who produce the materials teachers teach should have advanced degrees. Teachers should have degrees demonstrating their competence in accessing and relating to such knowledge.
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erelong
1 hour ago
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Shouldn't need any degrees tbh, only the ability to do their job
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gucci-on-fleek
49 minutes ago
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It depends on the grade though: no degree would probably be fine for a kindergarten teacher, but I'd be a little concerned if a high school math/science teacher had zero post-secondary experience, especially if this were at a school where most students are planning on attending university.
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Theodores
24 minutes ago
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My mother was one of those teachers that had questionable qualifications. This was a problem from time to time as different government edicts and local authority changes made teachers effectively reapply for their jobs.

Eventually she did get a degree, albeit with my father writing up most of the assignments, however, I was underwhelmed by this. I felt that it was quite an indulgence for just a piece of paper.

Subject matter does matter. My mother was teaching art which might as well have been craft. What she brought to the class was experience, experience in crafts and experience existing as a money-making artist. She also knew a few people.

Few in academia could match her skill set and there were no complaints. It didn't matter that she was practically illiterate when it came to writing.

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johngossman
1 hour ago
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Fwiw, in 1900 my grandfather taught school in Washington State. He was 16 years old.

I don't know how good he was, just saying it wasn't so long ago.

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CivBase
25 minutes ago
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No job "needs advanced degrees". They need experience.

If you want to get your foot in the door in a competitive market, degrees help. They offer some substitute for experience. But it's ridiculous to require them.

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flopsamjetsam
12 minutes ago
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Do you mean for a teaching job, or just any job? Certainly in fields like biology, you can only be taken seriously by others in the field by having an advanced degree (which is really only the beginning).

In computing, in the commercial field, you can of course get by with no degree.

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phil21
17 minutes ago
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imagetic
30 minutes ago
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No.
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1attice
20 minutes ago
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Such a ridiculous framing. Of course a teacher needs to provably know their subject, along with a solid practicum and a dollop of teaching theory, because, as with teaching oneself piano, bad teaching habits get engrained easily.

That said, some subjects are more difficult than others to teach, and thus require better education.

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globalnode
1 hour ago
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some studies even saying experience was irrelevant along with advanced degrees. so what do teachers need? big personalities?
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cyanydeez
1 hour ago
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they need money, in america.
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